Fleischer rebuts Libby (but Dickerson rebuts Fleischer)

Scooter Libby told a grand jury that he first learned about Valerie Plame on July 10, 2003, during a chat with NBC’s Tim Russert. Ari Fleischer yesterday made it quite clear that Libby was lying.

Ari Fleischer may turn out to be a stronger — and more credible — witness than he was a White House press secretary.

During several hours on the witness stand in the I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby Jr. perjury and obstruction trial Monday, President Bush’s former chief spokesman was cool, unruffled, chatty and at times combative — especially when he underwent hostile cross-examination from one of Libby’s lawyers. But he stuck to his story and, in the process, delivered what may have been the most damaging testimony yet against Vice President Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff.

Fleischer described with damning new details a lunch he had with Libby in the White House mess on July 7, 2003, just as the controversy over the president’s State of the Union claim that Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Africa was spreading into a major Washington firestorm.

During that lunch, Fleischer said, Libby was anxious to rebut criticism by former ambassador Joseph Wilson…. As Fleischer related the story to the jury, Libby told him: “The vice president did not send Mr. Wilson. Ambassador Wilson was sent by his wife. She works for the CIA.” Libby then told him which part of the CIA employed her. “He said his wife works at the Counter-Proliferation Division. I think he told me her name,” Fleischer testified. Libby added: “This is hush-hush, this is on the Q.T. Not very many people know about this.”

As Fleischer explained it, the news about Wilson’s wife was new to him, and he took it to mean that Libby was passing on some “nugget” of interesting news. In turn, the then-White House press secretary passed along the information to NBC correspondent David Gregory and then-Time magazine correspondent John Dickerson. (It was this leaking that led Fleischer to think he may have done something wrong, which led him to get an immunity agreement before testifying.)

The only catch to this is that Dickerson has a very different story.

Dickerson, now at Slate, was in the courtroom, covering the trial for the magazine. His version of events is different.

I wanted to raise my hand and ask, “Your Honor, may I approach the bench?”

I was at the Scooter Libby trial to cover it, and all of a sudden, I found myself in the middle of the case. In his testimony today, former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer told the courtroom—which included me—that when I was a White House correspondent for Time magazine, he had told me that Joe Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA.

He did? […] I have a different memory. My recollection is that during a presidential trip to Africa in July 2003, Ari and another senior administration official had given me only hints. They told me to go inquire about who sent Wilson to Niger. As far as I can remember — and I am pretty sure I would remember it — neither of them ever told me that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA. In a piece I wrote about a year ago, I figured that the very reason I’d never been subpoenaed in the case or questioned by any lawyers was that I’d been given only vague guidance and not the good stuff.

It’s not entirely clear why Fleischer would get this part of the story wrong, or whether he would have any motivation for making this up.

Nevertheless, the jury has now heard from five witnesses who have contradicted Libby’s version of events.

Former New York Times reporter Judy Miller is slated to take the stand today. The fun continues.

I would be VERY interested in hearing Mr. Gregory’s and Ms. Limpert’s recollections of how the July 11 run-in with Ari came down–do they remember Ari telling them (and Dickerson) Plame’s name and relation to Wilson, or did he instead point them all in the direction of investigating who allegedly sent Wilson.

Man, I could only hope that Ari perjured himself on the stand.

  • I’m not so quick to write off Ari’s self-interest and possible perjury; as annoying as Dickerson has been sometimes, it takes a lot for me to say that he’s less trustworthy than someone who’s known as a professional liar and cover-up artist.

    Also, with everyone piling onto Libby, doesn’t that look a little like it lets the rest of the Administration off the hook?

    It’s not like these guys have run the “few bad apples” defense before when it was really a whole fucking rotten orchard, is it?

  • I’m hearing that the defense will use Ari’s testimony when Russert comes to the stand…to verify that Russert had learned of the info from Gregory and further support their idea that “all of the reporters knew” before Libby started leaking…

  • The whole GOP barrel is rotten. How could it be otherwise, being brought to us by the Bush Crime Family. I’m enjoying the show being put on by Patrick Fitzgerald. Actually, that’s my one gripe: there isn’t a TeeVee show, not even tapes on the radio. But it is fun pcking up the gleanings of journalists doing their jobs.

    Then there are these pesky points. Everyone seems willing to admit that Libby (and others) lied to federal prosecutors. Wasn’t that what we sent Martha Stewart to the slam for? And lying under oath … wasn’t that why we spent $70,000,000 and a two-year impeachment procedure and our previous respect for the presidency during the Clinton Blowjob Affair? Just askin’; I gave up hope long ago.

  • So, what next? Does the defense subpoena Dickerson to undercut Fleischer and cast doubt on when Libby knew about Plame, thus bolstering his own case?

    Or is this a matter of Dickerson having to maintain his story in order not to be yet another media person with questionable credibility?

    I think the cumulative effect of witness after witness testifying that Libby was the one telling reporters – and even those in the administration – who Plame was, will outweigh the discrepancies of a Dickerson. I have to think Fitzgerald is aware of these things, and believes he has enough solid evidence to convict.

  • Or it is hubris for Dickerson not to consider that his own attention may have wandered — tired, overworked, starving, irritable, as he described himself? Fleischer said the first couple times he tried to pass on the info, the press reacted with a large “zzzz.”

  • I can only echo Ed Stephen (#5) ~ this administration appears to be a slime pit of lies, deceit and obfuscation that is unparalleled in American history. My only question is where is the press in all of this? Aside from MSNBC and a few comics (Stewart, Colbert, Maher) the press is going along with the Bushies like everything is fine. Clinton’s facial got major headlines everyday. The Bush administration is putting partisan politics and personal egos ahead of the national interest and the press is parroting the abusers. They are reporting the facts but not what’s happening.

    Virtually ALL of the main-stream press and media think that whatever the Administration says is news but not the fact that they are clearly and provably lying.

  • Let’s not forget, Dickerson’s “testimony” was not under oath, he might sing a different tune once they subpoena him if he doesn’t stop writing about it.

    Oh ya, and doesn’t Ari have immunity, so if that can’t prove he lied or stretched the truth, he’s covered.

    It sure is fun to watch Republican’s eat their own.

  • I really don’t see too much difference between Fleischer’s and Dickerson’s memories of the event. Even Dickerson points to “hints” about Plame’s identity. Whether or not the actual name or other extraneous information came out during that conversation is rather irrelevant (For example, I can say “Mr. Wilson’s wife”, and, assuming he isn’t a polygamist, that identifies her… If Dickerson didn’t pick up on the hint, that doesn’t mean that Fleischer didn’t identify her).

    Other than that, these stories seem to actually help one another- both parties acknowledge the date, time, and subject of the conversation. If there are slight differences in what each remembers being said, that’s pretty normal- ask any married guy…

  • It’s my guess that Dickerson’s wrong because he just doesn’t understand how the Whitehouse does that kind of thing. Ari was passing on a few hints that Dickerson was supposed to follow-up on. Because that’s how they do things. They want the reporters to think they’re digging up some big story, which is really being handed to them on a platter. In this case, Dickerson was supposed to follow-up with other Whitehouse officials and think he was digging up a big scoop.

    They’ve trained these people well. They think they’re Woodward and Bernstein, when they’re really little better than Drudge. And that goes for Woodward too.

  • As Larry Johnson put it (unrepentant personal promotion: see my blog for the whole thing – including the links):

    Give Scooter Libby credit for something, the man is at heart an artist with a firm grip on irony and probably has inked a deal with Danny DeVito to play him when this tawdry event becomes a movie. How else to account for his July 7, 2003 chat with White House spokesman Ari Fleischer. Fleischer testified in court today that during a lunch with Libby, Scooter told Ari that Valerie Plame worked at the CIA in CPD (a division in the Directorate of Operations) and that this info was, “hush, hush and on the QT”.

    Paging Danny DeVito. Mr. DeVito please. Yep cineophiles, Scooter was quoting Danny Devito from L.A. Confidential. As described by Clark Kimball of the St. Louis Post Dispatch, Danny DeVito:

    “…was the slimeball publisher of a tabloid tattler that outed celebs and civic insiders, helped in no small part by “moles” inside the Police Department, in particular Kevin Spacey as the “technical adviser”, a detective who found a synergistic partner in DeVito. Their careers were mutually boosted by high-profile arrests and tawdry exposes. Of course, both characters paid a huge price for their methods. ”

    DeVito answers the phone throught the movie with this stock phrase, “HUSH, HUSH, and on the QT”.

    Damn! It don’t get any better than this. Talk about art imitating life. Danny DeVito played a scumbag, but Scooter Libby really is one. DeVito outed fictional celebs while Libby helped expose a CIA undercover officer. And Danny DeVito’s character gets beaten to death. Ahh, we can only dream.

  • If Fleischer’s testimony proves anything it’s that the effort to out Plame and hopefully discredit Wilson has an organized plot.

    If it wasn’t, why would Ari be dropping such vague but pointed hints about Plame and Wilson to the news media when Ari was told “This is hush-hush, this is on the Q.T. Not very many people know about this.” In a White House that especially in the first term took extraordinary pride in keeping mouths shut and not leaking sensitive info, why else would Ari think a juicy secret like that should be leaked to the press, especially in such a covert way of dropping hopefully obvious hints?

    I don’t fall for Ari’s faux stupidity when he worked in a White House that was all about message discipline and tight control of information. It just doesn’t make sense.

  • It doesn’t really matter if the memories of all the details are exactly the same, the main point is the point made by Ed Stephan, this is the most corrupt and sleazy administration in my memory and it may be the worst administration in our nation’s history of corruption and sleaze. The Robber Barons that TR went after have nothing on this bunch. Some say the Tea Pot Dome story made Warren G Harding take his own life, but no one knows for sure. George W Bush lacks the class to take his own life, and anyway Cheney would use the opportunity to steal a little more for Halliburton. I have believed for quite a while that the only answer for the USA is an impeachment trial and a conviction because I don’t see how we can survive another two years of this corruption.

  • This seems to fit a pattern of the Bushies playing off the competitive and gossipy tendencies of the press to forward their message and blur their fingerprints on the “finished” product.

    Their methodology seems to be to inject the virus of their spin into the bloodstream of the MSM. It is done discreetly and at so many points that it becomes difficult for any normal examination to determine how exactly the viral lie entered the system. Did the WH infect the media or did the media simply infect itself and then spread the lie back to the WH? It is simply “Plant the Seed of WMD w/Judy Miller” redux. The question will be whether Fitzgerald can reveal just exactly how the WH (OVP) put (and kept) things in motion.

  • I’ll have to say what impresses me so far is how much Libby is Cheney’s bitch. Libby must love the Dickster cause he is gonna go to jail for him.

    I tell you what else is perfectly clear too. Libby is a traitor. Rove is a traitor. Cheney is a traitor. They outed a covert CIA agent who worked on nuclear proliferation in Iran. Bush should fire Rove and Cheney right now.

  • Yeah, but Dickerson’s an idiot. He couldn’t remember 5:00 at 5:30. If it weren’t for mommy, he’d be working at the Shopping News.

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