Bringing a gun to a knife fight – The Carpetbagger Report

To the GOP, a “brawl” is politics as usual, so no wonder they deride Obama for keeping to the(ir) same old same old. It’s just that the GOP is used to being more vicious than the Dems, bringing a kinfe to a pillow fight, as it were. So first, they’ll blast Obama for not being an agent of change (because to their way of thinking, a vicious political campaign is nothing new), THEN they’ll accuse him of fighting dirty (because according to the GOP, fighting to win = fighting dirty, and they’re not used to a Dem candidate who can not only fight back and fight back hard, but use facts & reality to win).

But that said, I have to wonder: if a Democrat brings a gun to knife fight, wouldn’t that necessarily be a “new” kind of politics?

Well yes it is a very new type of democrat. It is called having a spine and faith in your policies and tactics. Obama actually believes many of his proposals unlike the dlc consultant driven wing. Obama knows that he has a better chance if is in a position of strength going after McCain rather than a position of weakness letting McCain drive the conversation on agenda.

if a Democrat brings a gun to knife fight, wouldn’t that necessarily be a “new” kind of politics?

Yes – and in a good way.

Here’s hoping that he means it.
I’ve wanted to see a Democratic politician actually do it, for a few years now.
peace

People are still confused about this, but it’s really pretty simple.

When Obama talks about a new kind of politics he is talking about gathering a group of sane people who want to talk about policy (including some Republicans–there are a few) and kicking the rump of the Republican party to the curb.

That last part–the kick–may hurt. But the resulting politics will certainly be new.

Whaaaaah!! cried the RNC.

Why the crying RNC? I thought you were the big bad boy of US politics. You know the tough guy who didn’t let a bunch of pansy libs get the jump on you. Maybe because this time the Dems are coming after you with a loaded gun and an itch to use it.

The fight has already gotten dirty. Calling a potential first lady a baby mama is unfathomable. Dirty doesn’t cover it. It would be at par if one was to call Cindy McCain a drug addled whore. (If you want to say that Michele Obama is the mama of Barack’s children as the underpinnings of the baby mama disgusting label, would it not hold true that Mrs. McCain stole drugs, was addicted, and was fooling around with a married man the underpinnings of truth?) But would anyone dare label McCain’s wife that? No, nor should they.

This is but the start of what I think will be further unimaginable slurs, slams, scares and shenanigans, all of which will make our country look that much more regressive, ignorant and just plain silly.

As each of the Four S’s escalates, and fails, the far right will become more and more desperate (and unhinged).

Welcome to the new America where it’s okie dokie to use the “public” airwaves to spread and encourage hate and discontent (not to mention rioting *cough*Limbaugh*cough*).

Proud to be an American? What’s there to be proud of. Words are meaningless. Pride should be earned not blindly given.

I thought bringing a gun to a knife fight meant one used underhanded, dishonourable tricks? Just as, say, bringing a knife to a boxing match would have been?

I don’t know… It struck me as unpleasant and, if the conversation has been quoted in its entirety, uncalled for. Sort of… Male braggadocio, as it were; chest thumping…

Of course he needs to fight back (and even preempt attacks). And he has been. But he’s always been fighting *fair*, without tricks, even when others fought dirty. That’s one of the things that so appeals about him.

Notice all the reference to the republican smear machine…as if we’re supposed to be afraid by what they have been known to do. It don’t work anymore.

With all the analysis and breaking down of all the smears and dirty tricks played in the last elections voters who were tricked and lied to aren’t falling for it anymore. I believe voters are generally upset by all this and just plain refuse to be duped. We are more adept at separating fact from fiction and just don’t believe the negativity without first checking it out for truth.

There will always be those who are looking for filth to believe as justification to support their choice but they usually have their minds made up already and love slinging mud. The rest of us have gotten more cautious about what we will believe after witnessing how deceitful certain people and organizations have been in the past. For instance, how can anybody accept anything out of Rove’s mouth knowing what a sleaze he has admittedly been in the past? Hell, he should be in jail and maybe in jail soon and is virtually untrustworthy.

We just aren’t falling for the old “liars you can trust” anymore. Yes the truth can get ugly but only if you’ve been lying and presenting mis information otherwise the only ugliness is in those spreading rumors and insulting names.

The time of an effective smear machine has come to an end as long as we have access to the internet and to truth. Many people were just disgusted by those boasting look at what we did to Kerry or to Gore with our smear campaign. We are refusing to play along so they will only be singing to the choir while we just shake our heads and consider the source.

Ask yourself this question: In the past two elections how many smear campaigns were attributed to democrats and how many to republicans? Based on the current campaigns which of the two is more trustworthy by what they’ve said so far?

libra, are you familiar with the movie The Untouchables?

Ness: I want to get Capone! I don’t know how to do it.
Malone: You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That’s* the *Chicago* way! And that’s how you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I’m offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?
Ness: I have sworn to capture this man with all legal powers at my disposal and I will do so.
Malone: Well, the Lord hates a coward.
[jabs Ness with his hand, and Ness shakes it]
Malone: Do you know what a blood oath is, Mr. Ness?
Ness: Yes.
Malone: Good, ’cause you just took one.

As a Clinton supporter, one of my concerns with Obama was that he actually meant that crazy talk about “new politics” and “bipartisanship” and that he would work with the Republicans. Republicans have had their crack at it for the last 8 years. I am glad to see that Obama is up to the task and I am glad to see my worries were unfounded.

It is the shot heard round the RNC. like most bullies, the RNC is “tellling teacher”. Go get em Obama! I’m glad there is now someone scaring them. This is why the effete liberal smear won’t work; Obama can go street fighter on them. Hilllary ain’t the only Dem who can fight.

“I thought bringing a gun to a knife fight meant one used underhanded, dishonourable tricks? Just as, say, bringing a knife to a boxing match would have been?”

Not really. The saying is “bringing a knife to a gun fight.” It means coming into a situation woefully under equipped. What Obama’s saying is that whatever the Republicans throw at him, he will hit back harder.

It is braggadocio. It’s also important. A big part of the attack-politics playbook is making the victim look helpless. It plays in the “feminization” of democrats that has been a staple of the playbook. American’s don’t like their president to look weak. Obama needs to respond to these attacks with the appearance of strength, and that’s what he’s doing here.

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,…”

Excellent strategy. Not the best choice of words.

I’m sure this isn’t going to get alot of support here … but the RNC has it exactly right.

Obama promised a world where everyone would get along. Where suddenly the skies opened up and the Republicans and Democrats would get along in perfect harmony.

As his latest comments suggest, that might be not his current view.

Obama promised a world where everyone would get along. Where suddenly the skies opened up and the Republicans and Democrats would get along in perfect harmony.

Actually, this is the broadest possible interpretation of Obama’s message. It’s the one I heard at first too…when I was supporting Edwards. But when I tuned into Obama a little closer, I heard more “firm but fair” talk, which made me much more comfortable with him as a candidate. I know people like this–people who are the kindest, most easy-going people in the world. But their easy-going qualities don’t translate into letting people walk all over them. And when someone oversteps their boundaries, they have no compunction about saying so. That’s the distinction.

There’s no such thing as a knife fight in a battle against the Republican Smear Machine.

No unilateral disarmament. Bring the gun.

The so called “new politics” is more about policy than process. And it’s not even new. It’s restoring the progressive concept for producing a better society, a society that honors one of the five main tenets of the Preamble to the Constitution, that of the general welfare of the people. It is odd how conservatives, who worship the Constitution, don’t seem to know that’s part of it, and part of government’s responsibility, not that of the market place.

That said, when it comes to process, I’m becoming more and more of an Obama fan and his “Give ’em hell, Harry,” approach. After decades of meek, wimpy, apologetic and pathetic Democratic campaigns. this fighting spirit is inspiring and refreshing. I was wary of his “Can’t we all get along” approach, but I think he’s learning fast. You gotta fight, fight, fight for what is right, right, right.

Obama, as some have reported, is a movie nut. We should expect to see a lot of this (this being a quote, as Mary said, from the movie The Untouchables)

Speaking of fighting for what’s right, I had an interesting inspiration for a sci-fi story, a kind of time-warp thing, after Dennis Kucinich released his articles of impeachment this week.

I envisioned our Founders, wiped out of existence, and replaced by the sorry members of this Congress, the Republicans loyal to the British, of course, and the Democrats too timid and spineless to squeak, or even think about a revolt.

Along comes Dennis Kucinich, who authors the Declaration of Independence, with its long list of grievances, and is laughed out of town by both sides, and the United States remains nothing but a lowly British colony in 2008.

So hooray for Obama, whe’s getting mad as hell, and isn’t going to take it anymore.

@ Mary…. actually, the line is from the scene when Sean Connery’s character is killed “How like a wop to bring a knife to a gun fight”

It’s smart, bringing a gun to a knife fight: reminds me of Indiana Jones in an early whipping match (or whatever you call a duel with whips: Indy snaps his whip, shrugs, pulls out his gun, shoots, and the crowd cheers. (An action not in I heard in the script; Harrison Ford supposedly had an upset tummy in REAL LIFE and needed to run to the facilities.)

If anybody doubts that this is going to be ugly, consider the vile, despicable “baby mama” headline on FOX News, which was, I suppose, a way for a bigot not only to degrade Mrs. Obama herself but the idea of marriage between people who happen to be black since, of course, the Obamas ARE married and according to the NYT and the OED, the term is supposed to mean “unmarried” mother of one’s children. Or do Republicans think (contradiction in terms, but bear with me) it applies to married women as well? Would that mean that Barbara Bush, for example, is Poppy’s “baby mama”? Or did I get something wrong there?

A lot of people who should know better seem very nervous about Michelle Obama as First Lady. What this has to do with policy and voting for president I don’t know, but apparently female spouses are more important than votes on Iraq or vets’ benefits, healthcare, science, education, etc. Anyway, for the record: I think Michelle Obama is great, smart, able, charming, another Jackie, and I’m old enough to have idolized Jackie Kennedy when I was a girl — in other words, one of those white “women of a certain age” people who are supposed to love Hillary. Well, not all of us, thank you very much. The disrespect to Mrs. Obama can only, I think, cause others to recoil and vote against McCain. Still, it is so offensive I really hope it stops.

The ReThugs know that the best they can do is adopt a Maginot-like bunker mentality—and Obama’s bringing a great big can of whoop-blitzkrieg through the Ardennes.

Welcome to the Dem “nuclear option,” GOPers!

actually, the line is from the scene when Sean Connery’s character is killed “How like a wop to bring a knife to a gun fight”

Cue the McCain Outrage Brigades: “Oh My God! By referencing that quote, Obama just insulted Italian Americans!”

Obama promised a world where everyone would get along. Where suddenly the skies opened up and the Republicans and Democrats would get along in perfect harmony.

I have been watching pretty closely and I don’t remember that at all. I remember Clinton trying to ridicule his message by characterizing it that way but it doesn’t really resemble he has actually said as far as I can tell.

What he has put forth is a hope that we can achieve positive results in Washington by finding bipartisan solutions to many of our problems. For me, that certainly does not contain the assumption that said solutions will come as a result of perfect harmony. It would be incredibly simpleminded to think any of this will come easily which is why no one, including Obama, has suggested it might.

So no, as usual, the RNC has it wrong. I believe that all of these things are simultaneously true:

1. Politics is rough arena
2. You have to be tough to participate in politics
3. It is possible to solve problems and create good policy in this rough arena with its tough participants even when not everyone is 100% in agreement.

Now, maybe #3 is wrong. Maybe its not possible but none of that is contradicted by his gun/knife argument.

22. On June 14th, 2008 at 7:31 pm, malcolm said:
@ Mary…. actually, the line is from the scene when Sean Connery’s character is killed “How like a wop to bring a knife to a gun fight”
______________

You’re both right, though MaryL is MORE right, in that Connery’s character, Malone, in the church, warns Eliot Ness about what he’ll have to do to stop corruption in Chicago: “They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That’s* the *Chicago* way!”

Whereas the quote YOU reference pertains to someone who’s already done the deed. “Isn’t that just like a wop? Brings a knife to a gun fight.”

To my way of thinking, the assurance of Obama to his constituents that he will be tougher than his opponents makes more sense than already taunting those who try to smear him. The fact that the movie takes place in Chicago – Obama’s stomping grounds – is not lost on me.

Although I also agree with TR – the GOP will bring up the quote YOU brought up as proof of Obama’s anti-Italian tendencies, instead of the quote earlier in the movie that Obama is clearly referencing.

“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said.

Uh oh, dog whistle to all his radical friends. Just kidding!

I’m not crazy about the wording but I’m sure glad he knows he’s in a fight. We picked the right candidate.

Time to donate: let’s get the guy a bazooka.

Actually the GOP response to Obama’s comment is the dog whistle–they’re using it as an opportunity to play the “scary black man” theme again.

But isn’t David Mamet voting Republican now?

Axt113, in the very first comment on this post, referred to gunning McCain down like a dog.

Oh dear – haven’t we had enough veiled assassination metaphors this year? Obama’s “gun” metaphor gets plenty close to the line for my taste while still being in bounds. We don’t need Obama supporters taking that and talking loose about shooting McCain.

Time to donate: let’s get the guy a bazooka.

Yep.

Politics is blood sport. They are going after his wife. They are promoting loons claiming to have had sex with him in limos. They are going to question where he was born. His religion. His manliness.

Fug that.

Barack is right. If he plays passive and tries to nurse his lead he will get filleted.
They will pick him off one bullet at a time.
He is reading the cards and other people’s hands correctly here.
Yes it is gamble, but a good gamble.
In fact: I absolutely love this play!

He is right: He (and we) need to shoot to kill.

Anybody got a 527 I can donate to?
How about one with the this refrain at it’s tail end:

“This message paid for by: Seniors against an Old Man for President.”

Just win baby…
Shoot to kill…

Thanks, MaryL, @11 and Leo, @14. I haven’t seen that film, so was not familiar with the scene. I did know (from reading “lefty blogs”) the saying malcolm, @22, quotes — about bringing a knife to a gunfight as meaning being unprepared — and just extrapolated from that.

I’m glad to hear I misread it entirely. All he meant was what, in Polish, is expressed as “paying back, with a bonus”, and I’m all for that; nobody should be expected to forgo self-defense and accept abuse without a fight.

Besides…Quite apart from the right/wrong issue… Isn’t “Don’t Tread On Me” a *very* American saying? Even I know it 🙂 Wiki says it was on the earliest of American flags.

As my great-grand-uncle Jim McKelvey, who worked for Harry Truman for 36 years said, “the only ‘good Republicans’ are pushing up daisies.”

An old lesson that the Democratic Party has finally re-learned, proving once again that “everything old is new again!”

Republican smarminess is soooooooooo annoying! Doesn’t it make you just want to punch the little fatboy in his fat little piggy face and then kick him when he’s down when you are confronted with it????

Wouldn’t hurt my feelings if he got himself a gatlin gun. That would make the Republicans run for the ‘bush’-es and cry for their mama: screaming it’s not fair!

It will be so shocking for the GOP, to actually have a ‘real’ candidate, that doesn’t back away from their scare mongering, and sleazy tactics.

I wonder if Rove’s book says anything about Democrats doing anything but cower at the first sight of discomfort, and ‘taking the high ground’.

Time to donate: let’s get the guy a bazooka.

Nah. It’s McNyah-Nyah-Nyah, wagging his wings at us and daring us to take the first shot. I vote we buy Obama a nice, shiny SAM.

Bringing a gun to this knife fight scares the living shit out of Republicans–and what they’re counting on are a whole lot of wishy-washy, weak-kneed, benevolent liberals to criticize Obama and advocate taking the high road.

I saw this last week when Kos made fun of McCain’s yellow teeth (which are probably dentures, not his real teeth, which he lost most of in captivity.)

You’d have thought Kos had suggested that McCain’s daughter was the illegitimate offspring of a carnal relation with an African American woman…

…snark intended.

Wow for a bunch of people who promote gun control you folks sure are down for a gun fight. Well be carefull for what you wish for. JM has been to a gunfight and been shot.. your boy maybe had a toy gun when he was a little toddler and thats about as close as he ever got to a weapon, oh except for his recent fight with a woman.(which had to be settled by comittee)…Real Tuff guy…LOL We will see who shows up for a fight. Oh speaking of crying is that hanging chads I hear falling… best you go count them.. oh you lost…soooo sorry…..

It is odd how conservatives, who worship the Constitution,

I am not usually prone to spurting out my drink in reactioon to something I read, but this came darn close. Conservatives love the Constitution? Where have you been for the past, oh, sixty years?

well, bubba, we know the kind of damage McCain can do with a fighter jet…

Of course, that’s damage he causes to his own side.

It’s funny to see the Republicans misunderstand Sen. Obama’s message and hence his appeal. It’s never been kumbyah and puppies and sunshine. It’s been about finding people you can work with to solve problems that are real. But the people you can’t work with — the people who put party before everything and who obstruct and hinder and harrangue? Screw ’em.

He isn’t calling for pacifism. He’s calling for proportionality. The character Sen. Obama aims to play is The Man with No Name… the gunslinger who’d like to hang up his pistols but who isn’ going to let the Big Bad ride rough-shod over the town no more.

And playing on cinematic archetypes is actually a pretty clever way to get yourself elected. Just ask Reagan.

SLAPPY MAGOO said:we know the kind of damage McCain can do with a fighter jet…
Of course, that’s damage he causes to his own side.
.
Well JM was severally wounded in the fire and exposion on the USS Forrestal, helping a wounded pilot. He was shot down after 23 missions in Viet Nam. He was severly injured and held POW for months without medical treatment. As a POW, he refused to be repatriated as a political ploy by Hanoi when his father was comander of forces, unless other prisoners were released as well. He was then beaten several times a week for not collaberating with the antiwar groups hanging out in Viet Nam, he would not give his captors the satisfaction of moral or mental victory and he paid dearly physically for it. And you have the audacity to say a supid comment like that. “of course thats the damage he causes to his own side” …Your stupidity and coldness is a suprise for even a liberal… you better hope your boy brings a gun to a knife fight because if he dont he wont have a chance in a fair fight…have a nice day…

“JM has been to a gunfight and been shot (down)….”

And also crashed three planes before even being deployed to Southeast Asia.

“…your boy maybe had a toy gun when he was a little toddler and thats about as close as he ever got to a weapon,”

Well, he was too young for service during the Vietnam War, unlike the current two clowns keeping the POTUS and VP seats warm until January.

“oh except for his recent fight with a woman.”

Now are you referring to the time he called his current wife a “cunt”, or when he called Hillary a “bitch”?

You are talking about McCain, correct?

“…Real Tuff guy…”

What does McCain have to do with farming equipment?
http://www.tuffequipment.com/products.htm

“Oh speaking of crying is that hanging chads I hear falling… best you go count them.. oh you lost…soooo sorry…..”

Actually, the whole country lost from that one.

And it’s the GOP who are crying like pussies about how Obama is going “negative”.

bubba,

it’s took late to play the fair-fight card. The GOP bullies have prided themselves on their dirty fighting skills far too long. And just lose the indignity; it don’t sell a single hot dog here. Imagine after these years of character assassination you would try to pull that!

>>>Wow for a bunch of people who promote gun control you folks sure are down for a gun fight. Well be carefull for what you wish for. JM has been to a gunfight and been shot..

Uh, dude?

No one disrespects McCain for his service. No one is saying he hasn’t been through a lot.

But we’re talking about a flyboy here. We’re not talking about someone like James Webb

On 10 July 1969, while participating in a company-sized search and destroy operation deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb’s platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex that appeared to be unoccupied. Deploying his men into defensive positions, First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers. Accompanied by one of his men, he then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. When the hostile soldiers failed to answer him and threw a grenade that detonated dangerously close to him, First Lieutenant Webb detonated a claymore mine in the bunker aperture, accounting for two enemy casualties and disclosing the entrance to a tunnel. Despite the smoke and debris from the explosion and the possibility of enemy soldiers hiding in the tunnel, he then conducted a thorough search that yielded several items of equipment and numerous documents containing valuable intelligence data. Continuing the assault, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade. Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body. Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker. By his courage, aggressive leadership, and selfless devotion to duty, First Lieutenant Webb upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and of the United States Naval Service.

or Bob Kerrey

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as a SEAL team leader during action against enemy aggressor (Viet Cong) forces. Acting in response to reliable intelligence, Lt. (j.g.) Kerrey led his SEAL team on a mission to capture important members of the enemy’s area political cadre known to be located on an island in the bay of Nha Trang. In order to surprise the enemy, he and his team scaled a 350-foot sheer cliff to place themselves above the ledge on which the enemy was located. Splitting his team in 2 elements and coordinating both, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey led his men in the treacherous downward descent to the enemy’s camp. Just as they neared the end of their descent, intense enemy fire was directed at them, and Lt. (jg.) Kerrey received massive injuries from a grenade that exploded at his feet and threw him backward onto the jagged rocks. Although bleeding profusely and suffering great pain, he displayed outstanding courage and presence of mind in immediately directing his element’s fire into the heart of the enemy camp. Utilizing his radio, Lt. (jg.) Kerrey called in the second element’s fire support, which caught the confused Viet Cong in a devastating crossfire. After successfully suppressing the enemy’s fire, and although immobilized by his multiple wounds, he continued to maintain calm, superlative control as he ordered his team to secure and defend an extraction site. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey resolutely directed his men, despite his near unconscious state, until he was eventually evacuated by helicopter. The havoc brought to the enemy by this very successful mission cannot be over-estimated. The enemy soldiers who were captured provided critical intelligence to the allied effort. Lt. (jg.) Kerrey’s courageous and inspiring leadership, valiant fighting spirit, and tenacious devotion to duty in the face of almost overwhelming opposition sustain and enhance the finest traditions of the U.S. Naval Service

or John Kerry

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action while serving as Officer in Charge of United States Navy Patrol Craft Fast 94 and officer in Tactical Command of an operation in the Republic of Vietnam. On 28 February 1969, Patrol Craft Fast 23, 43 and 94, in conjunction with Underwater Demolition Team 13 and Vietnamese Regional and Popular Forces personnel, conducted an operation on the Ca Mau Peninsula as part of Operation SEA LORDS. While transiting the Bay Hap River en route to an insertion point along the Dong Cung River, these craft with thirty Regional/Popular Force personnel embarked in each unit came under heavy enemy small arms fire from the river banks. The Officer in Tactical Command, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY directed his units to turn to the beach and charge the Viet Cong positions. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY expertly directed the fire of his craft at the fleeing enemy while simultaneously coordinating the insertion of the embarked troops. While the Regional and Popular Forces conducted an area sweep, Patrol Craft Fast 43 remained on station to provide fire support and Patrol Craft Fast 23 and 94 moved upstream to investigate an area from which gunshots were coming. Arriving at the area, Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY’s craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY ordered his units to charge the enemy positions and summoned Patrol Craft Fast 43 to the area to provide additional firepower. Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft Fast 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY then led an assault party and conducted a sweep of the area while the Patrol Craft Fast continued to provide fire support. After the enemy had been completely routed, all personnel returned to the Patrol Craft Fast to withdraw from the area. While backing off the beach, these units again came under a hail of fire, this time from the opposite river bank. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately coordinated the firepower of his units and supressed the enemy fire. Later, after disembarking personnel, and while exiting from the Bay Hap River, the Patrol Craft Fast were again under fire. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY immediately maneuvered his craft through several strafing runs which completely silenced the enemy. As a result of this operation, ten Viet Cong were killed and one wounded with no friendly casualties. In addition, numerous sampans, structures and bunkers were destroyed as well as confiscation of substantial quantities of combat essential supplies. Lieutenant (junior grade) KERRY’s devotion to duty, courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism directly contributed to the success of this operation and were in keeping with the highest traditions of the Unites States Naval Service.”

–you know, men who have actually used a gun to kill people while defending this country.

We’re talking about a flyboy here.

Bernard HPG(@42: You may be my favorite ‘mutt’ — see his website to get it. Your comment here — and most of your comments — is spot on target. I’ll just say “me, too’ and save my typing fingers.

Seeing as all of you can count on me to weigh in with a mention of my favorite VP candidate . . . maybe this “gun” talk signals the addition of a pro-gun Democrat to the ticket . . . OBAMA/SCHWEITZER ’08!!!!! 😀

A new kind of politics would include, as Obama has started to include, using the common meaning of words as found in most English dictionaries. Words like ‘confused’, ‘success’, ‘experience’, ‘up’, ‘down’. And then we can move on to sentence structure, basic reasoning, common sense, the ability to recognize shit by site an smell from a comfortable distance without soiling one’s shoes.

The Republican brand exists as a set of talking points, and Obama has discovered that it can’t withstand even a tiny amount of poking or prodding. A good example of this was the Hardball incident concerning appeasement. This was a one word talking point, and as soon as Mathews went beyond that, only pure entertainment remained. Obama is relishing in pointing to more examples, and McCain is the unlucky punching bag. But he also hit Bush, so it isn’t just McCain, it is the Republican brand falling, and failing due to Obama’s willingness to fight. If he were not there, leading the way, nobody would be venturing to point out the obvious.

It was a joke!!!! Remember Obama made an unfortunate remark about bitter and guns in reference to Pennsylvania, which is where he made the statement.

All during the primary in Pennsylvania there was the Hillary and Rocky the fighter theme that people in Pennsylvania liked. They liked the concept of “tough.”

It is a line from the movie “Untouchables” with Kevin Costner and Sean Connery.

See the video at the NY Times:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/14/obama-we-bring-a-gun/

“Obama has been promising for a year to be a tougher kind of Dem; maybe the GOP hasn’t been paying attention.”

Please give me one example of this.

“But that said, I have to wonder: if a Democrat brings a gun to knife fight, wouldn’t that necessarily be a “new” kind of politics?”

Umm, I guess, but how is this relevant?

17. On June 14th, 2008 at 6:58 pm, slag said:
Obama promised a world where everyone would get along. Where suddenly the skies opened up and the Republicans and Democrats would get along in perfect harmony.

Actually, this is the broadest possible interpretation of Obama’s message. It’s the one I heard at first too…when I was supporting Edwards. But when I tuned into Obama a little closer, I heard more “firm but fair” talk, which made me much more comfortable with him as a candidate. I know people like this–people who are the kindest, most easy-going people in the world. But their easy-going qualities don’t translate into letting people walk all over them. And when someone oversteps their boundaries, they have no compunction about saying so. That’s the distinction.

To me, this is also why I did not vote for Obama in the primaries, not being a huge Hillary fan to begin with.

I think during the primaries, he has shown that he will do whatever it takes to win. I think that is good, that we need a Democrat in the WH. I personally think that there a lot of important issues where bipartisanship is not the answer (at least bipartisinship as we know it, where Dems compromise and the repubs don’t).

I personally don’ think that Obama’s quote is bad in any way, but I think he has decided to play this game ( “fairy tale”, “it took a president”, “two candidate that love their country”), so let’s see what happens!

“it is the Republican brand falling, and failing due to Obama’s willingness to fight. If he were not there, leading the way, nobody would be venturing to point out the obvious.”

yeah the republican brand has been falling for a while, well before Obama was even contending in the primary.

I personally don’t think that Obama, up to this point, has done much to really tarnish the Republican brand. I hope that this changes, but we will see. I

What # 30 said. The RNC is trying to twist his words to make it sound literal when in fact is metaphoric so to make him looking like the scary black man.

Micheline, I doubt that’ll stick; he didn’t say he’d hold the gun sideways.

Oh do you mean John Kerry who shot a teenage boy in the back who was running from the fight. Or do you mean the John Kerry who scratched his arm on a bush and applied for a medal. Oh that John Kerry…. go count y our chads you morons.

43. On June 14th, 2008 at 11:35 pm, bubba said:
…Your stupidity and coldness is a suprise for even a liberal… you better hope your boy brings a gun to a knife fight because if he dont he wont have a chance in a fair fight…have a nice day…
_____________________________________

Interesting admission of guilt…in other words, stupidity and coldness are usually Conservative values?

To quote your other equally-stupid hero: Mission Accomplished.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah, because war is a duel.

Lookit me arguing with a spoof. Like any actual right-winger would call himself “Bubba.” Might as well go with “Consti2tionshredder” or “Cheney’s Polyp.”

With regards to new politics, we now know the cornerstones of wannabe Obama’s foreign policy. They are: Israel is our only reliable ally in the Middle East, dangerous regimes are communist/socialist (Cuba and most of Latin America) or militant Islam (Iran). Beware of China and Russia. Europe is in our back pocket. You said that this is exactly the same as President Bush’s foreign policy? You are right, it is identical to Bush. What a fraud, this “change you can believe in” Obama! Believe him at your own peril.

bubba @ 43.

You remind me of “songbird”.

Hey, that is my name.. Im a black male 38 years old and I am a conservative. ….spoof? …well …maybe…… but Bubba is my name… I have fun talking to you folks .. you take your selves so seriously… but you are wrong… Obama is not going to be good for this country… but you are so pissed off after the last two elections that you could put up Bart Simpson and if he told you enough of what you wanted to hear you would vote for him.. either way this country is in for a rough road for the next four… Also how come none of you blame the present congress you voted in for any of our current problems… I notice the point never comes up.. what say you?

Forgive my ignorance.. justguessing @60… who the hell is “songbird”

ok bubba, WE all take ourselves SO seriously, yet you choose to post a rant against a snarky 2-sentence post. Ok, whatever. Tool.

Which rant are you refering to? Slappy?

I can’t blame the 2006 Congress for not getting alot done seeing as everything that they could have done was blocked by the Republicans and vetoed or signing statement by Bush. That is why we need a bigger majority in Congress NOW. Plenty of us are pissed as hell over the actions of the Congress in the past 2 years but if we dont work to elect more Dems nothing is going to change.

I thought they had a majority in the House… ???
Remember how they said everything will be different now that we are in….
Congress approval at an all time low,,, whats up with that…. ???

Oh do you mean John Kerry who shot a teenage boy in the back who was running from the fight. Or do you mean the John Kerry who scratched his arm on a bush and applied for a medal. Oh that John Kerry…. go count y our chads you morons.

No, the Senator John Kerry who won the Silver Star, a Senate Seat, and was damned near President of the United States.

You have won, what? Coupons at Denny’s? Free pass to Six Flags?

John Kerry shot dead a Communist insurgent in a war most of the Republican Party ran frightened from and won medals and made a name for himself by telling the truth about the war. Wingnuts smeared a combat veteran to give cover to a man who has ruined the military, ruined the nation, ruined the Constitution and ruined the chances of the Republican party for a generation.

So, suck this, wingnuts.

bubbammeitzer, I’m referring to your stupidity at post #43. I know, you’ve written many stupid things in a short time, so anything I can do to help, don’t be shy..

Thanks slappy…couldnt remember which rant I had there…. hey Warren you said the key phrase..”was damned near President of the United States.”…coming in second in the presidential race is just the FIRST LOSER>>>>.yup… damn near but second place… again.. again…again…. and in November ole Warren will be saying “our boy Obamma was almost president if only them chads didnt hang up… ”
bubba said that…. the troll you all love to hate……

hey Warren you said the key phrase..”was damned near President of the United States

That’s right–and anyone who wants to revisit the issue of Ohio can go look it up.

There’s no shame in coming in second–Bush did it twice.

Wait a minute…

Well lets see…seems to me he won Ohio and the Presidency….but you might want to rewrite history… isnt that what you guys do… first loser …then and now…

Hey it was nice but I gotta run.. the cooler is getting low and I have to get to the store before I run out of beer…love you guys…
Bubba said that… the troll you love to hate…..