Carville v. Dean

November 15, 2006

What on earth has gotten into James Carville?

Democratic strategist James Carville says his party should dump Howard Dean as chairman of the Democratic Party because of incompetence.

Carville, during coffee and rolls with political reporters today, said Democrats could have picked up as many as 50 House seats, instead of the nearly 30 they have so far. The reason they didn’t, he said, is the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million it could have put into so-called “third tier” House races against vulnerable Republicans.

He said he tried to meet with Dean to argue for additional spending for Democrats in the final days of the campaign, but Dean declined and gave no reason why.

Asked by a reporter whether Dean should be dumped, Carville replied, “In a word, do I think? Yes.” He added, “I think he should be held accountable.” He added, “I would describe his leadership as Rumsfeldian in its competence.”

It was obvious Carville wasn’t exactly a Dean-backer last week when he volunteered to lobby to replace Dean with Harold Ford, but comparing him to Rumsfeld? I assume Carville appreciates the seriousness of that kind of talk in Dem circles.

I’ll be the first to admit that Dean has not always been my favorite person, but Carville’s over-the-top hostility is inexplicable. Dean was the DNC chair when the Dems, for the first time in more than a decade, won back the House, Senate, majority of governors, and majority of state legislatures. He deserves a raise, a pat on the back, and other two-year term, not bitter attacks from Carville.

Put it this way: replacing Dean now would be like replacing a coach who just won the Super Bowl because the owner wasn’t satisfied by the margin of victory. It’s just that foolish.

And as long as we’re on the subject, when was the last time Carville won a big race?

He’s probably just been listening to his wife.

  • James, I know you’re married to Mary Matalin, but get her silly voice out of your head. She works for the other side and she’s infiltrated your cranium. You’re beginning to sound, how you say, Alberto Gonzalian. Besides, who voted you to be the brain of the Democratic Party?

  • Did Dean say something nasty about Mary Mary Quite Contrary Out of Her Freakin’ Mind? This just seems way over the top – and what is really disappointing is how little defense I have heard of Dean from others in the party. Unlike CB, I have long been a big fan of Dean, but I have still been pleasantly surprised at his willingness to buck opposition to do what had to be done: a long term commitement to infrastructure. Maybe Dean just didn’t pay enough DNC money out to consulting firms for Jimmy C’s tastes? If we are to take Carville seriously as a Democrat, perhaps the cajun could keep his ragin’ focused on the Rethugs?

  • Did you hear something? I thought I heard the grating drawl of something bald and irrelevant. Nah. Must’ve been nothing.

  • the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million

    $6 million? that’s all we needed to take 20 more seats? If that’s the case, then I think Carville should be more angry with Hillary and Kerry given the enormous war chests they are sitting on. They could have spared $3 million each from their $100+ million election funds.

    Moreover, I thought Dean answered that question really well in his Fox interview. The DNC is concerned with more than just Congress. The state legislatures are crtical too. Arguably more critical in this specific election due to the upcoming 2010 census and the opportunity for redistricting. Our gains in the state legislature may just lead to a much longer lasting Dem majority in the House due to this. Dean gambled and won.

  • Can we send Snakehead back to killing and eating Nutrias raw in the Loosiana swamps?

    The only thing this fucking moron ever did that ever got noticed was “It’s the economy, stupid!” And then he supported an administration that sold us down the river with NAFTA and WTO and every other kind of Wall Street approved crock of economic crap for Americans. This pig loved them all.

    Why does anyone listen to this “cracking trader”? He was wrong on everything election night, with his claim of 31,000 uncounted votes for Webb in Alexandria and all the rest of the b.s. he was making up as he went along. Only someone dumb enough to pass the IS test low enough to be hired into D.C. news media would believe this fuckwit if he said tomorrow was Thursday.

    Every time I think of all the reasons I hate The Big Dog, and there are plenty, Carville is always in the top 10. Followed by all the rest of the sellout loser Clintonistas.

    Howard Dean has more brains in his little toe on his right foot than the Clintonistas do in the aggregate.

  • Hmmm…James Carville wants to fire the guy who just spent two years rebuilding the entire state-level Democratic machine—which bumpkin-esque pontificationists like Carville thought we didn’t need. Of course we didn’t need infrastructure—we just needed to listen Jimmy-Joe-Bob-Bill-Roy Carville. Right?

    Dump Carville, my ass. I say we put him into a catapult, and slam-dunk his mange-infested carcass into the hold of a tramp-steamer bound for the North Korean coastline….

  • A week after their biggest win in a decade, and the infighting has already begun. Murtha vs Hoyer, Carville vs Dean. Yeah, yeah, I know there are some bitter rivalries out there, fine, but can’t you guys deal with the national emergency created by the Bush White House first, then play your petty games?

  • Sigh. Hoyer v. Murtha, Carville v. Dean– the Democratic Congress hasn’t even started yet and the party is already starting to collapse from infighting. If Democrats can’t do any better than this in putting their differences aside and presenting a united front, they can’t very well expect the voters who put them in power last week to remain sympathetic in 2008. The party really needs to end these stupid disputes, or at least take them out of the public eye, and focus on the party message. I hate to say it, but a little Rovian discipline would be a good thing for the Democrats right now.

  • Damn, BC beat me by 2 minutes. But it’s a point worth repeating– and no doubt many other Democrats are feeling the same frustration with the party right now.

  • I would have to say that Carville is Shrubian in his obliviousness. The deal he made with the devil when he married Mary compromised his integrity for me from then on. He sleeps with the enemy. Why should he get any respect at all?

  • Put it this way: replacing Dean now would be like replacing a coach who just won the Super Bowl because the owner wasn’t satisfied by the margin of victory. It’s just that foolish.

    Not just the owner, but some schmuck pundit. Who does Carville represent anymore? As far as I can tell, nobody. So why should his opinion mean anything? He’s just a talking head on the 24-hour news networks.

    Further, for whatever reason, this guy is married to the incredibly noxious right-wing talking head Mary Matalin. 1) He’s one of the bass-ackward political consultants the party needs to shed to regain any sort of credibility, and 2) he’s literally in bed with Michelle Malkin! Why is this guy taken seriously as a Democrat of any type? I’d say he’s worse than irrelevant, he’s the enemy, (politically speaking.)

  • James, shut up now James. You’re only making a fool of yourself.

    Dean did a great job and deserves to keep his position. Besides I think he’s the most neutral umpire we can get for 2008.

    Unlike Mel Martinez who will see to it that Jeb gets the nomination.

  • Wow. Looks like everything I said was already said. Serves me right for not reading the comments before hitting submit.

    Anyway, in case it wasn’t clear enough: fuck Carville. He’s no Dem, and he’s in no position to be criticizing Dean. Find me someone whose judgement has proven to be more prescient than Dean’s and maybe we can consider their opinion. (Which I have no doubt would be “Stick with what works if it looks like it’s going to continue to work.”) While we’re at it, can we stop giving Carville (and the always-wrong people like him) a bullhorn and pull these people off the air and tell them they aren’t welcome back? Find some new people who have been right more often than not, who have sound judgement?

  • Rian,

    If he’s in bed with Michelle Malkin, I suspect that Mary Matalin will be rather upset. Unless you know something the rest of us don’t…

  • And as long as we’re on the subject, when was the last time Carville won a big race?

    Here’s one that he lost this year (Carville blew this one):

    Pennsylvania 6th District
    Gerlach (R – Incumbent) 118,807 – 51%
    Murphy (D) 115,806 – 49%

    Democrats won two other seats in the Philly suburbs from Republican incumbents–but not Carville’s client. I guess this why he is so pissy.

  • Speaking of Carville’s cranium, I thought we moved up out of Neanderthal and into the much more fashionable, Cro-Magnon. Carville thinks like he looks.

  • Sigh. Hoyer v. Murtha, Carville v. Dean– the Democratic Congress hasn’t even started yet and the party is already starting to collapse from infighting. If Democrats can’t do any better than this in putting their differences aside and presenting a united front, they can’t very well expect the voters who put them in power last week to remain sympathetic in 2008.

    1. I believe it is Hoyer who has taken the fight into the public. Its a sign of desperation. (Maybe, I’m reading the cards wrong.)

    2. Carville v. Dean is a one-sided fight between a miniature (yet loud and balding) poodle and a rottweiler, and the rottweiler has other fights that he’d rather be fighting.

    And of course these little blips get blown up and amplified by the media, because it… reinforces the meme that Democrats do nothing but infight.

    These are distractions.

  • To steal a quote from Jimmie:
    “It’s the consulting fees, stupid.”

    That’s the sound of a man who sees Howard Dean as a threat to his and others consulting gigs. They are usually reserved for guys who have a track record of winning. That label one gets for getting more votes than anyone else in an election.

    A crusty old engineer once told me in his earthy way about consultants: “Those that can, do. Those that can’t, teach. Those that can’t do either, consult.”

    I think that applies here.

  • Just listening to the ragged cajun on the situation room: It sounds to me from the way Bay Buchanon agreed with the “hair impaired one” that “they” are really afraid of losing grip on power. “They” of course are the consultants, party centrists and political parasites of both kind.

  • “Orange” nailed it. Carville’s probably jealous or maybe he lost a contract somehow. Anyone who would marry the bitch he did has GOT to have a screw loose, and frankly I’m surprised he hasn’t pulled more of this crap already. He’s clearly a mercinary, I wouldn’t trust him with a turnip.

  • Well, I have always been a Deaniac.

    “the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million
    $6 million? that’s all we needed to take 20 more seats? If that’s the case, then I think Carville should be more angry with Hillary and Kerry given the enormous war chests they are sitting on.” — Edo

    Get in a dig on Kerry while you’re at it. Rahm Emanuel spent $6 million on two races that didn’t win. That money could have been spent on those 20 races, if such was the facts.

    The real facts are that Rapepublicans disenfranchized TENS OF MILLIONS of voters. Did Rahm Emanuel do anything about that? No, Gov. Dean’s 50-state strategy provided for state-by-state coverage of the vote-fraud, and the evidence these efforts produced made the corporate media MOOT. We have evidence and cases now for a thorough purge of e-fraud voting and HAVA purge lists in every state.

    Oh, did I mention HAVA, the Help Fascists Take Over Amerika Act?

    Steny Hoyer, the main proponent of that evil bill, which requires every state to purge voters illegally. Along with Bob Ney and Robert GATES.

    Murtha is cantankerous and has muddy boots. I’m ALL in favor of him planting those boots in Goober and Dork’s slimy, flimflamtastic mouths.

    “Sigh. Hoyer v. Murtha, Carville v. Dean– the Democratic Congress hasn’t even started yet and the party is already starting to collapse from infighting. If Democrats can’t do any better than this in putting their differences aside and presenting a united front, they can’t very well expect the voters…”

    This has NOTHING to do with voting or politics. Murtha is a direct line to the Joint Chiefs (who Rumsfeld DESPISED). He is the ONLY person in Congress, the only U.S. Marine in Congress, who can put the TRADITIONAL military back into service now that Rumsfeld is running for his life from CCR, ACLU, and the German court system.

    The party is NOT collapsing. Hoyer betrayed us with HAVA, and Carville is a cretin with a big head and two teeth left that he didn’t break off on his nightstand while attempting to humor that ugly racist wife of his. What is really happening is that the grassroots have made significant gains in redeveloping the MAJORITY party into something quite beautiful.

  • “the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million
    $6 million? that’s all we needed to take 20 more seats? If that’s the case, then I think Carville should be more angry with Hillary and Kerry given the enormous war chests they are sitting on.” — Edo

    Get in a dig on Kerry while you’re at it. Rahm Emanuel spent $6 million on two races that didn’t win.

    Uhh…do you mean to say “get in a dig on Rahm while you’re at it”?

  • Perhaps the persistent myth we need to burst is that it was Carville that was responsible for the 1992 Democratic Victories.

    No, it was Clinton.

    And Dean as Presidential candidate in 2004 and later as DNC Chairman, was the first personfication of a Democratic Party that was a national party representing the opposition to the current governance in the country.

    It started somewhere in a big way, and that was with Dean. He deserves credit for being ahead of the conventional wisdom and actually creating a new conventional wisdom.

    And Carville? He thinks we didn’t need all that stuff, we just needed X dollars in 10 or 20 races for possibly useful commercials and a leader of the party who might be good at some things, but has no experience running a party. Carville is not a genius, he has some good ideas, and a sharp tongue that is useful in reducing his opponents to babbling, but that doesn’t mean he should be dictating the future of the party.

  • What on earth has gotten into James Carville? — CB

    Don’t you know that — fairly old-ish — joke about God creating mankind?

    When God made Eve, He made her with 3 boobs, and the middle one was always in her way. She bitched. So God removed the middle boob but, being loath to throw any of his product away, decided to transplant it onto Adam.

    When it was done, God told Eve: “I’ve improved your life three ways: I removed the boob you didn’t want and I’ve fashioned two new parts to Adam from it. One of them will make him think and please you with intelligent conversation. The other will please you, erm… in other ways. Mostly at night. Unfortunately, there wasn’t enough material for me to make both parts function simultaneously”

    So that’s what happened to Carville; the “erm part” functions fine, the other one… not so well

  • Get the $6 million from HIllary.

    I used to really like Carville because he was the only Democrat who knew how to fight. But I didn’t like the way he bought into the Repub talking points on Wesley Clark, I don’t like this business about alerting the opposition to a Kerry recount, and this thing against Dean is flat-out nonsense. It’s been annoying enough having Rahm Emanuel taking all the credit for a strategy I’ve heard he fought all the way. We’ve all been discussing for many months on the internet that Dean was in hot water with some people because of his 50-state strategy and been waiting to see it play out.

    It was brilliant.

    And now all of these other people are jumping in to take the credit. I just hope they haven’t pulled the wool over too many people’s eyes.

  • I already weighed in on an earlier post regarding Carville’s first post-election trial balloon advocating that Dean be dumped. I have not changed my mind. Carville’s a meat-headed mercenary who totally lacks credibility. His every attack on Gov Dean endears Dean to me more and affirms my belief that Carville has long been over-rated. I also think the points about the basis of his ire being more about lost consulting fees than lost races are probably pretty close to the ol’ mark.

    Did you hear something? I thought I heard the grating drawl of something bald and irrelevant. – doubtful
    Truer words were never spoken.

  • Jimmy, when we went with your strategy and consultancy. What did we get? David Wilhelm. Remember, Can you remember ……. Under your friend’s direction, we got Newt. Your people planted inside the party should be fired, so we can really win those next twenty seats. They have not left and they are feeding you bad info, just like Mr. Wilhelm did to us all.

    We appreciate all your work for DEMs but don’t be a bitch. I liked you. You need to turn that energy toward getting dems elected. Get back to what you know. EGO Jimmy Jimmy. Check it at the door and get back to the voter file.

  • Since he first made that statement, I was wanting to find time to comment. It is so great to read so many like-minded thoughts. I personally live with a registered Republican, that just became an independent, but he doesn’t make his living by negating everything I believe in.
    I don’t want a mouthpiece for the party that believes in the game more than the message.
    If anybody has to go, it should be Carville.

  • I’m glad I checked back a couple days later just to pick up the line from Cindy, the CA farmer: “I don’t want a mouthpiece for the party that believes in the game more than the message.”
    I don’t have any problem understanding why the inside-the-Beltway consultants hate Howard Dean. In 2004, Tom Daschle spent a shade less than $20 million on a Senate race in South Dakota. If anyone thinks that most of that money found its way to South Dakota, they are being hopelessly naive. Naturally, consultants (or anyone else) will rebel against a new way that is far less lucrative for them than the old way.
    Carville’s mistake is keeping up the attack on the new way after it has been tested and vindicated. The Democratic party’s comeback started the day Howard Dean decided to be National Chairman.

  • Hasn’t Carville always sponken for the Clintons? Is Hillary anti-Dean? If so, that’s a pretty good reason to keep him around!

  • THose of us who read Woodward’s book can recall that Carville sold out the Democratic Presidential Candidate John Kerry when the chips were down: See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/did-carville-and-mccurry-_b_31333.html?p=3

    “The fact that the Clintonistas did not truly have JK’s best interest at heart in 2004 comes as no surprise to anyone deeply involved in the Kerry camp.” – Kerry insider, who would not go on the record.

    At some point it got out of control.

    The DC Dems hired to fight for John Kerry simply sold him out at the first sign of a fight. Except for a loyal group closest to Kerry, many of the people in his employ simply sucked. I can’t say it any plainer. Woodward offers more proof on what’s been speculated about for a couple of years now.

    But did Carville and McCurry really sell Kerry out? Playing stenographer, because this is important, I offer the whole picture, which goes way beyond Carville. It points to the reality that if our presidential candidate is going to win he or she has to extricate themselves from these self-interested traitors inside our own party who are willing to sell out the Democratic Party cause, which must be to fight and win elections, in support of their own interests.

    It’s important to hammer this scene out because we are facing a critical election in just a few weeks. Every single candidate must be prepared to stand up and fight back, because it takes more than just counting the vote against Republicans these days. As an aside, if you can vote through absentee ballot, which offers a paper trail that electronic voting does not, do it.

    But when the end isn’t certain there is only one thing to do: declare victory and fight it out.

    It’s clear Carville and McCurry had their eyes on something else entirely. With Democrats like Carville and McCurry helping us out on election night we hardly need Karl Rove.

    After 1 a.m., Card called Cahill.

    Cahill said the Kerry campaign felt confident.

    Card was caught off guard. … –Is there going to be a phone call?”

    “We won’t be calling you,” Cahill replied. She seemed to be half asking whether Bush would be calling Kerry to concede.

    (snip)

    Matalin is married to James Carville, a Democrat who had been chief political strategist for Bill Clinton in 1992. … …

    “Look, I know this is hard for you,” she told him sympathetically.

    Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio–perhaps up to 250,000 of them. “I don’t agree with it,” Carville said. “I’m just telling you that’s what they’re talking about.”

    Matalin went to report to Cheney.

    What? the vice president asked. …

    “You’d better tell the president,” Cheney told her. …

    “They’re going to contest it,” Matalin said.

    “What does that mean?” the president asked. He had his note cards with talking points in hand, ready to go over to the Reagan Building to declare victory.

    Matalin said somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican secretary of state in Ohio, who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes.

    (snip) skip forward to page 347…

    “I’m the president of the United States,” Bush said fuming, “waiting on a secretary of state who is a nut.” … …

    Reports came in that the networks wanted to go off the air without calling the race for either candidate.

    Rove shouted, “They can’t go off the air!”

    At 3:36 a.m., a very sensitive communication from the Kerry camp was relayed to Rove and Bartlett at the White House. Mike McCurry, Clinton’s former White House press secretary and a last-minute addition to the Kerry campaign, had e-mailed Nicole Devenish, the Bush campaign communications director, an off-the-record congratulations, advising that the Bush team should not try to force a resolution now. Don’t pressure Kerry, McCurry said. In the end, he believed Kerry would do the right thing.

    Bartlett and others told Bush about the e-mail, summarizing the message as “We’ll do the right thing at the right time.” They could trust that McCurry would be in a position to know what the Kerry campaign was thinking, Bartlett said, but they had to be careful not to put too much stock in it. At least we know there are people in the Kerry camp giving rational advice, Bartlett said. … …

    Card said they should declare victory. … … …

    STATE OF DENIAL, by Bob Woodward (pgs. 344-347)

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