Clinton campaign challenged on the ‘tested by crisis’ claim

This was painful to listen to. Following up on the Clinton campaign’s new ad, the one in which the campaign claims that Clinton is “tested and ready to lead in a dangerous world,” the senator’s team hosted a conference call with reporters yesterday to discuss the broader arguments.

Slate’s John Dickerson asked Clinton aides on the call a reasonable and straightforward question: “What foreign policy moment would you point to in Hillary’s career where she’s been tested by crisis?”

Regrettably, the usually loquacious Clinton team sat in stone silence for what seemed like quite a while (I think it was literally seven or eight seconds, which was quite a pregnant pause under the circumstances).

Eventually Mark Penn piped up.

“I think it was a moment of test when she was in China and she stood up and said women’s rights are human rights. That she showed the kind of wisdom that it takes to know when to push, basic elements under difficult circumstances.”

That’s not bad, and Clinton’s remarks in China were terrific, but a) this doesn’t really count as having been “tested by crisis”; and b) Mark Penn has spent the last few months insisting that giving a speech doesn’t really amount to real work.

After whiffing on the question, Clinton aide Lee Feinstein offered a response of his own.

“One of the interesting things is that Sen. Clinton has pretty broad support from the uniformed military, including the endorsement of 27 flag officers. That includes four at the rank of four-star. And this is really based on her work with these officers — a very diverse and esteemed group — through five years on the Senate Armed Services Committee, where she’s had a chance to work with them, some of them very, very closely, and a develop a relationship with them, where she’s earned their trust and respect.”

That, too, is accurate and impressive. But the question was about moments in which Clinton has been tested by crises, a claim from the campaign’s hard-hitting new ad. Endorsements from military officials are important, but they don’t necessarily answer the question.

Matt Yglesias asks, “How could they go forward with that ad without having a good answer to the question on hand?” It’s not an unreasonable question; the campaign probably should have seen this one coming.

For his part, Dickerson, who started all this trouble, wrote about the exchange.

[T]he ad also raises a new question the Clinton campaign has been stressing over the last few days: Who has been tested? The ad asks which candidate has faced the extended pressure of a crisis that might prepare him or her for the far larger pressures and crises he or she will face as president.

I love this question and am glad the Clinton team raised it. The problem is that they’re not so great at answering. When I asked campaign staffers for examples of Clinton being tested by a foreign-policy challenge, their response was pretty weak. As Patrick Healy reported in the New York Times, Hillary Clinton did not have a security clearance during her husband’s administration, so she wasn’t in the room for the brutal moments he faced. Her aides named the slew of uniformed retired military officials who have endorsed her, including several four-star generals. That’s nice, but it’s not proof of her mettle. When you make an ad like this, your case for your woman should be stronger than a list of endorsements.

Of course, Obama didn’t raise the claim, but he struggles with the same question.

Barack Obama gives an even less fulfilling answer when he’s asked about being tested. Brown asked him the same question at the end of the Austin debate, and he didn’t have a strong answer. Obama talked about his tumultuous adolescence and then returned to biographical boilerplate about his time as a community organizer. I asked Plouffe a similar question Friday, and he said that Obama’s successful campaign is showing that he can handle great pressure. He has run a terrific campaign, but it tells us more about his ability to organize, lead, and inspire. I don’t recognize a precipice moment in the last year that shows us much about Obama’s gut.

In the end, neither candidate has a strong answer to the questions raised by this stark ad, which means Clinton’s gamble in running it probably won’t pay off.

Sounds about right to me.

In other news, Bush Library to be Built in Saudi Arabia. Kucinich asks, “Why does a prison bookmobile cost $200 million?”

  • How many Presidents have been tested in this way before taking office? Eisenhower, Washington, Jefferson…maybe H.W. Bush from his long service as a government employee rather than an elected official. My point is that outside of a few, special circumstances it is almost impossible to get that kind experience. No one knew how Kennedy would act/react during the Cuban Missile Crises. The best we can do is put someone who is calm, cool, and collected in the position and hope for the best.

    Memo to the Clinton campaign: endorsements from retired generals means little (or worse) to me. They represent a bloated, bureaucratic general staff that is symptomatic of military dysfunction. Moreover, these are the men swinging through the revolving door of government service and MIC employment. They’ll back the candidate they think will pour the most money into the defense industry, particularly its boondoggles.

  • The “tested” argument doesn’t hold water for any candidate for US President. I doubt that any “testing” is adequate for that responsibility. No candidate measures up – not even Rudy Giuliani. 🙂

    But while we’re on the subject: has John McCain really been “tested”? When? (Sorry, being a POW isn’t relevant experience.) Is McCain “ready to lead in a dangerous world”? Inquiring minds want to know!

  • #2 Exactly. Unless one has been a military commander, a secretary of state or defense, or even a VP, how would one have been tested in crisis, as defined by Clinton’s ad.

    Really stupid of her campaign to not see the question coming and being prepared. But that sounds like her campaign has been over all.

  • co-president without a security clearance. I wonder why Bill didn’t get her one? It is really harming her experience argument now.

  • OkieFromMuskogee (3): “Has John McCain really been “tested”? When?

    See Ed Stephan’s answer from his comment in the last post: “He lost five planes, only the last of which was due to enemy fire. One of those was when as a joke he “wet started” his A-4 Skyhawk on the USS Forrestal, initiating the deaths of 167 servicemen.”

  • Well just look how she handled Vince Fosters murder. I wonder if that call came in at 3 a.m.? Then she sprang, sprang I tell ya, into immediate action getting the body moved to Ft. Marcy park and making it look like a suicide. A real woman of experience no doubt.

  • I’ve never found Clinton’s experience claim to be very persuasive and now her “hard working” claim is being brought into question in comparison to Obama campaigns massive organizing effort which more emulates the Howard Dean 50-state strategy than traditional Democratic efforts. And in the crisis situation I believe she would be too much imbued with the traditional responses to crises. She’d consider too much the Republican pressures for aggression. I could be wrong but it seems as if Obama would be able to use a less encumbered method of resolving a crisis.

  • I like when she talks about making that speech in China as if it were some Profile in Courage moment. She was the First Lady of the world’s most powerful country; what were they going to do, throw her in prison with the dissidents?

  • Overheard on MSNBC this morning: The phone rings at 3am, something is happening in the world and Hillary can’t find Bill.

    oooo. ouch

  • the repubs will stoke their cannons with this one. my rec to the obama campaign would be to document the mccain foreign policy experience to determine his batting average. assuming the outcome ain’t all that great, the honest reply could be “do you want someone at the end of his career who hit for a .233 average or do you want the up & comer from the minors who’s hitting .355 bat cleanup for you for the next four years?” I’m pretty sure i know what every MLB GM would pick.

    ps #5 nell: hillary was co-president for 8 years and didn’t even know what her husband was doing? (another pregnant pause…)

  • I frankly keep watching with amazement as Hillary’s campaign shows bad judgement, time and again in her campaign, in moments of electoral crisis. This ad is a remarkable case in point, because there was no way that Obama’s response wouldn’t have been precisely what it was – a reponse highlighting that her judgement was really bad at a momenty of crisis where real leadership was required.

    Her vote was almost certainly a result of precisely the same kind of flawed judgement that has plagued her campaign, triangulation for presumed political advantage when voting according to principle would have made her the stronger candidate.

    Even a few weeks ago I could not have imagined Hillary being inept, and now I can image almost nothing else. I will still vote for her, and work for her, if she is the nominee. She would be vastly better than McCain or any reThug.

    But I no longer have confidence in her.

  • Cult leader Obama’s ad gives an irrelevant response to Hillary Clinton’s perfectly legitimate ad. His counter ad is no response to Hillary Clinton’s legitimate ad.

    Cult leader Obama’s ad is slamming and disparaging the military that is serving in Iraq. Instead of hitting at Sen. Clinton with his misrepresentation on her about the Iraq war, he is bashing the patriotic military that is serving in Iraq. Cult leader Obama is unqualified to be commander in chief when he is skewering the military in Iraq with his false attacks on Sen. Clinton. Cult leader Obama should do the patriotic thing and pull his unpatriotic ad that batters the military in Iraq.

  • “How many Presidents have been tested in this way before taking office? Eisenhower, Washington, Jefferson…maybe H.W. Bush from his long service as a government employee rather than an elected official.”

    I’d add Ulysses Grant and Theodore Roosevelt to the list. After that, I think it’s just like you said. You pick the person who seems the most collected and hope for the best.

    At the beginning of the campaign I think a very strong case could have been made that Clinton was the one. I don’t think it’s nearly as strong now.

    It’s a small thing, but I think I saw one moment in the campaign where a candidate showed very good judgement under pressure. It was when Richardson stopped listening to the moderator for a moment at one of the debates and got asked a question.

    He turned blankly to Obama and Obama whispered “Katrina” back at him. In a couple of seconds, he guessed what was wrong and did the absolute best thing that could have been done. Richardson praised him for this after he ended his campaign.

    Hardly the same thing as a nuclear threat in Pakistan, but it did show Obama is able to grasp a situation quickly and make the proper decision.

  • My bestguess is that the Clinton campaign got caught mixing concepts: the ad was about foriegn policy chops, but the particular line about crisis experience had more to do with being under attack from the VRWC. When Dickerson very explicity asked about a foreign policy crisis, they realized that they were not going to be able to get away with their quickly thrown together blurring of concepts, and froze. Which in a way is too bad; it would not have been a terrible answer to say what they said about China and the military endorsements, and then added the second concept – the crisis toughening – and then connected the dots between non-foreign-policy crisis toughness, a example of non-crisis courage on the foreign stage, and the show of faith from military types. It looks instead like her staff just went into panic. They look tired and rudderless at the moment. I know the Obama folks take glee in this; I just find it a bit sad.

  • I am really tired of hillary’s propaganda show. She is “ready on day one” to step into Bush’s boots and start bombing Iran. Ready on day one for more imperial aggression. Ready to continue the American corporate war of terror on the people of the third world. Heil Hillary; Heil Bush: what’s the diff?

  • After reading about the real cost of the Iraq war, $2.8 trillion, in Vanity Fair, I want to slap Clinton upside the head for voting for the war. Both Clinton and Obama should be called on the carpet for not questioning the way the Bush administation has accounted for the costs.

  • wvng – I here you. She was never my top pick for nominee, but I had at least assumed she was as intelligent and competent as we’ve been led to believe. Just a short time later, and I’m starting to realize it was all hype. Not just her, but her whole campaign “machine”.

    That’s not to say that she’s dumb, or at the level of Bush or anything. But I’m really wondering how much of her intelligence was of the same kind as Dick Cheney and Condi Rice: Good memory and hardass attitude, but little grasp of what’s really going on. For people like that, it’s not about finding the right answer; it’s about getting what you want and winning. And even if they’re wrong, they won’t admit it. Again, that’s not to say that Hillary’s as bad as Cheney or Rice, just saying that it looks like she’s in the same category.

  • My take is that she was suggesting that “if” a crises did arise in the future, who would you prefer- a Bush Enabler or someone who has none of the support and respect of the uniformed people we call on. If youy want to hang your hat on the only issue the Obama can point to – the Iraq War vote- I’ll bet you that Obama would have voted for it also. He is making hay on an invalid point-He wasn’t there. There can’t be a true comparison in any way. Compare their Senate votes and then criticize. You can’t find much light between them. You set that one “bogus” issue aside and Hillary is clearly the better choice. I think Hillary is genuine and I think Obama is trying to sell me People Magazine.

  • fillphil. I can hang my hat on the judgement Obama is currently showing every single day. It’s why I moved from Hillary’s camp to his a few weeks ago. He demonstrates clarity of thought and purpose, and a calmness in the storm that speaks volumes as to his quality and character.

    And Hillary, sadly her behavior speaks volumes as well. From John Aravosis this morning: “The Clinton campaign is now saying that if Obama doesn’t win every single primary/caucus this coming Tuesday with a decisive victory, then he’s lost big. Forget the fact that if she doesn’t win 65% of the delegates in both Ohio and Texas, it’s actually over for her – the math says she simply can’t win the nomination without that margin of victory. . . . Yes, it sucks to lose, but once you’ve lost it’s better to get out than take us all down with you.”

  • @21, i wouldn’t make too much a claim about how much support and respect the Clintons have from uniformed people (beyond the revolving door generals of the MIC). Remember when Clinton reviewed the troops shortly after coming into office? A lowly enlisted man refused to salute him, and President Clinton refused to dress the soldier down for his inaction. Now Hillary and Bill are not the same person, but the two for the price of one argument works for both the positive and the negative. The buck private and the four star general both have the same number of votes in November.

  • From John Aravosis this morning: “The Clinton campaign is now saying that if Obama doesn’t win every single primary/caucus this coming Tuesday with a decisive victory, then he’s lost big.

    And the conclusion on that post seems to be that the Clinton campaign has no idea who they are crafting that message for. That they can’t possibly be as dumb as they seem…

    http://donklephant.com/2008/03/01/hillary-camps-woefully-bad-spin-for-next-tuesday/

    I see it from a different angle:
    The Clintons are signaling that will not stand down even they lose Ohio and Texas.
    As long as the possibility of winning by a lawsuit exists…
    They are in the game.

  • fillphil @21 is right, and I’ll take it one further. Obama wasn’t in the Senate when Pearl Harbor was attacked and wasn’t able to vote on that war either. I bet he would have sided with the Japs and demanded that we bomb more American harbors, not fewer. Nor was he in the Senate when the Declaration of Independence was signed. I bet he would have signed the Declaration of Dependence instead. Nor was he in the Senate when the Magna Carta was signed. Were it up to him, I bet we’d all be speaking British under King John.

    Barack Obama: Hypothetically the worst person ever.

    The truth is that, if anyone is the “Bush Enabler” it’s surely Hillary. I have no idea how these people have rewritten history that is still so recent in our memories, but some of us were paying attention all this time. Hillary was always the “tough” DLC candidate who pushed a centrist-conservative agenda until it became obvious to her that nobody liked conservatives anymore. Obama’s been saying the same stuff the whole time, and while we can’t mindread him to figure out how he would have voted; we do know he was a Senate candidate who strongly opposed the war. Hillary didn’t just support the AUMF, she fully supported the war. Now she’s trying to have it both ways while her supporters attribute her failures to him. Right. And I wonder why her campaign didn’t do better.

  • I’m for Obama, but, I can’t think of anyone besides Hillary that’s been smeared and slimed non stop by the Right Wing attack dogs for the past 16 years. That should count as some kind of test.

  • Jim B – I see what you’re saying, but what exactly is that a test of? That it didn’t drive her insane? That she didn’t commit suicide? That’s the thing: How exactly did she “pass” this test and what would normal people have done? And hell, Bush has gone through a similar test, the only difference being that the attacks on him were entirely fair. But if anything, that makes the attacks worse, as he’s got no one to blame but himself. Yet he seems to have survived ok and he was a complete idiot that probably wasn’t all that sane to begin with. If he can survive eight years of this stuff, I fail to see how Hillary’s so great for having put up it a little longer.

    If anything, I think she failed the test. For me, after putting up with what the Clintons put up with, I think they should have retired from politics and gotten rich off book deals and speeches. Bill could still have done what he’s doing and Hillary could have done something similar. But what exactly has she done in the Senate that couldn’t have been done by someone else? Don’t get me wrong, I supported her Senate run, but why did it need to be her? What mandate was she fulfilling for us?

    The fact that she didn’t is just evidence that she’s a glutton for this kind of thing. It’s one thing for some up and coming politico to take his chance at the big show, but the Clintons knew what was going to happen and wanted more anyway. Attack me once, shame on you; attack me twice, shame on..on…I’ll be attacked again!

  • A lowly enlisted man refused to salute him, and President Clinton refused to dress the soldier down for his inaction.

    Probably would have been even better to observe to the guy’s superior that while having independent thinkers is good, it looked like the unit wasn’t very cohesive and that they might want to address that in the future. It would have avoided the appearance of abusing the soldier while clearly claiming his rank by criticizing the guy’s superiors.

  • It’s a VERY bad answer actually. The communist revolution of 1949 brought a lot of bad things to China for a long time, the Cultural Revolution and the starvation of the Great Leap Forward among them. But one thing it did bring is a high level of liberation of women from traditional roles, much more so than any other country in Asia (ESPECIALLY by comparison to Korea and Japan). Under Mao, women were in the army, worked construction and in factories, were expected to be no different from men. That has continued, so that women in China today own companies, are high ranking members of the Communist Party. Many are considered heroes of the Long March. Chinese people know this (I am married to one, and spend quite a bit of time in China). For Hillary to raise that issue in China reveals deep ignorance and condescension. It reveals an assumption that everything in the US is somehow better and more free than in other countries. This is the feature of American rhetoric that is most grating to people in other countries. Know that Obama would not make this mistake.

  • Time to really stick a fork in her.

    I have suggestion for exactly which fork to use.
    This idea popped into my head on Alternet yeasterday, when they asked “Who should be Obama’s running mate?”

    Publicly making running mate noises is a way of saying “Hey, I won already, I’m ignoring you form now on, shreik all you want.” Choosing a person who will split the best of Hillary’s support off of her and on to Obama is an even better way of ending it.

    There for, as a native New Yorker, and son of a co-founder of NOW, may I suggest Liz Holtzman?

    Tough as nails, with feminist cred that dwarfs Hillary’s, real, significant legislative cred as well (she was the principal sponsor of the ERA, for example), and an absoolute demon in a debate.

    Balcks, Jews, and Women make up the largest chunk of the Democratic base. Add unionized workers, and that’s just about everyone. Liz would bring a balance to the ticket that would sink Hillary, and really challenge whoever McCain chooses for his veep, as well as bringing Obama’s numbers up even higher.

    Further arguements may be found here,/a>

  • The White House phone rings at 3am. Who should answer the phone?

    “Hello? Oh Really? You know, I find it interesting that you always call me first. And I don’t mind. You know, I’m happy to answer, but I do find it curious. You know, maybe we should ask Musharraf if he’s comfortable and needs another pillow…”

    or

    “Hello? I see. If we have actionable intelligence against bin Laden or other key Al Qaida officials and Pakistan is unwilling or unable to strike against them, we should.”

  • 17% isn’t a majority

    I am tired of the Hillary bashing.

    In November Barack won’t get the white male vote

  • Jim is making it clear the “halfrican” ain’t gonna get his white male vote.

    Guys like that are why I’m voting for Obama.

  • “How could they go forward with that ad without having a good answer to the question on hand?”

    The same way they didn’t think to find out how the primary vote works in Texas, the same way they didn’t think to figure out how many delegates they needed in Pennsylvania, the same way they have screwed the pooch on everything they have done in this campaign, being the entitled morons who were operating on the theory that “it’s her turn” of Imperial Succession.

    Hillary Clinton’s “readiness” to accomoplish anything reminds me of any number of seriously discredited rancid old sexist jokes from 50 years ago. What a sad comment to make about a woman who is supposedly at the “cutting edge” of the advancement of women in America. She’s doing as good a job setting back the progress of women as she did 15 years ago, setting back the progress of universal health care.

  • I am tired of the Hillary bashing.

    Me too. That’s why I don’t want her in the Whitehouse for the next four years. I’d rather have a president who can take a punch without whining about it endlessly…or having his supporters whine about it. “Oh no, you’re bashing my candidate again!!! Stop, I’m so tired of it!!!”

    And with that, I end my troll-feeding for the evening. More substance, please!

  • Jim has proven himself over and over to be an ignorant, racist jerk.

    His comments are so offensive and he’s an absolute moron to not realize ir – or not care.

    The poor guy has a daughter, who’s for Obama. Can you imagine how ashamed and embarrassed she is of her own father?

  • The poor guy has a daughter, who’s for Obama. Can you imagine how ashamed and embarrassed she is of her own father?

    My dad tells strangers that Clinton was a Soviet spy from the time he visited Moscow several decades ago, which totally makes sense seeing as how he presided over one of the biggest economic booms in American history. It’s one thing for people to have said that kind of stuff ten years ago, but he still does…while I’m there. And no, you can’t escape quickly enough when a relative does this kind of thing. He’s also a Deacon in the Catholic Church who likes to tell fart jokes to anyone who will listen. So yes, I think I can imagine how Jim’s daughter feels.

    Needless to say, I’ve worked hard at being the “cool” dad in front of my kids’ friends. My kids LOVE Obama.

  • Jim’s comments aren’t much more offensive than the high profile Clinton supporters who’ve said this country is too racist (or “isn’t ready”) to vote for a black president. Pa. Gov. Ed Rendel is only the latest to say it.

    It’s hogwash. The few people who would have voted for a Democrat but won’t vote for Obama will be far outnumbered by the people who will turn out to vote for him but would never take time to vote for Clinton, McCain, or most others. He has broad appeal in segments (young people, African-Americans) that have had low turnout until these primaries.

  • My parents had their moments (which, thankfully, were very rare), But my parents were born in 1904 and 1914 (I was adopted by my grandparents when I was born) so they had a modicum of an excuse.

    And the only time I ever saw it was when I went into the projects because I had become friends with a couple of black kids in college. I have my parents a hard time but if that was the only time it ever displayed I count myself lucky considering their age.

  • Mclaughlin would say “Wrong!” to all of you, but with points to #17 who is on the right track. All of this talk about being tested is a thinly veiled reference to the personal crises she faced whenever Bill cheated on her, most famously of course with “that woman…Miss Lewinski.”

  • I’d want Senator Clinton there, with her closest adviser Bill, any day, over Obama and his wife.
    Obama continues to attack Hillary with the only hammer he has… the AUMF vote.
    What due diligence did Obama endeavor to make his decision to oppose the war? He wasn’t even in the senate yet. He wasn’t privy to the intel, he had jack.

    So get over it. Hillary is supremely more qualified. Period.

  • Hillary may or may not be more qualified but her judgment of late is lacking.

    Sorry, Obama has her 100x over in that. And THAT is leadership. Sorry. Get over that.

  • Obama continues to attack Hillary with the only hammer he has… the AUMF vote.

    “Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?”

  • Dickson points out that Obama’s campaign has only shown us he can “organize, lead, and inspire.”

    Yeah, who needs that??

  • Clinton was senator of NY when 9/11 occurred. Have you forgotten that NY was where the trade towers were located? She stepped up during that crisis in a way that New Yorkers both saw and appreciated. It is part of the reason for her strength of support in that area.

    Nancy Reagan didn’t have a security clearance either. Does anyone doubt that she was co-president?

  • Obama keeps hammering us over the head about his superior judgment. However, he showed no leadership in the Senate to stop the Iraq occupation. If Obama were true to his anti-war speech, he would have voted against continued Iraq funding and would have used his superior oratory skills to persuade other senators to join him. Judgment is not leadership. Ambition is not leadership. Once he became a U.S. senator, Obama was too busy running for president to create a bipartisan coalition to do what was best for our country.

  • Tested? How? How one reacts to an unknown singular event is not foreseeable so we have to look at ones judgment and those who he /she brings with them to the table to even hazard a guess.
    IMO Obama judgment and the people running his campaign trumps Hillarys.
    Either one though will be superior over Bush and Co.

  • A word on ‘experience.’ Imagine a President with the following resume:
    State Legislator — 6 yrs
    Congressman — 10 yrs
    Ambassador to Russia — 2 yrs
    Senator — 10 yrs
    nominated to US Supreme Court (refused the nomination)
    Secretary of State — 4 yrs
    Ambassador to England — 4 yrs.

    Now that’s the sort of president we all would want, right?

    His name was James Buchanan, universally considered as one of the worst two or three, probably the worst pre-Nixon President — I’ll let supporters of Pierce and Fillmore argue with me on this.

    The fact is that there is NO correlation, either positive or negative, between previous experience and Presidential effectiveness. Make a list for yourselves of the Presidents, and see what they did before taking office.

    Judgment DOES trump experience hands down.

  • Comments are closed.