McCain’s support for an indefinite war

Considering how worked up John McCain gets if anyone confronts him with his “100 years” comments on Iraq, it’s odd that he continues to articulate a policy of indefinite war. The Jed Report highlighted this clip from last night’s NBC Nightly News:

For those who can’t watch clips online, Brian Williams asks, “The videotape clip of your comment about being in Iraq 100 years if need be, of course, is still kicking around. You’ve since given a speech to more closely define your position on Iraq, but given your support for the surge and where you believe this nation is in Iraq today, where do you see it going and will your support be there for however many U.S. troops are required?”

McCain replied, “Yes. And the fact is we are winning in Iraq.”

In other words, McCain’s policy for Iraq is to stay the course, indefinitely, with as many troops and resources as required. Oddly enough, that was also his policy in 2003, and 2004, and come to think of it, 2005, 2006, and 2007. Just keep doing what Bush has been doing, and wait for it to work. Every step of the way, when asked, just say that the policy is either “working” or “winning,” and hope no one looks too closely to see if that’s right.

Of course, this isn’t a policy; it’s a joke.

By his own admission, McCain’s approach to a U.S. presence in Iraq — and remember, he’s already confused about how many troops are currently in Iraq — is that we should be prepared to leave troops in Iraq for up to a century after the war ends. But how long do we keep U.S. troops in Iraq during the war? As it turns out, that’s indefinite, too.

I’m reminded of a recent piece from Ron Brownstein, who explained why it’s incumbent on McCain to go into a little more detail.

First, if McCain doesn’t envision a 100-year American front-line combat presence in Iraq, how long is he willing to keep U.S. forces in that role? So far, all he has said is that the United States should withdraw only if it concludes that the Iraq mission is unachievable or when it has achieved success, which he defines as the establishment of “a peaceful, stable, prosperous, democratic state.” […]

McCain has not said when, but he has pledged that Iraqi units will eventually assume the major combat responsibility. That prompts the next question McCain should address: What would then become the mission for the U.S. forces he wants to maintain in Iraq?

McCain hasn’t been able to answer either question. He hasn’t even tried.

He has argued that after the war without end is over, and U.S. troops remain in a stable Iraq for generations, their mission would be to deter external aggression, the same way American troops are in South Korea to prevent North Korea from getting any ideas.

But that doesn’t work in Iraq’s case, either.

[T]he U.S. and South Korea agreed that North Korea posed a threat. The American troop presence in Germany and Japan long rested on a similar agreement about the potential danger from the Soviet Union, notes Ivo Daalder, a Brookings Institution senior fellow in foreign policy.

Although the U.S. considers Iran the most pressing external danger to Iraq, “the overwhelming majority of Iraqis don’t see Iran as a threat,” Daalder says. “They see it as a partner.” If a threat from Iran isn’t the motivation, Al Qaeda might provide the most likely justification for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq. But if Al Qaeda remains a threat there, conditions would likely not meet McCain’s standard that American troops are no longer at risk.

Indeed, skeptics raise another question that fundamentally challenges McCain’s analogy to Germany, Japan, and South Korea: Could U.S. troops ever be accepted in Iraq as completely as they have been in those societies? Or would our forces always be a target in Iraq, not only for Al Qaeda but also for the contending domestic factions? As Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean asked this week, “Does anyone think … if you keep our troops in Iraq for a hundred years, people won’t be … setting off suicide bombs?”

McCain hates the “100 years” talk, because, as he sees it, the discussion removes the context. But therein lies the point: McCain can’t offer any context with depth, because he doesn’t really have a policy.

So, what are we left with? McCain’s approach is to fight an indefinite war, followed by an indefinite military presence. As he sees it, hopefully the Iraqis will reconcile, and hopefully Iraq will become stable, and then hopefully they won’t mind if we stick around for a generation or five while we keep their allies at bay.

And remember, Americans are supposed to believe that foreign policy and national security are McCain’s strengths.

Tsk, tsk, CB. I refuse to believe you accidentally typed Bush when you meant McCain.

[Dap]

It really is sad to think that this guy is giving up his shot at the White House because like his fellow crooks … er … Republicans he is incapable of being honest or spouting anything other than the party line.

  • It’s good when the corporatocratic media uses clips when questioning Johnny Mac, so he can’t evade with “I didn’t say that!” I hope it becomes SOP. Meanwhile, those questioning him about our presence in Iraq might ask why it matters so much to us that this one country 1/3 of the way around the world from us have a stable, peace-maintaining, functioning gov’t when we don’t seem to care much about many others in equally unstable configurations. Could it have anything to do with trying to control the valuable resources of another country?

    There are only two kinds of Publicans – millionaires and suckers.

  • The recent negotiations with Iraq for the long term security agreement should be interesting. I believe the neo-con plan was to have permanent US bases in Iraq. Of course we won’t call them permanent. Iran is aware of this, that is why there raising it as an issue.

  • I hope that some smart citizen will press McCain on this when they do the Town Hall format debates. I hope they get up and say, “Senator McCain, please define in specific terms what conditions would need to be in place for you to consider the conflict in Iraq ‘won’ – what conditions would allow troops to be withdrawn?”

  • McCain’s problem is that he’s not sufficiently disciplined or clever enough to consistently tell and sell the lies that are needed to disguise the bankruptcy of conservative ideology.

  • With who’s money John? The US has been borrowing extensively from China for the last, oh, eight years and is pretty much on the verge of bankruptcy. Maybe you don’t realize it, but wars need money (you know that economic thing you don’t understand) and lots of it as guns and troops don’t pay for themselves (even though it seems you want to.)

  • McCain replied, “Yes. And the fact is we are winning in Iraq.”

    So this is what Baghdad Bob will look like when he turns 71.

    Any chance someone can splice in the sounds of bombs and rockets?
    And maybe a little dust curling down from above?

    [lil’ dap]

  • He’s turning into Col. Kurtz.

    Remember a few weeks ago when he got heckled during a speech by anti-war protesters? That’s when he said, “My friends, I will never surrender in Iraq, I will never surrender in Iraq.” He said it in that creepy sing-songy voice with that creepy grin. Underneath it you could see him seething.

    George Bush is a crook who got us snared in a disastrous war to fatten the wallets of his friends and the big oil companies. John McCain is a menace. He’ll set the world on fire.

  • In reading about the establishment of our long term presence with 58 bases, via this untreaty we’ve heard about, it jumps out that we are demanding immunity for soldiers and military contractors. How’s that immunity worked out in Korea or Japan or Europe? Oh , they do not have immunity there. A rape is a rape?

    Never mind.

  • In order to achieve stability in Iraq, all the different groups — the Shi’a ruling coalition, the Shi’a opposition coalition, the Sunni and the Kurds — will all have to make painful sacrifices. Each group’s leaders will have to offer to give up so much that those leaders will probably be denounced and rejected by their own people.

    That’s not going to happen as long as American troops are there to hold Iraq together and keep the violence from spiraling out of control. The Iraqi politicians will simply try to hold onto their own power for as long as possible.

    It’s not reasonable for us to expect the Iraqi leaders to commit political, or possibly actual, suicide. After all, we rarely see that kind of courage from American political leaders, and the consequences when they vote the wrong way are far less severe than bullets or car bombs.

    The only way the Iraqi politicians will make those necessary, but difficult and painful decisions is if the alternative — not doing anything — is even even more dreadful to contemplate. As long as American soldiers are in Iraq, doing nothing is the least painful option.

    American soldiers are being killed and wounded so the Iraqi politicians can safely keep their jobs rather than doing their jobs.

  • Oddly enough, that was also his policy in 2003, and 2004, and come to think of it, 2005, 2006, and 2007.

    Hey, give credit where credit is due: At long last we’ve found some policy where John McCain hasn’t switched positions four times in two years…

  • This doesn’t even scratch teh surface of McCain’s duplicity.

    the United States should withdraw only if it concludes that the Iraq mission is unachievable or when it has achieved success, which he defines as the establishment of “a peaceful, stable, prosperous, democratic state.” […]

    What modern day “Tet offensive” would produce the needed proof that the Iraq “mission” is unachievable? As long as he doesn’t say what the parameters are, it will never be clear, yes?

    As for the “mission”… it had been destruction of WMDs. When that proved too easy, we required “regime change”. When Saddam was captured and his sons killed, that goal had been achieved too easily. The mission became “democracy” and the Iraqis held an election. Still frustrated by success, the “mission” became “stability”. Something so vague it need never be achieved if one doesn’t wish it.

    What will it take to prove Iraq is Vietnam II to “Ace” McCain? He ain’t sayin’. Won’t someone ask? Or does he disapprove of “benchmarks” too? Who could blame him. They didn’t work out too well for the last guy.

  • Tsk, tsk, CB. I refuse to believe you accidentally typed Bush when you meant McCain.

    What’s funny is that this really was an accident.

  • I have a feeling that the Iraqi’s have made a lot of the tough decisions they are supposed to make. The problem is that they’re not the solutions Bush/McCain want. By the beginning of next year, we will have no legal justification to be in Iraq. The Iraq gov’t could reinvite us, but they seem reluctant to do so. Strange, considering all the doomsday talk of consequences of us leaving.

  • P.S. For homework, define:

    “peaceful” – 100 murders or fewer per month? 10? None?

    “stable” – transitions between Sunni, Kurd, and Shiite leaders without pause? Electricity 24/7? Oil pumping constantly?

    “prosperous” – 3 squares a day? Sateliite TV? two cars in the garage?

    “democratic” – Like us, or Russia?

    Luckily, Obama can use the low end of each and claim all of this has been done and get the heck out.

  • Former Dan hits the sweet spot to counter any war supporter:

    So are you willing to pay the massive taxes necessary to fund the continued occupation?

    No? then STFU.

  • A rape is a rape of course unless it’s a rape by a Blackwater mercenary, or very soon, a marine in a “security” role. I hate that word “contractor”. It’s a neo con fabrication to make it sound like these killer mercenaries are building something other than a criminal record. Why doesn’t the free liberal press called them what they are: Hired guns. Where is Palladin when you need him. “Have Gun, will Travel” That’s what Blackdeath’s business cards should say.

    No wonder Cheney is always smiling. he’s got his own private government and own private army. That the Dems haven’t demanded the removal of that mercenary force illuminates the depth of their collusion…

  • Eventually, there will be a Democratic President elected, either in November or four years later.

    Eventually, there will be a Democratic President inagurated, either in January or four years later.

    After that, the President will draw down troops in Iraq.

    After that, somebody will crawl out of a spider hole in Iraq and claim victory for driving the Americans away.

    After that, some Republican’t a**h*** will claim the Democrats ‘Lost’ Iraq.

    Until then, the Repubican’ts have to maintain a ‘policy’ of keeping troop levels up in Iraq so they can keep claiming they are winning.

    Yet somehow no matter how long they are winning they never seem to win.

    They just want the Vietnam Syndrome for the new century. That is, being able to blame the Democrats for ‘losing’ a war they lost by even fighting it without the means to win it.

  • The Neo-Con Bush/Cheney and now,McCain plan for Iraq was to establish a permanent American presence. A bright shining Democratic state that we could occupy oops! partner with. This would allow us to control not only Iraq but the entire Mid-East. Thai will be victory!

  • Lance revealed McCain’s exit strategy: Lose to someone who will get us the hell out of the quagmire, then cravenly blame them for losing the war.

  • Senator McWar-Without-End-Amen hates the 100-year meme, not because it ties him to the stupidity of such a commitment, but because it ties him to an ending date. Even though it’s 100 years from now, it puts him in a spotlight that shows him out to be “soft on Forever War” to all the hardcore Forever War fanatics. It’s as if Nikita himself had walked into a meeting of the Central Committee and declared that “100 years from now, there will be no Soviet Union. No Politburo, no Central Committee, and no Party. No State-sponsored profiteering. No gulags and no KGB.”

    Khrushchev’s comrades would have executed him on the spot for such an obscene slander to the Soviet power structure—and the GOP hardcore base (the profiteers and power-brokers, NOT the Fundi-Vangi-Bible-Thumper cult) will eat McWishy-Washy alive when he loses the WH in November.

    But then again, his wife can always throw his carcass into a big vat and make beer out of him—and it will still taste bad….

  • By his own admission, McCain’s approach to a U.S. presence in Iraq — and remember, he’s already confused about how many troops are currently in Iraq — is that we should be prepared to leave troops in Iraq for up to a century after the war ends. But how long do we keep U.S. troops in Iraq during the war? As it turns out, that’s indefinite, too.

    And that, along with the obscene cost, is the point to emphasize to McCain supporters. Not only does he want to stay in Iraq 100 years, but the clock won’t even start until after we “win”, which is unlikely to ever happen because we don’t even have a definition of what winning will look like (other than we won’t be taking any casualties, an unrealistic goal in a region where so many hate us).

  • I’m waiting for someone to just come out and tell the truth: that we’re in Iraq for the oil, and once we get it, gasoline will come down from $4 to $2 again. That the long term security untreaty is primarily for securing Iraq’s oil fields, that the proposed oil sharing untreaty will effectively hand over most of the oil and oil profits to American companies. That Iraq oil under Saddam was nationalized, but is now being privatized for our consumption.

    How unpopular would the war be then? Does McCain know why we’re really there? Or is he simply basking in the glory of triumph in the American way?

  • McCain says that AFTER we win, the troops can come back with “honor and dignity”.

    He also says we haven’t won yet.

    So applying logic to his two statements, he is saying that the troops who are rotating out do NOT have honor or dignity.

    Why does McCain hate our troops so much?

  • I wonder if someone will ask John McCain about the 23 billion of our tax money that Halliburton and other no-bid contractors have defrauded us of in Iraq, seems not to be on our corporate controlled media, but if anyone is interested, the BBC has investigated, it should be on at 9pm tonight (repeat), the program is Panorama!
    Cheers JS

  • In 2006 and 2007 Talabani and China’s National Petroleum Corporation (PetroChina) renegotiated a $1.2 billion Saddam-era 1997 contract to develop the billion-barrel al-Ahdab oilfield. The oilfield can’t be developed until the revenue-sharing laws have been legislated.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/22/AR2007062200445.html

    The sooner Iraqi politicians make those sacrifices, the sooner China – with their far cheaper and more numerous labor – will be able to edge out the U.S. for influence in the Middle East. And with the one-child policy recently abolished, and Beijing’s economy falling over itself to grow, the Chinese have been eyeing every energy source in view.

    Stephen McCutcheon wrote a review of China’s energy needs, published on his website and on American Chronicle.

    http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/64557

    A 2005 NYT examination of Chinese energy politics vs. America’s energy politics. Remember, this was long before oil closed at $135/bbl. This was before the U.S. trade deficit was $60.9 BILLION.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/01/business/worldbusiness/01oil.html

    Anyone who has been following China’s past ten years of energy investments and checkbook diplomacy in oil-producing countries such as Venezuela, Sudan, and Iraq know exactly why Boy King George lied us into Iraq and why McCain is chomping at the bit for 100 more years of occupation. This isn’t rocket science, just common sense.

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