‘Will embarrassing the president make us safer?’

Former NYC Mayor Ed Koch, who sadly slipped from reality a while ago, has a new column out that several far-right blogs are excited about. If offers an intriguing argument.

Democrats and some Republicans in Congress are seeking to humble, embarrass and, if they can, destroy the President and the prestige of his position as the Commander-in-Chief who is responsible for the safety of our military forces and the nation’s defenses. By doing so, they are adding to the dangers that face our nation. And so I ask again them again: do you think that leaving a power vacuum in Iraq will make us safer? If, as a result of the power vacuum, the terrorists are emboldened and God forbid we sustain here in the U.S. civilian casualties comparable to those caused in Iraq by car bombs, will you publicly accept responsibility?

It’s one of the stranger columns I’ve seen in a while, and I’m not quite sure why so many conservatives are so fond of it. Koch spends about 1,000 words talking up the threat against Iran, and concludes that the real problem is a non-binding resolution about escalation in Iraq. It appears to be a column so poorly edited that key paragraphs have been omitted altogether.

Nevertheless, if we look at Koch’s “argument,” it has a certain child-like quality to it: the president is in charge of the military; the military keeps us safe; Congress is criticizing the president’s military strategy; therefore Congress is interfering with our safety.

From there, Koch’s “logic” leads him to believe that critics of the president’s policy will be responsible for domestic terrorist attacks. No, I don’t understand it either.

I’m trying to wrap my head around this, in part because conservatives seem to believe the argument has merit. If U.S. forces withdraw, there may be a power vacuum in Iraq, which terrorists will supposedly fill. Therefore, domestic U.S. civilians are at risk. Again, it seems like there are important sentences missing that might tie these points together.

I suspect Koch is trying to say that if we withdraw from Iraq, the bad guys will follow us home, a favorite White House talking point. As Fred Kaplan explained yesterday, the Bush gang really ought to rethink this one.

Someone up high still seems to think it’s true or at least catchy. In fact, it makes no sense whatever. First, it assumes that “the enemy” in Iraq consists entirely of al-Qaida terrorists, when they comprise only a small segment of the forces attacking U.S. troops. Sunni insurgents and Shiite militias are not likely to “follow us home.”

Second, if terrorists wanted to attack American territory again (and maybe they do), their ability to do so is unaffected by whether we stay in or pull out of Iraq. It’s not as if they’re all holed up in Baghdad and Anbar province, just waiting for the fighting to stop so they can climb out of their foxholes and go blow up New York. If al-Qaida is a global network, its agents can fight in both places.

Third, this is a hell of a thing to say in front of the allies. It’s a crudely selfish message, suggesting that we’re getting a lot of people killed over there in order that nobody gets killed back here. What leader of a beleaguered nation, reading this remark, would seek America’s protection?

For what it’s worth, to answer Koch’s question directly, if Bush’s failed Iraq policy leads to more domestic terrorism, no, critics of the war won’t “publicly accept responsibility.” Will Koch?

One more point to add would be the sheer insanity of the logical conclusion that is presented by the moronic “fight them there, not here” bullshit:

What about all the other countries where “the bad guys” exist? Shouldn’t we be fighting them there so we won’t have to fight them here? We would need to launch a dozen more quagmires.

I hope the Dems ask the Republicrooks how many quagmires would be too many.

  • I’d like to rephrase the question—and I don’t have to change any of the words—just the order in which they are presented:

    WILL THE EMBARRASSING PRESIDENT MAKE US SAFER?

    Ummm…no….

  • Whaddya expect? Ed Koch is following the party line……. The Lobby/PNAC/AIPAC. The US invasion of iraq was a proxy war on behalf of Israel, and Iran has always been in the plan. See “A Clean Break: A Strategic Plan for the Realm” of 1996. (google It!) Note how the authors, most of them, work or have worked for the US Government.

  • Hmmmm…by Koch’s logic, the attacks on 9/11 can be laid directly at the feet of those who attempted to embarrass and hamstring Bill Clinton when he was Commander in Chief, right?

    Gosh, if they’d only known…

  • Based on this logic, they can no longer argue that it was Clinton who was ultimately responsible for 9/11, but rather his critics. I knew it!

  • Power vacuum? That’s what happened when Bushco overthrew Saddam and didn’t have any power structure (Iraqi or American) in place to fill the void. One of the many colossal mistakes in Iraq, but perhaps the greatest. Ready, fire, aim.

  • The power vacuum in Iraq is nothing compared to the leadership vacuum here at home.

    Iraq (willful ignorance and failure)
    Iraq (Joe Albaugh’s retirement)
    TGWOT (war on a tactic against who knows who?)
    Global Meltdown (scrubbers in smokestacks optional, death from asthma?)
    Energy Policy (Halliburton to the [oil industrys] rescue)
    NCLB (Corp Welfare for the AIMS test people)
    Missile Defense ( Corp Welfare for Northrop Grummond)
    Social Security (Don’t mention the $6 Trillion conversion costs)
    Health Care (a trillion isn’t a real number, say “400 billion”)
    Health Care (as long as AARP thinks the donut hole is ok)
    Health Care (if you get your drugs in Canada, go to jail)
    Health Care (did you say 47 million uninsured? I can’t hear you)
    Choice (take your shoes off and get back in the kitchen)
    Torture (See Inquisition, Spanish)
    Human Rights (see Torture)
    Habeus Corpus (Ask Alberto Gonzales)
    Rule of Law (nana nana nu nu – next)
    US Constitution (“Signing Statement” = Shredder)

    Number of people driven insane by neverending incompetence and lying? At least one.

  • Good one Steve #2

    I wonder if Koch’s grandkids (great-grandkids?) help him with his “homework”. That’s the level of that column.

    There really won’t be a vacuum for the Al Quaida to enter in Iraq when we’re gone. There are several countervailing forces there that will either bring a balance and order or continues the civil war for a long time. Let’s declare victory and get the fock out of there.

  • I suspect Koch is trying to say that if we withdraw from Iraq, the bad guys will follow us home, a favorite White House talking point.

    What I don’t understand about the “fight them here” talking point is how all the al-Qaida fighters are gonna get here? Is there an al-Qaida travel agent somewhere handing out tickets? They all gonna hop on a cruise ship and steam on over? Maybe they can pack ’em all up in a cargo ship… Or are they saying that the al-Qaida guys are such bad dudes it only takes a handful. Brings to mind the scene in the Kill Bill movie where Uma takes on the whole gang.

    I would think that if they are going to move enough people over here to fight us in the streets all we would have to do is check out Google maps every hour or so to see where everybody is. We should be able to spot them getting on the bus or something.

    [/snark]

    Really though, I’d like someone to explain this to me. How they gonna follow us here? Oh wait, I forgot about Halliburton. Anybody know if they’ve had a bunch of tickets printed lately?

  • ‘Will embarrassing the president make us safer?’

    I would say no, embarrassing Bush won’t make us much safer. Impeachment, on the other hand…

  • Bush already created a “power” vacuum in Iraq – if by power you mean electricity, that is…

    Paul Krugman: “So why is power scarcer than ever? Sabotage by insurgents is one factor. But as The Los Angeles Times showed, the blackouts are also the result of some incredible missteps by U.S. officials. Most notably, U.S. officials decided to base their electricity plan on natural gas: American companies were hired to install gas-fired generators in power plants across Iraq. But “pipelines needed to transport the gas” – to the new generators – “weren’t built because Iraq’s Oil Ministry, with U.S. encouragement, concentrated instead on boosting oil production.” Whoops.

  • Since when has the war in Iraq protected us from domestic terrorism?

    When a 18-year-old man shotgunned 5 innocent shoppers at a mall in Salt Lake City, before being gunned down himself, how can this NOT be considered domestic terrorism? Because the perpetrator was a not brown-skinned?

  • ***Shouldn’t Koch have been placed in an asylum long ago?***
    —————Ed Stephan

    He was. It’s called “Bush’s Bubble….”

  • Here is what I don’t understand about the “they’ll follow us home” argument. If AQ is really any good at what they do, isn’t it much more likely — unless we assume they are strategic morons — that if they could they would attack us when they know a substantial percentage of our defensive resources are tied up in Iraq and Afghanistan? Doesn’t the absence from the homeland of 140,000 troops and associated equipment, and all of our “eyes” being on the Persian Gulf, encourage AQ to “fight us here”? Just because our commander in chief is an idiot, why do we assume their is as well? Why would they rather fight hard targets over there when we have less defense available for soft targets over here?

    Not only is the WH talking point on this one nonsensical, looked at logically it actually supports our leaving Iraq.

  • Zeitgeist nails it (albeit in a bank shot)

    Having all our troops over there makes us much less safe over here, because the National Guard used to do a lot of things like fighting fires and rescuing flood victims. Many of them used to be policemen and firemen. Now they’re PTSD victims.

    Feel safer yet?

    But of course we needed to send them to attack Saddam because even though he wasn’t supporting alQaeda we knew that Iraq would become the front line in the GWOT.

  • No one is embarrassing Bush, other than himself and his inner circle. What Democrats have been saying, since Ed is so hard of hearing, is that Bush needs to quit embarrassing this nation. That’s what we’re trying to stop.

    There will be no power vaccuum in Iraq when US forces leave. All the power players are already in place. The US presence in Iraq actually acts as a foil for the games of the power players to play off of. Once we are out, they will have to get down to brass tacks and solve their problems, one way or the other. We are propping up an unbalanced situation over there. The Iraqis will have to find their own balance without our influence to achieve a lasting peace. Their government has reduced credibility with the Iraqi people as long as Bush twists Malikis arm to get what he wants, and the US is excluding Iraq’s neighbors from participating in the peace while it is those neighbors that will either foment conflict or create the environment for peace. We’re meddling and not solving any problems with our presence.

    “Terrorists following us home” shows the utter failure of imagination of the paranoid right. Given stricter security in the US, it will be much easier to strike at US economic interests abroad where the US has far less control. Cyber attacks, attacks on oil infrastructure or tankers, targeting US tourists or US corporations will have the same effect for AQ. As long as the US feels the fear and suffers negative economic impacts they succeed. What we can control is how motivated these individuals are and how much sympathy they evoke from bystanders that will either comply with, turn a blind eye to or turn in would be terrorists. That is our true battleground, not Iraq or Iran. Our actiosn will either stir greater resentment toward the US and incease the liklihood of further attacks, or we can do the opposite and opt to reduce tensions. Our choice.

  • I’m not quite sure why so many conservatives are so fond of it.

    Because it repeats everything they say and think backed by the “authoritah” of a former Mayor, of NYC even. And NYC was hit by terrorists. So it must be true. Or something.

    I’m trying to wrap my head around this…

    Please be sure to wash with disinfectant afterwards!

    As to embarrasing or humbling the pResident Evil, that of course is impossible. Addicts are well known for their massive egos, lack of shame and who gives a fuck attitude towards what other people think. What might happen is BushBrat will get annoyed because people keep ignoring him and no longer dance to his tune. He might order an attack on Iran to show “them” he’s still a “War Prezidint.” He might try to stretch the term “Enemy Combatant” to apply to dissenters. He might ignore another “Bin Laden is Going to Fly Planes into Buildings,” memo and when something goes Boom say “I told you so.” Should that stop people from trying to keep the mad dog in the White House under control? Of course not. Anything he does to fuck with the US and the world will only come back and take another bite out of his arse.

  • Either the president is a combination of politician and civilian commander of the military or he’s somehow two separate people. If he’s a combination, then he’s certainly up for criticism for the political decision which took us to war and for subsequent decisions. If his primary function in time of war is Commander-in-Chief, and he handles that job with extreme incompetence (as he has), then he should be removed no less swiftly than, say, an incompetent general on the battlefield.

    At some point we’re going to have to do something about the militarization of the US — the notion that the military point of view somehow has more weight than or trumps civilian oversight. In that forum Harper’s held, Andrew Bacevitch — who’s certainly on the side of the military — nonetheless expressed a fear that we are tipping towards even further militarization. The breathless importance with which we’re expected to endow the military now is partly (or maybe mostly) a concoction of the defense industry.

    Ed Koch is understandably a little sensitive personally about what happens to an emperor when discovered to be naked! He was once a funny, kindly, and stalwartly liberal fella, if a tad big in the head. Which contributed to his downfall.

  • No matter what the President/Republicans do it will be blasted by the left and the Democratic Party. They have no choice but to “go it alone”.

  • The talk of ’embarassing the President’ is a bit off the mark. The point isn’t to embarass the president, the point is for the legislative branch to kick the snot out of an out-of-control executive branch. Whether or not it would really be good for five-hundred-and-change legislators with parochial, partisan interests and without executive perspective or power to take more control over military affairs and foreign policy is a legitimate question. The legitimate answer is, considering the alternatives, yes, it really would be a good thing – and THAT SUCKS, but that’s where we are.

    Oh, and by the way, no more fast-track trade negotiating authority for ANYBODY. Hear me, Congress?

  • Were people like Lieberman and Koch always this way? How can I put this….

    Have they simply turned more conservative with age, embracing the Reagan so-called revolution and moving steadily more right? Or can I ask if their positions have stemmed more from strongly identifying with whatever Israeli governments — liberal or conservative — see as their needs? If so, are their feelings based on a sense of heritage or are they based on religious beliefs such as are held by some conservative Christians? Or, to give them the benefit of the doubt, simply indepth knowledge of what’s going on there, based on having studied the area?

    In other words, I find their shift in position from my perception of their views 5 or 10 years ago startling, and can’t help wonder if it stems from their being Jewish.

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