A senator, an ‘outing,’ and an uproar

If you’ve been to any conservative blogs today, you know that the story of the day is the controversy over Sen. Larry Craig’s (R-Idaho) sexual orientation. I just don’t know what to make of this.

Mike Rogers, who calls himself “the nation’s leading gay activist blogger” has just finished a nationally-broadcast interview on the Ed Schultz Radio Show in which he alleges that Idaho Republican Senator Larry Craig has engaged in same-sex sexual activity.

Senator Craig’s office flatly rejected the claims. “The Senator says this story is absolutely ridiculous — almost laughable,” said press secretary Sid Smith. “It has no basis in fact.”

Rogers said he has talked to three men unknown to each other who all reported in detail their sexual encounters with Craig over the last four years. The men were of legal age, Rogers said…. Rogers says that digging into the private lives of politicians who support anti-gay legislation is legitimate. Because Craig supported and voted for the Defense of Marriage act, it is politically relevant to reveal these claims, Rogers said.

I don’t know, and don’t much care, if Rogers’ “scoop” is true. I do, however, think the issue is worth exploring a bit, because these incidents are becoming more common and will likely continue to be prevalent in the near future.

As Glenn noted, the right is apoplectic about this, at least online. Some are arguing that a political figure’s sex life shouldn’t be dragged into the public arena (which is, of course, ironic), while others believe it’s wrong to use sexual orientation as a political weapon (which is obviously only to be used when there’s a vote on a constitutional amendment, and even then, only by the right).

I have to say, I have mixed feelings about this one. Maybe it’s time for a Wednesday Afternoon Discussion Group.

On the one hand, I strongly believe a person’s sexual habits, as long as it relates to consenting adults, are an entirely private matter. Craig — whom I should note is married with children and grandchildren — may or may not have had gay encounters; that’s his business. If he they occurred and he chose to keep them secret, it’s a private matter.

On the other hand, Shakespeare’s Sister raises a compelling point.

I would absolutely not support the public outing of a private citizen whose sexuality had no bearing on his/her ability to do his/her job, and whose job had no association with perpetuating public discrimination against the LGBT community. That covers just about every private citizen in the country. Public officials, however, are actively involved in making decisions that affect the LGBT community, and if there’s a public official who consistently votes to limit their rights, but is only afforded his/her position to do so by virtue of the protection of a closet, that’s a real problem.

Craig has been virulently anti-gay in his voting record, which would certainly make him a hypocrite, if this unsubstantiated rumor is true. In this sense, Craig’s past would be relevant much the same way Newt Gingrich’s embarrassing past (affair, divorce, affair, divorce) is relevant — he keeps lecturing the rest of us on standards he doesn’t apply to himself.

Maybe.

My inclination, at the end of the day, is that forced outings are wrong and an invasion of privacy, no matter who is being targeted. I open the floor, however, to competing ideas.

Any gay Republican who supports the party’s anti-gay agenda must be outed. Period.

  • Please, please, PLEASE stop using the “at the end of the day” cliche. It is perhaps the most over used phrase in modern American English.

  • While I think the privacy of the individual should be respected, I also think the positions Craig has taken amount to something just short of hate crimes. Or maybe it would be more appropriate to say they are just short of self-hate crimes.

    Clearly this man is ambivalent and conflicted about his own sexuality. He has choosen to work this conflict out in a public arena, to the detriment of others. It is not unreasonable, therefore, for both sides of his personal conflict to be made a matter of public record.

    Or to put it another way, by having so little respect for the privacy of others, he merits equal respect for his own privacy from others.

  • Ok, I hesitate to say this, because it’s all hearsay. But a close friend of mine in the 1980’s managed the campaign of a political opponent of Larry Craig’s. According to my friend, Craig was well known for having same-sex relationships. They debated amongst themselves whether to “Out” Craig back then, but decided against it.

  • Please, please, PLEASE stop using the “at the end of the day” cliche. It is perhaps the most over used phrase in modern American English.

    Comment by The Gutter Monkey

    Sit on it, GM.

  • It’s not the orientation, its the hypocrisy. Each and every voter is entitled to know if their representative actually practices what he or she preaches. Once a politician brings in/uses as a political tool such issues as “values” or “family values,” or begins to seek to discriminate against a certain portion of our public as part of political policy, then I think each and every voter has the right to know whether that politician is living up to the standards that that politician is himself or herself presenting. It would have been proper and relevant to out Joe McCarthy if he was a closet communist. These clowns themselves brought this issue to the fore and have used it as a wedge to divide this country. And any one of them that has ever used such tools is properly subject to such scrutiny.

  • The bottom line is that it’s six of one, half dozen of another. And from here on out going forward, you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you dont.

    Sorry, I had to.

    -P

  • CB, suppose I step out of the box for a wee bit, and look at this from a more encompassing POV.

    I’m not going to say that this, or any other, forced outing is justifiable—but this seems to be about something more than just “outing” someone. This goes to someone hiding a personal truth, and then applying the covert deception as a means to justify an attitude of polarized opposition.

    Take Foley, for instance. It’s not about his being gay; it’s about his tendencies toward seeking sexual solace with minors in the Congressional page program.

    Apply this to Craig, and it’s still not about his allegedly being gay; it’s about the overt dishonesty of playing both sides of the field. It’s about his wanting something to be okay for him, but then to have it be fundamentally wrong for each and every other member of the US population.

    It’s as if Craig wants to construct a hybrid program that blends the K Street Project with GLBT rights.

    It boils down to a simple ethos—if you decry something as wrong to the public’s face, yet engage in that thing behind the public’s back, then you need to consider the possible scenario of having the public find out. If Craig is in the closet while actively seeking to purge society of homosexuality, they he deserves to be tarred and feathered by his xenophobic friends. But if Rogers is in the wrong, then HE deserves to be “outed”—as a fraud….

  • Why should anyone’s sexual orientation have to be kept private? It’s been years since “outing” anyone who might have a drop of other than white blood was a big deal, after all. Respecting the notion of the closet is to endorse continuing discrimination.

  • My belief in the right of privacy regarding legal consensual sex is absolute. And yet I hate hypocrisy. And yet I support free speech.

    If an incumbet invaded privacy I think he would be commiting a crime because he is acting as an agent of the government. Whereas in Journalism it’s an ethics matter.

    But if a person is a public individual their protections againt invasion of privacy have been somewhat abrogated. So I would think a politicial would be fair game for any truth no matter how personal.

    There’s the idea that if the situation is important enough that one can violate their own standards, knowing full well that there will probably be a personal price to pay for it.

    I’m glad I don’t have to decide.

  • Damn … that is a tough one.

    The GOP has made a person’s sexual orientation one of their key issues — and for some, THE issue — and have time and again tried to take away the rights of others based on that orientation. And while I hate to use the 3rd grade “They started it!” argument, I think it may apply.

    But, quite frankly, I don’t see how anyone’s sexual orientation matters one frickin’ bit. As long as everyone is of legal age and in agreement, I don’t really care, and it won’t affect for whom I vote.

    Honestly — there are PLENTY of issues to shred the GOP upon, most of which could land a large number of them in the pokey. I say we focus on those issues, and leave what happens in the bedrooms of consenting adults where they lay (pun acknowledged, not intended).

  • Sometimes “rules” come into conflict and you have to make a tough choice.

    Rule #1: outing is wrong, an invasion of privacy, and inexcusably hurtful.

    Rule #2: hypocrisy is wrong, and among policymakers amounts to fraud on the electorate and is legitimately exposed as part of the proper vetting of candidates.

    If what one is being hypocritical about is homosexuality, the rules conflict: exposing the hypocrisy means outing.

    Here, however, I don’t find the choice that hard. While sexuality should not be used as a weapon, and homosexuality should not be made to be something derogatory, nor should sexuality have some special treatment. If we would expose a politician’s hypocrisy on any other issue — Hastert giving a “green” speech then hopping into a GigantoSUV; Bennett writing on virtue while running up huge gambling losses — why would sexual hypocrisy be any different?

    It is true I cried “foul” on the Lewinsky matter with Clinton. In part, that is because he was doing a great job on the public stuff, but it was also because he was NOT being hypocritical. Indeed, most voters realized he was a playa when they elected him. These rightwingnuts are another matter altogether.

  • My answer lies in a gray area. It’s not the sex, it’s the hypocrisy.

    Let’s take my good buddy Newt Gingrich for the first example. Newty was out there preaching good Christian morals for everyone, and going hammer-and-tongs at Bill Clinton for his indiscretions – all while cheating on his wife with a House aide. In this situation, if it can be established factually that someone isn’t practicing what he preaches, then I think it’s reasonable to say “Newt Gingrich is an effin’ hypocrite, and the voters in his Congressional District have a right to know what everyone in Washington knows.”

    As to outing someone as gay: a gay elected official who votes against gay rights, but isn’t out in the forefront of the anti-gay movement, should not be outed. But if that same gay elected official is out making anti-gay speeches, championing anti-gay legislation, praising the heteronormative ideal, etc., then his constituents have a right to know that their elected official is a hypocrite.

    Consensual sex should not be outed or punished. But lying, and flagrant hypocrisy, go to the character of an elected official, and is fair game.

    Staffers? Leave ’em alone. They are accountable to the elected official who hired them.

  • I think that, unfortunately, the sexuality of an individual is a legitimate target in today’s society. In a progressive society, it shouldn’t be (and, in most Western European countries, for example, it is beyond a non-issue), but American society is a veritable bed of hypocrisy. When a gay man stands up against gay rights, or a lesbian woman does the same, that is hypocrisy, and that should be exposed. A really suitable analogy would be a closet Jew supporting the persecution of Jews in Nazi Germany. Quite simply, there is no excuse.

    I think it exposes a lot about the Republican party that their membership has to be so closeted about their personal lives, and it disgusts me. After all, absent Liberal reforms, many of these people would be imprisoned for their actions (sodomy, for example). How can the ‘log cabin republicans’ support a party who has their extinction as a main campaign point???

    And the heart of the hypocrisy is defined by Cheney, who has a lesbian daughter. How in the world can he claim to both love his daughter and the ideals of the Republican party?

    But, maybe, I speak too much in haste. After all, the Republican Party is in love with POWER, no matter the route which gains them that. As such, the same party which now relies on an anti-immigrant message also relied upon the Hispanic vote to help bring Bush into power (when, remember, he touted his command of Spanish, having forgot to learn English in the first place…).

    What we see in the Republican Party is not the party of morals, but the party of Power. These are truly beyond Nazis, willing to play any role to gain and remain in power. Nothing, no value, is so sacred to them that they would not sacrifice it to gain that magical 51%.

  • Larry Craig’s sexuality is largely ignored in Idaho (until now), but it is still relatively well-known that he probably is gay. But that’s not the point of the discussion here: Half of Idaho would not vote for Craig if he came out, the seed of doubt is enough to keep his supporters in the fold. Not to mention his voting record furthers the notion that he might not be gay.

    However, if a large portion of his base would change their vote based on his orientation (and this is Idaho; trust me, they would turn on him for that), then those voters should know the truth about his sexuality – even if it means they’re shallow and self-righteous. We all knew that to begin with, anyway.

    Patrick-
    You forgot that this is neither here nor there… :-^)

  • Screw him and all his closeted bigots.

    Plus if he is in the closet and assuming he wants to remain, isn’t there some leverage factor to be considered. “Help me out Larry and you wifey doesn’t have to know about Johnny and the Hotbed Hotel.”

    I am not for outing, but once you run for public office, the public has a right to know about you and where you stand. If you are a coke head, I don’t want you voting on drug policy, and I sure as hell don’t want you crafting it. And on and on, just because it’s sexual in nature doesn’t give him or any other politician cover.

    If true, this is plain and simple adultery, just because it’s homosexual adultery doesn’t give him extra protection.

  • The bottom line is that it’s six of one, half dozen of another. And from here on out going forward, you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you dont.
    Sorry, I had to.
    -P

    Let me see if I understand. Does that mean that what goes around comes around?

    🙂 >>>>>>> 🙂

    Nothing, no value, is so sacred to them that they would not sacrifice it to gain that magical 51%.

    Comment by Castor Troy

    Man, at this point I’m starting to feel that way myself.

  • The Senator from Idaho doesn’t show up as a very big blip on my personal radar. Has he really been “virulently anti-gay” or did he just vote with his party on stuff like the DOM act? To me it makes a difference.

    If the former, it would be similar to finding out that the most prominent “pro-lifer” on the hill had encouraged and paid for her own daughter to have a late-term abortion. If the latter, it would seem to be analogous to the 50s-era Senator from Arkansas, J. William Fulbright, who made his name as a foreign-policy god, but who also voted the straight segregationist line on every civil rights bill. The former gets outed with pleasure; the latter rates an eye roll and a sigh.

    So, which one is Craig?

  • Let’s first look at the difference between being gay and indulging a fetish (one that involves sex with people of the same gender). In the former case I can understand anger at people who work for a party that is so blatantly anti-gay. In the latter case I can only say: What do you expect? Such fetishes aren’t any fun if the object of lust has all of the rights “real” humans have. I also hate to see the fetishists get any of the “Poor thing, he’s just confused,” pity. Screw that. The “poor thing,” thinks its a lot of fun to frolic with some guy (who according to all bigoted authorities only wants to have sex anyway) when the wife’s back is turned and then give a speech about protecting the family. Don’t waste outrage on this set. They think that’s funny too.

    For the people who are gay or lesbian and working in the GOP, I look at it this way: Say I know a staunch anti-abortionist has had an abortion or took a daughter/wife/mistress to have one. Should I expose the hypocrite? Hmmm. It would be a pretty cool trick and might get a wing-nut in trouble with the other wing-nuts but one of my quarrels with no-lifers is the same as my quarrel with homophobes and other arseholes Other people’s personal lives are none of your damn business. So to expose the hypocrisy I have to use a tactic that people I regard as evil use all of the time. Does any one recall another “List” that was created and maintained among the rabid fundies in Colorado?* It reportedly contained the names of gays and lesbians. Not just Repubs, not just Dems, just people who happened to be gay. Shock fucking horror. I can’t even begin to express how pissed off that made me because it was clear that the people who made this list were willing to defend the idea of family by hurting people who didn’t conform to their rules. If that made me see red for 10 days how can I say is it OK for a non-conservative radical to do this to members of the GOP? That would make me a hypocrite twice over. I’ll pass.

    tAiO

    *I’m 99.9% sure it was Colorado. Apologies if it is not.

  • My take on outing is pretty much this–

    1) they have to be a voluntary public figure who has control over the wellbeing and lives of others;

    2) in their public life they have a record of trying to actively harm/malign/discriminate against a community that they are secretly a part of.

    Both standards must apply for the outing to be justifiable. If Craig is indeed gay while engaging in anti-gay demonization then, frankly, he had it coming to him to be outed. This is about hypocrisy, not about being gay.

    I have to say, as a member of the glbt minority, it obviously bugs me that anyone would consider being gay something they should hide.

    As far as general profiles of polticians go, people running for public office are compelled to talk about their families, their religion, their religious beliefs (or ones they have to pretend to have) to be considered trustworthy in our society. I find it pretty absurd, that it should be based on, say, their record or positions, but that is the way stands right now.

    I’d like us to have a future where acknowledging that a person is gay and/or has a same-sex spouse is not tantamount to slander, which is the other reason I think outing isn’t some horrible attack on a person’s privacy– because there is nothing wrong with being gay. Let’s not act like there is by acting like it is shameful.

  • Even though outing is wrong. In this case I go back to the Clinton scandel when all the talking points were about someone blackmailing the POTUS. The sam goes for a senator or congressman. That being said I will take the Senator at his word unless one of these 3 claimed men come forward in person. Otherwise all it is is gossip. BTW I felt Clinton’s personal life was his and his family but his professional life may have jeoporized national security or many other things.

  • I’m of the mind that the private behavior of public figures is pretty much fair game. What makes items like these so noteworthy is that their private behavior is so out of bounds with their public persona — in other words it’s the hypocrisy and deceit.

    I could care less if Larry Craig is gay, and I feel the same about Barney Franks, Gerry Studds or Mark Foley. I do care a great deal when someone like Craig demonizes a group of people for who they are and denies them basic rights. If he’s gay, he’s a hypocrite and a liar. And frankly, shouldn’t the supporters in Idaho — who probably backed him for his fine “Christian” values — know he’s been lying about who he is?

    But on a purely petty level, I say go for it. I’m tired of hearing about Democrats being protrayed as the party of sodomy and sexual predators. I fucking sick of hearing about Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton. I’m damn tired of hearing about Chappaquidick and all the sordid long-ago Democratic “scandals” the right-wingers try to rub our noses in as if their shit didn’t stink. The shoe’s on the other and the wingnuts are crying foul? Fuck ’em. They can craw back under the rock they came from if they can’t handle it.

    It’s terrible we’ve come to this — deciding who and who isn’t worthy of public office based upon whom they have sex with and when. No wait, it’s even worse than that — deciding who’s worthy of full and complete citizenship based upon sexual orientation. We have the Newt Gingrichs, Rush Limbaughs, Rick Santorums and Larry Craigs to thank for that. I say turnabout is fair play. It’s a little bit late to be worrying about whether the rules the Republicans wrote are “fair.”

  • brainiac,

    i for one am not in favor of deciding political worth basedupon orientation. however, when a person is a hypocrit and therefore a liar, the voting public deserves to know that.

    anyone “thinking outside th box here?”

  • Anyone remember Roy Cohn or J. Edgar Hoover? If those guys had been outed way back when, would they have done as much harm to both society and specific individuals as they did?

    (And true, I believe that Hoover’s homosexuality hasn’t been confirmed. But even a public debate over that issue might have put the fear of hell into that snooping psycho.)

  • If you live by the sword, you should die by the sword. First, let’s ask ourselves what Craig would do if he found out his opponent was gay. This isn’t tiddlywinks, and we better get used to playing by the rules that currently apply, not tie one arm behind our backs. If you’re not prepared to play to win, get off the court.

    Second, the charge of being gay would have almost no impact if it wasn’t for the hatred the conservative Christians have fomented against gay people.

    Once we get back in power, we can try to restore some sense of decency, but til then we need to pound these jerks with anything they hand us.

    Out the hypocrites.

  • This is a terrible way to go about fighting the GOP on gay rights. It’s wrong on a lot of levels, plus its really bad politics. Reminds me of a scene from All the President’s Men.

    DEEP THROAT
    –you’ve done worse than let Haldeman
    slip away, you’ve got people feeling
    sorry for him–I didn’t think that
    was possible. A conspiracy like this–
    the rope has to tighten slowly around
    everyone’s neck. You build from the
    outer edges and you go step by step.
    If you shoot too high and miss, then
    everybody feels more secure. You’ve
    put the investigation back months.

  • I do not have a problem with his liking other men, but he was showing awful taste in using the Union Station men’s room. For those of you who are in Idaho, Union Station is a railroad station within walking distance of the Senate offices on Capitol Hill. Cheap, sleazy and rather ridiculous. I would out him for using Union Station even if he had taken his wife there.

  • It’s the hypocrisy, stupid.

    This shouldn’t be an issue, but as the Republicans have chosen to make it one, we must call them out on it every chance we get. If the shoe were on the other foot, do you think they would do any different?

  • Dd brings up what I believe is a relevant point, indirectly. What, at least so far seems to be true is that Craig is what is called a ‘t-room cruiser’ someone who enjoys casual, anonymous sex with men in restrooms, porn theatres or stores. rest stops, in parks, etc. (I should state that I have been enjoying such encounters myself for over 40 years. Only I was always open about this, to the point where on at least one job, if I came back late from lunch or an assignment, the boss wouldn’t ask ‘where were you?’ but instead ‘how did you do today?’)

    Many ‘t-room cruisers’ would sincerely — though wrongly — argue that they aren’t gay or bi, for one of two reasons. Either because in their minds ‘gay’ implies an emotional content lacking in such encounters — even I sometimes describe myself as ‘physically bi but emotionally straight’ since I only enjoy emotional-sexual relationships with women — all of whom have known of my ‘other interests. Or because in their mind ‘gay’ implies anal sex, an extreme rarity in this sort of encounter. Of the many thousands of encounters I have either participated in or, mostly, observed, well under 1% were anal.

    Having said that, I still have to convict Craig of hypocrisy in his voting and am glad that he has been outed — though it seems to have been very much an ‘open secret.’

    Oh, and I hope a few Democrats voluntarily come out soon. Between Craig, Foley, Dreier, Schrock, and the various aides that have been discussed, people might think all gays are hypocritical Republicans.

  • Let me suggest another way of looking at this, too. The outing of Craig is a terrible thng to do to one person. The Rethuglican Right positions on homosexuality are a terrible thing to do to an entire American community. But everytime the Rethugs are forced to come to grips with the fact that they’ve has a gay man in their midst and it hasn’t turned them gay, or given them AIDS, or devalued their marriages, we are one day closer to the Rethuglican half of society growing up and being rational adults who accept other human beings rather than demonizing them. The needs of the many outweigh good of the few, or the one. (eeeww – did I really just use that quote?) so yeah, out a Rethug every chance you get — because it speeds the day when they get over it and get over themselves and that will be a good day for all homosexual Americans, and frankly, for all Americans.

  • (I’m blaming CB for my bad geek quote. Its the subliminal influence from his ‘Space, the final frontier’ heading down the page.)

  • I hope all Republicans will suffer the wrath of an awakened America in a return to constitutional respect for the individual. Outing gays Republicans to destroy them politically is not a proud moment in this battle. I wish there were more noble methods employed, but war is hell.
    The swiftboat attacks on Kerry were a Democratic Pearl Harbor, and we can’t afford anymore deer in the headlights helpless moral indignation in the face of Rovian dirty tricks. Do what it takes to win and hope in the process we are not transformed into the very enemy we fight.

  • #1: Any gay Republican who supports the party’s anti-gay agenda must be outed. Period.

    Yes yes yes yes!!!

    And everyone else who said basically the same thing.

    The Republicans are hypocrites, but you can put all the evidence of all the rest of their hypocrisies out there and it will be denied by the Christer Right. But put out evidence that one of The Annointed is “one of them” and you drive them nuts. Good, it’s nothing less than the scumballs deserve.

    As to “Some are arguing that a political figure’s sex life shouldn’t be dragged into the public arena…” This is just more of the usual Republican attitude that “the rules only apply to the things we say they apply to.” The morons make the zany residents of Wonderland all look completely sane.

    Hoisting these assholes on their own records is wonderful.

  • “If he’s gay, he’s a hypocrite and a liar.” — briainiac, @23

    Which might make one wonder *what else* he might be lying about, and how reliable he is as a representative. Which is on top of the concern — which others have already expressed — that, if he’s a closet gay, then he’s open to blackmail, possibly more dangerous than that exerted on Foley (by Reynolds and Rove). Coming “clean” and leaving it to voters to decide if it matters seems to be a much more sensible idea (vide Studds)

    PS. Prup, @30. None of my beeswax, really, how you conduct your life but… One of my son’s godfathers used to cruise mens’ rooms (in DC, usually ) looking for sex. Died of AIDS in ’88 and we are all (my husband, my son and I) still missing the SOB, badly. So, erm… Be careful out there, eh?

  • RedState is charging that Rogers is guilty of attempting to blackmail a federal official, an offense which could be met with a 10 year prison sentence. Their argument is that threatening to out a gay GOP Senator if he voted for Alito constitutes blackmail.
    I think the Redstate argument should be answered, for amusement’s sake if nothing else.

  • It’s a little difficult to argue for privacy when one has sex in Union Station.

    Jim Kolbe was a page in 1981 I think. It’s none of my business but I wonder if he partied with any politicians when he was there.

    If Craig’s wife didn’t know there’s a possibility that his actions were criminal in the sense of wreckless endangerment.

    The Sexual Outlaw by John Rechy is a really well-written book about that lifestyle.

    It’s all about more D’s than R’s.

  • “Craig has been virulently anti-gay in his voting record, which would certainly make him a hypocrite, if this unsubstantiated rumor is true.” – CB

    You know, it is possible to engage in homosexual activity and still think that homosexuals don’t deserve legal protection in jobs and housing and certainly in legal recognition of marriage.

    I don’t know exactly what “anti-gay” means, other than voting for the Defense of Marriage Act and the proposed amendment. As far as I’m concerned, if he has not supported a law making it legal to kill gays on the street, he’s not been hypocritical.

    Not every prostitute believes prostitution should be legal.
    Not every homosexual thinks gays need “special” rights.

    After all, there are lots of sick people in the world. But you have to judge them by valid criteria, and not all homosexuals need to support gay rights.

  • I’m against outing. Sure, I think you can rationalize it in lots of ways. I still don’t like it. That’s the type of thing I’d expect the Republicans to do, and I don’t want to be like them.

  • I had been listening to Ed Schultz when this guy was on earlier in the week and he’s been promising to “out” one politico (official or staffer) every day up until the election. I was immediately torn by the implications of this and found it to be decidedly cringe-worthy. As many of you mention and I think most posters here feel, privacy IS a fundamental right and the right to choose your sexual partners is about as fundamental as it gets.

    But as with any right, there are always limitations, some legal. For instance, there’s freedom of speech, but you can’t yell fire in a crowded theater, you can’t slander/libel someone, etc. You’re supposed to need a warrant to search someone’s home, but the law allows for “exigent circumstances.” But some limitations are based on society’s “morals” (however you want to define that) or just what has come to be expected in our society. We often talk about Hollywood actors having thrust themselves into the limelight and that they shouldn’t complaint about the paparazzi – where do you draw the line there?

    Here, Craig is apparently quite the little hypocrite. I don’t know, I’ve never even heard the guy’s name before. But as an elected official who has taken a defined position on very specific public issues, and on an issue that his party and supporters classify as a position having to do with one’s “morality,” I think he does open himself up to having his “morality” questioned or challenged and if that means he gets outed, then so be it.

    That doesn’t mean I have to like it though and it truly is choosing between the lesser of two evils. All in all, ahem, it does “leave a bad taste in my mouth.” And no, I’m not referring to #30 above.

    PS – Zeitgeist, as usual, good point, but you messed up the quote: “The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Or the one.”

    Did I just publicly correct someone for a ST quote? My geekiest apologies.

  • CB: Craig — whom I should note is married with children and grandchildren

    Why do you feel obligated to note that? From what I have read elsewhere, Craig was a single congressman when the page scandals of 1982 broke. He reacted to it by announcing that he was heterosexual and shortly thereafter married a member of his staff and adopted her two children. The children and grandchildren are not blood relatives, and being married is not evidence in and of itself that he has ever slept with a woman in his life. Maybe he’s bisexual (or has no interest in sex at all) or the alegations aren’t true, but his circumstances are suspicious especially the marriage.

    BTW, my personal opinion is that outing is extremely low-class but not necessarily a bad response to Republican hypocrisy. In other words, I wouldn’t do it but don’t think it’s wrong if Rogers chooses to. Politics is a dirty business, and any elected official who expects to keep their private life out of the news is naive.

  • bubba @ #24,

    For the record, determining political worth based on orientation certainly isn’t my first choice. However, my point is that Republicans have long made that distinction, so it’s time to hold them to their own really sleazy standards. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones, and all that.

  • I have mixed feelings on this one too.

    I think it is very dangerous to get into a game of making people’s sexual orientation relevant to the debate. Politics being what it is, this could very quickly go downhill. Are we going to start demanding that all our Congressmen/women announce their sexual orientation before taking office from now on? I’d hope not.

    HOWEVER, if a gay congressman is making life miserable for his fellow human beings just for the sake of political expediency, I think in a way he becomes fair game. Such rank hypocrisy deserves to be exposed.

    While we are on the subject, for the life of me I don’t understand what people have against civil unions. I understand what people might have against marriage as that is more of religious issue. But simply allowing a partner to visit the other in the hospital, take part in health insurance and eventually receive the estate… To me these are basic human issues that transcend one’s sexual orientation. It’s about humanity.

    What kind of country have we become?

    Are ovens next?

  • Right wing closet cases who use homophobia to get elected are despicable. Yet using homophobia to get them un-elected is nearly as ugly. Don’t kid yourself… that’s what will happen.

    That closet cases are so filled with shame is pitiful, and it is also hurtful in that they project their shame onto others. But that sort of subtlety will be lost in the political maelstrom.

    Getting 52% or 55% of the country to vote with the enlightened side, by whatever means, would be nice; we’d win some things politically. But the war would carry on, more bitter than ever. Democrats gaining strength because some voters come to view both parties as equally sinful doesn’t really do much to end the culture of shame driven by a politics of fear. Bitter queens need to fight hate with love, not hate. The ends do not justify the means.

    What we really need is to really change some hearts and minds so this stupid culture war can fade into obscurity.

    The way to deal with the shame is to support a culture where young people will not start a fake life and just come out as adolescents or young adults. The way to advance our society is through education, and through people coming out and being themselves, and by appreciating that most of the people who “don’t get it” were raised to fear the wrong things and will never listen or change without first feeling some basic level of respect for the people who are asking them to change. That will never happen unless they feel some respect from the people asking them to change. That’s why the biggest advancement in respect for gays happened at work. Otherwise clueless people came to respect someone’s work, then went out for a beer and found out that they had come to respect someone different… cognitive dissonance working in the right direction.

    The number one thing that has advanced gay rights and respect for gay people has been increasingly numbers of people coming out and living their lives with dignity.

    Outing people, however, is counter-productive and ugly.

    If we want dignity, we have to practice it.

    It shouldn’t be ironic to point out that turning the other cheek, so to speak, is what Jesus might do. But it is, and I’m an atheist taboot.

  • As a gay man, what’s my take on all of this “outing” issue? There is no absolute law that governs when it is appropriate or inappropiate. The philosopher Emmanuel Kant argued that moral laws should be simple and absolute, but – from experience – that cannot apply to outing. The only absolute moral law that applies here is to fight evil and the hypocrisy that creates or perpetuates it.

    There are circumstances that call for NOT outing people, usually (but not always) because they involve danger. The first that comes to mind is living in a society or under a government that is gay-oppressive. Many times these situations are totalitarian, dictatorial, or fascist. One could argue successfully that we currently are experiencing such a government and society in this country at this time. (Slaps forhead) Oh, yeah! A society and government that Larry Craig has helped create and support.

    A second circumstance is if a person is in serious physical or financial danger as result of coming out. But I don’t think that Larry Craig has to worry that his parents will chase him down the street with a shotgun because of his coming out (this example is based on a true account). Also, I don’t think he will be forced to live on the street because his employer fired him or his parents have suddenly withdrawn financial support; so he won’t be forced to turn to hooking himself on the street or some other illicit or demeaning means to support himself.

    Last but not least, a private person deserves to have his privacy. Oh! That’s right! Larry’s not a private person. (Gasp!) He’s a public official! And he wouldn’t think twice about having you look at his political opponents’ skeletons.

    True, one can argue that public officials deserve privacy too. But I yank that privilege when they support policies and laws that target people and then try to surreptitiously enjoy the lifestyle(s), culture(s), etc. of those people. Examples? Mark Foley, who targeted people who are internet sexual predators of legal minors by making them criminals while engaging in the same behavior himself. Former Sen. Packwood, who supported women’s rights, but then he engaged in sexual harrassment against female employees and lobbyists. Any public official who claims to be against illegal immigration but hires undocumented persons to work for them. And any Nazi or neo-Nazi (and racist Virginian Republican for that matter) with Jewish ancestry or any KKK member with non-European ancestry.

    By taking the political and policy stands that Larry Craig has taken, he has opened himself up to being outed and suffering the consequences if he is gay or bisexual. If he is not gay or bisexual but subject to such efforts, hopefully he might learn some compassion from either empathy or experience – but I’m not holding my breath on that note.

    Bottom line? Don’t use well-intentioned, progressive sentiments or concepts to provide cover for abusive or illegal (and often right-wing) hypocrites. They are in danger only because they have created the danger themselves. By all means, HELP them to suffer the consequences themselves.

  • I can’t believe I’m going to say this, but “I agree with Bubba.” 🙂

    Outing of a private citizen is, in the normal course of things, wrong. But publicizing the acts of a politician who votes one way and acts the opposite on *any* issue is fair game *because of the vote*. S/He has asserted a right to impose rules s/he does not feel compelled to follow. That’s good enough for me. Anybody who wants to legislate *my* morality had damn well better live up to their own rules.

  • Outing his homosexuality is wrong even if he opposed gay marriage. It not “virulent” to be gay and also be against gay marriage for whatever reason.

    Exposing his “adultery,” however, is fair game, according to rules laid down by Republicans themselves. And if the other woman happens to be a man, so be it.

  • I agree with Phonatic (#45). I want to emphasize that politicians who support imposing restrictions or penalties for private behavior are the ones who have torn down the wall between the public and the personal, not the outers. By voting against equal rights for gay people, Craig has shown his support for disregarding that wall and therefore his support for the outers.

    Also, as a gay man, I have to say I enjoy making homophobia work to my advantage for a change. I think we all know that if Foley had been hitting on female pages, we would have heard only a terse tsk-tsk from the fundies and this scandal would have been hardly a blip.

  • Pursuing this makes us hypocrites, regardless of how hypocritical Craig has been – at least it would make hypocrites of those of us who claim to value the privacy of our personal, and sexual lives – and those of our publically-elected officials. Before we take someone else to task we should look at ourselves and see if what we are doing is the kind of behavior that we condone. Further, once we engage in outright hypocritical behavior, we lose any moral ground we would otherwise have in calling someone else a hypocrite. We would be the pot calling the kettle black.

    For myself, “outing” Craig and making an issue of his sexuality is not something I would find ethical, and not something I could do. The right can be hypocritical all it wants, I believe it reflects very poorly on their character with the voters, but this kind of behavior is beneath my character.

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