Pushing the envelope — Day 5

Last week we learned that the White House issued another one of its infamous “signing statements,” this time asserting the power to open postal mail without a warrant or court approval. There hasn’t been too much response on the Hill just yet — though hearings hardly seem out of the question — but I was pleased to see, via Dan Froomkin, that editorial boards are picking up on the story and keeping the controversy alive.

Some are concerned about the mail issue, others about signing statements generally, and some both.

The Los Angeles Times: “The Bush administration seems determined to raise the specter of surveillance over every means of communication within the United States. Not content to monitor selected phone calls and e-mails in secret, it recently hinted that letters and packages may be opened without a search warrant too…. [I]t’s hard not to be suspicious of the president’s position on mail privacy, given the administration’s record on the issue of domestic surveillance. In the name of the ‘war on terror,’ it has taken an unusually expansive view of government power and a correspondingly restrictive view of individual privacy rights. It also has sought to redefine what constitutes a ‘reasonable’ search, and has often done so unilaterally and in secret.”

The San Francisco Chronicle: “In yet another power grab that whittles away our rights without a plausible justification, President Bush has given the government expanded authority to read our mail…. ‘Just trust us,’ seems to be the operative phrase of this administration. However, history has shown the potential for government abuses in the absence of strong mail-privacy laws. Bush continues to roll back the clock — and the Constitution — with his signing statements.”

The Baltimore Sun: “The new Democratic-led Congress, still moving into offices and setting up Web sites, should move quickly to curb this executive overreach before Americans have no privacy from their government left at all.”

The Raleigh News and Observer: “Bush’s repeated resorting to the statements mocks the law-making process and stokes a paralyzing partisanship that has gripped Washington.”

The Miami Herald: “The scope of the president’s use of signing statements is breathtaking and scary. With a sweep of his pen, the president can intrude into citizens’ private affairs, hide financial bungling by the government, negate months of hard work by Congress and commit or cover up a multitude of sins and wrongdoing. Congress has a solemn duty to, at minimum, conduct open hearings on the use of signing statements and demand a full accounting from the president.”

The Winston-Salem (N.C.) Journal: “Despite his party’s defeat in November, President Bush persists in his disregard for the constitutional right to privacy that every American enjoys…. Law-abiding Americans need protection from the use of the government’s immense investigative powers. That protection comes in the form of a judge and a search warrant. Bush has no right to read our mail without a warrant, no matter what he says in a signing statement.”

The Virginian-Pilot: “Among many other dubious assertions, the president has said he’s not subject to whistle-blower laws, affirmative action requirements, provisions of the Patriot Act, regulations about diverting money to secret operations, bars to the use of torture. That may sound imperious — or even imperial — in a system that depends on checks and balances to prevent abuses. But it is of a piece with the notion of a ‘unitary executive,’ a fashionable neoconservative theory that the presidency has been emasculated by an overreaching Congress and judiciary and must be restored to its proper glory.”

The Register-Guard of Eugene, Ore.: “In other times, a president’s decision to cast aside the Fourth Amendment and usurp the lawmaking powers of Congress would make a big splash. But President Bush’s view of executive authority is so expansive that it has become almost routine to find that he has extended his reach into another corner of American life and another clause of the Constitution. When Bush claimed for his administration the right to read people’s mail without first obtaining a warrant, there was little news coverage and scarcely a peep of protest from Congress.”

The Decatur (Ala.) Daily: “Signing statements look like a way to sneak around congressional intent without giving Congress the opportunity to override a veto. If Mr. Bush disagrees with legislation, he should veto it. A veto is more upfront and honest than a signing statement.”

And Ethel Channon, an editor at the Texarkana Gazette, writes that if Bush “really wants us to trust him on this mail deal, he . . . should take whatever action is incumbent on the person who ordinarily would be opening it. If he opens a credit card bill, he should pay it, and not just the minimum payment either.”

The Charlottesville (Va.) Daily Progress: “It’s wrong to open private mail without a search warrant. It’s wrong to permit such a wrong via an undemocratic maneuver.”

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: “Sir, we’re running out of ways to converse without someone listening in or looking over our shoulders. With that concern in mind, we hope you will follow the letter of the law, not bend the law to follow letters.”

I have to say, it’s encouraging to see editorial boards notice the problem with White House signing statements. I was afraid they weren’t paying attention.

Bush is a traitor. This is the epitomy of un-American behavior.

  • God forbid there’s an actual ticking bomb inside some package sent to one of you guys — hopefully they will wait to get a warrant first.

  • Thanks CB.

    Where’s the NYT and WaPo on this? Is their absence from the list significant I wonder.

    It would be good to find a signing statement that it is provable that Bush has acted upon in contradiction to the law as passed. Then a good test case could be adjudicated.

  • I second Ms. Channon’s idea: You open it, you handle it.

    Although knowing the Shrub he’d fill out all the credit card offers and max them out to help pay for the war in Iraq.

  • There are plenty of laws that allow the government to legally open suspicious packages. Isn’t it our stupid Republican friends that are alway saying there are plenty of laws already on the books for stuff like gun control and hate crimes?

    I have to admit that although I would hate for any President to have these kinds of unconsitutional powers, the aspect of Bush having them is especially nauseating since he is such a small small man.

  • Thomas, wake-up!!!!!!!!!!!

    “When you lose your middle class, you lose your democracy.” — PBS advertisement

    When you lose your rights (like speech, privacy, assembly, etc.), you lose your freedom—and the terrorists win!

  • Old fashioned bombs still tick. Either way, I’m sure you would be content to wait for a judge to issue a warrant before SWAT opens the next one in your home. Keep it up, people. The Constitution won’t mean ANYTHING if we are all dead!

  • That’s Ok, Thomas, #5. I guess I shouldn’t blame you. It’s just hard for a liberal like me to take any personal responsibilty for my own problems. (It’s a joke lefites- laugh a little)

    Look, here’s the deal with the “Ticking Time Bomb” scenario that the right wing uses as an excuse to shred the constitution…

    If there really ever were a ticking time bomb- the feds would go ahead and open the mail, and it would be legal. That’s the way the law is written now. Bush’s BS supposedly just lets him open any mail he wants, ticking time bomb or not.

    And when it comes to torturing people- There has yet to be a ticking time bomb scenario. People who torture or order tortue do it for psycho-sexual thrills and the pleasure of domination, not to protect or save anyone. A civilized nation certain does not allow torture in its laws.

    If there’s ever a case where an agent of the US can save lives by punching a guy in the face a few times to get him to talk, he should do it, but then face the consquences for his actions in court. We should never officially sanction that Bullshit or even wink at it like Bush does. HELLO! WE’RE AMERICANS. We’re BETTER than that. Remember?

  • Um…Tommie,

    Ticking Bomb = “spoof ploy.” It’s Bugs Bunny era thinking. Your pre-11/7 slip is showing.

    And opening my mail will just get the “watchers” a glimpse of my new letterhead: Bush and Cheney wearing “Gitmo Orange….”

  • “Thomas”‘s post are rendolent of a particularly persistent troll from Kevin Drum’s site who originally went by the handle “Charlie” (among many others). What gives?

  • We need to push one of these to the Supreme Court. My legally uninformed opinion is that ‘signing statements’ are no more than presidential opinions at best and statements of intent not to comply with the law at worst. I would expect that a law, once signed by the president, is THE LAW and the signing statement is merely an executive whine.

    If, in fact, the executive has actually ignored and broken a law that he has signed I would expect him to be subject to whatever penalties are applicable. If such case exists it is the responsibility of Justice Department to prosecute. If Justice fails to prosecute then a legal action needs to be bought by the citizenry. Move On? ACLU?

    Bring the action. I’ll donate.

  • First, how do you KNOW that there has yet to be a ticking time bomb scenario where torture was secretly and successfully used? I find it amazing that your side won’t even CONSIDER the possibility of torture warrants when every other kind of warrant is sacred to you (above).

  • Old fashioned bombs still tick. -Thomas

    Is that a bomb made from blended whiskey, sugar, bitters, lemon, cherry and orange?

    Seriously, though. Bombs don’t tick. Wake up.

  • Give me liberty or give me death

    has been updated to

    Take my liberties, just keep me safe

    Really makes me proud of the stuff we are made of!

  • I know Carpetbagger regulars know better than to buy into foolish, nonsensical arguments from those who don’t understand what they’re talking about, but I addressed the “ticking bomb” scenario in my
    original post
    on this subject.

    Under existing law, before the signing statement, the Postal Service is already empowered to block delivery of suspicious mail. If law enforcement officials have reason to believe a piece of mail is dangerous, they don’t need to wait for a warrant.

    It’s troubling that some are still confused about the nature of this debate, but this is about presidential power and unchecked authority — not about security.

    If a Bush backer wants to defend a power grab, fine, make the argument. But misleading scare tactics are demagoguery, nothing more.

  • I find it amazing that your side won’t even CONSIDER the possibility of torture warrants when every other kind of warrant is sacred to you (above).

    OK Now you’re just fucking with us. Torture is wrong, barbaric and totally unconstituional. Ever heard the phrase “cruel and unusual punishment?” C’mon. America is American because of our Constitution. It’s a fact. Look it up.

    I’ve come to the conclusion you don’t really believe any of the shit you’re typing. You’re just trolling here to get a rise out of anyone. Good one. You’re a funny guy.

  • Carpetbagger:

    Which is why the signing statement was clear about retaining ALL such prior power. Sorry I was not around to point the obvious out on your original post.

  • Hey Thomas, you’re due back at the asylum. The article you referenced proving that “bombs tick” is about a hoax.

    People like you make the case that right wingers are just stupid people who will say anything to prove their pet theories.

    Get help.

  • At least rege got it right at the end of that original post (no reason to be “sad” about the government doing its job protecting the lives of citizens though):

    “Congress passed a trade act in 2002, 107 H.R. 3009, that expanded the Custom Service’s ability to open international mail. Here’s the beginning of Section 344:

    (1) In general.–For purposes of ensuring compliance with the Customs laws of the United States and other laws enforced by the Customs Service, including the provisions of law described in paragraph (2), a Customs officer may, subject to the provisions of this section, stop and search at the border, without a search warrant, mail of domestic origin transmitted for export by the United States Postal Service and foreign mail transiting the United States that is being imported or exported by the United States Postal Service.”

    If you want to know what “exigent circumstances” could be, let me know.

  • Hey Racerx, the article I referenced proved that a Canadian bomb squad responded to a possible “ticking“ bomb nonetheless. Are you saying I could not send you an actual ticking bomb if you gave me your address?

  • Art K – That’s a spot-on assessment. The president does not have editorial privileges on laws passed by Congress. The signing statements are in essence a line-item veto that the exective branch does not have proscribed in its constitutional powers, Congress has not granted the president those powers and the Supreme Court has denied those powers to the executive. Bush’s signing statements are another example of his a la carte attitude toward reality. He accepts what he likes and denies the reality that doesn’t agree with him.

  • God forbid there’s an actual ticking bomb inside some package sent to one of you guys — hopefully they will wait to get a warrant first.

    Comment by Thomas

    Sir, respectfully I’ll take that chance. The civil rights being shredded have survived much worse that the ‘brown bogey men’ you are so scared of. Please don’t be so frightened that you hand over the God given inalienable rights to the current (and temporary) resident of our white house.

  • To the stupidest the spoils.
    Talk about propitious a turn of events for our most stupid preznit. The most imbecilistic pol, turned gubnor, the moron was even further turned into a preznit. Not only that but this piece of WH shit is now the most powerful preznit in history .. go figure .. one would have thunk that a great conniver like nixon had a better chance to bamboozle the nation but w did it.
    Of course the $money$ behind w is the real enabler here but still the feat of putting to sleep the whole country is still nothing to sneeze at .. as we speak -now admitting failure to install a true dictatorship-like asshole in the WH- our corporations’ trillions of dollars are already being used in trying to come up with a bigger sleeping pill for the nation next time … coming to a drugstore near you …

    The move was/is brilliant. First you drug the ones that can ‘talk’ the loudest and ruin the plan and I present the kids -through their parents’ money- and the old, the other easy target .. keep them all sedated and voila a few $trillions$ more for the corporations to share .. and to think that they still prosecute a killer for murdering a few citizens …these corpo guys really raised the bar …

  • I imagine that on the right wing blogs Thomas goes to that he is completely ignored because his messages are the same mindless drivel everyone else is spouting there. But here he actually gets responses about his tripe.

  • Two points:

    #1. I don’t see how signing statements are legal or enforceable, no matter what Bush writes. It is the Congress with the power to pass legislation. Bush is bluffing and I am waiting for someone to call him on it. I’m glad the newspapers are, and I am sure the courts will soon. This should not even have to be litigated; what he is trying to do is treasonous. He has probably been opening mail already, and he is trying to cover his dirty a….

    #2. Who is Thomas and what is he doing here? I consider this to be a forum for serious comment, not cliches. I take a little vacation, come back to some whacko monoploizing the board. Stop answering him and he will probably go away soon enough.

  • Seriously, though. Bombs don’t tick. Wake up. -myself

    doubtful:

    They do in Canada at least: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/toronto/story.html?id=8940b715-7e14-4cb6-a9ee-0d6b319222ca
    -Trollmas

    First line of the linked article:

    It turned out to be a fake…

    In other words, and hopefully Thomas’ tiny mind can comprehend this: IT WAS NOT A BOMB!

    Basically what they had was a huge waste of money because something ticked and everyone jumped to a conclusion. So let me reiterate: bombs do not tick.

  • doubtful:

    As I asked before, are you saying if I had your address I could not physically send you a ticking bomb? I thought this was the “Reality-Based” portion of the Internet?

  • Tom:

    Feel free to move to some other country and risk their lives then, sir.

    Nope. My family has been in America since 1766. I am not going anywhere. One wonders if you were around in 1776 whether you would be for or against independance from England?

  • WOW, a troll!

    Thomas, can you explain to me why so many right wingers are scared silly of the “What if” scenario.

    Freedom has always required a certain amount of risk – it ain’t free.

    The cold war was fought and won so that an American President could create the KGB in United States?

    The right wing is very inconsistent. You are continually playing the “Democracy Card” without any self awareness of what Bush’s power grab means for our form of government and the rule of law.

  • The right wing is very inconsistent. You are continually playing the “Democracy Card” without any self awareness of what Bush’s power grab means for our form of government and the rule of law.

    Comment by bcinaz

    God, that is so true. You package so much wisdom in just a few words. Bravo!

  • As I asked before, are you saying if I had your address I could not physically send you a ticking bomb? I thought this was the “Reality-Based” portion of the Internet? -Thomas

    Okay, you’ve convinced me. I’m as paranoid as you, now. So much so that I construed your reply as a threat and have notified the authorities that you threatened to send me a bomb.

    See what happens when your absurdity is extrapolated? No, you don’t because you’re wearing the willing blinders of ignorance.

  • Tom:

    I probably would have had more occasion to review Romans 13 more than I have up til now.

    bcinaz:

    My answer is I don’t have the first damn clue. Maybe they just forgot to take their medication. And maybe they don’t have any friends. I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the posting habits of right-wing trolls. What I do know is that the Constitution is no good to Americans if we all all dead. Now are these really the questions you want me to answer? Power grabs and KGB? Please tell me you’ve got something more, bcinaz. Please tell me there’s an ace up your sleeve. These are American lives we talking about here. Please tell me their defender hasn’t pinned their hopes to a a search warrant.

    Now, do you have any other questions for me?

  • Sorry, I’m having computer problems which make it look like my posts didn’t go through. That’s why I posted #45 twice.

  • My answer is I don’t have the first damn clue. Maybe they just forgot to take their medication. And maybe they don’t have any friends. I’m an educated man, but I’m afraid I can’t speak intelligently about the posting habits of right-wing trolls. What I do know is that the Constitution is no good to Americans if we all all dead. Now are these really the questions you want me to answer? Power grabs and KGB? Please tell me you’ve got something more, bcinaz. Please tell me there’s an ace up your sleeve. These are American lives we talking about here. Please tell me their defender hasn’t pinned their hopes to a a search warrant.

    Now, do you have any other questions for me?
    Comment by Thomas

    Sure. Why steal scripted lines from a movie to make your point? America and the Constitution will survive as long as we have patriotic Americans willing to protect their civil rights from temporary residents of our political system. Politicians are temporary – the constitution is permanent. Mr bush is not worthy of your worship.

  • It’s called “fair use”, Tom. Also, I have no king but Jesus.

    Comment by Thomas

    Fair enough, sir.

  • I’m afraid that, under the tender ministrations of nincompoops such as Thomas and others, The Carpetbagger Report may become typical of other political blogs, blogs which I no longer look at: A lot of time slogging through Thomas-generated shit in order to find what used to be gems of reason and writing in response to CB’s proffered topics.

    Thomas has nothing constructive to offer. “Is too, is not” is sandbox, not discussion. Ignore him or prevent him. I don’t care which.

  • Thomas,

    What I do know is that the Constitution is no good to Americans if we all all dead.

    Yet, when this country truly faced an threat to our very existence, we still had intact protections to our civil liberties. I fail to see how Al Qaeda poses as big a threat to our existence as the USSR did from the 1950s up through the 1980s.

    “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” Benjamin Franklin

    You, sir, would have us forsake Liberty to purchase safety from a minor threat. Clearly you are ruled by fear.

  • Hey, Andy; what does John Edwards think of this?
    –Mark

    Good to see I’m not the only one who noticed the Edwards spammer.

    The guy’s not helping his candidate any, that’s for sure.

  • Unfortunately, the fight against terrorism and terrorists in the US is not new. Briefings on this were routine while I was in the DOD in the early 80’s. What’s new is our current President’s view that he must strip our civil liberties and wrap this un-Americanism in the flag.

    Viewed as a whole, our current President’s war on terror is a stunningly unsuccessful effort to combat terrorism and an unprecedented setback compared to Bush 1 and Clinton’s successes in this fight. We will have a hard time climbing out of the hole dug by W, but progress can be made if Congress will trust the judgment of the American people and push back against further losing decisions by this President.

  • Ed Stephan is correct. Quit responding. He is wasting time and space. Stop talking to him; he is not a seeker of truth, he probably does not have a job or a life ,and he is enjoying your anger.

  • I’m not sure what point Thomas intended to make with his reference to my earlier post which can be read here.
    The law as of 2002 does allow custom officials to open mail crossing our boarders in either direction without a warrant. I think it is a bad law, but it is the law. The law still requires a warrant to open domestic first class mail. Now BushCo was able to get the first law passed by Congress while the hysteria caused by 9/11 was still fresh. If BushCo believed that there was also a need to relax the requirement on the search of domestic first class mail why didn’t he go to Congress at that time and ask for the ability? If a solid case could be made on the basis of “do this or will all die”, then I’m sure he could have gotten Congress to act.

    I leave you with a question. What can you put in a first class letter which would threaten our very existence?

  • C# 58: He is not a seeker of truth, he probably does not have a job or a life ,and he is enjoying your anger.

    Agreed, or is perhaps just extremely proud to show off his willful ignorance on a daily basis.

  • ***What can you put in a first class letter which would threaten our very existence?***
    ———————————————rege

    Would a set of 8-by-10 glossies of Bush and Abramoff at a Motel Six—in bed together—in a series of very compromising positions—do for starters? I imagine a lot of people would laugh themselves to death, and several of the Reichsters would fall on their “Swords of God….”

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