Clinton, Obama make their appeal for unity in Unity

June 27, 2008

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton shared a stage in Unity, New Hampshire, today, and the good news is it wasn’t for a debate. The better news is they held a beautiful rally, with a heavy emphasis on unity, at the very first joint appearance since Obama secured the nomination.

Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton set off on their maiden political voyage on Friday, trading their rivalry from the presidential primary battle for a newfound display of harmony intended to set a fresh tone for any Democrats still harboring bitterness from their grueling duel.

It was a day of choreographed unity — their destination was a rally here in this small western New Hampshire town — with the two senators appearing together before the cameras for the first time. Three weeks after suspending her campaign, Mrs. Clinton renewed her endorsement and pledged to do all she could to help Democrats win the White House in the fall.

“Unity is not only a beautiful place, it’s a wonderful feeling, isn’t it?” Mrs. Clinton said. “I know what we start here in this field of unity will end on the steps of the Capitol when Barack Obama takes the oath of office.”

Responding preemptively to chatter she knew was out there, Clinton added, “To anyone who voted for me and is now considering not voting or voting for Senator McCain, I strongly urge you to reconsider,” urging her supporters to join with Obama’s “to create an unstoppable force for change we can all believe in.”

Clinton added that John McCain and Republicans hoped dearly that she would withhold her support for the Democratic ticket. “But I’ve got news for them: We are one party; we are one America, and we are not going to rest until we take back our country and put it once again on the path to peace, prosperity and progress in the 21st century,” Clinton said to cheers.

I was especially fond of this turn of phrase, which I wish I’d thought of: “In the end, Senator McCain and President Bush are like two sides of the same coin, and it doesn’t amount to a whole lot of change,” Clinton said.

For his part, Obama praised both Clintons. “We need them. We need them badly,” Obama said. “Not just my campaign, but the American people need their service and their vision and their wisdom in the months and years to come because that’s how we’re going to bring about unity in the Democratic Party. And that’s how we’re going to bring about unity in America.”

If you missed it, here’s Clinton’s speech:

And here’s Obama’s:

By all appearances, the event couldn’t have gone much better. The speeches were solid, and both looked comfortable and sincere. There were concessions about the intensity of the primary fight, but it certainly didn’t look like either held any grudges.

And while the vast majority of the Democrats on hand for the event were reportedly enthusiastic in their support of the Democratic ticket, a few holdouts remain.

Carmella Lewis, 57, a retired ad saleswoman and a Clinton delegate from Denver, was carrying a big “Hillary” sign. She came all the way from Colorado for the event, even though she didn’t believe in it, because she wanted to convey her support to Mrs. Clinton.

“As a politician, she’s got to try to bring the party together,” Ms. Lewis said. “But I have a gut feeling that something’s going to happen so that she becomes the nominee.”

Lewis attended the unity event in Unity, but literally stuffed her ears with tissue during Obama’s speech so she wouldn’t hear his remarks.

I guess reconciliation is a little tougher with some than with others. Fortunately, Carmella Lewis appears to be part of a very small minority.

It’s good that the party isn’t split. Unity is a poor substitute for hope but that’s about all we have left. It’s ironic that on this day of unity that I understand more about what the Clintons were saying about Obama and how frustrated they must have been. For instance his go along to get along approach makes me pretty certain he would have gone along on the AUMF if he had had to actually vote instead of just make a speech.

1. Fall in love
2.
3. Fall in line

2 would be get disillusioned.

Obama will be a good Democratic President.

  • Wow…she stuffed her ears with tissue.

    It’s sad when a citizen, particularly a Democrat, does the GOP’s job for them and censors the information they receive themselves. On the brighter side, I have noticed that most of these vocal anti-Obama “Democrats” are older, and therefore past the point where most people listen to them. Awhile back I thought respecting elders was important – but with elders like this nut and John McCain, now I’m not so sure.

  • It was a great event. I sure hope they will be a ticket. They both bring so much together that is greater than the sum of their parts. It was really nice seeing them together reacting to each other and laughing. At least for me, it really is the Dream Ticket.

  • Thank you, Senator Clinton! She did beautifully, and we’re lucky to have her on our side.

  • If Hillary had spoke with this power, without the stridency before, she would be our nominee. Makes me remember why I thought she would have been a better president than Bill. She HAS to stay in the Senate to temper Obama’s ‘moderate’ tendencies.

  • She HAS to stay in the Senate to temper Obama’s ‘moderate’ tendencies.

    Uhhh…I dunno about that. Mandates aside, there is very little to suggest that Hillary is more liberal than Obama. Remember, she DID vote for AUMF, and Kyl-Lieberman, and a flag burning law (or amendment?). She’s no lefty.

  • ReumeMan u r correct person

    Given 40 years of history all we can do is hope.

  • I have noticed that most of these vocal anti-Obama “Democrats” are older, and therefore past the point where most people listen to them — L’s D, @2

    Good grief! How old are *you*, if you think that someone 57yrs old is “past the point where most people listen to them”? Conversely: Do you think people take much advice from untested 18yr olds?

  • I am a lifelong Democrat and Hillary supporter, but you couldn’t pay me to vote for Obama.

  • I supported Hillary all the way. Now that it looks like she is out of the race, I feel just as strongly that I must oppose Obama with all of my energy. As such, I will be doing whatever I can to assist John McCain in the upcoming election. When and if the Democratic Party becomes the party it once was, or if Hillary should run in 2012, then I’ll come back.

  • Obviously, one of the strategies which will be aggressively pursued by the Obama propaganda machine is to suggest that all Democrats who oppose Obama are actually Republicans; the message being that all “true” Democrats will support the party’s hand-picked candidate, Obama. Well, I’ve got news for you; millions of Hillary supporters are much too smart to fall for such transparent propaganda. Get it through your heads — WE DON’T LIKE OBAMA; WE DON’T TRUST HIM; AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR HIM, PERIOD!

  • WE WISH TO GO ON RECORD AND STATE THAT WE SUPPORT BARACK OBAMA. He is our lord and savior, and he shall deliver the world from sin.

    Signed,

    Louis “racist and proud of it” Farrakhan
    The Nation of Islam
    Fidel Castro
    Raul Castro
    Hamas
    The New Black Panther Party
    Rev. “GD America” Wright
    William “the bomb” Ayers
    Raila “the butcher” Odinga
    Daniel Ortega
    Al “racial ambulance chaser” Sharpton
    Tony “the indicted one” Rezko
    Father Pfleger
    Oprah “I used to go to Obama’s church but got out just in time” Winfrey

    And various other racists, terrorists, dictators and indicted individuals.

  • PUMA:

    Party
    Unity
    My
    A$$

    Go to: http://www.riverdaughter.wordpress.com

    Obama is the perfect example of the classic politician, (of the worst kind) with the media’s full support. The media has turned a blind eye, to him, because, he is BLACK. The media just may elect him, a man with no credentials for the position. The media and the far left,will say, we finally have a black president. America is not a racist nation, see. America the new symbol for hypocracy.

    VOTE McCAIN IN 2008 — HILLARY IN 2012.

  • I have a question perhaps someone here could answer. I was reading through comments on the PUMA-PAC blog earlier today and noticed they refer to Barack Obama as *61.
    Judging by the level of venom and insults the PUMA writers leveled in his direction, I assume it’s something ugly.
    Could someone tell me what *61 stands for? I’m curious. Thanks.

  • The deep problem of Obama’s campaign is that he and his supporters do not want to face the political reality of their own conflicting desires. They both want to sweep to victory in November and they want to purge the party of anything connected to the Clintons, which includes all of the voting constituencies represented by that amazing and talented duo. The failure of the Unity Pony stems directly from that fantasy of majority status without majority support and the political work and compromises that go with cultivating that support. Thus, their model for unity is unanimity through elimination, purging the ranks of the unclean and unbelievers.

    They will not acknowledge that Hillary is a legitimate political actor and reduce her to an inhuman monster and enemy. They will not acknowledge that her supporters have sound, rational reasons for our support, and reduce us to mindless fools and spoils of war. They shift blame for their own choices and actions onto us and expect that we will cater to their whims.

  • My guess would be the asterisk beside Roger Marais’s home run record because no one wanted him to beat Babe Ruth. Meaning that Obama may be the presumptive nominee but he will never be the real nominee because he stole the nomination.

    I like the way Steve Benen edited above to say that the Clintons are valued because there cannot be unity without them. Not that they bring anything else to the party — just that they are necessary for unity.

    I also am beginning to see why Obama has been hiring Hillary’s staff people. With the latest one, he made a statement that she was the architect of Clinton’s health care plan. I believe that they are hiring these people because then they can pretend that Clinton herself was not responsible for her programs — that these were the result of her people and that Obama can gain the same expertise just by hiring her people. It undercuts Clinton’s wisdom and expertise by attributing these things to her staff. But, hey, look at all the unity happening today!!!

    I too will not be voting for Obama. I can’t bring myself to vote for McCain, but I will perhaps write in Al Gore. Obama has still done nothing to deserve my vote and I don’t give it away to people who use lots of pretty words but do nothing to support them, words like unity combined with actions that stink.

  • I am a member of PUMA and I don’t know what the heck *61 means. As to PUMA members having a low opinion of Obama, why of course we do. We like elections, not coronations; we like honesty, not deceit; and we are against sexism and racism.

  • Damn, this thread sure went off the rails, didn’t it? It seems some people aren’t really into the whole unity thing.

  • Remember when BITTER-gate broke wide open, and Obama tried to do damage control by mocking the brilliant and gifted Senator Clinton? Do you remenber what Obama said; “Who does Hillary think she is, Annie Oakley? Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!!

    Now Obama extolls Hilliary as the greatest thing since sliced bread!! GO FIGURE!! Throughout Obama’s campaign, his behavior has smacked of MENDACITY and ARROGANCE, and obviously nothing has changed with Obama!! Remeber NAFTA-gate ? !!

    President Lincoln had it right a long time ago when he said: “Honesty is the best policy!”, and also, “You can fool all of the people some of the time, and some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time!” .

    Obama, take not, McCain will win the big delegate key swing states such as California, Pennsylvania, and Ohio because the Reagan Democrats will never vote for Obama, who would surrender Iraq in June 2010 to Iran infiltrators, but rather will vote for Senator McCain who said a few weeks ago “I will never surrender Iraq.”

    “LOOK TO IT !!” as President Lincoln said a long time ago !!

  • I blame Obama for dividing the country. Bill Clinton and Hillary have run in two Presidential elections and two Senate elections, and in none of those elections did we see the kinds of divisions in the Democratic Party that we see now. The only new factor in the equation is Obama. If Obama were not a candidate, and all of the other Democratic candidates were running as they did, our party would be united and ready to defeat the Republicans. As it stands now, the Democratic Party and its radical left “Prince of Lies” do not deserve to win.

    McCain in 2008
    Hillary in 2012

  • Obama has to be a good Democrat before he can be a good Democratic president. Where is the evidence he wants to be that? The more he courts the center the less he appeals to those of us who recognize a real Democrat when we see one.

    There is a huge difference between someone who is a Democrat willing to work across the aisle (as Clinton has done repeatedly in the Senate) and a person who doesn’t know what his political views are (or won’t tell us what they are) and thus is all over the map, as Obama has been during this campaign. First, praising Ronald Reagan and the Republican party of ideas, then talking about the problem with social security, now hinting that Chuck Hagel or Colin Powell might be a good VP, then supporting a FISA compromise, now trying to woo the evangelical right away from Dodson, then winking at gay-haters while he holds telephone calls with GLBT organizations. That doesn’t spell Democrat to me. This is why a lot of us distrust Obama.

    Hillary and Bill control two votes — their own. Everyone else makes up their own minds. Obama is going to have to earn the trust of Clinton supporters. He won’t do that for me by attributing Clinton’s ideas (which I’ve heard her express way back) to youngsters he’s hired from her current campaign team, so that he can appropriate them for himself (or undercut her political gravitas now that she has made herself vulnerable to such looting).

    Phooey on Obama.

  • George Carlin said: “It doesn’t take much imagination to piss off feminists.”

    Obama shouldn’t take these threats and slams personally or seriously. Nor should we.

    😛

  • I am a feminist and I supported Hillary, but most of you are nuts if you think voting for John McC will “help” anything or prove some bigger point.

    As for Hillary’s recent eloquence, it’s always been there. Ears full of hate just don’t hear very well. On both sides of the contest.

  • Loyal Obama Supporters said:
    Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Adolf Hitler, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Tonya Harding, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, torturing kittens, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, HIV virus, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Lucifer, blah, blah, blah, Black & White Minstrels, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Betty Boop.

    Signed,

    John McCain’s Ballwarmer

    You tried this spamming all over YouTube already, “Loyal Obama Supporters” – may I call you “Conservative Fuckwit” for short? – and it was old and unfunny even then. You do realize that every time you post this drivel, the baby Jesus cries, a white baby is born with a cleft palate and your mother wishes she’d reconsidered her decision about the abortion way back then?

  • It doesn’t take much to piss off George Carlin either. Does that mean he has no imagination? So much for that argument.

  • George Carlin was 82. No one expected much of him in terms of understanding of women’s issues. What is Obama’s excuse?

  • “As a politician, she’s got to try to bring the party together,” Ms. Lewis said. “But I have a gut feeling that something’s going to happen so that she becomes the nominee.”

    This reminds me of the California cutie who was a Jerry Brown delegate in 1992, quoted at the Democratic convention that “if we just really talk to them about how good Jerry is, they”ll change their minds and vote for him.”

    Delusional Dingbats are amusing in their stupidity. Right down there with MaryTroll.

  • Fast Eddie, you do your master Obama proud. By the way, do you kiss your mother with that mouth?

  • Man, I must have watched a different event. I thought the speeches were flat. HRC tries to say the right things, but her heart just doesn’t seem to be in it. He tries, but it’s awkward.

    But really, who cares — it’s just theater. What matters is what voters do with their votes, and if they’re so brain dead and immature that they need their fearless leader to tell them to ‘it’s okay, you have my permission to vote for the guy who won.’ well, then we have bigger problems than Bush and McCain and Cheney FISA and Blackwater and Rove and…

    We are where we are. There are some big ass issues out there and this is no time to be suffering from hurt feelings. Geez.

  • I strongly encourage all Obama supporters to continue the insults, attacks and race cards thrown at all who support Hillary Clinton, as well as those who do not support Obama. It only strengthens our resolve to do everything we can to assist in the defeat of the inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless, divisive, racist black liberation theology believing, race card throwing Obama. Thank you for your cooperation.

  • Unity through purge — a perfect example from TMoore

    And here’s an example of damning with faint praise: “For his part, Obama praised both Clintons. “We need them. We need them badly,” Obama said. “Not just my campaign, but the American people need their service and their vision and their wisdom in the months and years to come because that’s how we’re going to bring about unity in the Democratic Party. And that’s how we’re going to bring about unity in America.”

    To translate — we need both Clintons — they work really hard and, here comes the reason we really need them, because without them we won’t be unified. We really need you guys because without you, you wouldn’t be here. This, from the master of eloquence? Thanks for nothing, Obama.

  • No Mary, because they no longer add any value to his excellent posts. For example, calling George Carlin “82” is either through ignorance (he was 71 when he died) or a malformed joke. Either way, reading your comments has not brought me a new perspective since the second time you posted your static opinions.

  • And you couldn’t have posted the correction? I guess it was Cyd Charisse that was 82. So what? It doesn’t change my point at all. He was born in 1937 and already too old to have been affected by the 2nd Wave of Feminism. So it isn’t surprising he made a stupid remark about how feminists have no sense of humor (as if feminists didn’t hear that every day, along with shut up and other variations on that theme).

    Why exactly do you think other people should be censored, instead of you just skipping what you don’t want to read?

  • Ah, the arrogance of Obama continues to show through. No way that I will be voting for him. He is a masterful politican and will do or say whatever is needed to be elected. Take it from the minister who has known him well for 20 years. Wright hit the nail on the head and while the truth may hurt, just think of how an Obama presidency will hurt the integrity of our country. The laziness of the typical US citizen – that’s most of you out there – is just follow the other guy and not take the time to learn about the candidate or the issues. If so, then you get what you deserve.

  • I am amused by Obama apologists who suggest we should not consider his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that we should ignore all racist and anti-American statements made by his close advisers and associates when deciding whether he is a suitable President, and only consider statements made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us to vote for him come November.

    We’re supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year “mentor and spiritual adviser.” We’re supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who has claimed that Wright was “lynched” by the media and compared the him to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading AIDS to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama’s friend and patron of 17 years, the convicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama’s equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama’s long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.

    How many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?

  • On June 27th, 2008 at 7:37 pm, Susan said:

    I blame Obama for dividing the country. Bill Clinton and Hillary have run in two Presidential elections and two Senate elections, and in none of those elections did we see the kinds of divisions in the Democratic Party that we see now. The only new factor in the equation is Obama. If Obama were not a candidate, and all of the other Democratic candidates were running as they did, our party would be united and ready to defeat the Republicans. As it stands now, the Democratic Party and its radical left “Prince of Lies” do not deserve to win.”

    Susan and all you other Hillary Die-Hards:

    I am a 57 year old, white, college-educated feminist, and up until almost the very end, I would have supported either Hillary or Obama. Or Edwards, come to that.

    I ended up voting for Obama in the NM Primary only after a lot of soul-searching. But I was still fine with Hillary, if she had won the nomination.

    As the months passed and the campaign continued, I became more and more disgusted with the Hillary campaign. Couldn’t stand Mark Penn and his influence. The campaign was making mistakes that the Obama campaign, with its disciplined line, just weren’t making. Hillary’s campaign was not disciplined in it’s spending habits. Running out of money. No consistent campaign message.

    But, I still would have voted for and worked for Hillary if she won the nomination.

    I am not an “Obama-bot” or whatever we supporters are called. Most, if not all, are serious Democrats who know the past 8 years have been terrible and that we, as Democrats, MUST support our nominee. Again, if it had been Hillary, fine.

    There is NO way that a true Hillary supporter, familiar with her goals and her past, could ever conceive of pulling the lever for John McCain. No TRUE Democrat, which I believe Hillary and Bill are, could vote for McCain.

    So, please don’t try telling us you’re Democrats.

  • So, I take it from these posts that four more years of Bush sound just fine and dandy for quite a few people.

  • Phoebes: Nice try, and a favorite of the Obama paid bloggers (i.e. saying that all those who do not support Obama are not “true Democrats”). It won’t work, however. What you fail to realize is that for millions of us, we know much too much about Obama to support him. Some Obama supporters, like you, say that Hillary supporters should support Obama rather than McCain because Obama’s policies are similar to Hillary’s. However, they are assuming that Obama’s policy statements are the only issues in the election. Yes, Obama claims that his policies are very much like Hillary’s, but being the most deceptive politician in my lifetime, how can we know if that’s true. But more importantly, before you analyze anyone’s policies, you must look at their character. Obama has shown, time and time again, to be deceptive, ruthless and divisive. If anything, Obama has shown himself to be more ruthless and dishonest than most. And, his 20 year allegiance to a racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser” destroys his pretense as a candidate who can bring America together. All we have left now, is a typical politician with little experience. For many of us, if the choice is between a centrist Republican with a Democratic House and Senate, and an inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless, and divisive Obama; we will vote for McCain. ******

  • Emily@40 – you should vote for who you want.

    I can’t argue with you because I don’t believe the things you write about Obama. Obviously, you believe these things to be true.

    I just don’t care any more to argue with the hard-core Hillary supporters. One of the wonderful things about our once-great country is that we each get one vote and we can use it whatever way we want.

    Vote for McCain, if you’d like. Just know that most real Hillary-supporters will vote for Obama.

  • To all of those people who say “McCain ’08/ Hillary ’12”:

    Who, do you think, will vote for Hillary in ’12? Certainly not the 18+million of Obama supporters, even the half-deflated ones, like myself.

    I would have voted for Hillary *this year*, had she won the nomination but, in ’12??? Whatever for???

    By 2012, we’ll have a 7:2 conservative Supreme Court, on top of Repub-stacked federal courts all over the country, as well as every department riddled with “career” functionaries who’ll be much more difficult to get rid of than the appointees.Hillary, taking over in ’12, won’t be able to reverse all of that damage (it may be hard-to-impossible to do, even now).

    So, what reason would I have to vote for her in ’12? What difference will she make to things I care about, *then*?

    By all means, cut your nose off to spite your face… But don’t expect me to follow you or your hard-baked spleen. And if I — 58yr old, white female — feel like that, how, do you think, will all the young and all the black people feel, in ’12?

    So, I’m asking you again: WHO, do you think, will vote for Hillary in ’12?

    Assuming that she runs, which isn’t a given; it had been hard on her this year, and she’ll be 4 yrs older the next time around….
    Assuming that she gets the nomination, which isn’t a given either; prior losers aren’t all that popular in the Dem party (vide Edwards)…
    Even with the above assumptions… And *even if* all the 18million who voted for her in the primaries this year, vote for her again in general elections in ’12 (which, again, isn’t a given, since there was some buyers’ remorse)…

    18 million votes in general election just doesn’t translate into “Madam President”.

  • OK, so here’s a link I kept from a much earlier posting here (sorry Steve, I didn’t keep your original link):

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/2/20/201332/807/36/458633

    I suppose if you’re a true Hillary lover and Barack hater, this won’t make much difference, but it remains the best piece of research comparing both of them and their legislative effectiveness.

    I too would have supported Hillary had she won, though I would have found it more difficult than I would have imagined when the nominating process began. Nevertheless, as has been pointed out, we cannot abide another 4 year of Bush. Voting McCain will guarantee more war, more deaths, more national debt, more erosion of the Bill of Rights, more tax breaks for the wealthy and the poor-be-damned.

    Are you really alright with this on the hypothetical basis that Hillary will be elected in 2012?

    If Hillary was the nominee, I would support her with money, phoning, door-knocking and anything else it took even where I don’t agree or like her. If you really have the position that you are OK with 4 more years of the Republican BS, then I can only believe you are actually Republican Trolls-in-Hillary clothing.

  • Great points, libra@42 and MichMan@43.

    My brain is just too tired tonight to write as well as you two do.

    Keep it up!

  • phoebes:

    I just don’t care any more to argue with the hard-core Hillary supporters.

    These aren’t Hillary supporters, hard core or otherwise. They are either Republicans stirring the pot, racists disguised as Hillary supporters to try and gain credibility for their otherwise vile racism, or people who think they are feminists but are really narcissists whose meds are not well managed. Or, they are just – thre is no nice way to say this – dumb and easily lead by the nose my one or more of the types above.

    Lets take Emily for example. . .

    Yes, Obama claims that his policies are very much like Hillary’s, but being the most deceptive politician in my lifetime, how can we know if that’s true.

    How do we know? Well, one way to find out if you dont trust his words is to look at how he has actually voted. As it turns out, on key legislation, Obama and Clinton have voted almost identically in the Senate. And you can look to the common groups and organizations that give ratings and – guess what? – they have very similar ratings from nearly every group, suggesting that they have voted similarly over time.

    You don’t have to like Obama; not everyone will. But that does not change reality: the reality is that he and Clinton are, in a very proven way, exceedingly similar on policies.

    So the real reason has to be about the person, not the policies: that you dislike him more than you dislike McCain.

    So please, troll troop, tell me what you dislike more about Obama than McCain (after all, for all practical purposes this is a binary choice – one of those two men will be the next President). Explain in terms that would be consistent with your affection for the Clintons (because almost all of the Obama-haters speak lovingly of both Hillary and Bill – and I’m with you there) why it is you think McCain would be a better President.

    Several ranters have mentioned that Obama is “deceptive” – and McCain isn’t? And Bill Clinton never was? Moreover, no one that has said that has given a single example of Obama’s deception – and simply changing political positions doesn’t count as literally every politician does, including both Clintons. So lets start with just this one claim – show me what you have.

    (1) give me an example of Obama’s deceptiveness
    (2) prove it with credible sites that substantiate the factual basis for the accusation
    (3) explain how it makes Obama worse than anything either Clinton has done
    (4) explain how it is makes Obama worse than McCain

    I absolutely guarantee that no one can make those 4 points stick. For “deception” or any other issue you Obama haters claim to care about.

    I voted for Hillary. I donated to Hillary. I have long liked Hillary more than Bill and think Hillary would be a great President.

    And I do not see any possible way that the next step in that sentence can be “but I am voting McCain.”

    I will absolutely be voting and donating to Obama.

  • I get it. Obama will not get your precious vote. Boo-effing-hoo. Now hurry up and join the republican party, as it suits you perfectly.

  • Dear Phoebes: Thanks for the old college try to engage all the bomb throwing “pumas” who pounced on this thread. But, you know, bomb throwers are not interested in dialogue. They are interested only in – well – throwing bombs – generally in a drive-by manner. Operation K-K-Chaos disrupts TCBR.

    Mary, of course, is not simply a bomb thrower. She’s just drafting off the comments of others in the thread. But, I would be remiss if I did not mention her splendid “confusion” of George Carlin and Cyd Charisse. It is too precious not to acknowledge. So what?! So what, indeed. And wouldn’t ya know it? Cyd Charisse was 86 years old (not 82) when she died last week. But, hey, these all are honest mistakes that anyone prone to sloppy, shoot-from-the-hip arguments could make. I suppose George Carlin is enjoying dancing with Gene Kelly again, while Cyd Charisse is yucking it up with Lenny Bruce?

    Mary says she’s gonna write in Al Gore’s name for president this November. That will be a principled and wholly unconstructive act. Sail on, Mary. You have convinced me that you will never support Obama, and you have more reasons for your position than Dubya has for invading Iraq (and all just as compelling).

    PS: libra, thanks for answering the “too old to be listened to” nonsense.

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  • Now that we’re beyond Hillary, we can look forward to the first female VP, Sarah Palin, to become the first female President of the United States in 4 years!

  • Wow. The conservative spammers are out in force today. I’m guessing that The Carpetbagger Report is an easy target for them because you don’t have to register to post. They’re easy enough to spot though:

    1. Look for a disproportionate number of anti-Obama posts. Does it make sense that about 50% of the posts on a liberal/progressive site such as this one would be talking down the Democratic candidate? Nope. It’s a targetted spamming effort, originating from a right-wing forum or site. “Let’s go over to [insert name of progressive site] and trash Obama.” The pro-Hillary line they take is a badly-disguised cover that enables them to take shots at Obama while denying that they’re simply Republican trolls, currently crapping their pants because their guy is sinking like a stone in the polls.

    2. The language they use is a giveaway. Obamabots, Obamatons etc etc. It’s the juvenile language of the right-winger blogger and try as they might to represent themselves as principled Democrats, the Limbaugh-like cliches can’t help but rise up like bile once they start typing.

    3. The absolute giveaway: Whatever specious and garbled points they make, somehow it always ends with ‘I’m voting McCain’. In the troll’s mind, he or she is cunningly disguised as a Clinton supporter (nobody will see that that ruse, eh?), who then lays out a perfectly reasonable rationale as to why they are making their carefully considered political choice. Unfortunately, in execution it tends to come out more as “Obama!! Scum!!! Trinity Church!!! Kill!!! Halibut!!!! Arrggghh!!!! …..Vote McCain”

    I can forgive them to some extent. The alternative is to stay on their own sites and talk up McCain and display enthusiasm for his candidacy. It can’t be easy.

  • Wow, this was an incredably horrible thread.

    Here we had a nice opportunity for Obama supporters to thank Clinton for her support and Clinton supporters to rally around the party’s nominee and thank him for his kind words.

    What we got was this?

    I have a hard time that there are actually human beings writing this stuff, on either side. What were you people raised by wolves?

  • As I’ve explained before here (in a comment that was perhaps overlooked), memory is not a tape-recorder and I do not have facts about Carlin’s exact age at my fingertips, nor do most people. Mixing up George Carlin’s age doesn’t make me wrong about everything, any more than the little slips you all make from time to time invalidate everything you post.

    Phoebe, when you say that you started out liking Clinton but became increasingly disgusted with her campaigning, that is what happens when you listen to Obama campaign garbage over an extended period of time. They complained about everything Clinton did, including all the normal things that every candidate (including Obama) does during a campaign. And when you only listen to Obama’s echo chamber, and all you hear is the same old crap over and over, of couse a weak-minded person will come to believe what they say — that Clinton is an unprincipled racist who will do anything to win. If you also listen to the Hillary-haters then you come to believe all the Vince Foster, Hillary founded Wal-Mart nonsense. Do you seriously imagine that you convince anyone that you made an informed decision when you say that you became increasing disturbed by the way Clinton ran her campaign? You are only saying that once you decided for Obama, you found lots of reasons to support your choice. That’s how the mind works and it says nothing about the merits of either candidate.

    Want an example of Obama’s deception? How about the time he said he had never heard any of Wright’s inflammatory sermons (despite sitting in a pew in his church for 20 years) or the time he said he didn’t know Rezko socially (before a bunch of people came out and said they had attended dinner parties where both Obama and Rezko were present, at their various homes)? Those are deceptions that matter. The smaller deceptions, like the time he “borrowed” another politicians speech and presented it as his own, or the time he claimed to be a law professor when he was an adjunct lecturer, or his claim that his grandmother was a bigot (even though no one who knows her has ever heard her say anything remotely bigoted) could possibly be honest mistakes, even if there is a pattern of them. Then there is the deception of saying one thing to one group while saying an opposite thing to another — as when he reassures the GLBT community via conference call that he is with them, while simultaneously reassuring the religious homophobes that he is with them too. And then there’s his “borrowing” of the details of Clinton’s various programs to fix the criticisms of his own, after running ads that contradicted his own programs on topics like health care and social security. Last night I heard Wexler, an Obama enthusiast, on Colbert (the replay), assert in all seriousness that Obama is a new kind of politician because you cannot pin him down as a Democrat or a Republican, because his views are all over the map, as if that were a virtue.

  • PUMAs,

    I am a former Hillary supporter. I think a lot of ugly, screwed up things happened on the campagin trail to BOTH of them. I think both Obama supporters and Hillary supporters are both guilty of behaving badly, especially in the blogosphere. I think as adults we can all step back and recognize this, take a deep breath and try to look at the big picture.

    As a nation we absolutely cannot afford 4 years of McBush. All signs point to the possibility that McCain might actually be WORSE than Bush. There are issues bigger than what happened in the primary– like whether or not McCain will happily charge us into WW3. A lot of us also realize that McCain could very well appoint 2-3 Supreme Court justices– that ALONE should be enough for folks to realize “Any Dem Will Do” over McCain.

    Hillary has gotten over what happened in the primary– and it all actually happened TO HER. It didn’t happen to you. If you care about Hillary’s life’s work so much it makes no sense to help a rethuglican like McCain become POTUS.

    Be angry. Be pissed. Be ready to hold Obama’s feet to the fire when he’s president. But helping to elect McCain? How can any self-respecting feminist progressive person consider that even for a moment?

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