Clinton cruises to easy win in Puerto Rico

June 1, 2008

It hardly comes as a surprise, but the Puerto Rico primary was far from a competitive contest.

Hillary Rodham Clinton won a lopsided, but largely symbolic victory Sunday in Puerto Rico’s presidential primary, the final act in a weekend of tumult that pushed Barack Obama tantalizingly close to the Democratic presidential nomination. […]

With 93 percent of the precincts reporting, the Puerto Rico vote count showed Clinton with 243,542 votes, or 68 percent, to Obama’s 112,852, or 32 percent.

A telephone poll of likely Puerto Rican voters taken in the days leading up to the primary showed an electorate sympathetic to Clinton — heavily Hispanic, as well as lower income and more than 50 percent female. About one-half also described themselves as conservative.

Nearly three-quarters of all those interviewed said they had a favorable view of Clinton, compared to 53 percent for Obama. One-third said they didn’t know enough about Obama to form an impression.

According to the AP’s estimate, Obama stands to gain 16 delegates in Puerto Rico, which would leave him 48 short of the 2,118 needed to clinch the nomination.

The Politico noted that Clinton “ran hard in Puerto Rico, spending the days leading up to the election, and Election Day, on the island.”

The victory may help Clinton with her popular-vote argument, but will barely dent Obama’s delegate-vote lead. What’s more, it may prove to be the last success story of the primary season for the Clinton campaign, with Obama favored to win Tuesday’s primaries in Montana and South Dakota.

The Politico noted that Clinton “ran hard in Puerto Rico, spending the days leading up to the election, and Election Day, on the island.”

Any news on how she is financing her pipe dream?

  • The victory may help Clinton with her popular-vote argument, but will barely dent Obama’s delegate-vote lead.

    What argument? Help her how? Its a pretty crappy argument but she has made it as loudly as she can to the only people to whom it could make any difference – the party and the superdelegates. Unsurprisingly, they haven’t bought it.

  • But it doesn’t help her pop vote argument as the turnout was too low. Now with loses on Tuesday she can’t even claim a clear pop vote majority as an argument. Not that the supers fall for it. She’ll lie and say she has the pop vote though. I expect that much from her.

    BTW, did you know that Senator John McCain joined his fellow Republicans to vote to maintain a filibuster on the minimum wage hike. A hike in the minimum wage is supported by at least 75% of Americans — that number includes a large percentage of Republicans. John McCain doesn’t support the troops. He does not support the GI Bill which is the minimum that we owe the men and women of our armed forces. John McCain agrees with Bush’s Iraq strategy. As we have seen, Bush’s Iraq strategy is a dismal failure and any continuation will needlessly cost more American and Iraqi lives. How many more lives? Who knows but since John McCain is fine letting our troops rot in Iraq for 100 years it would be thousands upon thousands.
    John McCain wants to overturn Roe v. Wade. He is anti-choice and would appoint Supreme Court justices that will take from women their right to choose what to do with their own bodies. John McCain supports NAFTA. John McCain is a puppet for the lobbyists. Despite pretending to be a “reformer” John McCain’s whole campaign is controlled by lobbyists and there is evidence of quid-pro-quo activity that postdates the Keating 5 scandal.

  • Wow, if Puerto Rico is behind Hillary, I guess I should be too. Good thing she spent all her time campaigning there, or she couldn’t have convinced me otherwise. What a damn fine strategy she has. Forget about Obama, I’m supporting her to replace Abe Lincoln. He didn’t win Puerto Rico either. I’m sure the history books should be noting this change any day now.

    Just think, if she hadn’t adopted Bush’s idiotic “Invincible Strategy” and campaigned like this in Iowa, we’d be hearing Lanny Davis and friends still knocking Obama after badgering him out of the race last month.

  • This is at least one Clinton victory that we can be sure Obama won’t carry in the general.

  • Damn, nice work, Ms. Joanne. 250 or so comments already at TPM.

    Again, no need to give me credit at all — you’re the one who showed the initiative and started the dialog. Well done.

  • This is at least one Clinton victory that we can be sure Obama won’t carry in the general. — JRD, @5

    Very Big Grin. Perhaps this will be enough for them to decide that they’d rather be a state than a territory (or whatever their status is). I never could understand why, on the one hand, PR has a (relatively) large number of delegates to the convention but, on another, no say at all in General Elections. That’s not even half a loaf; it’s just a bait and switch. Me, if I were living in PR, I wouldn’t bother to vote at all; what’s the point? I’d just stay home and make lace 🙂

    According to the AP’s estimate, Obama stands to gain 16 delegates in Puerto Rico, which would leave him 48 short of the 2,118 needed to clinch the nomination. — CB

    So, OK… Montana has a total of 24 and South Dakota has 23. What percentages are y’all political whizzes predicting and where? 55:45 in both? That would be 27, with 21 to be made up in superdels. If the Votemaster (over at the electoral-vote) is right and Obama wants for the *voters* to flip him over the barrier, he’d need to release those 21 between tonight and Tuesday evening; before all the results are tallied. Releasing them at the St Paul rally (I *love* that choice of the wrap-up site), while having the same weight numerically, wouldn’t have the same weight emotionally.

  • Vamos Hillary !! Tu si puedes !! It cannot carry in the general? How about all boricua vote in the US?

  • TR, my pleasure. It was something I kept asking myself but nowhere near as eloquently as your wonderfully worded post.

    Libra, I’m with you! Why bother in PR and what’s the point, indeed.

    As for MN, I much prefer the symbolism of the Goopers having their convention in the place where the bridge collapsed – the best symbolism of the collapse of the not so Grand Old Party, hopefully forever.

    Did you watch Obama in Corn Maze country (should I admit that I have actually been to the Corn Maze Palace – Wall Drug, too)? I literally got all teary eyed. Jeez, I am such a sap.

    I am going to go OT because I want to relay a story which freaked me out. I flew into Louisville, KY today (will be working here all week) and stopped at the grocery store after I arrived.

    I was in the grocery store and these two guys were talking with the manager, trying to find something or other. I was looking for something in that aisle. When they were done, this one guy, who had a very heavy German accent, says to the manager, You need to train your employees better. Your black employees need to be grateful for and treat your white customers better.

    I literally was stunned…mouth agape. Can you say FUMING? Livid would be a massive understatement.

    It took me, oh, 45 seconds or so to gain my senses back and this schmuck had long walked away. I wanted to find him and say, take your foreigner ass back to whatever fucking country you crawled out of! You couldn’t lick the shoes of ANY American of ANY color, you racist fucking foreign prick.

    Did I mention I was pissed?

    Worse yet, I was so floored I asked the manager (once I had regained my composure and closed my mouth) if that guy said what I thought he said. The manager sighed and said yes and he hears stuff like that all the time.

    Someone remind me what year this is again, please.

  • How about all boricua vote in the US?

    Huh? I don’t understand the question. If they are legal residents of any State (other than MT and SD obviously), then they will already have had their chance to vote in the primaries as they will in the general. If not, then not.

  • I’ll have to go with libra on Obama’s wrap-up site. Just think—the next President of the United States, a Democratic President, will be signaling both his successful primary and the beginning of the Final Assault on Fortress GOP in the very place where McPhony will be annointed—three months to the day before the piece of antique baby-burning roadkill gives his “annointing speech.”

    The sizzling sound of freshly-napalmed GOPer will be most welcome in the coming months….

  • Major prediction…..more than 100 superdelegates AND Hillary Clinton will join Obama onstage Tuesday……let the GE begin!

  • libra, I think Montana has only 16 pledged delegates and South Dakota 15, or it’s the other way around…is that right?

    I’m predicting approximately 55-45% for Obama in Montana, but SD has had a surprising dearth of polls. I’m still definitely giving it to Obama, but I’m not sure by how much. Given the events of this weekend, I imagine they will want to step up and give him a big boost in the final day.

    (On a related note, only slightly more than 16 percent of puertorriquenos turned out today, a very poor showing. 900,000-1 million voters were predicted by both Clinton and Obama and less than 400,000 showed up. Looks like practically the whole island went to the beach or out for Sunday dinner instead. But congratulations to Senator Clinton on her victory.)

    Joanne, my mom is from Kentucky. She has been absolutely appalled at the way the state has…er…reacted during this primary season. She just keeps calling me up and yelling, “Did I exaggerate about my childhood situation?! No, I did not!” I laugh and remind her that West Virginia still holds the percentage title, because what else can you do? She escaped that mindset and she and my dad brought my sister and me up differently. In the end, that’s the best revenge, I think.

  • Apparently, the good folk in PR feel as un-enthused about voting in primaries (while not having a say in general) as I would have 🙂 From TPM Election Central:

    • Turnout was radically lower than anybody had predicted. A total of 380,000 ballots were cast, making up only a little over 16% of the island’s voters — well short of the 900,000 that both campaigns had once thought was a reasonable estimate.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    As for MN, I much prefer the symbolism of the Goopers having their convention in the place where the bridge collapsed – the best symbolism of the collapse of the not so Grand Old Party, hopefully forever. — MsJoanne, @11

    Yeah, sure. And having to land at “that” airport will remind them all about their “family values” as well (maybe Craig will give tours of the bathrooms). But that’s all their own imagery and there’s no cross-over with ours.

    But, Obama wrapping up there, 3 months ahead of time? It’s like a dog “marking” *his* territory 🙂 Remember how Chavez (the one from Venezuela) said he could smell sulphur when he followed Bush at the podium at UN? I can imagine all the goopers — McCain included — getting the scent of defeat when they speak there. Also, see Steve, @13, vis symbolism.

    BTW. I know that, *for US*, WWII didn’t start at the same time that it did for Europe. Still… It *did* start on Sept 1, the same day the gooper convention starts. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could have some ceremonies commemorating the start of WWII, to suck out some air out of their convention?

  • It really is a pretty clever move for Obama to speak at the GOP convention venue on Tuesday night.

    Not only is it peeing around the perimeter, as libra says (and our own Insane Psychology Professor will say it’s disgusting alpha male behavior, which makes a nice break from her complaining that he’s too femmy); it’s also going to color all the media coverage of the Republican convention. It’ll be: “When Senator Obama spoke here three months ago…” And everyone who watches Obama, lively and engaged and bright and eloquent, speaking in that room, will think of him when McCain is standing in the same spot fumbling his way through his lethargic I’m-Bush-but-I’m-not-Bush speech. Heh.

  • Holy cow, MsJoanne, nice work. As far as I can see, there’s really nothing in there that’s even remotely convincing. There’s health care, and the “experience” question, which is relevant, but experience w/o judgment isn’t anything (and that same person raises the “he hung out with Wright” issue).

    I mean, it’s far from illegitimate to prefer Clinton to Obama, but the whole cultist thing we’ve seen… let’s just hope it’s confined to the blogosphere and the couple hundred protesters.

  • Right, 15 and 16. Obama cannot win enough delegates to put himself over the top in the remaining primaries, even if he took every single delegate. Celebration is premature.

    Superdelegates can announce who they support, but they do not vote until the convention. The nomination is not decided until the convention when the voting by delegates takes place. Unless Clinton steps down, this race is not over until the convention selects the nominee. Clinton has not stepped down, so this isn’t over yet.

    Interesting remarks here about Puerto Rico and how it means nothing. Nice to see the way you guys disparage another key demographic that you will need in the Fall. You talk about Puerto Rico almost as if you didn’t understand the close ties between it and NYC and other large enclaves of Puerto Ricans living in major cities (more than on the Island), especially in the NE. You are dismissing 4 million people, many of whom voted in the states Obama lost, and all of whom are citizens by birth, which means they are eligible to vote in the Fall.

    Here is a group that Obama cannot win on the basis of his skin color, despite the shared African heritage, so he’d better figure out how to appeal to them, fast, if he is going to win in Nov.

    What does Hillary know that Obama does not? Shouldn’t you be wondering that? The superdelegates probably are.

  • There are not enough delegates left in the next two races to put Obama over the top even if he wins all of the delegates remaining. He cannot sew this up. The superdelegates can state who they intend to vote for, but they do not actually vote until the convention. That means, unless Clinton steps down, the race continues until the convention.

    Your nasty remarks about Puerto Rico ignore the fact that Puerto Ricans in the USA are 4 million strong and are citizens by birth, which means they can vote. They are strongly represented in NYC and in the NE states that Obama lost. Obama needs to figure out how to appeal to this demographic fast, and mocking them won’t help his campaign. The traffic back and forth between the USA and Puerto Rico means that the primary today is not trivial but a bellwether of how well Obama can expect to do with that group in the Fall. You should be wondering what Hillary knows that Obama does not about how to appeal to Hispanic voters, not making stupid jokes about how this primary doesn’t matter.

  • Hillary’s campaign is over. She is still in the race to prove something to herself. Obama will be the nominee because that is the will of the people. He is ahead because AMREICANS from all walks of life put him ahead. The difference is the naysayers are still screaming that Hillary can win. The reason Hillary supporters appear to be making a point is that we, the Obama supporters/winners, are sitting back relaxed and quiet. We’ll let Hillary have her last hoorah. After Wednesday, it’s back to NY. Too bad YSL has died, she could use the fashion tips. Maybe next time Hill & Bill, maybe next time.

  • On the topic of Obama’s psyche — isn’t it pretty obvious that he has abandonment issues and that he was looking for a surrogate daddy in Rev Wright, to validate his identity as a black man? You don’t have to be any kind of psychologist to see that one coming. The whole president thing is him trying to show his long-gone father that he does too have worth and shouldn’t have been left behind. How obvious could this be?

  • I feel like I’ve just watched 34 seasons of Search for Tomorrow without sleep or commercial interruption.

  • Hillary is still in the race because the race isn’t over. She is too close not to go to the convention. No one quits with the number of delegates she has. The idiocy here is that Obama supporters and surrogates have been calling for her to quit almost since the race began, so it makes it seem like she is doing something unusual. If you look at ALL past races, there is no precedent for a candidate quitting when they are in the position she is in now. It isn’t up to Obama, the media, Nancy Pelosi, or anyone else to tell Clinton when to quit, especially when she now leads the popular vote and Obama has not won the number of delegates needed for nomination either.

  • Mary said:

    Sorry for the double post — I didn’t think it got through.

    Actually it’s in your direction that things don’t get through.

  • Hillary supporters, let’s get one thing straight, no one has asked Hillary to drop out. What you cannot digest is that she lost. Period. And she was beat by someone the Clinton’s felt was not a contender. Who cares what she does at this point. The superdelegates will go for Obama and he will be the nominee, and she will not be on the ticket. Unlesss something tragic befalls him (which scares me when we are dealing with people as desperate, ruthless and cut throat as the Clintons) he will be the next President. You know, we always tell our children that they can grow up to be President. Obama believed what America was telling him and lived his life accordingly. Obama is a very worthy candidate and we should be proud of him. Isn’t this what America is all about? Or do we try to steal elections when we lose- just like Bush did. This time that tactic won’t work, Hillary. It just won’t work.

  • beep52, you crack me up.

    Just got off the phone with one of my undergrad roommates, now living in San Juan. She says–and this is of course strictly anecdotal–that the general feeling was that the race is over, it’s obviously Obama’s and most people just didn’t feel they needed to vote. She reminded me that they got considerably fewer people out to vote than they usually do, even though the primaries are usually long over by the time PR votes and it’s always a pro forma signoff on the candidate. Apparently they felt that this time wasn’t any differerent. Still, I congratulate Senator Clinton for receiving the support of most of the people who did vote.

    Say, has anyone else noticed that Obama now leads among Hispanic voters (as well as leading among men and women and tying among non-Hispanic whites and high school grads or less)? I was also heartened to see last week that Dennis Cardoza, cochair of Hilllary’s National Hispanic Leadership Council just went over to Obama.

    It’s nice to know that the majority of Clinton supporters can move beyond their first choice and coalesce around the nominee. Most Democrats really do care about Democratic principles and what’s at stake in this election.

  • If you don’t know what boricua means you aren’t going to win in the Fall.

    From the Urban Dictionary: “Boricua” means native from Borinquen (the island original name). This is similar to “Puerto Rican” which means native from Puerto Rico.”

    It is the term preferred by many Puerto Ricans as a matter of ethnic pride.

    You don’t know and you don’t care because multiculturalism is just a buzz word for you, and even less for Obama who apparently thinks you appeal to Hispanics by speaking bad Spanish to them. You have no right to make fun of ignorant Germans when you are little better.

    It rained today in Puerto Rico, which depresses turnout in many elections. Hurricane Arthur didn’t pass over Puerto Rico but may have affected the weather.

  • Mmmmm, I can hear Mary’s voice getting higher and higher and shriller and shriller and her breathing becoming more and more labored with every post. Tasty.

  • # 26, Mary wrote: “No one quits with the number of delegates she has.”

    Do you believe that people should be awarded a college degree because they almost got the number of credits needed to graduate?

    If you’re bidding against someone at an auction, their bid is higher and you’re at your limit, do you feel as though your bid is just as valid as theirs – that you are equally
    entitled to buy the item as they are?

    When you go to the store to make purchases, do you assume you’ll be able to buy things if you pay something “close” to the price or offer some other item you own instead of cash – and expect to be taken seriously?

    Obama will have the number of delegates required for the nomination, likely within days. He’ll be the highest bidder, he’ll have earned the needed credits, and he’ll have the right amount of accepted currency. Since he already has an overwhelming majority of delegates needed, Clinton cannot overtake him. Pretending that the race is still a contest isn’t accurate. If you’re driving towards a stop sign, do you assume there’s a chance that some other traffic sign will suddenly replace it simply because you’re still several yards from the intersection? Do you expect that since tomorrow has yet to arrive, the date could be something other than June 2?

    The argument that Obama hasn’t hit the final number “yet” was valid some time ago, but it is not valid any longer, in large part because Clinton has no way to gain the lead, including the false expectation that a few hundred superdelegates will flee en masse towards Clinton. There is a difference between magical thinking and reasonable possibilities, however slim. A Clinton win is neither reasonable nor possible.

  • Siobhan, the problem with Obama winning is not that Clinton will lose but that Obama will most likely lose in the Fall. He isn’t going to do well enough against McCain. He isn’t the best candidate to win the presidency.

    It saddens me to see former Clinton supporters give up on her candidacy, but that doesn’t mean that Obama will win. It means that he is picking the low hanging fruit. This race is going to be tough because he needs groups that he has difficulty attracting, groups that will be more likely to vote for McCain.

    For example, the co-chair of a Hispanic political organization is not the rank and file members of that organization and it is certainly not the people in the neighborhoods. Unless that guy can bring all of those others along with him, Obama has won one additional vote. That guy may be trying to promote party unity, but that isn’t what the average Hispanic person is thinking about when deciding who to vote for (or whether to vote at all).

    It’s nice that you are all so enthusiastic about your candidate. This convention is not to affirm the wonderfulness of Obama. It is to pick the candidate with the best chance of winning in the Fall. That just isn’t Obama. If he wins the nomination anyway, as it seems likely he will, that is a tragedy for all of us. Clinton will survive. She has the same strength of character as Gore and her husband and will be a grown-up about this. It is the country that will pay the price for our party’s foolishness. And Obama will be most to blame for the hubris that led him to shove aside Clinton and the other better-qualified candidates who ran this year.

  • mishte — the more appropriate analogy would be that no one quits college 3 units short of their degree, not that they are awarded it without those credits. Obama is being awarded the degree now, but he has not won the nomination yet either. Neither of them has.

  • I think Hillary needs to be ask more difficult questions? As a woman and a minority I find the whole sexist argument to be an escape goat, more caucasian women have benefit from the 1965 civil rights movement, than any minority, and Hillary has been nothing but privileged her whole life. Why does she not want to turn the page? Why are so many Illegals, Uneducated White Folks and Republican’s for Hillary and encouraging her to keep up this fight? Why do the Republican’s want her to be the nominee, so bad? Why is Hillary willing to disenfranchise so many Young people who wont vote if she is the nominee and African American’s? Does she really think the young people are going to vote for her? What about African American’s has she just written them off, since she’s playing the race card and now the sexist card? In speaking to young people, of all different nationalities they understand the dirty politics the Clinton’s are playing, and they understand why the Republican’s are so behind Hillary “Birds of Feather Flock together”. I use to love the Clinton’s, but I no longer have any respect for them. What is their point? Why do they need to get in the White House so badly? What are they trying to cover up this time? Would Hillary have fought this hard if Barack Obama were a white man, who was winning the nomination? This is not sexism, because I am a woman this is a voter who wants to know the truth? I also would like to know how much money the Clinton’s have made off the war in Iraq? (Bill does hang out with George #1)

  • libra, I think Montana has only 16 pledged delegates and South Dakota 15, or it’s the other way around…is that right? — Maria, @16

    Sorry, Maria, missed your post the last time around…

    I got my numbers — Montana 24, South Dakota 23 — from:
    http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/
    Maybe its pledged and supers total?

    Unlike many here, I am *not* a political junkie; I’ve hated politics ever since I was little (and my Mother and her friends spent an entire evening discussing the current events instead of the fact that I achieved my 6th birthday). I didn’t pay much attention to US politics — beyond voting, once I became a citizen — until 2000 (and didn’t get *really* pissed off until the winter of ’02).

    Perhaps all this Electoral College and delegate “stuff” is something that every American child can reel off from memory and understands perfectly but, to me it’s still an incomprehensible mystery. I was reliably assured that all I needed to know for the civics part of my citizen exam was the name of the president, the names of the Senators from my state and the 3 branches of the govt (that was before Cheney). And, at the exam, they didn’t even ask about the 3 branches…

  • mishte — I should have finished reading your confused post before replying to it.

    Obama will not have the number of delegates needed for nomination within a matter of days. He can only win 31 more next Tuesday and he needs 48, and that’s assuming he took every single delegate in MT and SD, something unlikely to happen.

    Obama and Clinton both have superdelegates who have announced support. These people can switch their votes back and forth between now and the convention. What counts is how they vote at the convention. Announcements are not votes. The only superdelegate votes occur at the convention. In fact, the only delegate votes occur there and the nominee is not the nominee until the delegates vote.

    Did none of you ever take a civics course? Didn’t you watch TV during the last presidential election. Don’t you know how our process works?

  • JoJo, 😉

    led him to shove aside Clinton

    Mmmm, is that the old kids’ latest euphemism for winning elections? I cannot keep up with your hip slang.

    Good night and sweet dreams, everyone. Mary, deep breathing. Deeeeeeeeep breeeeeeeeeeeathing.

  • Libra — that explains your confusion, but it doesn’t excuse anyone else. If others have had a similarly deficient education, that would explain a lot of the nonsense I’ve been reading here.

  • “Siobhan, the problem with Obama winning is not that Clinton will lose but that Obama will most likely lose in the Fall. He isn’t going to do well enough against McCain. He isn’t the best candidate to win the presidency.”

    Actually, he is.

    The only candidates left are Obama and McCain. McCain isn’t the best candidate; therefore Obama is.

    Why is that difficult to understand?

    Or does John McCain have some super-secret good qualities that I haven’t heard about?

  • Please check Real Clear Politics – Popular Vote Totals. With Michigan uncommited votes and the caucus votes Obama received, he is almost 50,000 popular votes ahead of her with two more primaries to go. I just wish the cable news channels would do some checking about her claims that she is ahead in the popular votes. Not if you include ALL the votes cast for her and Obama. Of course we all know that caucus states don’t count and Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot in Michigan. So she gives him zero votes in Michigan. I could be leading in the popular votes if I could make up scenarios the way she can.

  • Mary: The fact that a bi-racial man is going to lead the country has alot of people freaking out. Anytime something new is introduced, people are slow to embrace the concept. But, eventually we do. This time, AMERICA suprised us and let it be known that it is time for a change! People are finally being judged by their character, not their color. See what happens when we practice what we preach-American’s president can come from any religion, race and maybe one day, sexual orientation. Mary remember these words:

    Oh, beautiful for spacious skies
    For amber waves of grain,
    For purple mountains’ majesty
    Above the fruited plains.
    America, America,
    God shed His grace on thee;
    And crowned thy good with brotherhood
    From sea to shining sea.

    Obama will win in the fall because America is not a narrow minded as you think. He is part of the brotherhood we sing about. He deserves to be the nominee- not due to color but because the people have spoken.

  • Perhaps all this Electoral College and delegate “stuff” is something that every American child can reel off from memory and understands perfectly but, to me it’s still an incomprehensible mystery.

    Oh, quickly before I climb between rose-scented sheets and dream of the end of the Bush era…good lord, no, libra; that’s not something most of us know. We’re political geeks on these blogs, terrible dorks, so much so that sometimes we even joke that we’re fortunate to have found people to mate with us. (Sorry…in a silly mood tonight!) And your knowledge of the American political process, like your exquisite grasp of the subtleties and delights of English, far surpasses most Yanks’.

    Pretty sure it’s 15 and 16 for pledged dels in those two states; I’ve been counting the supers separately, but one doesn’t have to. You may like this site if you don’t use it already. But approach all those long lines of numbers with caution if you plan to get laid tonight–geek cooties, you know. 😉

    Night, all.

  • Oh Mary’s arguments are making my head spin. Clinton doesn’t have the necessary pledged delegates or super delegates either. She’s further behind than Obama. You keep saying that Obama will never win the needed number. Please explain how Clinton will?

    Oh no, nevermind. You’ll give me a headache.

  • He’ll be the highest bidder, he’ll have earned the needed credits, and he’ll have the right amount of accepted currency. Since he already has an overwhelming majority of delegates needed, Clinton cannot overtake him. — mishte, @34

    I do know and understand why everyone is avoiding the most obvious cliche; I really do. But, as someone who’s really proud of her achievements in learning colloquial English, I’ll say it anyway.
    Mishte, to Clinton supporters: close, but no cigar.

  • # 36: “This convention is not to affirm the wonderfulness of Obama. It is to pick the candidate with the best chance of winning in the Fall. That just isn’t Obama.”
    –
    I agree with you, that is not the meaning of the convention. But the convention IS the conclusion of the nominating process of winning the needed number of delegates thourh the primaries and caucuses. The convention formalizes the nomination when all those delegates cast their official votes. Yes, the vote could be different under extreme circumstances or emergency, not as a method to ignore the winner due to simple preference for the loser.

    I am astounded by the number of people who say “Obama can’t win” followed by “I’m voting for McCain or staying home if Hillary isn’t the nominee.” What these people don’t realize is the ridiculousness of their self-fulfilling prophecy. Unless, of course they’re voting for McCain because they agree with his policy positions, but that makes no sense if they’re Clinton supporters. Even less sense if they’re avid Clinton supporters. McCain is the polar opposite of Clinton in just about every way possible.

    If these voters want to see Obama lose for personal revenge, then they’ll vote for McCain in spite of themselves or what their candidate believes in and has championed throughout her career. Obama can’t win against McCain if enough Clinton supporters deliberately make that happen. But they need to realize that they have *cause* and *effect* reversed. That Obama “can’t win” is one’s reason to vote for McCain is the most ludicrous one of all.

  • Oh Mary’s arguments are making my head spin. Clinton doesn’t have the necessary pledged delegates or super delegates either. She’s further behind than Obama. You keep saying that Obama will never win the needed number. Please explain how Clinton will?

    Mary is pinning all her hopes on Clinton staying in until the convention and the superdelegates and/or pledged delegates somehow rising up and switching their votes to her en masse on the convention floor.

    And I am pinning all my hopes on getting a pony for my birthday! A bright blue one!

    Don’t tell Mary, because she’s kinda excitable, but I’ll be shoveling azure manure long before the delegates reverse for Clinton.

    Now I must stop doing the waiting for Godot thing and am-scray. Night!

  • Mary, you want us all to believe that if Hillary had 2071 delegates right now with two more primaries to go that she would be saying what you are saying? That no one has the nomination until all the delegates vote in Denver? You and HIllary’s other supporters wouldn’t be saying that she is soon to be the presumptive nominee? I think you would be clicking your heels and shouting hooray! Everyone knows that when a candidate reaches the magic number of 2117 or 2118, that person is the Democratic presumptive nomineee and the party’s nominee for President. Could the delegates take all of this away from Obama at the convention? Yes, I suppose they could if they wanted to destroy their party, but you know that is not going to happen, don’t you? Of course you could be praying for a really big Obama scandal that might cause the super delegates to change their minds. But have you ever thought about the scandals that are just waiting to fall on the Clintons if Hillary is the nominee? Don’t kid yourself. There is a reason that the Republicans were salivating to run against HIllary. You can always tell who the Republicans fear by who they attack on Fox News, and for weeks they have been attacking Obama.

  • As for Hispanics, if an Hispanic candidate was running for President, Hillary Clinton would be doing the same thing to that hispanic candidate she is doing to Obama…there would be no difference, they don’t want African American’s or Hispanic’s, or any other minority of color thinking they could be the leader of the free world. The current administration and the leaders of the free world have maintained power because they play Blacks against Hispanics, Hispanics against Asians, Asians against Indians from India, they play the Japanese against the Chinese, they play race against race and are only your friend when they need you to vote for them. It’s ridiculous the amount of minorities that have closed their eye’s to the truth…even those that call themselves Evangelicals and come from the religious sect have turned their backs on the word of God, in the name of predjudice and greed. Latino’s are voting against themselves, and their sending a message to their children that they can not be a leader as good as the “White Master” they serve. No I’m not predjudice, my best friends are hispanic. What President had experience running a country when they were elected into office, please name one? The whole experience issue is ridiculous on this note alone, GWB supposedly had experience running a state and look where it has gotten us. Just remember the whole world is watching, and maybe the woman’s right issue is big in America, but Hillary is going to have to deal with leaders from other countries (men w/many wives), who do not see women in the same light as western civilization and may not take her seriously, as they will a man, this is a fact. Look at Condeleeza Rice what has she accomplished? Are we voting for Hillary or a third term for Bill?

  • I hope Clinton pulls it off. I’d hate to see the superdelegate award the nomination to Obama. It will be a GOP victory if he’s the nominee.

  • #44: barbara tate said:

    “Please check Real Clear Politics – Popular Vote Totals. With Michigan uncommited votes and the caucus votes Obama received, he is almost 50,000 popular votes ahead of her with two more primaries to go.”
    –
    True, but they do have Clinton ahead by one calculation, that includes Michigan. Unfortunately, it excludes IA, ME, NV and WA. Hence: invalid.

    I recommend checking out the article in the Columbia Journalism Review from Columbia University titled: “The Inestimable Popular Vote Totals.” good reading.

  • Mary…let’s pin our hopes on a leader that has common sense and actually understands other cultures to get us out of the mess we are in as a country. Let’s pin our hope on the fact that we are all Americans that want to unite our country, and go back to being respected by the rest of the world, and we do not want a third term for Bush with McCain. Let’s hope American’s can overcome their bias and prejudice to remove the current evil that has strangle hold on this country, so we don’t have to worry about putting food on the table for our children, or lack of healthcare when we need it the most, or having a job that pays a decent wage. Obama is humble and has lived in poverty unlike any of the other candidates, he feels the peoples pain, don’t under-estimate what a humble man will do for his country…no different than Bill Clinton in the 90’s.

  • Obama slandered Clinton as a racist through surrogates and supporters who twisted innocuous remarks out-of-context that no one in their right mind would have considered racist, then the chorus of Obama supporters echoed the outrage to the point that no rational examination of those remarks could be made. Repeatedly, the supposed racism of Clinton didn’t stand up to scrutiny (pundits acknowledged that — this isn’t just my opinion), but the accusations whittled away at the % of African American supporters on Clinton’s side until it went from about 60% for Obama to 90% for Obama. Concurrently, African American Obama supporters applied major pressure to friends and relatives supporting Clinton to switch to Obama. Given the history of race-solidarity demanded within the African American community, that tactic was highly effective. We saw this same dynamic when African Americans closed ranks around OJ and Clarence Thomas (against Anita Hill). Maybe you weren’t around then. This was attested to by several of those superdelegates who switched, explaining that their constituents demanded it of them, their family was all for Obama, etc.

    That is Obama’s pattern, encourage the anti-Hillary garbage covertly but then issue statements condemning it later, to show that his hands are clean. Pflager just let us see what the Obama campaign is really like behind the scenes. Pflager wasn’t just some visiting preacher — he was a close friend and a person Obama had helped several times while a State Legislator. He said what he did because that is how Obama’s friends talk about Clinton when they think they are among friends.

    Here is Pflager’s apology. He said “I apologize for those who were offended…” He did not apologize to them, but FOR them. That is a non-apology apology. If you saw the video of it, as I did, you would have noted the defiant and disrespectful tone in which he made the apology — this was no slip of the tongue but an evasion. He is utterly unrepentent about what he said. Sort of like the speech where Obama flipped off Hillary and just as childish.

    But hey, he’s your guy and no one ever deserved each other more than Obama and you people.

  • Obama as the nominee ensures a President McCain. America will not elect a racist liar. Obama’s LIE of unknowingly attending a disgusting racist church for 20 years is laughable. You Obama fools are mistaken if you think your man can get elected with the Marxist left and black vote. There aren’t as many fools or suckers in America as you hope there are.

  • Right — neither Clinton nor Obama have the needed delegate total. So neither of them has this sewed up. Neither of them is the nominee yet. If Obama had this won, I wouldn’t be argued that he hasn’t. That isn’t the current situation.

    Many things can happen at the convention. The purpose of the superdelegates is to make sure the candidate selected is the one with the best chance of winning. It is to prevent a situation where public enthusiasm or some campaign mishap winds up giving the lead to someone who more experienced party leaders believe would be unable to win the general election. Before the delegates votes, there will be a ruling by the credentials committee about the remainder of the FL and MI delegates. There will be fights over the platform. There will be lots of lobbying of superdelegates, before and during the convention, with the intention of swaying them to support Clinton or Obama. If there is truly some “October Surprise” that Clinton has been unwilling to use against Obama but is willing to share with superdelegates, that may have an impact. If Obama cannot improve his standing in more than an occasional poll between now and then, it will have an impact.

    Clinton has shown her ability to keep getting votes even when the media have loudly proclaimed her finished. That should give the superdelegates something to think about. It is ironic that those of you who responded most to a phrase like “audacity of hope” are so quick to deny it to other people, especially someone who is so close to Obama in this race. Why is he the only person entitled to hope?

  • You people who are looking at the actual vote totals to dispute the claims that Clinton has received more popular votes than Obama are missing the point. Hillary is entitled to win the popular vote, therefore she did. Even if Obama received more votes. Not only is Hillary counting the votes in Michigan, where Obama wasn’t even on the ballot, she is also counting all those imaginary votes for her in her head. She wins the popular vote every time, as she is entitled to.

    More seriously, if we want to play the game of adding in more votes to count, Kos found more votes for Obama, which keeps him well out ahead:

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/29/21457/9858

    It’s a good thing the nomination is settled by the vote of the delegates as opposed to arguments over who won the popular vote (which is really meaningless when unsanctioned primaries which voters did not think would count are included, and when some states have caucuses instead of primaries).

  • “Clinton has shown her ability to keep getting votes even when the media have loudly proclaimed her finished.”

    It’s a shame Saturday Night Live is off for the summer. I could just imagine a skit in which Hillary is still trying to gather more votes to move ahead of Obama–after the general election has taken place.

  • It is dishonest to count all of the “uncommitted” MI popular votes for Obama. Since four candidates ran as “uncommitted” at least some of them would have been for Edwards, Richardson or Biden. That’s why Clinton has the popular vote — all of the votes for her in MI are clearly identifiable as cast explicitly for her. Obama’s votes are ambiguous and some percentage of them are certainly not his, especially on Jan 15.

    Obama claims to be a new kind of politician, but if that is the way he does his math, he is the same old kind — willing to lie and steal votes to get the nomination or make a false claim about the popular vote. Obama does not deserve any of the MI delegates awarded to him by his friends on the rules and bylaws committee. His name was not even on the ballot — by his own choice. There was no justification for taking votes made by the people and in favor of Clinton and giving them to someone they did not vote for at all. It is a mistake that I hope will be corrected at the convention.

  • Mary,

    Obama did not take any delegates or votes from Clinton in Michigan. Clinton received zero votes and zero delegates in Michigan as there was not a primary which counted. Even Clinton had previously agreed that this was the case.

    As there was no primary which could be used to pick delegates, the Michigan Democratic Party, which is heavily dominated by Clinton, not Obama, supporters, devised the compromise which was adopted.

    Obama had the votes in the rules committee to split the delegates 50:50. This would have been more than fair to Clinton considering that Obama would have probably won by around 4% if there was an actual primary here, and would have received over 50% of the delegates. He was being quite generous to Clinton in accepting the compromise promoted by the Clinton supporters at the meeting as opposed to going for the 50:50 split.

  • Mary must live on manure farm — anyone else would have run out of sh*t to shovel. (And a belated good-night to Maria.)

  • Once again, the democrats will surely snag defeat from the jaws of victory. And I’m a democrat. This party drives me nuts. RonChusid is exactly what is wrong with this party. Thanks Ron for telling us how MI would have voted for Obama- no wait they actually did vote, and because of our archaic DNC rules people are being disenfranchised.

    Regardless- I hope you all understand that as much as you all hate McCain, his party is not going to stay home on election day. Seriously, do you think that is going to happen? Red States will stay Red. Blue will stay blue and guess what McCain will win by a tiny margin by moving to the center. I know alot of Dems that are voting McCain should Obama get the nomination. Sorry guys, I know you drank the Kool-Aid, but alot of us are still looking at the issues.

  • WHO MAKES THE RULES??” THE REPUBLICANS!!

    The Republicans KNEW all along Hillary would be their strongest adversary in the fall,that’s why the Republican legislators in Florida voted to have their primaries early. ALOT of the Republican controlled media continues bashing Hillary,like saying she should bow out!!Why? Because she should follow the DNC “RULES!”THE ONLY “RULE” PEOPLE FORGET IS THE SUPREME COURT AND CONSTITUTION HAVE STATEDALL US CITIZENS HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE THEIR VOTES COUNT!!!WHO DO THE DNC PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE,GOD????
    Hillary won Florida FAIR AND SQUARE,and Sneaky Obama took his name off the Michigan ballot,because he knew by the polls he would lose!!!!!!!The only states Obama won,were “Red” Republican states,( they WANTED HIM TO WIN WITH THEIR “OPEN’ PRIMARIES),states like Colorado,Wyoming,Utah,etc. Those RED states will betrayhim in the fall GUARANTEED!! And no way will he win big states like Texas,Ohio,Florida..He’ll be lucky to win Pa., New York,and California also,because if you check the polls,Hillary supporters WILL NOT vote for him in the fall!!! Besides, John McKain is THE BEST Republican in A VERY LONG TIME,being a war hero!! Gee,I guess the Republicans will concede Illinois,Obama’s home state!! If McKain were as sneaky as Obama,he’d take his name off of the Illinois ballot!! David F.
    Pittsburgh

  • David F: We’ve been through this many times before, but in case you missed it, the Constitutional right to vote does not apply here. Primaries are essentially private affairs, sort of like an election of officers at the local Polish club.

    As for the rest of your claims. Obama is not some alien in an Edgar suit. “McKain” is not a strong candidate, many people think Clinton can’t win the general, and if your views represent the views of the City of Pittsburgh, I’m proud to say…

    beep52
    formerly of Pittsburgh

  • We saw this same dynamic when African Americans closed ranks around OJ and Clarence Thomas (against Anita Hill). Maybe you weren’t around then.

    Yes, Mary. We’re all seventeen years old and weren’t around during the ancient days of 1991.

    Just when I think you can’t sound any stupider….

  • But hey, he’s your guy and no one ever deserved each other more than Obama and you people.

    It’s what we like to call “the world outside your mental institution.”

    We’re all happy together out here, and we promise to bring you a new juice box if you stop throwing your tantrums.

  • Let the idiot go, he clearly is part of McCain’s spam-a-blog program. You have to feel at least a little sorry for someone too stupid to even spell his own candidate’s name correctly, don’t you? I wonder where he copied the rest of the rant from? For that matter, I wonder who taught him how to cut and paste and how his tiny brain managed to remember the process.

  • I’ve come to enjoy reading only the reactions to Mary, and not the original posts.

    All the best bits get pulled out, like a Reader’s Digest of Dumbassery.

  • Mary– I think you might find a more welcoming audience over at Hillaryis44 or talkleft. There are plenty of places for you to go and spin your madness where it would be appreciated.

    But here? You’re SERIOUSLY wasting your time. You must know that, right? That you’re spending hours writing to people that you cannot convince of Hillary’s superiority– we just don’t buy it. We won’t buy it. The facts are just not on your side. The only thing you have is emotion and belief and a love of hillary that is equal to your distrust and dislike of Obama. You’re not believable or trustworthy because of your very clear anti-Obama bias. Not to mention that ANYONE who says they’ll vote for McCain over Obama is completely and myopically insane.

    Give yourself a break and go somewhere where at the very least you can find some people to conivnce or commiserate with– that’s just not here.

  • related fake news

    HILLARY PROMOTES PARTY UNITY IN PUERTO RICO

    In her victory speech after the Puerto Rico primary, Senatory Clinton heeded the calls for party unity by focusing on the need for a Democratic victory in November. Rather than making claims for her own campaign, she looked forward to the general election.

    After thanking Puerto Rico “So-o-o much” for her impressive win, Clinton placed the primary result in a different light. She noted the value of her support among Hispanic voters for the campaign against John McCain. In strong and inspiring language, the Senator vowed to campaign vigorously for Barack Obama in states where the votes Hispanic/Latino citizens were essential.

    Turning her attention to the large television audience, she appealed directly to mainland Hispanic/Latino voters to go to the polls in large numbers to vote for the Democratic nominee, Barack Obama.

    homer http://www.altara.blogspot.com

  • HRC is DNC number 1 enemy, GOP is number 2.

    DNC and all the senseless uncommitted superdelegates need to make their mind up. What the hell are they waiting for? It’s blatant that HRC has no love nor respect for the party, and couldn’t care less if the party is destroyed.

    Nominate HRC and expect another strong-head Bush-like president.

  • Clinton Clue: Staffers Urged To Turn In Receipts
    02 Jun 2008 12:42 pm

    Clinton Campaign staffers and former campaign staffers are being urged by the Clinton campaign’s finance department to turn in their outstanding expense receipts by the end of the week. That’s a sign, to them, that the campaign wants to get its affairs in order soon. If Clinton were staying in the race, there’d be no real reason to collect these receipts now; she’d still be raising and spending money from the same primary campaign account. The campaign is in arrears to the tune of about $11 million.

  • Stephen, ha, yes, I did, after doing the

    “Shall we go?”
    “Let’s.”
    (They do not move.)

    thing for an hour. Thank you for asking!

  • Oopsie. But apparently I didn’t get enough sleep to remember to change my handle back. Busted! ROFLMAO.

    • Comments are closed.