Chris Matthews to Jon Stewart: ‘This is a book interview from hell’

October 3, 2007

About three years ago, The Daily Show’s Jon Stewart appeared on CNN’s Crossfire to tell the hosts that the show is “hurting America.” Depending on one’s perspective, Stewart was either being pompous or delivering a much-needed wake-up call to the political/media establishment (I vote for the latter), but either way, it became something of a seminal moment. Indeed, CNN execs ultimately agreed with Stewart, and the interview arguably helped lead to the cancellation of the show.

It probably won’t be quite as viral, but it was almost as entertaining watching Stewart smack Chris Matthews around last night. (via Atrios)

Andrew Sullivan argued that Stewart was rude — but justified.

The way in which cable news and opinion shows have turned political commentary into the equivalent of sports commentary can, sooner rather than later, contribute to the sense that politics can never be about anything but process, and process is always about cynicism. That’s corrosive. How we return to a more substantive and thoughtful coverage without tanking in ratings is a pretty tough call. But, hey, I’m a blogger.

Someone had to tell Matthews; I’m glad it was Stewart.

For those of you who can’t watch video clips online, here’s the toughest portion of the transcript:

Stewart: It seems like you’re saying, do what you think will win, not do what you think is right.

Matthews: Well, it’s both.

Stewart: This seems to emphasize the former.

Matthews: It’s about–

Stewart: (laughs)

Matthews: Can you come on Hardball?

Stewart: What?

Matthews: Yes, come on Hardball. We can play this game both ways.

Stewart: Can I say this? I don’t troll.

Matthews: You are unbelievable. This is a book interview from hell. This is the worst interview I’ve ever had in my life. This is the worst. You are the worst.

Stewart: No!

Matthews: I thought you were so big, you weren’t afraid of me. You’re so big, and you’re afraid of this book. This book scares you.

Stewart: No, it doesn’t scare me.

Matthews: There’s something in hear you fear.

Stewart: There is something in there I fear. Like fascism. I fear fascism. (Laughter) All I’m saying is this: I love what you do.

Well, Matthews didn’t enjoy himself, but I enjoyed watching it.

It was great. Matthews is the embodiment of what’s wrong with political coverage in our society, and Stewart–as he almost always does–called him on it in an entertaining and poignant manner.

Tweety is evidently so used to the mutual fellating that characterizes his “interviews” with other Big Shots that getting something else was a shock to his system. He really lost it. Beautiful to see.

  • Oh. My. God. Now I finally understand how Matthews became Matthews. He has no soul.

    I’ve noticed that Stewart, when he interviews somebody, usually can say he actually READ the book, which might be the problem.

  • That was a great interview. One thing I respect most about Stewart is he actually reads the books before he interviews the authors. That in itself is very refreshing. And as Dajafi pointed out, Tweety tends to fellate most of his inside the belt way guests when he interviews them. I quit watching Tweety and his circle jerk because he creeps me out.

    The segment right before Mathews came out was also pretty pointed in it’s hilarious intimation of the kind of show Mathews usually hosts. I hope Stewart takes Tweety up on his offer; I’d love to see another Crossfire moment.

  • Tweety is an idiot if he thought Stewart was going to ignore all the stupid bullshit Tweety’s been spewing for so long (although to be fair Tweety has said some good things too).

    Jon Stewart needs to run for office someday. The man is brilliant.

  • I didn’t find Jon Stewart rude to Chris Matthews. He disagreed with the premise of the book and tried to couch it in diplomatic terms. But Matthews, who can be rude on his show, kept at it and the dialogue escalated.

  • And what’s up with Tweety’s cackle? Did anyone else get a load of that fake laugh?

    But to the real meat of the matter, Stewart did what needed to be done: force Matthews to defend his premise. Why Sully thought that was rude just shows what the Beltway game is all about — letting people get away with murder because busting people on their own misdeeds is somehow impolite, unless the bustee is, say, named Clinton.

    Jon deserves a medal for not falling for Matthews take in his book that it’s OK to act like a Republican because that’s the way to get ahead. And to claim that Matthews book has already been written and it’s called “The Prince” was a brilliant observation.

  • Tweety seemed honestly shocked and somewhat upset that anyone might think the idea of ‘life is a political campaign’ was distasteful and disturbing.

    Poor man, here he thought he had a Wonderful Life Philosophy, a metaphor not just as a hook to base a book on, but to live by. He is obviously very proud of it, and Stewart goes and suggests that might be a really sick way to look at the world. No wonder Tweety didn’t know what to do. Here he was in his resplendent new clothes, and Stewart said he wasn’t wearing any.

    Tweety tried to suggest ways in which life is like a campaign, and Jon kept saying ‘yuck’, and it went downhill fast.

    I felt badly for Jon, because it was clear he was expecting his comments would have the effect they had on Matthews. He didn’t want to hurt the man’s feelings, but Tweety got pretty upset by the fact that someone thought his Wonderful Life Philosophy was really kinda creepy.

    Hell for Chris Matthews is the fear that he might not actually be the Good Guy and Smart Fella he thinks he is.

  • I’m so glad to see Matthews get some kind of come-uppance and that it was from Jon Stewart is priceless. Wonder how a Darryl Hammond skit on SNL, playing Matthews, interviewing the real Matthews would be . . .

    And the prior posts also validate why I can’t stand and don’t watch “Softball,” er, “Hardball.” He is now against the war, just recently, or maybe since the spineless Dems took Congress, but he spent many years oohing, aahing and fellating the Bush Administration, their minions and their policies. I remember reading an article which described the writer’s creeped-outness at watching Matthews and his male guest gush over the manliness (and cod piece) of Bush standing on the aircraft carrier stating “Mission Accomplished.”

    No, I’m an Olbermann fan and have been since he was in L.A. in the mid-80s. Tweety . . .Ha! Let’s play goofball and oddball!

  • I saw it and loved it, too. Really amusing was how throughout, Matthews kept saying these great campaigners “listened.” As if he even knows what they word means. And he got what he deserved because he wouldn’t seriously address the thoughtful issue Jon raised. He decided to treat it as a joke–because he’s such a good listener.

  • Very telling how horrified he was at how the interview was going. You’re not playing by the club rules, young man! No membership for you!

  • I was gonna go “Lalalalalala” since I won’t watch yesterday’s TDS until after work today… but then I remembered I always fast-forward thru the interview segments anyway. Now I know what I’m missing!

  • Stewart just helped Matthews sell several hundred thousand more copies of his idiotic tome.

  • Buying a book that’s been written before $18. Buying a large screen TV to watch the Comedy Central $1200. Watching Chris Matthews choke on reality… priceless.

  • I didnt get what stewart meant by “i don’t troll” can someone explain that to me?

  • I kind of feel like I should defend Chris since everyone here is attacking him but I cant. Jon Stewart has always said what he feels and lastnight was no different. Jon didnt like his book andChris is a big boy so he just needs to get over it

  • It surely appeared to me that Matthews was sloshed. He giggled like a teeny-bopper at a boy band concert, he was unintelligible, that cackling was far, far, over the top, I tell ya, he had a few drinks before he went on.

  • Dear m welton,

    In this case, the term “troll” is equal to the term “prostitute.” Mr. Stewart is, in effect, telling Chrissy the Sissy that he refuses to prostitute himself by appearing on a sleazy, knuckledragging, turn-cheap-tricks show such as Hardball.

  • What I find interesting about Stewart is that he can be genuinely gentle with some Republican politicians – like McCain – but is always fairly brutally honest with journalists.

    I’d love to see him go to Hardball and just laugh at every question. Not say a word, just laugh the whole time. Someone should point out that Chris Matthews is a joke as a journalist.

  • I think the interview is more likely to sell a few copies of Machiavelli’s “The Prince”. Why read Matthew’s sequel? Stewart does the best serious interviews on TV. Comics and actors? not so much. Whether he is tough on someone doesn’t depend on whether they are right or left, by the way. It depends on whether they are sincere. And Stewart can detect insincerity a mile away. After all, he has made a living by doing it. I have to admit a bit of schadefreude when Matthews was so uncomfortable he accused Jon of being afraid of the book. If there is any doubt he was embarrassed, Matthews didn’t mention the interview on his own show, a rare moment. But then Wolf Blitzer didn’t want to talk about Cafferty’s the day before either. Perhaps it was because Stewart called him “slow”. They don’t get much more narcissistic than Wolf and Chris, unless maybe Colbert’s character.

  • HumboldtBlue: “It surely appeared to me that Matthews was sloshed. He giggled like a teeny-bopper at a boy band concert, he was unintelligible, that cackling was far, far, over the top…”

    And that’s different from Matthews’ normal presentation how??

  • What I find interesting about Stewart is that he can be genuinely gentle with some Republican politicians – like McCain – but is always fairly brutally honest with journalists.

    Stewart treats many of his guests with more respect than they have earned. While he definitely had political views, he actually doesn’t let his own ideological beliefs intrude on his interviews.

    Except in one particular case: journalists. When he has journalists on the show who he thinks are not doing their jobs he can be brutal. I’ve seen him in interviews and, more than politicians, he thinks journalists have failed the country. And when he gets a chance to confront those journalists who he thinks have failed the country he lets them know. And that’s why I love Jon Stewart.

  • what? Matthews has a Cackle? Alert MoDo! I expect the MSM to dissect this in front page stories immediately!

  • Quite frankly, it was a tribute to Matthews, in itself, that Stewart actually managed to read the book.

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  • I loved the round-table bit that preceded the interview. Really aimed at the pointless banter in the ‘Chris Mathews Show’ roundtable.

  • I just saw the tail end of Hardball and Matthews is being interviewed by some lady about his new book or the book’s reprint. He didn’t cackle tonight. Maybe he stopped tippling after reading the posts here.

    Sorry if this is a sort of duplicate post.

  • Best line for me in Matthews and Stewart interview… “I’m not trashing your book….. I am trashing your philosophy of life!” WHOA!!!!

    So… not every book promotion is going to be a cake walk on Stewart! Hurray.

    Matthews accusing him suddenly and stridently of being AFRAID of his book… that was kind of sad to watch on Matthew’s part. Talk about projection.

    Would like to see Stewart do the same with Russert! His book “sounded” less opportunistic than Matthews’, about his father, but he hauls out his Dad as hero, tap into apple pie patriotism, to minimize his contribution to prolonging the war… and smugly discrediting progressive Democrats, etc., at every turn. And he seems to have some serious issues with intellectualism and scholarship, especially if voiced by educated people in the upper class. (John Kerry was a particularly juicy target for him). All in the name of faux neutrality and faux populist sensitivity!!!! Blechhh.

    American media treats the dismantling of our democracy like a sports event. They treat celebrity trials the same way. Justice and truth get shoved aside as they celebrate the titillation of short term gamesmanship! STYLE NOT SUBSTANCE. A good debate to them is like a tennis match. Whoever zings best wins. Whoever doesn’t let em see em sweat. (sociopath and pscyhopath amoral profiteers…don’t sweat much, by the way…. and the camera can just love em…. and the journalists join in the thrall)

    And the lawyers and journalists and pundits…. elbow into the celebrity circles. They are filling the spotlight, the searchlight that should be seeking out our national salvation. Our watchdogs have left the watch. Most of them.

    Kudos to Jon!!! The genuine article… the non-faux faux journalist!

  • Now if only Coulter would have the balls (we know she has the Adam’s Apple) to go on Stewart’s show to shill her new work of propaganda… Gaw’d I’d PAY to see that…

  • Usually, guests are on a show to promote their book, not defend it. I don’t watch either of these guys. If matthews was invited on to promote his book and got blind sided… then I don’t like S’s tactics. Then again, I don’t watch S’s show… so he may do this consistently and C should have known… I guess it’s all entertainment anyway. We’re all doomed.

  • apparently none of you have read his book, jon stewart included. if you had, you’d know that it’s not about how to run your life like a political campaign. the book is a series of anecdotes that reveal lessons that can be learned from the hard fought battles that occur in politics, which can be used in everday life. it’s philosophy more than anything, and certainly not disturbing. get your facts straight before spouting off about it. what a bunch of typical blog jerks. stewart was a total ass to matthews, because even if he did not agree with matthews’ ideas, stewart still could have had the common decency to be respectful.

  • and by the way, chris mattews is a liberal you morons. go read his book. he’s worked for liberal campaigns and politicians for decades, from McGovern’s presidential bid to Carter’s, and more. i’m a proud liberal, but some of you are repulsive in your seemingly incessant need to rebel or reject anything that isn’t trendily anti-establishment. form some unique opinions instead of jumping on the band wagon.

  • i’m a proud liberal, but some of you are repulsive in your seemingly incessant need to rebel or reject anything that isn’t trendily anti-establishment. form some unique opinions instead of jumping on the band wagon.

    Could not have stated this any better Andrew!
    JS is God, JS will teach em, JS shoulda woulda coulda > sheesh what sheep
    These F*n twits are morons lacking a solitary original thought combined. Stop, you’re embarrassing yourselves and the cause!

    Good Gad what tools

  • peregrine,

    ‘Actually, JC, “The Prince” IS a “how to” manual and NOT a cautionary tale.’

    Machiavelli wrote it as a “how to,” much as Matthews seems to have written this (at least judging by the title) as a “how to.” That doesn’t mean that sane and decent people don’t treat both as cautionary tales against what the unlimited thirst for power over others will make you do.

    For example, “The Prince” recommends killing all the family, including infants, of the prior ruler to ensure none can become a future revolutionary against one’s own reign. Matthews apparently thinks the only reason to listen to women is to get laid, not because women ever have anything worthwhile to say. This interview pretty much foreshadowed his nasty treatment of Hillary Clinton.

    Matthews’s viewpoint is fundamentally depressing for people who see politics as a means to accomplish what needs to be done for our country (ranging from military *defense* and international trade to health care and education), not as an entertaining game to be played for what one can get for oneself.

    His great admiration of Bill Clinton is quite telling here: the biggest successes of Clinton’s administration were essentially passing liberalized versions of conservative ideas. Allowing the Federal Reserve to maintain policies to keep inflation down, without direct interference into the economy; welfare reform, which Clinton kept from being as punitive as the GOP would have liked; NAFTA, which was better about requiring foreign labor protections than Bush’s subsequent FTAs have been.

    Clinton managed to build some cult of personality around himself, but such cults tend to raise even more passionate personal hatreds, as Clinton’s did. Really, has Clinton’s ability to fake-listen to people been such a boon for the country — or just for Clinton himself?

  • Jon was being an ass. You can’t deny that, but sometimes its nice to see someone call someone on their bullshit instead of just kissing their ass and promoting their ideas.

  • Come on, y’all… Chris Matthews has brought people to tears with his tell-offs. That’s why he calls it hardball. All Jon Stewart did on Crossfire was ..actually debate the alleged partisans.. and all he did with Matthews was ..play Hardball.. that’s what makes it funny. He exposed the cakewalk our hardball talkshow host was expecting.

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