Bush thinks spied-on Americans should ‘suck it up’?

A reporter at this morning’s White House press conference asked the president an interesting question I haven’t heard Bush respond to before: “You can get the Congress to protect telecom companies from lawsuits, but then there’s no recourse for Americans who feel that they’ve been caught up in this. I know it’s not intended to spy on Americans, but in the collection process, information about everybody gets swept up and then it gets sorted. So if Americans don’t have any recourse, are you just telling them, when it comes to their privacy, to suck it up?”

Bush protests, saying he “wouldn’t put it that way … in public,” before effectively agreeing with the premise of the question.

This is actually quite helpful. First, Bush avoids the question, which makes sense given that he can’t answer it. Second, he goes on to repeat bogus talking points, such as his baseless insistence that the illegal surveillance “was legal,” effectively because he says so.

But I’m especially interested in the “suck it up” angle. Bush didn’t want to “put it that way,” but in effect, that’s what he believes, and he conceded as much this morning.

Consider the implications here. The Bush administration, with no legal authority, asked the telecoms to open up their data streams to the NSA. Intentionally or not, law-abiding Americans’ communications were subjected to illegal surveillance, in a scheme that preceded 9/11, and went on for years afterwards.

According to Bush, what are Americans entitled to in response? Absolutely nothing.

Indeed, he means that quite literally. He obviously opposes Americans bringing their concerns to court for a fair hearing, but he also opposes compromise measures that would let the telecoms off the hook and allow these Americans to seek recourse against the Bush administration instead.

Telecoms and the administration teamed up to break the law and violate your privacy. The only appropriate response, Bush believes, is to change the law and make those crimes legal several years after the fact, ending reasonable lawsuits that already before the judiciary.

And if you don’t like it, you should suck it up.

For the record, knowing that some of you can’t watch video clips online, here’s the full transcript of the president’s wholly unsatisfactory answer.

THE PRESIDENT: I wouldn’t put it that way, if I were you, in public. Well, you’ve been long been long enough to — anyway, yes, I — look, there’s — people who analyze the program fully understand that America’s civil liberties are well protected. There is a constant check to make sure that our civil liberties of our citizens aren’t — you know, are treated with respect. And that’s what I want, and that’s what most — all Americans want.

Now let me talk about the phone companies. You cannot expect phone companies to participate if they feel like they’re going to be sued. I mean, it is — these people are responsible for shareholders; they’re private companies. The government said to those who have alleged to have helped us that it is in our national interests and it’s legal. It’s in our national interests because we want to know who’s calling who from overseas into America. We need to know in order to protect the people.

It was legal. And now, all of a sudden, plaintiffs attorneys, class-action plaintiffs attorneys, you know — I don’t want to try to get inside their head; I suspect they see, you know, a financial gravy train — are trying to sue these companies. First, it’s unfair. It is patently unfair. And secondly, these lawsuits create doubts amongst those who will — whose help we need.

I guess you could be relaxed about all this if you didn’t think there was a true threat to the country. I know there’s a threat to the country. And the American people expect our Congress to give the professionals the tools they need to listen to foreigners who may be calling into the United States with information that could cause us great harm. So, on the one hand, the civil liberties of our citizens are guaranteed by a lot of checks in the system, scrutinized by the United States Congress.

And secondly, I cannot emphasize to you how important it is that the Congress solve this problem. The Senate has solved the problem. And people say, would you ever compromise on the issue? The Senate bill is a compromise. And there’s enough votes in the House of Representatives to pass the Senate bill. It’s a bipartisan bill. And the House leaders need to put it on the floor, let the will of the House work. In my judgment, it happens to be the will of the people, to give the professionals the tools they need to protect the country.

If there’s a shred of honesty in this response, it’s hiding well.

“what are Americans entitled to in response?”

Incremental national security perhaps???

  • According to Bush, what are Americans entitled to in response? Absolutely nothing.

    Americans are entitled to see Bush and Cheney impeached by the House and then called onto the floor of the Senate to defend their actions! Of course, thanks to the cowardly leadership of congressional Democrats, that isn’t going to happen.

    Send money to election opponents of Nancy Pelosi and let her office know you are doing it. That’s the only way we ordinary people are going to get her attention.

  • I know, lets give the telecoms immunity for anything that they have done in response to a legal request from the government. No immunity for anything that they have done illegally! Since they claim everything was done legally what do they have to worry about!

    TIC

  • You can see how much he’s stumbling just by reading the first paragraph of his response. He’s like, “Oh, shit, how do I answer this one??”

  • “I wouldn’t put it that way, if I were you, in public.”

    I find that little addition at the end fascinating.

    It’s almost a threat, and tries to suggest a “helping the terrorists” mentality by pointing out that Americans get screwed by the Administration’s preferred arrangement…

    I can’t wait until George W. Bush falls into the dustbin of history.

  • I wonder what Rove and Cheney’s chain of demand was to get info on political figures? I’m sure it had several baffles to give deniability, but they had a back door into the intelligence community I bet.

  • It’s interesting to watch this man dig his own grave with his foot in his mouth. I kept waiting for him to say “9-11” and poof in a cloud of smoke and stench of brimstone.
    “It was legal….” Well if it was the Telcom’s would’nt be asking for immunity would it!
    They were doing this long before Mar 19, 2003 by the way.

    “Daddy Bush…the American people are being mean to us because we’re going through their emails, waaaaaaghhhhhh” cry me a river. I’m cancelling my Verizon contract partly because of this.

  • Funny, Nixon’s dropped a quite a few notches on my Presidential Atrocities Scale. When it’s all over I don’t even care to know the rest of the story. The dark truth may just be too much to fathom.

    “Horror and moral terror are your friends.” – Colonel Kurtz

  • As I’ve posted before, the sad thing is that the Democrats will ultimately pass legislation with retroactive immunity for the telecoms, ensuring that we the people will never know the extent of the wiretaps. It always comes down to greed.

  • It seems to me that the more Bush has to push to get his way, the weaker he gets. In particular, I’m thinking of Social Security reform, but there are probably other examples. Bush thinks that he rallies America to his side when he uses the bully pulpit, but in reality he uses the bully pulpit to bully – not to persuade. The more Congress and others stand up to the bully, the more he huffs and puffs and the weaker he gets.

  • “You cannot expect phone companies to participate if they feel like they’re going to be sued. I mean, it is — these people are responsible for shareholders; they’re private companies.”

    So private companies and the investor class that supports them have more rights than regular US citizens? This really says a lot about Bush’s perspective about the value of the individual vs. the corporation. Rather Marxist really.

    Second, his terror rhetoric really has ramped back. Once could get the impression even he isn’t buying it anymore.

  • Whaaaa. It isn’t fair! because they thought it was legal.

    Wait, did I hear that right? By that reasoning, is he essentially admitting (on the record) that it wasn’t legal?

  • By the way, that yawn wasn’t intended as a dismissive comment on this issue, which enrages me. It also enrages me that he is still in a position to make pronouncements like this. In any kind of a just world he’d be in prison.

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  • I’d say the amount of stammering that Bush emitted in response to the question says a lot. He knows he broke the law, and if he doesn’t get the telecoms their immunity they’re going to sing. And when that happens the whole country* will be able to see he’s a criminal.

    * Except for Nancy Pelosi.

  • According to Bush, what are Americans entitled to in response? Absolutely nothing. — CB

    And why should he think any different? Cattle and sheep are there to be herded and milked and we’ve done nothing so far — including the post-’06 Congress — to disabuse him of the idea.

    […] these people are responsible for shareholders; they’re private companies. — Bu$h

    Right. And the shareholders might not be best pleased to learn that they’d been spied upon, just like any member of the great unwashed. God forbid, they might want to divest themselves of their holdings in such a company… Suck it up, sheeple, so that the companies don’t have to.

  • I am assuming that if there are ever effective investigations into the extent and particulars of this administration’s wiretapping, we will find that even before 9/11 Bush and Cheney and Rove and their lieutenants issued orders to wiretap and spy on their political opponents. Not on terrorists, or suspected terrorists, but on Democrats. Environmentalists. The ACLU.

    And that’s why this issue is so important to George W. Bush that he is personally fighting for retroactive telecom immunity: because if the authorizing documents and search target lists held by the telcos are ever subpoenaed, a whole lot of grand juries are going to have the opportunity to issue a whole lot of indictments naming an all-star list of the top people in the current Executive Branch. And Admiral Poindexter and his hench.

    Guilty, guilty, guilty.

  • “these people are responsible for shareholders; they’re private companies”

    First off, any company that has shareholders is a public company.

    Second, does anyone really think the telecoms aren’t going to pass any financial losses right on to us ?? And if one gets sued, they will all get sued, so competition will remain the same.

    It will go like this. A class action lawsuit is brought against the telcoms by it’s customers. If they lose, they jack up prices to their customers who just so happen to be the benefactors of the lawsuit. Customers use their suit money to pay for the price increases. Some lucky law firm makes a ton of cash, we find out how rancid the spy program is, and no one suffers any sort of substantial financial win/loss.

    My money is on the lawsuit going nowhere. By the time this thing ever sees the light of day, they will blame Bush up and down and cry 9-11. Anyone actually involved on the government side will have a cloudy recollection and no jury is going to hold a company ‘forced’ by Uncle Sam to do whatever it is they are doing.

  • According to Bush, what are Americans entitled to in response? Absolutely nothing.

    What is the US government good for:

    Absolutey nothing.

    Say it again!

  • Does Bush really think telcos would refuse to cooperate with a court order because they’re afraid of a lawsuit?

    No one wants to stop work on tracking down terrorists, including listening to their conversations. But we have (and had) rules governing how that works, in order to protect something that is also fundamentally important – protection from unreasonable search for law-abiding citizens.

    Bush says those rules should not apply. The only thing needed to make a request for info lawful is his say-so, and no one may ask questions about it, or hold anyone accountable for breaking those laws no matter what damage may be caused.

    How is that not tyranny?

  • Pelosi is protecting herself. The spying was set up in San Fran, her home town. Does anyone really think they are spying on US (in particular)? Oh, I am sure if something comes up (for targeted people – rich or powerful dems) they’ll use it to their advantage, but to be doing this spying was for political capital and nothing more. They’re being blackmailed into compliance.

    As for who will do something to this rogue regime? I hope the world courts will. Bush can retroactively make his illegal actions legal in the US, but that is not on a world stage. I cannot wait for that day. All the travel I do for work gives me tons of air miles, lots of free nights at Hilton facilities which all means a fully paid for trip to watch them hang Bush, Cheney, Rummy, Wolfie, Powell and Rice out to swing in the wind.

    We (the US) will never do anything. And that will always be shame upon our country. But there is a world court for a reason.

    I need a reason to go back to Holland and this is the best one I can think of!

  • Shouldn’t this mean that many if not most of the now lost and destroyed White House emails would have been captured in this openended collection? The US has been capturing virtually all of the microwave transmissions world wide for a couple of decades. The Ex Branch telephones would be on Verizon or somebody’s lines. All those Blackberries were whirring out goodies.

    Bush was Googlesing away like crazy. What was he looking up? Monica’s dress?

    If the gov has all this material, most of it is not any kind of “secret” and should be accessible to FOI.

  • let me see if i understand this … the bush administration, which by its own admission cannot “find” millions of its own emails because they dismantled the archiving system in place and which worked sufficiently, although perhaps not perfectly, without replacing it, is competent to collect, sort, hold and distribute ALL of the telephone and internet information, and those of us subject to it should just sit quietly with our hands folded.

    now that members of the bush administration have “discovered” that their emails are considered official government communications, some, if not many, are using text-messaging instead of email. shouldn’t those text-messages also be considered official government communications and archived?

    are we going to endlessly play “gotcha”with these people?

    i can see the headlines a year from now — “new democratic administration violates law by use of unarchived text-messages” …

  • There is every indication that there was a whole lot of illegal spying on American citizens going on BEFORE 9/11. This stinks way worst than Watergate ever did.

  • karen @ 25

    “let me see if i understand this … the bush administration, which by its own admission cannot “find” millions of its own emails because they dismantled the archiving system in place and which worked sufficiently, although perhaps not perfectly, without replacing it, is competent to collect, sort, hold and distribute ALL of the telephone and internet information, and those of us subject to it should just sit quietly with our hands folded.”

    Seems transparent but that’s what any conscience person would postulate. Usually technology doesn’t become so decrepit so quickly. How any bonehead policy or person could tolerate loss of records needs a) canned, b) an attaboy from the decider, c) secretly promoted. Could be that the email archive system is under govt sysadms. Vacuuming the internet space is contracted out and stored under the …wait for it…telecom sysadms. Doubtful they let any crumbs fall. Telcoms hold all the chips on this one.

    What glen @ 26 said

  • Telling by Bush’s first repsonse to the “Suck it up comment” , he was no doubt thinking about a cock being stuffed in his mouth.

    Welcome to the New World,
    where Presidents can fuck around on their wives with other women and men in the Whitehouse and still remain high in the polls by the prostitutionalized media.

  • Come on. Do you all really believe that we have NOT been spied on, by our own government, for DECADES? We all know it has been a criminal enterprise for several years, if not decades, yet the best we can do is sit and suck it up on a blog board.

    Most Americans are stupid whiners. And will remain that way for the foreseeable future. Fat, lazy, and dumb. That is what we have become. That is what we will remain until there is a significant, drastic, unimaginable change in our ‘special’ way of life. Once the food gets scarce, the real predators among us will be in control. And the fat, lazy, dumb sheep will be exactly that.

  • It should be remembered that the Constitution prohibits the passage of retroactive laws (Article I Section 9). Thus, any attempt by Bush or Congress to “legalize” their spying does no such thing. It simply constitutes yet another crime, further delegitimizing the American state in the eyes of its people, the world and the law. SIC TRANSIT ROMA.

  • again we see this constant overeaction to necessary tactics to ensure national security. We can only pray that Mr. Bush will be even half as successful with the War on Terror and freedoms as his war on drugs.

    The can be no compromise here – it may become necessary to RFID everyone and imprison all of those who even smoke one joint. The future is ours if we want it.

  • Bushco & The Washington Neocon Fascists are trying to break the news to the public that they’re going to spy on them no matter what, the sad fact is the
    government has been illegally spying on Americans for decades without warrants. They just want you to become accustomed to the fact you’re their chattle. If you want a real eye-opener read this, and consider carefully the rammifications of arrogance so complete, that Jon Q. Public are just guinea pigs in a social experiment to indoctrinate the unsuspecting into being ‘governed’ by criminals. http://www.iahf.com/nsa/20010214.html The information on this web site is all true.

  • One more point. AT&T *is* and has been the private leg of the NSA for DECADES. IAt one point in my employment career I had access to the hiring positions of AT&T — and 90% of the employees were employed bygovernment agencies. The US government doesn’t have phone system — they use private telecoms. The line between corporations and government doesn’t exist anymore. The US government IS owned and controlled by corporations (which includes the private bank called the Federal Reserve). Do a google search on ECHELON. Spying on Americans is nothing new. The only thing which is new is they WANT you to know they’re spying on you. That’s part of the conditioning necessary for you to accept a totalitarian privately owned corporate government — Orwellian style — where love is hate, hate is love, war is peace and peace is war.

  • I think it;s more bullshi$: it really makes you wonder just what the hell they will say or do next. there is no privacy anywhere anymore;and we have lost most of our constitutional rights from his presidency & most of congressmo doing nothing but looking for more money. that why our economy is ruined. greed&laziness.linda

  • Seems that this admin has OCD in relation to wanting to give all sorts of AMNESTY…this reminds me of him wanting to help/protect ILLEGAL/ILLEGITIMATE ALIEN INVADERS.

  • What of the rule of law? If the laws stop applying when and if some government hack decides it’s okay for company X to break the law, then why should I? Having access to everyone’s electronic communications gives the hold of that access a lot of economic leverage and advantage that other people do not have. Why should I pay more for stocks, bonds, food, etc just because someone else is allowed to break the law?

    If the law does not apply to the government or its lackies, then we no longer have a republic, but a tyranny. The rule of law has been replaced by absolutism and we are no longer free save by our own wits and might of arms.

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