Brownback’s straight talk on rape and abortion

June 11, 2007

According to the available data, most Americans support abortion rights. That majority gets significantly bigger when Americans are asked whether women impregnated by a rapist should be legally able to terminate their pregnancy.

And then there’s Sam Brownback.

Sen. Sam Brownback, campaigning for president before the National Catholic Men’s Conference, questioned whether rape victims should get abortions.

“Rape is terrible. Rape is awful. Is it made any better by killing an innocent child? Does it solve the problem for the woman that’s been raped?” the Kansas Republican asked at the St. Joseph’s Covenant Keepers gathering in Taylors.

“We need to protect innocent life. Period,” Brownback said, bringing the crowd of about 500 to its feet.

That “crowd of about 500,” of course, was made up entirely of men. Women are prohibited from the National Catholic Men’s Conference.

As J. Goodrich noted, “[N]obody in that audience has to worry about getting pregnant after rape or the possibility that he might die giving birth to the rapist’s child. There is something extremely distasteful about the combination of the all-male audience and this particular topic, a topic about forcing women to give birth whether they wish to do so or not.”

Is it made any better by killing an innocent child? Does it solve the problem for the woman that’s been raped?”

An embryo is *not* an “innocent child”. This is demagoguery.

How could a man know what would or would not solve “the problem” for a woman that’s been raped? How about asking women what support they need to help deal with the trauma of rape? Brownback and the National Catholic Men’s Conference are disgusting.

  • The Repubs scare me more and more every day. Why do they have to have such a black and white mentality about everything?

    I am just speechless with outrage about these blanket statements these men make. I’d really like to know what they propose to do with that baby after it is born? Are they planning to adopt any of these babies who are born? My guess is “no”. I guess it is pretty easy to decide what is right or wrong if it is something that would never happen to you.

    Fuck you, you misogynistic bastards.

  • Brownback’s comments are outrageous, but so what else is new? There are lots of people in this country of Brownback’s ilk, and their minds are not likely to be change. I find myself having a hard time getting worked up about a right-wing nut who has no chance of even being nominated, let alone elected president. I, for one, would welcome a Brownback nomination. I’ll bet even Bill Richardson could beat him in the general election.

  • I could say something about the Catholic church being famous for being a bunch of celibate old men making just such pronouncements on a subject they have little or no direct experience with for oh, say, a few hundred centuries now.

    But some sincere adherents, of whom there are many, might consider this a mere aspersion cast on their religion, which it truly is not but merely a statement of historical fact.

    So I won’t.

  • Fine Sammy you bigotted prick, we’ll just drop the precious little things off at your house, along with the medical bills.

    Does it solve the problem for the woman that’s been raped?”

    Because in Sam’s World (TM),carrying a baby you didn’t want or plan to have and are having because someone committed a crime isn’t a problem at all for a woman!

  • Small correction:

    “….for being _ruled by_ a bunch of celibate old men….”

    We regret any secular tension created by this faux pas.

  • “One in three women will be raped in her lifetime.”

    Now there’s a statistic you hear all the time. What you never hear is the corresponding statistic which must also exist-

    “[some number] of ten men will rape in his lifetime.”

    Right? I mean if a large number of women are getting raped- who’s doing all the raping? It’s not like they are getting raped by invisible ghosts or magic evil rape fairies. They are getting raped my men obviously.

    The statistics on the number of women raped help bring attention to a terrible problem, but as happens all the time, the focus is being placed on the victims, and not the perpetrators.

    So out of a group of 500 men, how many of them have raped a woman in their lifetime?

    I’d guess about 100 of them.

  • When Sam Brownback can get pregnant from a rape, he can opine on the relative tragedies involved in a brutal attack that seriously traumatizes the victim, and the loss of a couple hundred cells that do not represent a viable and sentient being. No uterus, no opinion.

    Here’s the deal: if you don’t believe in abortion as a choice – don’t have one. Live your beliefs as they relate to you, and allow other women the same courtesy.

    Deal No. 2: if you don’t believe that abortion is ever an acceptable choice, promote the use of birth control.

    Deal No. 3: if life is so precious, make sure you support that life once it is born and needs food, shelter, clothing, education, love and support. There are plenty of people who do this, but those who get to make decisions about funding programs that support the equally innocent and precious lives of those who cannot afford to raise them, need to stop viewing those lives as drains on the wealth of the more fortunate.

    Put your money where your mouth is or STFU.

  • “Does it solve the problem for the woman that’s been raped?”

    If the rape got the woman pregnant, then yes, abortion provides a reasonable solution to that problem, if she doesn’t want to have the child.

  • Questions for Brownback:

    What would you do if your wife was raped and got pregnant?

    What would you do if your wife didn’t want the baby and wanted an abortion?

    Would you force your own wife to have the child?

    Do you think that your wife would go along with that? What about other members of her/ your family? What would they think of you if you forced your own wife to carry the child of a rapist?

    What say you, Brownback?

  • 500 men. wanna bet there are more than a few in that audience who have committed a sexual offense or seven…

    and let’s not forget this rationale from bill napoli, a republican south dakota legislator who has clearly given some very serious thought to the issue of rape:

    BILL NAPOLI: A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life.

  • The reason they push this is the logic that follows:
    If you claim that all embryos are by definition life, and you oppose abortion “to protect an innocent life,” but then turn around and say abortion is OK if the embryo was the product of rape, then it must be okay to murder an adult who was born of a raped mother. This is obviously absurd, and points to the absurdity of the initial claim.

  • This is one of those moments when being against something is fine in theory, but not in practice. Imagine Brownback’s granddaughter the victim of rape by someone of another race. Imagine him insisting that she give birth. Ain’t gonna happen.

  • This highlights that the abortion debate isn’t about babies, it’s about state control of women’s bodies and by extension, their decisions.

  • linda @ 11:

    Of course this is all about the character of the victim to this sick S.O.B. 10 bucks says a particularly malformed skeleton falls out of Bill “Brutalized Virgins” Napoli’s closet sometime in the near future.

    as bad as you can possibly make it

    Who is this “you,” Bill? Stay the fuck away from women, Bill.

  • On the one hand, I disagree strongly with the views of Brownback on this issue, as well as those of anyone who seriously believes (as many conservative Catholic leaders do) that “life begins at conception.” Having said that, on the other hand, I believe that Brownback’s views at least have a moral linearity that other abortion foes’ do not. After all, if someone truly believes that performing an abortion is to commit a murder, then someone’s status as a rape victim would not, in and of itself, justify her decision to murder someone who is not the rapist.

    The abortion foes who are truly deserving of our criticism are those who would allow a rape exception. By allowing such an exception, they implicitly admit that they don’t really believe that abortion is the murder of a human being.

  • But does Brownback also oppose the death penalty and war? Those who think life is sacred need to be consistent in those areas as well.

  • Southern Moron,

    There is a great distinction between Abortion and “the death penalty and war”. Abortion is murder, the taking of an innocent human life that has had no time to commit any wrong against anyone. The death penalty is supposed to be the taking of a life of someone who has commited grave crimes against society, and who usually is a danger to society. War is this same problem on a grander scale, though an unavoidable and unfortunate circumstance is that innocent deaths can also result, though non intended.

  • Jon, what part of thou shalt not kill includes “except those we determine to be bad”? I agree w/ southern moron, if you’re “pro-life”, pro capital punishment is hypocritical. It is the premeditated killing of a living breathing human being, arguably much more living and human than an embryo (and certainly legally more human). WWJD? I don’t remember him advocating capital punishment, even as he himself was crucified. See sometimes they do kill the innocent ones.
    PS, I’m pro-choice. If you believe abortion is wrong, don’t get one, but leave me & my body alone. Embryos are not legal entities in this country, unlike children already born (unless you want to hand out child tax credits/deductions for embryos?).

  • Senator Sam Brownback’s voting record on abortion issues can be found at: Senator Sam Brownback’s Voting Record

    Senator Sam Brownback’s history of speeches on abortion issues can be found at: Senator Sam Brownback’s Record of Speeches

    Senator Sam Brownback’s ratings from special interest groups on abortion issues can be found at: Senator Sam Brownback’s Interest Group Ratings

    For more information on Senator Sam Brownback’s position on abortion issues please visit Project Vote Smart or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.

  • The death penalty is supposed to be the taking of a life of someone who has commited grave crimes against society, and who usually is a danger to society. War is this same problem on a grander scale, though an unavoidable and unfortunate circumstance is that innocent deaths can also result, though non intended.

    I love to watch hypocrites tie knots in their own arses. Leaving aside the people who are executed when they are in fact innocent, leaving aside the fact that there are plenty of crimes that mark a person as a danger to society that won’t get you the DP (serial rape), this cretin would have us believe that the poor grunt who dies in battle (regardless of how he wound up in battle in the first place) is guilty of a “grave crime” against society. Does that include US soldiers Jon? Just curious.

  • Jon – do you have a uterus? Are you able to get pregnant? No? Ok, well than you don’t get to have a say. Thanks for playing.

  • But does Brownback also oppose the death penalty and war? Those who think life is sacred need to be consistent in those areas as well. — Southern Moron, @17

    Right on, Southern Moron.

    Not that I’m altogether consistent myself; I’d leave death penalty to God (who, supposedly, is all knowing, so never strikes an innocent person), and abortion to the woman in question. If she wants to consult with God as well as her doctor before deciding, it’s OK. She shouldn’t have to consult with (much less be told to spend her life barefoot and pregnant, by) some male “dominator”.

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