Abu Ghraib torturer blames media for scandal

Everyone, pretty nearly everywhere, has seen the images of abuse at Abu Ghraib. The name of the prison alone has become synonymous with torture and humiliation, and the acts committed by Americans weakened our collective name on the global stage like almost nothing else in recent years.

Oddly enough, reflecting on the events, one of the more notorious players in this disgusting scandal still seems anxious to shift the blame. (via Oliver Willis)

Lynndie England, the public face of the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, told a German news magazine that she was sorry for appearing in photographs of detainees in the notorious Iraqi prison, and believes the scenes of torture and humiliation served as a powerful rallying point for anti-American insurgents.

In an interview with the weekly magazine Stern conducted in English and posted on its website Tuesday, England was both remorseful and unrepentant — and conceded that the published photos surely incensed insurgents in Iraq.

“I guess after the picture came out the insurgency picked up and Iraqis attacked the Americans and the British and they attacked in return and they were just killing each other. I felt bad about it … no, I felt pissed off. If the media hadn’t exposed the pictures to that extent, then thousands of lives would have been saved,” she was quoted as saying.

I see. England played a large role in torturing and humiliating Iraqi detainees, many of whom had done nothing wrong, but “thousands of lives would have been saved” if only her crimes had been covered up more effectively. As this worldview goes, the problem wasn’t her shameful and illegal conduct — she was, as you may recall, seen holding a naked prisoner on a leash — the problem was scrutiny of her shameful and illegal conduct.

Asked by the magazine if what happened at Abu Ghraib was a scandal or something that happens during wartime, England said it was the latter.

“I’m saying that what we did happens in war. It just isn’t documented,” she was quoted as saying. “If it had been broken by the news without the pictures it wouldn’t have been that big.”

She told the magazine that there are other photographs that have not been released that contain more graphic images than those that were seen on television, in newspapers and on the Internet.

“You see the dogs biting the prisoners. Or you see bite marks from the dogs. You can see MPs (military police) holding down a prisoner so a medic can give him a shot,” she said. “If those had been made public at the time, then the whole world would have looked at those and not at mine.”

I’ve wondered on many occasions what could possibly go on in the mind of one of the criminal guards at Abu Ghraib. England’s comments, unfortunately, offer a few too many answers.

Lynndie England short: I am a war criminal; not because I committed a war crime, but because my war crime was found out.

And I thought the Nazis were dumber than a Dusseldorf door-knob….

  • “I’ve wondered on many occasions what could possibly go on in the mind of one of the criminal guards at Abu Ghraib.”

    She says “the problem wasn’t her shameful and illegal conduct . . . the problem was scrutiny of her shameful and illegal conduct.”

    Remind you of anyone? E.g., someone who won’t turn over e-mail records, asserts inapplicable privileges, won’t reveal who’s getting spied on or how, and cancels the publication of unfavorable reports?

    Two peas in a pod.

  • She has the Commander in Chief’s policy down pat. Torture, lie and cover up. Abu Ghraib to Gitmo, sea to shining sea. If only they had thought to destroy the photos as well as the video. But the Bush types always need that trophy. Confounded leakers!

  • My impression of England is that she is borderline retarded, so I’m not sure she is capable of understanding that what she did was wrong. Which makes her excuses pretty much meaningless.

  • No media, no scandal. What’s tough to figure out there?
    No conscience, no shame. Not too hard to figure out, either.

  • is she bucking for a job in the bush administration? she’s obviously got the mindset down pat.

  • I’m sure if Lynndie England ever gets assaulted by someone and there happens to be a picture of the crime in progress, she’d want the picture to be held back so the jury wouldn’t see it.

  • Hey Shalimar –
    My impression of England and Bush is that they are borderline retarded, so I’m not sure they are capable of understanding that what they did was wrong. Which makes their excuses pretty much meaningless.

    There, fixed it for ya…

  • Here’s another outrage, Bush is saying that people are exaggerating the cost of the war…

    “…In recent months we’ve heard exaggerated estimates of the costs of this war…”

    This, of course, from the guy who fired Lawrence B. Lindsey for making an estimate that was low by a factor of 10. Lindsey now says Bush “chose not to engage in an open public discussion of what the consequences of the war might be”, which of course translates to “They knew they had to lie about the costs if they wanted the war to happen”

  • Yeah she’s justifying herself and avoiding responsibility, but her statements are true. Stuff like that does happen in war (one of the many reasons to not have wars) and more lives were lost because of the widespread distribution of the photos. Hopefully lives were saved because of the improvements made because of all the publicity, but I suspect they just tried to keep it better hidden.

    A lot of people above England got off the hook.

  • Social Psychologist Roy Baumeister did a study on why low level soldiers in Germany would agree to participate in the Holocaust. He argued that if people are encouraged to use the words “good” and “evil” to describe people rather than actions, they will always see themselves as good, and any action against an evil person is morally justified. This not only explains why Bush & Co. use words like “terrorist” and “al Qaeda” to describe all victims of our actions, it also explains Lynndie England’s worldview.

  • So little Lynndie who screwed half of her company while over in Iraq, gets knocked up by one of her fellow soldiers who happens to be married to another woman and otherwise generally sh*t the bed of her life with her poor decision-making tries to pull noble moral judgements about torturing her fellow human beings by saying “Sh*t happens?” … Priceless.

  • Somebody should tell her that blaming the media only works for campaigns. Her actions disgust me, and her excuses hold no weight.

  • This video explains the ms. england and the entire criminal cabal that brought us this illegal war of conquest, war crimes, and crimes against humanity:

    Will we see any justice? Stay tuned….

  • Regarding 11 above, we have no evidence to suggest that there is a cause effect relationship. That is, there is no particular statistical trends in violence, funding, etc. to suggest that there was a massive effect.

    This may seem to defy reason, but only if we don’t think it through. Remember, to the region, the pictures were not a shocking revelation, but simply evidence of beliefs that were already widely held to be true.

    Even if there had been a tangible effect, it would seem to be semi-retarded Bush thinking to assume the direct causal relationship. You have rumors of mistreatment, public examples of misconduct (civilian shootings at checkpoints, Blackwater misconduct etc.), and a basic resentment felt by any occupied nation. Now you have proof that the rumors are true…

    Publishing the pictures isn’t the real causal factor, since it is just confirming what people are hearing from the occupied area. OFFICIAL US REACTION would be the major causal factor. When you get caught being as horrible and shameful as your critics contend, how do you respond?

    We simply demonstrated that our words are false and the deeds, though publicly decried, are US policy. We should have overreacted, making an example of the whole chain of command up to Rummy. But, being ruled by selfish idiots…

  • Shalimar,

    Borderline?

    Clearly not being punished for her crime has taught her a valuable lesson and she continues to be a disgrace to America.

    She should have her citizenship revoked for treason and face trial in Iraq for war crimes.

  • Sorry, the photos were published to educate the American people. Iraqis knew firsthand the atrocities being carried out by our troops and mercenaries across their country. You cannot imprison thousands of civilians and keep word of their treatment from spreading. Also this is not SOP for occupying forces. Effective recon and intelligence gathering is done by forming trusting relationships with the populace, not by torturing them.


  • England was both remorseful and unrepentant

    Should this be either “both remorseful and repentant” or, perhaps more properly stated as “England was at once, remorseful and unrepentant”?

  • Fact 1: Within available records, it is documented that Lyndie England is of limited mental capacity. She had no business being in the military.

    Fact 2: Many more persons were involved in / participated in / looked the other way at the attrocities at Abu Ghraib.

    Fact 3: Torture and other acts similar to those documented at Abu Ghraib have been documented as being done at other locations in Iraq and Afganistan.

    Fact 4: The ‘harsh treatment’ that England participated in started at Abu Ghraib after the General running Guantanimo was transferred to Iraq after the Bush Admin ‘freaked out’ about how wrong they were about resistance to the American occupation.

    Fact 5: During the period of time that the Abu Ghraib ‘harsh treatment’ took place, Rumsfeld and Cheney were receiving daily briefings from Iraq on the results of intelligence gathering activities.

    Opinion 1: Lyndie England, while not deserving of other than condemnation for her actions, should be viewed in the light of her limited mental capacity and the environment in which she was placed.

    Opinion 2: That no one above the rank of Sargeant was punished for activities at Abu Ghraib is a travesty.

    Opinion 3: The environment in which England was placed was a direct result of orders from Rumsfeld and Cheney to do whatever it took to get more intelligence from prisoners.

    Opinion 4: Many ranking military officers should have been punished for their roles.

    Opinion 5: Rumsfeld and Cheney were not only aware of what was happening – they ordered it.

    Opinion 6: Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and some uncounted others deserve to be tried via an international tribunal for Crimes Against Humanity.

  • Sorry, looks like it was neither of the above (#21) but maybe:

    “England was both remorseless and unrepentant.”

  • @4 / Shalimar:

    I agree. And that’s not a joke. I truly believe her capacity to understand the situation is limited. She doesn’t know what’s up.

  • Many terrible, dehumanizing things happen in war. I would say ask any combat vet, but those experiences are the ones that they are least likely to relate. However, gleefully torturing people is not one of those things. It certainly does happen, because some people snap under the physical, psychological, and emotional strain.

    But institutionalizing it is another ball of string; moreover, it depends on how much combat those guards had seen. It is one thing to snap after watching a good many of your friends try and hold their intestines from slipping out the gaping hole in their abdomen with the one arm that they have left…while they scream in agony. It is a very different thing to just get sucked into the “joy” of torture and humiliation between hot meals and showers spaced less than a month apart.

  • My impression also is that Lyndie was not the sharpest stick in the bundle, but her attitude also reveals the level at which she and some of her compatriots viewed her Iraqi captives. They were less than human, beneath her and her contempt. No biggie – this stuff goes on. That said, she was one of a number of bit players who were scapegoated to protect those at the top of her her chain of command. As excerpted, her interview leaves me unable to feel much sympathy for her. Too bad Lyndie never learned (among other things) the first rule about what to do if she finds herself in a hole…

  • I am a Viet Nam vet. Among the earliest things that start occuring in a war zone is to dehumanize your enemy. After that, what you do to them does not have the value that it would to do that to humans.

    Regretable, but a fact of life is that war is, by its very essence, dehumanizing.

  • SmilingDixie, even more props to you for your service. With so many Veterans from that era still so bitter, it’s refreshing to see another who’s come out of it with insights such as yours.

    I read somewhere that when Abu Ghraib was finally closed, it was estimated that 90% of those were innocent. Seems to me this scene of this tragedy was most likely one of the prime breeding grounds for the current insurgency.

  • This shameful episode in American history is covered in depth and with great humanity in the March 24th issue of the New Yorker. I highly recommend finding it on your local newstand and reading it.

  • You might have a bit more tolerance and understanding of her if you see the film “Taxi to the Dark Side”(though it is not about her). Many of these soldiers are placed in an impossible situation and are given explicit or implicit orders to do things they are perhaps not sure of.

    You have to ask yourself, if I were twenty something and found myself in that position, how would I have reacted?

    To repeat, go see “Taxi to the Dark Side”. You might end up saying – and I am an atheist – there but for the grace of god go I.

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