An ugly game of chicken

It was certainly a frustrating afternoon when we learned that congressional Dems had effectively caved to White House demands and would move forward with a war spending bill with no timelines or meaningful benchmarks. Sixteen hours ago, this seemed like an awful move. Dems and Bush were engaged in a three-month-long game of chicken, and despite having the upper hand, it looked like Dems blinked.

I’ve had a chance to reflect on the negotiations and sleep on it. A half-day later, I’ve come to believe … the capitulation still stinks.

Congressional Democrats relented Tuesday on their insistence that a war spending measure set a date for withdrawing American combat troops from Iraq. Instead, they moved toward a deal with President Bush that would impose new conditions on the Iraqi government.

The decision to back down was a wrenching reversal for leading Democrats, who saw their election triumph in November as a call to force an end to the war. It was the first time since taking power in Congress that the Democrats had publicly agreed to allow a vote on war financing without a timetable for troop withdrawal. […]

Other Democrats said they had no choice. “It was a concession to reality,” said Representative James P. Moran, Democrat of Virginia, who said he intended to oppose the war spending portion of the bill.

No, I’m afraid it really wasn’t. There was a stand-off between two equally powerful parties — the White House said it wanted a blank check, Congress said it wanted a timeline for withdrawal. The “reality” was that the president could have backed down, but he knew that as the pressure increased, Dems would likely fold. He counted on it — and he was right.

There’s no great mystery here. Congressional leaders believed someone was going to get blamed if war funding didn’t pass, and they assumed it’d be them. CNN released a poll last week asking respondents, “Who do you think is MORE responsible for the fact that the U.S. troops currently in Iraq have not yet received additional funds: President Bush, because he vetoed the Iraq funding bill passed by Congress, OR, the Democrats in Congress, because they passed an Iraq funding bill that they knew Bush would veto?” A plurality, 44%, said Dems were more responsible. The poll appears to have made the rounds on the Hill, and Dems likely believed these numbers were going to get worse. So they folded.

Despite all of this, I’m still trying to be a find-the-silver-lining kind of guy (character flaw). There are a couple of reasonably encouraging points to consider.

It’s easy to forget, but in February, the notion of passing a spending bill with a withdrawal timeline — through both chambers — was by no means a sure thing. In fact, at the time, it seemed like a bit of a long-shot. Dem leaders resisted the veto threat, overcame White House demagoguery, picked up a few Republican votes, and passed it anyway. It was a fairly impressive display.

I’d also add that Dem leaders in the Senate are in a tougher spot than is generally realized. We can have a debate about whether Harry Reid would pursue a sufficiently vigorous progressive agenda with a 60-vote majority and with a Democratic president at the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, but those aren’t the circumstances we find ourselves in. Reid has a 51-seat majority, one of whom is physically unable to serve right now, and another of whom is Joe Lieberman. As a practical matter, that means the Senate Majority Leader is trying to exercise power with 49 votes, which is an inherently difficult task, particularly against constant Republican filibusters.

Indeed, as disappointed as I am about yesterday’s surrender, I believe that Dems need to show more backbone, but I also believe Republicans are to blame for all of this. We have a Republican president unwilling to negotiate and a Republican delegation, 99% of whom vote the way Bush tells them to. That’s not Harry Reid’s fault and it’s not Nancy Pelosi’s fault. Excelling in the face of filibusters they can’t break and vetoes they can’t override is inherently difficult.

We’ve actually made some progress in recent months. At the start of the year, a vote to end funding for the war was considered ridiculous. Last week, more than half the Dem caucus voted to do just that. The week before, 171 House Dems (including 12 Blue Dogs) voted for a near-total withdrawal of U.S. forces within nine months. In February, both of these seemed highly unlikely, if not impossible.

The reality is Dems forfeited yesterday, but there’s another game that hasn’t started yet. There’s going to be another fight over funding in the fall — which will give Dems a chance to make up for this failure. Now isn’t the time to throw up one’s arms in disgust, now is the time to gear up for round two.

Post Script: One final thought: Republicans may feel good about themselves given the Dems’ capitulation yesterday, but by standing behind a failed policy, they have nothing to brag about. By backing Bush, GOP lawmakers are making a disastrous war longer, increasing the threat of terrorism, and putting more American lives at risk. If they see this as a “victory,” they’ve lost sight of reality.

I am confused. Why should I support the Democratic Senators and Representatives at this point? The whole point of voting for the Dems was to make changes, not small moral victories. When it comes to the biggest ticket items of corruption and Iraq there is a lot of waffling and capitulation to people that spent the last 10-15 years taunting us, throwing sand in our faces, etc. and here we are like the battered wife crawling back saying “they can change” “next time he breaks my arm I SWEAR I’m going to do something about it”.

Fuck you Dems

  • Duck the Fems. In the words of Stephen Colbert, they are dead to me. And I am putting them on notice–I am not giving one red cent this election cycle to the DSCC, the DCCC, the DNC and/or any Dem who foolishly votes for the new bill on Iraq.

    Looks like I can afford that long awaited vacation to Greece this year! Thanks Dems! (I would take a vacation in the US, but I do not wish to drop any cash into the district of any Dem who capitulated and handed the remainder of his/her manhood/womanhood to Bush).

  • Don’t forget that the position of Congress was only as strong as the convictions of the 51st vote in the Senate and the 218th vote in the house.

    Those members were not gung ho on a time line. Those members were pretty close to the fence.

    If Reid and Pelosi could not count on those fence sitters then their position was fairly weak.

    Honestly, what could they have done when a majority of their members wanted to, or at least were willing to, fund the troops without the strings that the president objected to?

  • Ralph Nader was right. The Republicrats are all beholden to their Satanic corporate pay-masters. One World Government is firmly entrenched, this is obvious to anyone.

  • these democrats should remember that they will eventually stand for re-election. while i’m not about to vote for a republican, you can be damn sure i’m going to try to find someone with real cajones to run against them in the primaries.

    does anyone remember when clinton and the republicans locked horns and the republicans shut down the government over budget deadlocks. remember who got blamed? the republicans. i think the same would be true here, if the democrats just stuck to their guns.

  • Maybe the Dems need to lean on Lierberman to construct benchmarks HE’D support. Does Lieberman support ANY withdrawal under ANY circumstances?

    Can Lieberman talk to his future caucus members and come up with some kind of definition as to what success is? Right now, we are utterly rudderless. We’re staying for teh sake of staying. It’s frightfully expensive to finance a fighting force with no stated goal to achieve. Are ANY war supporters willing to say there is some minimum level of accomplishment that it is inexcusable not to manage? Can we not agree on SOMETHING we can call success even if it’s a poor definition in the public’s eye?

    How can our soldiers “complete the mission” and come home? Missions have GOALS. Will no one dare to define even the most pathetic victory so we can declare it and leave gracefully? Or is the occupation, itself, the goal? That would explain the unwillingness of the WH to declare it.

  • Come September, Petraeus will report the wonderful progress made in Iraq and how, another six months will be needed to secure Paradise. And then the whole process will be repeated and then, the Dems will fold again.

    The Dems won in November not because the DLC was brilliant. The Dems won because Americans were fed up with Bush, Cheney, the GOP, and their stinking Iraq war.

    By the way, with the latest price increases of oil, the value of oil under Iraq is now about twenty trillion dollars. Anyone think our government is going to walk away from that?

  • The Democratic majority is only as strong as its ability to garner enough support from the Republican side to override a presidential veto.

    Right now there are not enough Republicans who will cross the isle and support a veto override.

    Bush also has the luxury of not having to worry about re-election. He can veto and veto and veto without fear. In less than 2 years he retires. Congress on the other hand does not have that luxury. Re-election is always a part of any congress members equation. Like it or not.

    Sometimes, hell most times, you fight the battles you can win.

    Remember, it’s easy to piss and moan from the bleachers. When you are in the game you have to produce.

  • I think it’s unrealistic to expect Reid and Pelosi to work outside the current political reality. As Steve pointed out, the votes just aren’t there in the senate. However, it’s possible that if things don’t improve dramatically over the summer, the next time will be different. Really, the political atmosphere will be much different and the dems can then say, “See? We did it your way one last time. Now we’ll do it our way.” I think the public will support the dem position much more strongly then. Unlike bubba and others, I’m not ready to give up yet but I am disappointed. The dem leadership just has to find a way to avoid the “weak dems” meme. I’m not too confident about that, unfortunately.

  • I think that Smiley is correct in that the public supports the Democratic position. The only problem that I see is that there may still not be enough crossover from Republicans to override a Presidential veto.

  • i really don’t understand what this worry is about over-riding a veto. i’m not concerned about over-riding a veto. i don’t care if he signs or vetoes the bill. i just think the dems ought to stick to their guns and keep sending smart bills to bush over and over, and let him keep vetoing them. eventually HE will run out of time.

  • I support the Democrats for breaking the deadlock. What is needed are not timelines but rigid enforcement of benchmarks. Timelines are worthless anyway. They look nice on paper and in campaign statements but they’re completely unenforceable and as written in the original bill they were flexible and breakable.

    We need actual progress reporting that’s tied to the reconstruction budget. Not rubber-stamp budgeting like we had for the last four years, but budgets that reward progress and efficiency. Kinda like how we pay contractors.

    Then the next step is putting Iraq spending in the FY08 Defense Approps bill, instead of a supplemental. Tie the war in Iraq to overall defense. The Army wants a new weapons system? The Navy wants a new $11 billion aircraft carrier? Well, sorry – we’ll need to see some progress in Iraq first.

    After all, you go to war with the army you have, right?

  • I don’t like it, but as commenters #9 and #10 relate, we cannot reasonably and honestly hold the Dems accountable for this, as the votes just weren’t there. This is reality.

    But I shudder to think what I would have to say to those Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen who will die between now and the ‘next vote,’ wherein it will be highly likely that what should have happened now will happen then. Eventually, we will leave, and will have the Republican votes needed to override the Child in Chief’s veto.

    These brave souls will continue to die for Republican vanity and power, with some 30% of the country cheering it on from their couches.

  • Talk of presidential vetos and Republican crossovers is just more Democrat obfuscating bullshit. The country and the troops have been sold out by the Democrats.

  • Republicans may feel good about themselves given the Dems’ capitulation yesterday, but by standing behind a failed policy, they have nothing to brag about.

    I’m about as rabid a partisan as you’ll find, but I do think this is the salient point. Iraq II is the GOP’s war, and it isn’t going to end well.

    Now it’s a great thing that the Dems currently own the House and Senate, but (especially in the Senate) they do so by very narrow margins. They aren’t going to be able to run the government from this position, particularly in the face of a relatively unified opposition. What they can do is what they are doing – starting long-overdue oversight, forcing the GOP to cast revealing and unpopular votes, and stifling new Bush initiatives. But actually ending the war isn’t (and never was) something they’d be likely to pull off.

    Bear in mind it’s a long game we’re in, and for the Republicans, owning the war (as they now do) is a horrible, horrible burden. This war isn’t just grinding the armed forces down to nothing; it’s doing the same to the party associated with the war. The longstanding strength of the Republican brand, namely its image as being strong in security matters, is being destroyed, and with it goes any prospect of a return to power in the years and (hopefully) decades to come.

  • Nice spin and I like the optimism, but they flinched and flinched big. Turning it into a good thing for the future is all fine and good and the only thing we can do, but the truth is we look weak.

    Again.

  • The Democratic majority is only as strong as its ability to garner enough support from the Republican side to override a presidential veto.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong. The Dems can keep sending up funding bills (or not) and if Bush chooses to veto them, it is his fault there is no funding. I don’t understand why the Dems don’t understand this and are not shouting it into every camera and microphone.

    If Bush keeps vetoing bills, it is Bush who is shutting down the government. PERIOD

  • The fear of blame is either killing our political process, or an excuse to make the corporate war-machine happy.

    Fear is no way to run a country, or even play a game of billiards. One would hope LEADERS of our country would have enough spunk to not fear bullshit accusations that the water-carrier media will then spread.

    That timidity is NOT LOST on the consituents. They see it for the fear it really is, and as the weakness it is. Congratulations DNC…you just made George Bush look like a true winner for the first time in his life. He bet it all, he didn’t back down. The fearful constituents will equate that for power (not realizing, the very REASON he can play the game well is he had no problem doing whatever he wanted, no fear for the lives it might cost) and leadership, and there is no good side.

    Democracy has died in the US. Withered on the vine. It is no longer a democratic republic, no longer a representative government, there is no more right to free speech (except in zones, which means not at all), no right to peaceful assembly to redress wrongs, no right to fair and speedy trial, no right to demand that government be run faithful to the constitution, no speration of powers, no nothing. Democracy, is, dead. NOW. It’s not on it’s way out, we have literally NO POWER over our overlords.

    And they occasionally throw out some little bangle, shiny bead, to entrance us like “gay marriage” and “flag burning amendment” (how about an amendment that every day children recite parts of the constitution in school to start the day? or even an amendment stating that the Constitution is in full effect, and not “quaint”) so we all huddle around talking and arguing about that while they steal us blind of money, sons and daughters, rights, and morals.

    It isn’t “getting bad” it is the bottom. Right now.

  • just bill–exactly. At some point in time not long down the road this year, Bush would not have the funds to continue the war. The Dems could have kept saying “we have responsibly provided full funding, but with responsible, adult-like and realistic timelines, benchmarks and accountability measures. We have done so in X number of bills. But the president is acting like a spoiled little tyrant. If the president cannot accept responsibility then he should not be allowed to continue to put our soldiers’ lives at risk.”

  • #14

    Starting today, ‘These brave souls will continue to die for DEMOCRATIC vanity and power . . .’

  • There are three big problems with a lot of the analysis I am seeing.

    First, Reid and Pelosi did not face a binary “capitulate or not” choice. There were myriad policy options in the middle. Even if time was running short, we just assumed Bush would not flinch and that if anyone would have to it would be us. When that is your mindset, it is self-fulfilling, and when you project it so the other party at the table can read it, of course Bush will win this round. We make him stronger than he really is by being predictable, and by openly assuming he is “tough.” We could have kept sending him minor tweaks in the bill as time ran down and seen where his trade-off point between the small concessions and money running out really was. Bush never had to face that pressure.

    Second, we have completely blown the PR game. If we really felt the reality was constraining and we didn’t have the votes or the strength, we should never have drawn such bright lines in the sand. We bluffed big, and when we folded we now look weak and we get headlines like “Dems Give In,” which reinforce the worst stereotypes in the voters’ minds. Moreover, I have seen no evidence of a concerted effort to spin this as “we got better health care for vets, better equipment for troops, the attention New Orleans finally deserves, and for the first time the WH will have to report to Congress so we can provide proper oversight on Iraq.” Instead some of our own leaders were out in the past few days announcing that timelines were off the table; I wonder how capitulation became the headline?

    Third, we have two longer term problems that seem to be unaddressed. One is how we are remotely convincing – to our base or to the Rethugs – that when this same fight occurs this fall in the budget bill it will play out any differently. The other is that by appearing to lead to this “compromise” we now have partial ownership for the first time since Nov. 2006 of the fiasco. I think BushCo can spin this into “bipartisan” cover for his incompetence, blurring the lines enough to minimize our electoral advantage on Iraq.

    Even if you believe there were limits to what Dems would have accomplished on this issue, surely everyone can agree we could have handled it much, much better. Like Steve, stewing overnight has not lessened by frustration at all.

  • All funding legislation begins, by Constitutional definition, in the House of Representatives.

    Joe Lie has no power in the House of Representatives.

    It is time for Harry to walk over to the House side of the building, and do whatever it takes to get Pelosi to shut this damned war down. If they have to close down the entire freaking government, then so be it. Stop all monies. Stop DoJ. Stop DHS. Stop OVP. Just stop the blasted thing, shut it all down “tight as a drum,” and tell Bu$h to do something about it.

    This is “the pair of aces” that Dems still have up their sleeve—and it’s all they need to win the hand, the game, and the entire jackpot. Bu$h has nothing. He’s got a 2 of clubs, a 3 of hearts, a 6 and 8 of diamonds, and a 9 of spades. that’s it. Not even a ten. Two lousy diamonds, not even a pair at that, Dems with a pair of aces up their sleeve—and they FOLD?

    I agree with Colbert—“they are dead to me…..”

  • Winners and losers in politics – the reality of it all! Anyone who wishes us out of Iraq, and now will not support the Democrats efforts simply because they lost a battle in their effort to engage an out of control executive foreign policy is a political neophyt and needs to stay with this issue as it inches toward a better outcome than Mr. Bush could ever possibly give us. Yes the Dems folded, but their effort is not over. I think they need to hone better rhetoric to help the American people better discern the morass this Administration has gotten us into. I think the Dems need to high light more effectively how the Bush Administration disrespects our military personnel and institutional integrity. I think the Dems need to pick their game up a bit, but by golly people, give them hell Harrys we don’t have at this moment in our history! -Kevo

  • I don’t mind saying the Republicans own this war, but to do so we need to have them on the record as many times as possible. That means passing a few bills that outline exactly what the Republican position is. Pass a bill that gives everything but requires enforcable deadlines. Let the right rabbit on about “surrender”, pound them on the fact that they have clearly just voted for never ending war in Iraq and THEN send up this bill. But there needed to be at least one good vote and veto on a clean bill. Instead, we get this rollover and start counting the body bags that pile up while the Dems learn how to force votes that draw sharp distinctions on policy differences.

  • Fact is that no Dem in Congress or GOPista supports a “precipitous withdrawal” (in the words of shrub) from Iraq. The only was forward is an orderly redeployment out of that country.

    An orderly redeployment is only going to come with bi-partisan support. And the GOPista’s are just not there yet. So far they are doing what they have been told to do. For now they are firm.

    And if you think shrub is going to have a sudden bout of good conscious, decide to do the right thing and sign on to a redeployment plan, I’ve got a bridge for sale. No, shrub would rather that place burn to the ground first than to back down from his veto threat.

    So for now just keep hammering at shrub and his minnions. Round 2 is 4 months away when the whole funding issue starts over.

  • All we can do now is:

    (1) Throw your weight behind the 120+ house members who will vote against the blank check bill. Send angry e-mails to the ‘Yay’s

    (2) Show some gushing love for the Feingold wing of the Senate, who has promised to vote ‘Nay’ for the B.C. bill. Send rabid hate mail to the others.

  • At the end of the day, we need more than a slim paper majority to move against this president and his party. For Gawd’s sake, none of the normal rules of rational political behavior apply to Bush. He always does what he wants no matter what, he never backs down, he never bows to the obvious, his enablers always support him no matter what. Those are the political realities here.

    I’m with CB and Gustof on this: “Remember, it’s easy to piss and moan from the bleachers. When you are in the game you have to produce.”

    I hope all the posters above spend a few days venting (as I am and will)and then, instead of abandoning the only real alternative to reThug rule, work to make it better and numerically stronger.

  • “There’s going to be another fight over funding in the fall — which will give Dems a chance to make up for this failure.”

    The DEMOCRATS have effectively said that another 300 to 500 dead American troops are acceptable. That another 5,000 maimed is OK. They don’t mind it that 10,000 or more Iraqis will die before they start their next round of bullshit gamesmanship. The Republicans, at least, stick to their positions. It’s New Party time.

    George Wallace on the two major parties in 1968: “They ain’t a dimes wortha diff’rence b’tween ’em”

    Bill Maher: “The only difference between the Democrats and Republicans is that the Democrats have sold out to a SLIGHTLY less scary group of special interests.”

  • Once again, fear has won over reason. And the fear that continues to shape the debate comes from the joint venture between Al Qaeda and the asshole in the White House. Continuing the war in Iraq is a huge victory for “the terrorists.” It merely means that their fear tactics are working. Likewise for the republicans.

  • Well, I am a Cup-Is-Half-Full kind of guy, too. And this is my take on this:

    The dems have extremely thin majority margins in both houses. If we didn’t have those majorities, we wouldn’t be have all the oversight that we are getting right now. The process has barely started and look at all the dirt that has come out already. By Fall, the dems will clearly be on the higher moral ground and will be able to wield their majority with more power.

    It is just too soon to expect major changes. But they are a-coming.

  • No winners today. Only losers. Dems have no iron. Repubs have no sense of reality. Lieberman is an utter douchebag (and fuck those assholes in the DLC/DSCC who didn’t support Lamont which helped create this mess..) The worst of all is that the little people, mostly the Military folks and their loved ones will suffer. And this fucking farce will continue.

    They should have kept sending in the same goddamned bill. It’s not like they’re using American money to fund the war. They’re using CHINA’s.

    Russ Feingold is the man. He stood up while the rest of them fled. Too bad Russ isn’t running.

  • Good writeup, CB.

    I agree there’s a lot to be sad about, but we have made progress and Rome wasn’t built in a day. The public knows which party is dragging out the disaster, and when they get another shot at the Republicans it will not be pretty. It’s sad to say, but the deaths of more troops may be required for the American people to fully realize which party is killing Americans, and what they will have to do to stop that.

  • Right on, Ohioan

    All this analysis is BS. WE’VE BEEN SOLD OUT! I’ve contacted my Dem Congressman, both Dem Senators and Nancy. It’s not just the GOP pols who are sacrificing the lives and limbs of others for personal political advantage.

  • I’m glad to hear some people (#24, #28, #33 and others) look forward to the next battle instead of simply surrendering due to one (admittedly horrible and embarrassing) loss. If the term ‘Defeat-o-crat’ applies at all, it falls equally at times not only on the spineless members of Congress but also on their supporters who throw up their hands and go home at the first sign of trouble. We have to be smarter than that. #27 gave us a good path to follow.

    One point to make: #29: “The DEMOCRATS have effectively said that another 300 to 500 dead American troops are acceptable.”

    Keep in mind that the original withdrawal bill didn’t start any troop withdrawals until October. If this bill gets redebated in the fall, and if we have a stronger position the timelines could be bumped forward with little loss. I have my doubts that this will happen, but I’m not ready to cede the country to the fascists just yet.

  • Republicans are to blame for this.

    Republicans in Congress spent 6 years giving Bush everydamn thing he wanted with no questionsasked and, pretty much gave up oversight without so much as a wimper. If people think Democrats are wimps look at the GOP Congress during the Bush administration to see a group of totally spineless fools. Bush and Rove know that the GOP Congresscritters can be counted on to do what they are told like good little lemmings/zombies and that Democrats don’t have the numbers to make things veto proof on their own. Democratic unitly is good but it doesn mean shit without the numbers or without some GOP Congresscritters acting like grown ups. The GOP controlled Congress gave away their power and authority and GOP Congresscritters don’t seem to mind. They seem intent on continuing their old ways of bowing to authority i.e. the White House.

  • Yes, the Senate Dems didn’t have the votes they needed. But one of the reasons for that is that they didn’t support their candidate for the Senate in Connecticut last year. Is there any doubt that Ned Lamont would be on the side of the angels in this? Joe Lieberman undermines the power of the Senate majority. The blogosphere knew this. The Democratic primary voters in Connecticut knew this. Hell, the Republican general election voters knew this too, that’s why they voted for him. So why didn’t Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer catch the snap?

  • There IS no silver lining. The Dems could have EASILY ended the war: refuse to fund it.

    They caved.

    More of our soldiers will die. Dems are now co-sponsors of the slaughter. The 70% of us who want the war ended are being defied by both parties.

    Bush will escalate the war, bringing to Vietnam proportions. The war will last years, perhaps more than a decade, before we withdraw, having lost Iraq the day we invaded them in 2002.

    The vast majority of us—nearly 70%—have NO MEANINGFUL representation in the federal government.

    The writing is on the wall. If we want the war to end, WE THE PEOPLE need to end it. Period.

  • I agree, this sucks…
    …but something tells me this is the last stand of George W. Bush.

    There will be no more legislative victories, only subpoenas, investigations, and impeachment. Reid and Pelosi have held the caucus together in rather amazing fashion under the circumstances, and they do not like this guy at all. This is a tactical loss, but the thunder is relentlessly rolling in on this administration.

    I have no answer for the 500 families of dead US soldiers coming in the next 4-6 months, but that only burns into my brain again what the stakes are here.

    I’m not being naive or optimistic. Ste back and look at the big picture. Believe it: Bush has nothing left.

  • Look at all of the frustration in these comments.
    So, perhaps we should abandon the Dems & vote for Ralph Nader.
    Oh, wait….

    The reality is that the Repubs OWN the majority of all media. If they didn’t, this “president” would have beeen history long ago. Hell, he would not have been able to steal the 2000 election without the help of the media.In this situation, the Dems WOULD be blamed, because that is the drumbeat that the media would produce.

    Somebody tell me that I’m wrong, and why.

  • The Democrats had a clear choice: stand with the people or stand with the President. The chose the later, and the the former will stop supporting them.

    I would rather see a strong block of Democrats opposed to the war, standing with the people, and loosing the vote than this capitulation. Lieberman and the Blue Dogs can jump sides, who cares. On election day, the people will know who stood by them.

    Unfortunately, no one stood for the people. Corporate greed won the day again in Washington. Unless something dramatic changes, expect extremely low turnouts in 2008 and a little red truck at the white house.

    Some things are not worth the compromise, and the further wasting of our soldiers lives is one of those things.

    I have lost all faith that the Democrats would do the right thing. Better to try and fail than to give up.

  • BuzzMon,

    I have no doubt the media would beat those drums. Are you saying it’s better to be wrong than condemned by the media?

    Don’t you think the media is going to hand it to the Democrats no matter what they do? So why not be damned for doing the right thing? Now they just look like a bunch of cowards. I’m sure many a bigwig had a fat cigar and a hearty laugh at the ol’ Dumbocrats last night.

    Why do people perceive the Democrats as weak? Is it the media, or reality?

    So, perhaps we should abandon the Dems & vote for Ralph Nader.

    Perhaps the Democrats should not abandon the people.

  • The Republicans vociferously supported the war and used the power of the federal government to enrich themselves and their donors.

    The Democrats somewhat more grudgingly have agreed to continue to funding the war, and are rapidly reneging on their campaign promises to “drain the swamp” of institutionalized and accepted corruption in Congress.

    I get that there’s a difference between the two parties. I really do. I just don’t *see* much difference right now, other than the somewhat greater likelihood of Democrats to say things I’d agree with.

    Sadly, I think Tom Joad #19 is correct: our democracy no longer exists in any meaningful way. We’re a corrupt empire, and barring some as-now unforseeable change, we’re well on the path to our own destruction as a civilization.

  • What is the difference between a Republican majority and a slim Democratic majority? Apparently none except the chatter and posturing. Chatter and posturing are worthless.

  • NOTHING IS LOST — YET!

    The bill has yet to be voted on. A loss comes when the bill passes and Bush signs it. If, as Nancy Pelosi herself said, that she cannot even vore for it, I’m sure many other Dems will say the same thing.

    This could be a PR triumph and a Dem victory if the bill goes down in defeat in both chambers. Ohioan is right … now’s the time for us to let our Congresspeople know we don’t approve. If this bill does not pass, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi can then tell the White House it’s version of funding won’t pass muster and a compromise must be achieved. This may be a masterstroke of political gamesmanship if the Dems play their cards right and take down the bill during voting.

    I’m hoping that when the big vote comes, the Dems don’t flinch

  • I’m hoping that there is a larger strategy here that giving in will enable in the longer term. We’ve got to stop thinking in terms of “win” or “lose” based on cajones alone. That’s what got us into the mess in Iraq and why we can’t pull out (because we would “lose” by macho standards). “Losing” the vote on this bill can be a winning strategy, albeit a less obvious one, if it serves as a foil for what is truly evil.

    The ultimate battle is to hold W accountable. We are doing that in so many other ways right now. I’m not happy that my son will be going to Iraq in Feb ’08 and would prefer that it all ends before then, but the fight for the life of our democracy is bigger than Iraq.

  • Politically, I’m very close to the center, and I’m still appalled at the Democrats’ gutlessness. They’re claiming “political reality” as their excuse to join six years of Republican rubber-stamping.

    Here’s reality:

    George Bush and his Republicans knowingly pursued “aggressive war” against a nation that had not threatened us, violating the Kellogg-Briand Treaty we midwifed, and the reason WE hanged several Nazis at Nuremburg.

    The president invaded a sovereign nation on false pretenses for his personal motives. That nation never formally surrendered to us or to the Coalition he bribed to give him the thinnest veneer of credibility.

    Even before the invasion and its aftermath, the administration had no realistic plan of action. In the name of “liberation” we have slaughtered tens of thousands of the “liberated” and turned their country into a nightmare of violence and danger that exceeds the horror of the previous regime. And in the overall commission of this unwarranted invasion and occupation, the administration has, at minimum, failed to significantly pursue and combat al queda (who did attack us), arrogantly destroy longstanding alliances, waste billions of taxpayer dollars, squander billions more in graft, corruption and incompetence, and methodically grind down the most powerful army on earth.

    Faced with the evidence of the above to date, the administration has blatantly expanded its imaginary war in the middle of the growing civil war spawned by the invasion that risks spilling over into the entire Middle East. In addition, the administration has taken a belligerent stance against Iran, which its invasion of Iraq made — overnight — one of the two most powerful and influential nations in the region.

    The whole world stood by America on September 11, 2001. But since then, we have become globally hated. The administration compounded al queda’s damage tenfold, by secretly spying on American citizens and ignoring the Constitution and rule of law.

    America has become a land of fear, distrusted and disrespected by the rest of the world and by many of its own citizens. In November of last year, a majority of voters registered their opposition to the leadership and direction of the nation at the ballot box. A new congress took control, and has done exactly nothing.

    The spending bill is one thing. Demanding accountability and justice is something else. We whine about the mainstream media not reporting certain stories. What we really want is the mainstream media to make a partisan political argument for us.

    It’s our representatives who should be making the argument, who should be taking action. If the Democrats can’t get past a veto, so be it. But they can investigate. They can lift the rock to expose this worst of all administrations. And if they meet resistance, they can subpoena and impeach. If Republican lawmakers won’t cooperate, they will identify themselves as co-conspirators.

    While we count majority margins in congress, we should remember that the Bush administration lost its majority of public support long ago. And we should remember that the administration is becoming even more corrupt, arrogant and dangerous — with many months left to make matters worse than we can imagine.

    What does it take? Cheney presiding over the Senate for a formal “Go fuck yourself” to the Democrats and the nation?

    To me, the war spending bill is small change. This administration needs to be called out, to be indicted. It’s not a game. We and our children have a right — still — to live in the nation of the Founding Fathers. George Bush is revising our form of government. All that came before 9/11 is being forgotten. We and our representatives — Democrat and Republican — are letting it happen without a peep.

    When a substantial majority of the citizens wants something to happen or not happen, and the leaders of the country are either opposed, powerless, or unwilling there is something terribly wrong that needs to be corrected.

  • Doubtful, I can’t disagree with you. I just want to remind eveyone about an abrupt abandonment of the Dems because of this.
    I live in Florida. I was purged from the voter rolls prior to the 2000 election. I believe that Al Gore actually did get more votes in Florida in 2000, but the story was buried and/or obfcusated enough for the Bush crime family to steal it.
    Did anyone see coverage of the protests in D.C. for Bush’s inauguration prior to seeing “Farenheit 9/11”? This is the power of the media in action.
    In reality, the Dems ARE weak. They have a crippled (Lieberman) razor thin majority in the Senate. They are under constant attack from the media. They don’t punish their own for not submitting to the cult-like authority figure like the Repubs do.
    So, as much as I hate this action (like everyone else in here does), I am going to trust their judgment on this. I have to, because I’ve seen what a few hundred people voting for Nader did in 2000.
    But, God, does it stink!

  • BuzzMon–just because I choose to withhold my $$$ from Dems and Dem groups at this time does not mean I will not eventually vote Dem in the upcoming election. Many of us here understand the concept of the lesser of two evils. However, I believe that there should be some accountability for the Dems and their big fold on this. About the only method I have to show that accountability is to withhold my contributions. Money talks. Period. Dems claim to be all about accountability, so they should understand.

    Alibubba, word.

  • All of you idiots who failed Arithmetic 1 and slept through Politics 101 are a frickin’ embarassment. Go vote Green or grow the fuck up.

    Carpetbagger has it right when he says: “Now isn’t the time to throw up one’s arms in disgust, now is the time to gear up for round two.”

    You cannot force an agressive strategy where you do not have the votes to override a filibuster or cancel a veto.

    As with any guerilla force (and that’s what the Democrats in Congress are right now), you do not expend your force on emotionally-satisfying useless efforts that result in the destruction of your force. Sending the same bill back and getting it vetoed again would only result in the destruction of party unity that has been achieved (an event of historic importance, since getting unity from Democrats – as demonstrated here – is “like herding a swarm of bees through a blizzard with a switch”) since the Blue Dogs would then do the “responsible” thing and break with the party to vote with the Republicans to provide a “clean bill.” In case you political-purist morons forgot, there are other fights to be fought here, and we can’t afford that!!!

    As a party, they have gained strength. You don’t throw that away on a fight that can’t be won.

    Most of you would have thrown up your hands over Washington’s failure to fight the British more militantly. Which shows how little you know about what you claim to be obsessed over.

    There’s a reason the term “infantile leftist” came into existence.

  • No thanks, Tom. But I will cast my vote for Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich in 2008, even if it’s a write-in. Because I want a leader who will stand up for our Constitution (and not big-monied totalitarians) before it is too late.

  • 9/11 did not mean we had to change our system of government which is what has happened. The Military Commissions Act has not gained us anything nor has the Patriot act it just took away our freedoms. The war profiteers feel they own the country that’s why the war is so expensive. They might as well just bring the troops home and just tax the hell out of us because it will amount to the same thing. Just throw money at them. War patriotism is blackmailing the country out of money and blood. What choice do we have at this point. The dems couldn’t get enough support to stop the funding…for now. But I’m committed to do anything I can to help stop this occupation ‘splurge’. It didn’t stop now but I for one will overcome my disappointment and just keep trying. What else can we do?

  • Also, what kind of loaded poll question is this: “Who do you think is MORE responsible for the fact that the U.S. troops currently in Iraq have not yet received additional funds: President Bush, because he vetoed the Iraq funding bill passed by Congress, OR, the Democrats in Congress, because they passed an Iraq funding bill that they knew Bush would veto?”

    A much more balanced question would be: “Who do you think is MORE responsible for the fact that the U.S. troops currently in Iraq have not yet received additional funds: President Bush, because he will veto any Iraq funding bill passed by Congress that contains even minor restrictions or measures for accountability, OR, the Democrats in Congress, because they passed an Iraq funding bill that they knew Bush would veto?”

  • Not today, Tommy boy—not today. So long as Dems hold the ability to direct what does—and does not—come to the floor for a vote, then Dems hold the key to shutting down the war. Seems you might benefit from revisiting that Poli-Sci 101 course yourself. It doesn’t even have to go as far as Pelosi; the subcommittee can quash the bill—right there in the committee room.

    One would think that the Blue Dogs would be all over this thing, if only to support the army that’s getting chewed up in a bar brawl while the real “war” is double-parked in Afghanistan. Redeployment is not “surrendering to the enemy;” it is turning the line to engage the enemy head-on, rather than playing “footsie….”

  • you know tom cleaver, i’m really getting tired of your “holier than thou, i’m smarter and i know better so i’m going to call you all childish names” crap.

  • Rant,

    Bill Maher: “The only difference between the Democrats and Republicans is that the Democrats have sold out to a SLIGHTLY less scary group of special interests.”

    you and Bill Maher have it wrong. If Gore was president, 9/11 may not have happened and he definitely would not have invaded Iraq. So, if you want to start throwing blame around for the thousands dead and tens of thousands injured in Iraq, start with W and his PNAC buddies and finish with Nadar and the those who supported him in 2000. There is a difference between the parties. Perhaps not as great a difference as many of us would like, but Iraq is a clear and critical difference.

  • Most of you would have thrown up your hands over Washington’s failure to fight the British more militantly. -Tom Cleaver

    Well, George Washington wanted to attack the British foolishly several times. If it weren’t for the good sense of Nathanael Greene, Henry Knox, and many other generals Washington would’ve suffered a hearty defeat in Boston and the Revolution would’ve been lost.

    But Washington was vastly outnumbered and his army was beset by illness. If you’re making the comparison that foolhardy Democrats are like an overzealous Washington reigned in by the more level headed around him, can you explain how the Democrats in congress are like a decimated Continental army?

    Last I checked, they had a majority, even if a slim one, and the only illness that afflicts them is their own creation. Even more important, they have the backing of the American people.

  • They’re not a decimated Continental army, but right now they are outnumbered, and not just from the people on the other side of the aisle in the two respective houses.

    Right now, they do not have the power or the traction to get their side of the story told in the media. What it’s going to take to change that – past winning big in 2008 and reinstating the Fairness Doctrine, I don’t know. For starters, they’ve got to find people who can at least present well, and at the moment we don’t have that.

    Because the other side gets to tell the story and define the issue, they have to protect the base they have – the little bit of party discipline that they have managed to create. Right now, it’s better for them to let the antiwar left choose to vote against the coming bill, which is not a “defection,” than to have the moderates team with the Republicans to “act responsibly” against the leadership. It’s a matter of internal perception, but it’s important.

    And yes, we should be thinking more like Nathaniel Greene than George Washington. It was Greene’s “loss” of the Southern campaign in 1781-82 that led to Yorktown.

    And don’t get the idea that I like making this argument. I think it’s pretty clear here that my reputation is that of someone who’d like to stick a .44 Magnum down the throat of every Republican I ever meet and pull the trigger with a smile on my face. I hate that we can’t do more, but I am also unwilling to throw away a future “.44 opportunity” for a guaranteed defeat now.

  • >i>you know tom cleaver, i’m really getting tired of your “holier than thou, i’m smarter and i know better so i’m going to call you all childish names” crap.

    Given that I won the three campaigns I was involved in, I think I am smart enough to know what I am talking about. Most of you (at least with today’s posts) remind me of the idiots who 40 years ago managed to destroy the antiwar movement with their “more militant than thou” policies.

    If you don’t like that, you have me confused with someone who gives a rat’s patootie.

  • “I think it’s pretty clear here that my reputation is that of someone who’d like to stick a .44 Magnum down the throat of every Republican I ever meet and pull the trigger with a smile on my face.”

    — Tom Cleaver

    So, THAT’s how you won those three campaigns!

  • Dems cannot merely sit back and await the reinforcement of a big win in ’08. The fight is here and now, and the longer they concede to the administration, the more talking points they hand the GOP. How many days has it been since Pelosi and Reid stood before the media and declared that they wold not cave in the “the blank-check policies” of the WH?

    When a minority defeats a majority, it is emboldened by the victory. When that minority is thus emboldened, it is less likely to seek compromise with its opponent—and will fight on with a renewed tenacity. Now that Dems have surrendered the momentum, why should any contingent of the GOP desire compromise? This was the golden moment for Dems to break out of the hedgerows, and do some serious, open-field blitzkrieging. But instead of wolves, they’re now in the limelight—as poodles.

    And the poodles shall yammer and yip, while more soldiers die in an unjust war—and the boastful stand upon their pedestals of self-annointed importance, noting to the four winds the number of “campaigns they’ve won.” Those winds care not in the least whether it was “3 campaigns” or “3 thousand;” they merely bear witness to the rumor of war, and the bloody stench of the dead. If saying “no” is a “more militant than thou” benchmark, then I’m DAMNED PROUD to possess the courage to be more militant than some who would counsel the appeasement of the crocodile….

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