As of now, the GOP frontrunner is … to be determined

January 20, 2008

It’s tempting to think that John McCain is finally where he wants to be in the race for the Republican presidential nomination. After all, he now has impressive wins in New Hampshire and South Carolina under his belt. He fared poorly in Nevada, but the GOP field didn’t take the contest seriously, and McCain never tried to compete there.

There is, of course, a flip-side to McCain’s good news. His win over Mike Huckabee in South Carolina was important, but instead of dispelling concerns about McCain’s long-term chances, the results actually reinforced them.

[S]o far he has benefited from a campaign calendar that could not have been better tailored to his political needs. His first two victories came in New Hampshire and South Carolina, where independents, who often seem more enthusiastic about Mr. McCain than members of his party do, are permitted to vote in the primaries.

The terrain from here is markedly different, starting Jan. 29 in Florida, where the Republican primary is open only to Republicans.

“He still has significant skepticism that he has to overcome in the Republican base,” said Gary L. Bauer, who sought the Republican presidential nomination in 2000 and is not endorsing anyone at this time. “The real test will be how well he can secure the Republican base as we head toward Super Tuesday.” Mr. Bauer added, “On balance, in most states, to get the nomination you’ve got to do very well among registered Republicans, and that is going to become increasingly important as other candidates drop out of the race.”

An exit poll in South Carolina offered evidence of the challenge Mr. McCain faces: 8 in 10 of the voters in the primary described themselves as Republicans, and just 3 in 10 of them voted for Mr. McCain. The finding suggests what Mr. McCain’s rivals were saying Saturday night: that he might not have won without the help of voters outside his party.

It’s a trend that may hurt McCain very soon — Florida’s primary in nine days away, and it doesn’t allow independents to vote, and several delegate-rich Feb. 5 states (Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, and New York) also limit the Republican primaries to Republican voters.

So, looking ahead, who’s winning?

It’s easier to identify who’s losing. Indeed, if yesterday served any key purpose, it was helping narrow the Republican field. Duncan Hunter dropped out last night, and Fred Thompson, who was betting his campaign on South Carolina, appears to be moving in the same direction. (A senior campaign adviser to Thompson conceded, “We are not blind to the obvious.”) That winnows the field from seven to five.

Mike Huckabee needed South Carolina badly to generate some sense of momentum and give his lagging fundraising a boost, but he came up short, and may not have any more chances. Rudy Giuliani has quickly become the contest’s biggest joke. Ron Paul still appears to have no realistic chance of winning a single contest.

And that leaves us with two candidates: John McCain and Mitt Romney. The latter, the Romney campaign is quick to remind us, won more delegates yesterday than the prior. (For the year, it’s not even close — Romney has nearly twice as many delegates as McCain so far.)

For much of the week, I assumed that a McCain victory in South Carolina would be awful news for Romney, who wanted a Huckabee or Thompson victory to keep the contest muddled. But reassessing the contest now, I see a definite up-side for Romney — it looks like a two-man race. Romney can tell everyone in the Republican base and establishment who loathes McCain — and that’s a big group — that he’s the only thing standing between them a McCain nomination.

In a wooly contest with an ambiguous top tier, Limbaugh, DeLay, the religious right, and far-right blogs all expressed their contempt for McCain, but they divided their loyalties in a wide-open field. Now, they have a choice — and an opportunity to do something about it.

The media will quickly declare McCain yesterday’s big winner, and re-label him the frontrunner. Indeed, it’s already started. Howard Fineman argued last night that “there is no longer any strong candidate in the race” to oppose McCain. Given that Romney still has the big delegate lead, McCain still isn’t connecting with Republicans, there are very few open primaries left, and the anti-McCain factions in the party are now poised to coalesce around the guy who’s actually in the lead, this analysis seems rather flawed.

Stay tuned.

“… His first two victories came in New Hampshire and South Carolina, where independents, who often seem more enthusiastic about Mr. McCain than members of his party do, are permitted to vote….”

Independents favor McCain. Why, I don’t know; he’s as Republican as they come. Unlike Ike, a truly military hero who couldn’t make up his mind about party affilication, McCain will kiss anyone’s butt as long as that butt votes GOP. Think of him smooching Bush, whose stooge Rove had just smeared him.

A whopping number of independents also love Obama. In his case I think it’s because he represents a change from “politics as usual”, something the GOP has taught us to hate ever since Reagan. A similar chord was struck when Oprah came out for Obama. Those same politics-weary and -wary independents universally loathe Hillary.

Bottom line: no matter how well Hillary does in Democratic primaries, largely due to the organizational legacy left her by Bill, we’re not going to win this November without a major chunk of those independents. And Hillary could drive all those people toward McCain.

  • On the McCain front, note that he actually fared worse in critical respects than in 2000–he lost support from self-described conservatives (26%, down from 29% in 2000), veterans (37%, down from 48% in 2000), and was carried by liberals and moderates.

    The good news is that it appears plenty of Repubs will have a reason to stay home no matter who wins.

  • The reaction to McCain is really strange. I sort of understand why conservatives don’t like him, but simply being disliked by conservatives does not make one a moderate. Not only are independents voting for him more than makes sense, McCain has been receiving a fair number of votes from opponents of the war.

    Unless Giuliani can win something quickly, it looks like this can turn into essentially a two way race between McCain and Romney, with Huckabee pulling off some votes from the evangelical voters. A major question will be whether the Republican establishment really unifies around Romney.

  • Of course Ron Paul is still a ‘longshot’. This is due to the media censorship. FOX NEWS is the great shepherd of the sheeple even kept him out of a debate.. Romney, McCain and the Huckster are nothing more than a war mongering jackels who would keep us in Iraq for 100 years. They all want to stay in Iraq protecting “our oil” sending more of our young people to their deaths in the pursuit while their own sons live high on the hog in their Dads mansion. All the Republican candidates except Dr. Paul are sly snakes trying to slither into the oval office. The sad thing is all of them steal Ron Pauls talking points about ending the IRS and going back to the constitution but the sheeple that support them and vote them into office are to stupid to see it.

  • Read the right-wing blogs, listen to right-wing talk radio and see how disliked (even hated) McCain is among most of them. If he should get the nomination, we could very well see a right-wing breakaway third party (like Strom Thurmond in 48).

  • Not to worry. Unless the GOP dumps the UN, WTO, NAFTA, CAFTA, CFR and similar they are finished as a party. It is unfortunate that the democratic party holds dearly to these same institutions. This will be their undoing as well. It will be a RP write in if necessary.

  • Don’t write off Huck so quickly he finished a close second to McCain in SC. If Thompson drops out, I would expect Huck to pick up much of his support. In closed primaries I think that Huck could sweep the South and the plains states, and perhaps even the big prize of Texas.

    Romney won’t do well in evangelical country, and support for McCain is shaky among registered Republicans.

  • I think McCain is such a fascist, it would be bad to have him as the nominee just because of the things he’d use the stump to say.

    Maybe I’m wrong, and his dishonest record would be effectively used against him. Maybe it is a good idea for our people to “raid” and vote for McCain in Republican contests.

    But my recommendation is that it would be better to run against Romney, even if he may seem like he’s the one who’s better with people / more charismatic / more comfortable in his skin.

  • Given that Romney still has the big delegate lead, McCain still isn’t connecting with Republicans, there are very few open primaries left, and the anti-McCain factions in the party are now poised to coalesce around the guy who’s actually in the lead, this analysis seems rather flawed.

    Isn’t this akin to pointing at people in wheel chairs with a mental defect and laughing at them? I mean, aren’t people like Mr. Fineman “challenged,” and to be admired for being able to what little they can?

    /snark

  • Romney is saner than McCain, so it would be better if McCain was allowed less close to the White House, and not even get the nomination.

    Also it’ll ward off the fascists by showing them a public repudiation of one of their snake-oil salesmen. It’ll make them less confident in their delusion that America is actually behind them.

  • “…being able to do what little they can?”

    Memo to self: use the preview function, dummy!

  • Who has the resources to continue the fight? Out of what is now likely a five-man field, the choice comes down to Mittens, followed by the Anything-For-A-Buck-Bombers over at “Herr Oberst Von Paul dot com.”

    Who will “Das Base” show preference for, if Indies are taken out of the formula? No doubt about it on this one; it’s going to be pHuckabee, followed by Mittens.

    Who can carry the vote in states where Indies can’t vote and “the Legions of Wingnuttia” aren’t strong enough to play the God-or-Die card? Mittens looks like the winner in this one, as well.

    That’s two “firsts” and a “second” for Mittens, in a party that’s strangling in the choke-hold of Wingnuttia. A lot of those fundie-types will not support a Mormon—period. They’ll stay home on Election day rather than support what they deem to be a heretic. Religions work that way—or haven’t you looked at why Sunnis hate Shiites with such a passion?

    McCain lacks the resources; he’s slandered Wingnuttia’s icons and changed religions for political purposes; he’s openly revolted against the neocon mainstream. McCain’s not going anywhere.

    Ghouliani is a walking corpse—“Dead Man Walking.” It’s only a matter of time for him.

    Hunter just bowed out.

    UnAware Fred is finally becoming aware—that he’s a loser.

    Von Paul’s “money-bombs” can’t buy enough make-up to conceal his…shall we say…”ultra-Right connections.”

    And pHuckabee cannot carry enough votes outside the Bible-thumping cave-dweller community to win. The Indie vote in SC shows that—and it’ll reflect poorly against him if the field stays stretched out, diluting votes and forcing a brokered convention.

    What’s left?

    Mittens….

  • There’s a weird syndrome going on in the Republican primaries. The top guys aren’t just swapping spots in the top three, they’ll win one state and get a fourth or fifth place in the next primary. Different regions in the US seem to be wholesale rejecting the candidate that is favored in others. Rove was allegedly very good at micro-targeting segments of Republican voters to increase he chances of a win. The Republicans seem to be micro-fracturing in this primary season. Eadie had a great comment – “plenty of Repubs will have a reason to stay home no matter who wins.” That seems to be very, very true this election.

  • The only Republican that can be elected by the Republican party this election cycle is being treated like the red haired stepchild, Dr. Ron Paul. You remember him don’t you, the man who said he gets his marching orders from the Constitution? Lets look at the other Republican candidates. Two are on Judicial Watch’s top ten list of the most corrupt politicians along with two Democrats. The list includes Huckabee, Rudy, Obama and Hillary. The Huckster is Hillary’s “puppet” candidate. He is financed and propelled by Hillary cronies. His campaign did not need donations when the main stream media Clinton lovers were willing to propel him with free air time. He will be destroyed if he is the nominee. He has influenced the parole board to free a murderer and rapist against the pleas of the victim, he covered up the brutal murder of a dog committed by his son, Vick is in jail for the same type of animal cruelty, he had numerous ethical violations, taking questionable money and gifts while in office, even 50% off at Wendy’s. (Is that how he got so fat?) He has made remarks about gays and AIDS victims, Ryan White’s mother will be paraded out if he is the nominee, he destroyed state owned computers when he left office to cover up his corrupt activities. (They will find a hard-drive.) No need to elaborate, Huckster will be toast. Rudy has lost momentum but his positions are more like Hillary’s and in the end his past will haunt him as well. He used state funds to guard his girlfriend while mayor and had questionable dealings with unsavory characters, including a pedophile priest. Keating Five Asian bashing McCain will not beat Hillary because of his hundred year war statement and the pompous war hero routine when in fact he singlehandedly stopped the effort to find the MIA’s in Vietnam. He sealed documents that would expose him to have cooperated with the Vietnamese in making propaganda tapes like Jane Fonda. He is not loved by the military and the vets, that honor goes to Dr. Ron Paul. Thomson is not conservative enough, his record on the Second Amendment is not conservative. He is more like a Democrat and can not win because he is out of money and has never taken this election seriously. He ran to dilute the field. Romney was caught in St. Petersburg having his supporters stuff ballots at a straw poll, I believe his “win” in Nevada was achieved the same way. They were caught on film and his twenty supporters generated over eight hundred votes. Romney has his own money, so he wont go broke, but is out of his league when it comes to running a country. He was asked about when he would go to war and he answered that he would ask his lawyers. He sounds like a Democrat with health care plans and is a neocon War Monger. The two endeavors will bankrupt the nation that is already trillions in debt. We may have to learn how to speak Chinese. The only hope for the Republican party is Ron Paul. He will be our next president as a Republican or as a no party candidate. Dr. Paul has identified the problems facing America. The not so Federal Reserve corporate bankers have hijacked our monetary system, printing money out of thin air and charging us, the taxpayer interest on it, a scheme that will never allow this country to get out of debt. We need a competing currency to save us from a financial collapse. We have lost our civil liberties with the Patriot Act and the War Commission Act. Dr. Paul is the only candidate that will restore them. Dr. Paul will end the War on Drugs that disproportionately target minorities and the poor. The fundamental principals of law, that a crime is an act that harms the life, liberty or property of another, has been ignored. We are imprisoning individuals that have merely possessed a substance. Then to add to the injustice these non violent prisoners are working as slave labor in prison factories. Our government has used an unjust law for a cheap labor workforce. Prison factories turn out everything from military gear to fashion jeans. Dr. Paul is the only candidate that will stop this injustice. He is the only candidate that will end the War now and bring our troops home from all over the world, as over 60% of Americans want. Ron Paul will win the hearts and minds of the American people. The world is looking at us and approves of Dr. Paul. The international press, free of our propaganda, views Dr. Paul as the Statesman that he is. He is not bought and sold by special interest like all of the other CFR candidates. His brilliant mind and steady hand is what the world needs now. This is not just an election. We are at a pivotal point in our history. We are asking ourselves if we want to be a free sovereign nation and if that answer is yes, you can only vote for Dr. Paul. The message of liberty is a strong one. If the Republicans do not embrace Dr. Paul, they have no other hope.

  • I think the rebublicans should nominate McCain if they want to win against Hillary (IF she’s the democratic nominee). Independents are going to tilt this election. I’m one, and I’ll tell you right now, this is how I’ll vote:
    Any republican vs. Obama: Obama
    McCain vs. Hillary: McCain
    Giuliani vs. Hillary: This is very close because they’re both corrupt and I dislike them both, so I’m gonna say Hillary because the part about him I really can’t stomach is the pro-torture, pro-government secrecy, and nepotism/loyalty aspects of him.
    Romney vs. Hillary: Romney
    Huckabee vs. Hillary: Hillary.

    Every other independent I’ve spoken to says Obama or McCain, and the more moderate democrats also.

  • as for ron paul: the guy has a history of racism that is very very creepy and disgusting. The only reason this hasn’t come out is because the media isn’t paying attention to him. For all you Ron Paul supporters who aren’t aware of this, go research it.

  • Note to the Paulites:

    1. Your guy’s a bigot.

    2. He has a snowball’s chance in a supernova of getting the GOP nomination. And no, it’s not on account of a media blackout; it’s because the Republican Party isn’t about to disown their war.

    3. Learn about paragraphs if you want me to plow through your rants.

  • Is it just me or do the Ron Paul groupies have a bizarre resemblance to Lyndon LaRouche’s followers? Both groups treat deeply flawed men as modern day messiahs. I just don’t get it.

  • zoe

    It’s a character type – a certain variety of narcissistic follower. Notice there’s a certain obliviousness regarding the audience – TimM comes here to a Democratic blog to plead that we not vote for Romney or McCain. McKillop disgorges a long, unreadable unstructured rant.

    Their advocacy is more the playing out of an internal psychodrama than an attempt to persuade others.

  • “3. Learn about paragraphs if you want me to plow through your rants”

    Great one, jimBOB@17! What is it with those Paulites, anyway? NONE of them use paragraphs. Maybe it’s the same Paulite who writes all this crap under different “names”.

    The thing I fear most is a McCain/Huckabee ticket. I think it might end up like that.

    And, for any Democrat tempted to vote for McCain if Hillary is nominated? He shows the same Republican contempt for you by using the standard Republican slur, “Democrat Party” as Bush and his other losers do.

  • Re: JimBOB, zoe kentucky

    zoe: All men have flaws. If there were another candidate out with an antiwar fiscally conservative platform maybe we’d support him. But there isn’t, Paul is it. If you think calling him a racist is going to make me say “oh, well I guess I’ll just vote for a ware mongering big spending republican instead” you are wrong. Does that make sense now?

    People running around saying “but he’s a racist”- I do not believe for a second whatever racist views he may have would affect his policy as president. He’s clearly not running around today espousing racist viewpoints, all we have are old newsletters. Not to dismiss this- but I’ve found many 70 year old men will have some racist viewpoints- these are people who lived through segregation. If you think your elders are all smiles and sunshine, please think again. Paul’s comments seem relatively mild- the quote about 5% ‘sensible political viewpoints’ is obviously out of context. He defines sensible viewpoints basically as libertarianism, and his statistics in that context were probably fairly accurate.

    Endorsements from racists mean absolutely nothing. Duh racists like smaller gov. The also like chocolate. I guess chocolate is a racist food.

    I judge Paul on his *actions* which are distinctly not racist, and on what his effect would be on this country. I’m not a libertarian, and I wouldn’t want Paul’s libertarian utopia, but he couldn’t attain that anyway. He’s a move in the right direction (smaller government etc.).

    Unfortunately with the state of education in the country, combined with peoples’ general disinterest in politics, makes this analysis beyond most Americans. For them, I guess “you’re guy’s a bigot” is a satisfactory argument, along with “I like his hair”, and “he seems presidential to me”. Too bad about that.

    I was going to just write a blob of text, but I tried these paragraph thingies out just for you Jim. Pretty sweet, but I don’t think they’ll catch on.

  • Is it just me or do the Ron Paul groupies have a bizarre resemblance to Lyndon LaRouche’s followers?
    zk @ 19

    Ever since I first began to learn about the man I thought he’d attract LaRouchites.
    It doesn’t help that they use the same program to generate their online Paulattacks.

  • Right, because Romney is somehow clearly more conservative than McCain? That’s ridiculous! There is no reason to believe Romney is not still a Rockefeller/George Romney Republican. The only difference is he made the right alliances, he was clearly put up by some of the Washington establishment, as evidenced by his massive amount of contributions and endorsements when the non-New Englanders (96% of GOP) had no knowledge of him. And on the other hand, McCain failed a couple minor tests of orthodoxy and pissed off the ideological PACs.

    I will be the first to admit the campaign finance legislation that Bush signed obviously did no good or made the situation worse. And I AM NOT PRO-McCAIN! In my case, because he’s always been a neocon with his finger on the trigger (luckily higher ranked folks have taken the trigger away from him thus far). But Romney is a smooth-talking (ex-?)LIBERAL REPUBLICAN (not maverick moderate conservative who panders to the media) is not somehow obviously superior!!!!! And that goes even more for Giuliani, for whom Limbaugh, etc., seemed ready to vote for over McCain and Huckabee, as if Giuliani were more Reaganesque than either of these.

  • Am I the only one who seems to think that when it comes to Republicans in general, they usually end up voting for whomever the ‘establishment’ decides is worthy and follows the party line.

    There are way too many people in America who believe every word said by Lars Larson, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Reilly, Shaun Hannity, Ann Coulter, Glen Beck, etc… I don’t think it is a coincidence, that the vast majority of people who listen and believe the previously mentioned blowhards are actually Republicans / Conservatives.

    As the study about conservative brains pointed out last year; they do tend to ‘need’ an authoritarian figure to look up to, and fear is one of their main motivators. They have listened to all the nasty stuff about Hillary for so long that it has turned into a fear of seeing the potential of another Clinton in office, that they’ll coalesce around a candidate whom the Kristol’s, Krauthammer’s, and other conservative wingnuts agree upon.

    Why would republicans hate McCain? Because they are told to hate him. Ask any of them what Hillary has done wrong? And more often than not, it’s a ridiculous smear about being corrupt, a feminist, etc…, but not being able to give any proof or examples.

    If there is one thing the Republican establishment has, and Democrats should envy, it would be their media apparatus to spread the gospel, and their think tanks to supply the selective research and cherry picked examples to prove their points.

  • –Unfortunately with the state of education in the country, combined with peoples’ general disinterest in politics, makes this analysis beyond most Americans. For them, I guess “you’re guy’s a bigot” is a satisfactory argument, along with “I like his hair”, and “he seems presidential to me”. Too bad about that.

    Uh, but I don’t want a bigot of ANY kind to be in office whether he ascribes to the old school of racism or the new school. Bigotry/Racism is a problem, and “just because everyone else is” does not excuse it.

    What Paul says about his viewpoints will make the government smaller sure, but will those be changes most Republicans want, and will those changes really fix the problems in the government? I don’t think so.

  • I’m starting to think the best outcome would be for RooDee to win Florida after all, with Huck second, Romney third and McCain 4th.

    That would really make a hash of things on the other side of the aisle.

  • I don’t hate McCain because the establishment tells me to–I hate him because he offers uber stupid things for America, like no tax cuts and amnesty for illegals. Sounds like he’s not got one iota of economic sense and loves to solve a problem by just dismissing it. It doesn’t reflect well on his qualifications as commander in chief.

    As proof, we’re now supposedly in a recession and what do the experts offer up as antidotes? Tax cuts and rebates! That should tell you something. But better yet would be to get someone in there that could redo government so spending could also be reduced through elimination of waste and duplication in services. Spending reductions along with tax cuts would be ideal for both sides of the aisle (i.e., every person in the country), and the man capable of doing that is Romney.

  • ***Stephan *** you are dead wrong. No republican will win the WH this election. Huge numbers are turning out in the democratic primaries to choose the next president. Republicans have nearly destroyed this country and no matter who they nominate they will lose. Stop making people paranoid just to get your candidate nominated. Whom ever wins the dem nomination will be the next president.

    Romney will be the GOP nominee because he is least embarrassing to them but no matter. Repubs have been a disaster and Bush acted with their full support. If you don’t like Hillary…change her. She would be a rep of the dem party and must listen to the party just like any of the other candidates. No republican will win the WH because all this republican disaster and obstructionism must end.

  • ***llilian***please…We aren’t electing kings and queens but representatives of Partys . You are either voting for the party who put solar panels on the WH or the party who tore them off(as one commentor here posted). Bush acted with the full support of the republican party. You are voting for the person who will lead their party but will still be a part of that party’s agenda. You are talking voting repub or dem depending on who will be their lead voice?? That’s kind of like voting on “Star Search” isn’t it? Voting Republican now is like voting for Bush again. Haven’t you had enough?. Don’t like Hillary…Change her by changing the party. Repubs could have stopped Bush just like Dems can stop any candidate we nominate once elected president. Your context of voting should just be Republican or Democrat or 3rd party.

  • “Ron Paul still appears to have no realistic chance of winning a single contest.”

    Yet his support base is the only one that has steadily increased since he declared his intentions. Good enough to place him ahead of the one-time media-anointed front runner in three states now. A following large enough to continue raising money for him as the other candidates funding dries up.

    Ron Paul is no racist. He’s guilty of bad judgement during a period when he was focused on his medical practice and not on politics. This story is old and has been used to try and stop him from getting re-elected as a representative before. It has failed because enough people have read between the lines and stepped through the smokescreens long enough to try to understand this candidate. Some write him off afterward, most do quite the opposite. He’s been re-elected to 10 terms.

    All the candidates have scandals, media-inflated or not, in their past. I’m not going to list them all; it’s pointless since you all have a brain and know how to search.

    Ron Paul stands out as the best choice for real conservatives to stand up and reclaim the Republican party.

    McCain, Romney and Huckabee are liberals, and will not do anything to stem the tide of illegal immigration any more than Bush has. Thompson and Giulani’s runs are nearing their end. All are Council on Foriegn Relations anointed choices anyway, which inherently means they will do as much to push America into a global government as the Democrats will.

    Yet Ron Paul still appears to have no realistic chance of winning a single contest. I’m glad I have my own crystal ball – I think yours might be as broken as the Republican party seems to be.

  • As proof, we’re now supposedly in a recession and what do the experts offer up as antidotes? Tax cuts and rebates! That should tell you something. — Rockyspoon, @29

    It sure does tell me something. Like… Those “experts” have sawdust where others have gray matter. We’ve had tax cuts and rebates, in unprecedented amounts, since 2001 and where did they land us? Smack dab into a recession.

    If, instead of a pay-raise you get a pay-cut, does it help you balance your domestic budget? Do fewer dollars buy you more gas or milk? The same thing happens on the larger scale also; if the revenue (derived from taxes) is slashed and slashed and slashed again, where’s the money for the everyday upkeep of this country (roads, army, police, whatever) supposed to come from?

  • Huckabee is NOT a liberal. Are you drunk? Only people who know nothing of liberals or liberalism could possibly call him a liberal. For pete’s sake, Huckabee wants to rewrite the freaking constitution so it reflects “God’s standards.” When he was pressed to clarify he said he wants to change the contitution to ban abortion and same-sex relationships. Yup, that’s a liberal for you!

    Just because Huckabee seems to be lacking a knee-jerk immigrant-hating reflex that most in the GOP seem to have does NOT make him liberal.

  • libra @ 33, that’s well said, unfortunately, you’re trying to explain it to one with sawdust instead of gray matter.

    James Moore @ 32, I don’t have anything against your candidate Ron Paul, but you’re not doing yourself any service by claiming that Huckabee and McCain are liberals.

    Just because you don’t like them and you'[re embarrassed to belong to their party, doesn’t make it any different by labeling them ‘liberal’. They are and always will be conservatives, whether you like it or not. It may not be your brand of conservativism, but conservative none the less.

    Don’t try to smear the ‘liberal’ label with your own embarrassment called the Republican primary candidates.

  • Enron is a classic example of Ron Paul free market economics. Love the man but he’s only 50% right on the issues. But of all the repubs he’s the one to shake the party out of the trees…but that’s not saying much.

  • There is nothing conservative about authoring legislation to allow foriegn invaders to jump ahead of the immigration line.
    There is nothing conservative about granting clemency to a convicted murderer.
    There is nothing conservative about suggesting illegal immigrants should be able to just pay a fine, go to their home country for a few weeks and come back to find their illegally obtained jobs waiting for them.

    There is nothing conservative about the Council on Foriegn Relations.

    Neocon=Liberal

    I am not a registered Republican, I’m an independent voter from Ohio who tends to vote Republican because I believe in small government, keeping as much of my hard earned money as possible, a strong dollar and economy, a strong national defense – one that is used to secure our own borders, fair trade, equality for all persons without regard for gender or race. What I am not for is selling our soverignity to the highest bidder, selling our country to China in order to fight terrorists in Iraq while the rest of the world lets us foot the bill. Continuing to support the globalist agenda of the neocons is nothing less than suicide for the American dream. Ron Paul may not be the right man by himself – we need hundreds of Ron Pauls. But I don’t see where anyone else is saying – believeably – that they represent true Conservative values. Maybe they aren’t liberals, they’re just Democrats-lite.

  • There is nothing conservative about authoring legislation to allow foriegn invaders to jump ahead of the immigration line.

    Although there is something inherently conservative (and xenaphobic) to refer to immigrants as “foreign invaders” and to have such a poor grasp of our immigration system. Seriously, what line are you talking about? There is no line for many of the people who are crossing the border, it’s not as though they even have an option of getting into a legal line– there is no line for them.

    Also, Hucakbee’s record of giving clemency to convicted murderers and rapists because they found Jesus is NOT something a liberal would ever do.

  • “Also, Hucakbee’s record of giving clemency to convicted murderers and rapists because they found Jesus is NOT something a liberal would ever do.”

    Agreed. This was spawned by conservative republican good old boy cronyism motivated by hatred of the Clintons.

    And if you’re not an American Indian then you also came from the “immigrant hordes”. Look what the great wall of China did for them. The only answer is to annex Mexico and Canada.

  • James Moore @37 I feel for you… I wonder what happened to you to think that anything bad is liberal… All the issues you’re talking about have been done by REPUBLICANS. Have you even stopped and wondered WHY you vote republican, even though you claim to be an independent?

    You seem to be MAD at what the Republican politicians are doing, and your solution is to call them liberal. How childish – uneducated. The probability that you voted for Bush in 2000 is rather high. It’s time for your mea culpa. Please remain an independent, educate yourself about what is best for the country, and you’ll find that at this moment in time, the democratic candidates are offering the best solution. Sure I don’t agree with all they are offering and / or saying, but it is far superior to the drivel and fear mongering offered by the GOP.

    The ideals you mentioned and hold dear, is what the Republican Party used to be, but not any more… Everything you despise is now the Republican Party, don’t you think it is time to reevaluate your, what seems to be, hardwired Republican reflex of blaming everything that happens in this country on the Democrats and/or liberals.

    Just calling yourself an Independent, because of being ashamed of what the Republicans have done to OUR country over the last 7 years, and then keep blaming ‘liberals’ for all the mistakes, is very shallow, and any ‘thinking-person’ can see through in a minute.

    Welcome to the reality based community. Keep educating yourself, and make sure to stay away from the Fox-Cool-Aid, and you’ll be surprised what you can learn.

  • As the sub-prime debacle spawns a recession, many Republicans will look increasingly to economic management as the key metric by which to choose their candidate. Rightly or wrongly that augurs well for Mormanly Mitt. Huckabee, Ron Paul & McCain’s grasp of economic policy, are tenuous at best, deranged at worst & ludicrously ill-suited to the scale of the impending problems.

    That leaves Guiliani & Romney who are both glibly coherent about economic policy. Giuliani may gain a bounce in Florida, but his profound negatives among the Republican base would appear to give the race to Romney. The McCain loving media will be reluctant to give up their candidate & there is a potential that the final primary result will be unclear (with no absolute winner between Romney, McCain & possibly Giuliani) forcing a brokered convention. Again, that means that Willard wins, because he would be the least objectionable to most Republicans.

    Romney would make a good Republican candidate for many reasons: He’s handsome, rich, happily married, apparently religous & provably willing to say or do anything to get elected. But best of all, any of the 3 leading Democrats would decimate him in November.

    Go Mitt!!

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