Clinton-turned-McCain voters — a vocal minority?

The anecdotes are plentiful, and for those of us who want to see the nation improve, kind of scary. Hillary Clinton supporters, Democrats all, insist that they really are going to give up on the issues important to Clinton and the party in order to vote for conservative Republican John McCain. For news junkies, these voters seem to be everywhere — turning up on TV, starting websites, leaving angry missives in blog comment sections, and emailing reporters (online and off) with promises about their intentions.

Some of this, of course, is the media accentuating conflict. A Clinton supporter who stays with the party and throws his or her support to Barack Obama isn’t newsworthy, it’s expected. A Clinton supporter who betrays the party, ignores Clinton’s endorsement, blows off the issues important to Clinton, and throws his or her support to McCain is newsworthy, by virtue of its counter-intuitive nature.

Do these voters exist? Absolutely. Are they vocal? Clearly. Are they large in number, enough to affect the outcome of an election? Well, perhaps not.

Let’s start with the math. Clinton says 18 million people voted for her. That’s about 13 percent of the electorate. Obama wins about 80 percent of the Clinton supporters in a recent poll, which means that the coveted Clinton-for-McCain voters represent about 2.6 percent of the electorate. These voters matter only if they live in one of the 20 or so swing states — they’re not going to win Massachusetts for McCain. This means the total number of voters he needs to convince and hold onto is small. But Irma [a Clinton-turned-McCain voter] isn’t one of them; as it turns out, she doesn’t live in a swing state.

And even if Irma represents the views of swing-state Hillary supporters and hasn’t changed her mind yet, she may not remain in that camp for long. It’s true that over the last couple of months, polls that asked Clinton supporters whether they would defect to McCain found as many as 30 percent who were willing to do so. But these polls, taken in the heat of a Democratic primary fight, were meaningless. I agree with Kerry’s 2004 pollster Mark Mellman, who likens the polls of Clinton’s supporters at their keenest moment of disappointment to asking women (or men) in the middle of a heated marital argument about their Valentine’s Day plans. In the NBC post-primary poll, tempers were already cooling: Only 19 percent of Clinton supporters said they’d vote for McCain.

As my colleague Emily Bazelon has pointed out, if you’re a voter who cares about the issues Hillary Clinton championed, Barack Obama is your candidate. Now that he’s the only Democrat in the race, when he talks about the policy positions women care about, his is the only voice they hear.

The anecdotes notwithstanding, there’s growing evidence that there’s more heat than light surrounding liberal Democrats voting for a conservative Republican.

The LA Times had a good piece on this today.

Marilyn Authenreith, a mother of two in North Carolina, felt strongly about supporting Hillary Rodham Clinton in the Democratic presidential primary.

But once the former first lady quit the race, Authenreith switched allegiance to Barack Obama, mainly because she thinks that he — unlike Republican John McCain — will push for universal healthcare.

“I can’t understand the thinking of how someone would jump from Hillary to McCain,” she said. “It doesn’t make any sense.”

Now that the Democratic marathon is over, Clinton supporters like Authenreith are siding heavily with Obama over McCain, polls show. And Obama has taken a wide lead among female voters, belying months of political chatter and polls of primary voters suggesting that disappointment over Clinton’s defeat might block the Illinois senator from enjoying his party’s historic edge among women.

The rancor peaked two weeks ago with televised images of furious Clinton loyalists protesting a Democratic Party meeting in Washington to settle a dispute over Florida and Michigan delegates.

“There are women still struggling with a real sense of grief that Hillary is not the nominee,” said Maren Hesla, who runs campaign programs for EMILY’s List, a group that promotes female candidates who support abortion rights. But that sense “will grow smaller with every day that passes from the nomination battles.” […]

“Women are voting for Obama because they dislike [President] Bush, they dislike McCain, they dislike the war, and they’re upset about the economy, and those facts override any concerns about the Clinton-Obama primaries,” Democratic pollster Mark Mellman said. […]

An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll found a wide gap last week: Women favored Obama over McCain, 52% to 33%. The survey also found that voters who cast ballots for Clinton in the Democratic primaries preferred Obama over McCain, 61% to 19%.

Something to keep in mind.

Mark Mellman, who likens the polls of Clinton’s supporters at their keenest moment of disappointment to asking women (or men) in the middle of a heated marital argument about their Valentine’s Day plans.

For the love of god can we start a campaign to eliminate marriage analogies when talking about politics, especially when it involves Hillary Clinton? The “first wife” and “take out the trash” stuff was annoying enough coming from the other side, do the Dems have to do it now? Please make it stop, it is sexist and stupid.

Otherwise, happy Monday. Have a nice week;>

  • Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no
    account be allowed to do the job.

    ~~ Douglas Adams, author of the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy series.

  • Macbeth on the dwindling influence of McClinton dead-enders:

    …it is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.

  • I listened to an NPR interview of a woman who supported Clinton but said she would now vote for McCain. The questions were quite probing, and what I heard was clearly a McCain supporter who had decided to support a woman candidate, and was now reverting to form. Either that, or perhaps she just couldn’t bring herself to vote for a non-white canidate. When pressed about key issues such as abortion and the Iraq war, she said she had been in protests supporting the right to choose and opposing the Viet Nam war, but apparently McCain’s established opposition to her core principles was not enough to drive her away. Somehow, Obama’s seeming lack of experience weighed more heavily than McCain’s record of failure.

  • In fact Clinton-to-McCain voters are a non-story, if significance is one of the signifiers of what’s newsworthy – but I suppose we need to be reassured that whatever noise we hear from those people can easily be ignored.

  • What this article is clearly ignoring is the Independent factor. Many Indies will be voting McCain when faces with the choice between Obama and McCain. Country first!

  • What this article is clearly ignoring is the Independent factor. Many Indies will be voting McCain when faces with the choice between Obama and McCain. Country first!

    Right. That’s why Obama is already leading McCain in the Gallup poll of independents.

    And if you’re going to pretend to be an independent, don’t equate voting Republican with an attitude of “country first!”

  • Country first?

    Anyway, it’s not just Independents, but some Republican women who may have had a yearning to see a female President. This might be analagous to a recent article I read showing that black conservatives are torn about voting for or against Obama.

    In the case of Republican women, Obama wasn’t going to have them in the first place, so he’s not “losing” them now.

  • Babies screaming, holding their breath until they turn blue and kicking their heels on the ground = Not news.

    Adults screaming, holding their breath until they turn blue and kicking their heels on the ground = News.

    Maybe I’m missing something but I really could not give a flaming damn about these people. It’s their right to vote for whoever the hell they want but I don’t see why they have to tell everyone about it.

    However, I think it it’s interesting that these fervent devotees of Hillary are promising to vote for McCain rather than write her in. How will anyone be able to pick out their “I love Hillary!” votes from the common or garden McCain supporters? Kind of makes you wonder where their real allegiance lies.

  • Simply put, people who would vote for Clinton but have switched to supporting McCain are voting on personality and ability, not policies.

    They want the right Person to be President, not the right Policies.

    These of course are the type of people who thought they’d rather have a beer with Boy George II than John Kerry, even though BGII is an alcoholic who isn’t allowed to drink (one does not argue with the killer Laura Bush).

    Obama (and Obamamites) need to focus on convincing these voters that HE too could be the “Right Person to be President” and then he can start arguing about policies.

  • My neighbors had a Hillary Clinton sign in their yard. They happen to be a gay couple. I was talking to one of them the other day and asked who he would be voting for now that Hillary was out of the race. He said he doesn’t trust Obama. When I pressed him as to why he could not articulate a real reason. Just a feeling. He said he is going to learn more about both McCain and Obama before making a decision.

    I have no proof, but in his case I think it may simply come down to Obama’s race.

  • Hardly scientific, but read the messages posted on some of the pro-Clinton websites. Hundreds of messages all posted by only a few people. They sound like either, Republicans spouting talking points to stir trouble or that looney bunch who post to tv show message boards threatening to “NEVER watch Project Runway again!” because a designer they like got eliminated. I’ve also noticed whenever NPR interviews them they always sound like Republicans masquerading as Democrats. Their comments never make any rational sence.

    Had Hillary Clinton won the nomination I have a strange feeling many of these women would mysteriously turn into the Republicans’ “Security Moms” in the general election. The Democrats shouldn’t waste their time on a few who would most likely vote Republican regardless who their nominee was…and the media should stop indulging a handfull of attention seeking loudmouths.

  • It seems like a small number of people are making a lot of noise in hopes of getting Clinton on the ticket as VP. Sometimes I wonder if this is being orchastrated by people in the Clinton campaign.

  • He said he doesn’t trust Obama. When I pressed him as to why he could not articulate a real reason. Just a feeling.

    Thank you, Hillary. What a fine campaign she ran, where (it seemed) half the time was spent calling Obama a charlatan. Now we get to try to unpack the rubbish she stuffed in a lot of heads. Even when she tells them to support the guy, they continue to think he’s untrustworthy, because… she told them he was.

  • I think we can count on some of the “Operation Chaos” people to continue to act like Clinton supporters. I’d be real surprised if Rush didn’t tell them to go out and act like converts to McCain.

  • responding to GP in number 4 – the woman I heard interviewed on NPR is from ATLANTA. She said she has always voted for Democratic candidates, but would be voting for McCain. She is smart enough to be an attorney but not smart enough to figure out she lives in a very red state where her vote does not even matter. The NPR reporter was too kind in not pointing out this little issue.

  • As an aficionado of wingnut watching who enjoys sites like Sadly, No, I’ve been observing that many of the most common anti-Obama/pro-McCain commenters on TalkLeft, Taylor Marsh and No Quarters also tend to regularly use rightwing talking points and reference places like the New York Post and Fox.

    I really think many are GOP trolls doing their best to provoke Democratic divisions. Real Democrats just don’t use that language and news sources.

    Beware of trolls.

  • You bet we’re going to vote for McCain in November. Better a centrist Republican, than an inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless, divisive, racist black liberation theology believing, terrorist befriending race card throwing Obama.

  • So the Gallup poll bounce for Obama has disappeared and his numbers seem to be sinking yet you guys are still in denial over the fact that to a lot of people he is an inexperienced man who is more hype than substance.

    And again when people tell you they are not voting for him because they don’t think that he has the experience or the abillity- you are reduced to false claims of racism. Which only has the efffect of turning off more people since do we really want 4-8 years of this deluded bunk from arrogant followers of the latest trend.

    Your policy arguments are also more specious than you are willing to realize. People knew what Hillary’s priorities were- healthcare- children etc,. Obama’s speeches are full of nothing but meaningless platitudes and while he has poilicies on his website they are really nothing but expanded versions of those platitudes with a little substance sprinkled in.
    The fact is though that he has deliberately not revealed anything about his priorities. He says nothing about what issues he will tackle first – about which ones he doesn’t think are important and will therefore compromise on.
    When you ask his supporters tell you that you must trust the “great Obama’ to do everything right.
    Some of us actually aren’t subsumed in fan worship- so this answer is woefully inadequate.
    So the claim that he and Hillary are identical in policies misses the whole point that priorities and the issues that the president will fight for are what really matters.

    So you guys don’t understnad why McCain has appeal for most people who vote for individuals not parties. He is a known quantity with experience and while all his policies aren’t what I would necessarily agree with- no candidates ever are. More importantly he has shown himself to be a man willing to compromise and work out bipartisan solutions on all issues including judges. Given that a democratic controlled congress is pretty much a given, a republican president willing to work with congress is probably the best choice for those who want moderate balanced government.

    So for the first time in 20 years- I am likely to vote Republican this year.

  • “…racist black liberation theology believing, terrorist befriending race card throwing Obama.”

    As I said, obviously a GOP troll taking a moment away from Rush to try and stir up trouble. Democrats would not use any of those phrases.

    Right Fred? How is Sean Hannity these days?

  • You bet we’re going to vote for McCain in November. Better a centrist Republican, than an inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless, divisive, racist black liberation theology believing, terrorist befriending race card throwing Obama.

    Wait, there’s a centrist Republican running? John McCain has a lifetime rating of 82% from the American Conservative Union, and as Paul Krugman noted, he has the eighth-most conservative record in the Senate.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/mccains_acu_ratings.html
    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/bore-gush-revisited/

    As for all your descriptions of Obama, if you’re going to pretend to ber a disaffected Democrat, you might want to lose about 80% of the Fox News talking points. Only a Republican is stupid enough to believe that bullshit.

    Sorry, we’re not buying. But run along and collect your trolling points from McCain HQ. Maybe you can get some campaign-themed golfing gear!

  • When you ask his supporters tell you that you must trust the “great Obama’ to do everything right.

    What a wonderful straw man you’ve constructed there. I’ve read countless statements from Obama supporters about why they’re pulling for him, and I have never once heard something as stupid and banal as that.

  • And for those who categorizes as a republican troll or racist every single person who tells you that they would have voted for Hillary but now will vote for McCain, I would just point out that you guys made the same claim when we tried to tell you that Obama was going to lose both in Ohio and Pennsylvania. You were sure then that we were republican trolls instead of educated democratic voters. You underestimated how many of us there were then because you couldn’t break out of your bubble- and it looks like you are going to do it again.
    I would almost feel sorry for you if you guys didn’t act so arrogant and obnoxious by refusing to even listen let alone give credence to arguments that don’t coincide with your tunnel vision world view.

  • I get it! Right Said Fred.

    taliarr, if it makes you feel any better, I really don’t care who you vote for and I don’t think lack of support for Obama = racism. I think it’s wonderful that we can vote or not vote as we see fit. But I do encourage you to write Hillary in so there will be a record of the level of support for her. It will serve as a warning to the next Obama.

  • What the hell are you talking about? Obama was trailing in Ohio and Pennsylvania from the beginning, had both governors and their state organizations working for his rival … who was insisting he was going to win either?

    You want us to give credence to your arguments? Fine, then make one. aying you’re not impressed by people who beleive Obama is the messiah isn’t a credible argument because NO ONE IS FUCKING SAYING THAT.

  • You were sure then that we were republican trolls instead of educated democratic voters.

    You might be a Democrat, but “educated” doesn’t seem a good description. If you think McCain — who’s said he wants right-wing judges like Thomas and Alito — is going to be a compromiser when it comes to court appointments, you’ve been living under a rock.

    And if you claim that the issues a president will fight for are what’s important, how in God’s name can you vote for McCain (whose issues are 100% the opposite of Clinton across the board) and not Obama (whose issues are virtually the same as Clinton across the board)?

    You should be embracing the suggestion that you’re a republican troll. At least that implies you have a clue as to what you’re doing.

  • The fact is though that he has deliberately not revealed anything about his priorities. He says nothing about what issues he will tackle first – about which ones he doesn’t think are important and will therefore compromise on.

    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/05/obamas_priorities_for_first_10.html

    So you guys don’t understnad why McCain has appeal for most people who vote for individuals not parties. He is a known quantity with experience and while all his policies aren’t what I would necessarily agree with- no candidates ever are.

    How can you tell what McCain’s policies even are? He flips almost daily. After lambasting Obama with (demonstrably false – learn to use a Google) claims that his policies are vague, you prop up McCAIN, after what he’s been doing??

  • Nobody except rightwing talk radio listening fanatics would use a term like “…terrorist befriending…” to describe Obama. No where except in extremist wingnut circles are those words even heard.

    You give yourselves away by the language you use.

  • I have to say, I’m impressed with the comments for this post (excluding the trolls, of course). I’ve been hearing the same Hillary supporters will vote for McCain out of spite argument since Obama clinched the nomination.

    It’s a position I can’t quite wrap my head around. News outlets have gone out of their way to find the most stupid sounding women to interview about this. The discussion afterwards devolves into ‘Look at all these hysterical women! They can’t even vote for their own political party or self interests because they let their emotions get in the way. Hell hath no fury, etc, etc.’

    It’s refreshing to hear people have a reasonable discussion and admit that if these people do exist, they’re certainly a small minority.

  • VT Idealist said: “I’ve been hearing the same Hillary supporters will vote for McCain out of spite argument since Obama clinched the nomination.”

    I’ve actually been reading TCBR for a fairly long time, and most of the regulars who supported Clinton have declared their intent to vote for Obama.

    Most of the Clinton to McCain commenters seem to be new to here.

  • Not only are they a small minority, but — something nobody is mentioning — they will be more than balanced off by the Huckabee supporters — who kept voting for him long after the nomination is settled — who choose Obama over McCain because they recognize that Obama is someone who really feels his own faith while McCain is truly secular and, when it comes to Christianity, knows the words, but can’t get the music right.

    As for the RRers who will stay home instead of voting for either choice, they’ll be ten times either group, which is why Obama will do better in Appalachia than most people think. (Much of the anti-Obama votes in these area, I’ve always felt, were driven by religion rather than racism. These are the people who not only tithe, but then send even more of their meagre income to ‘name it and claim it’ type preachers. Some of their preachers preach racism, more just conservatism, but they aren’t going to be ‘driving their flocks to the polls for McCain — see above.)

  • Not only are they a small minority, but — something nobody is mentioning — they will be more than balanced off by the Huckabee supporters

    Huckabee’s supporters and nothing compared to Ron Paul. He’s going to be this year’s Nader.

  • Well, there’s always Mary and Greg (where’s he been lately?).

    Some moron was on NPR last week about how she became a lawyer through the women’s movement, marched against the Vietnam war, was active in civil rights and women’s rights the past 40 years, and she was now going to vote for McCain to “punish” the Democrats for their “misogyny.” I hope she climbs off that branch quietly, because she’s sawing off 40 years of her life to do that.

  • Better trolls, pleaseI

    We need a requirement here that our trolls have a minimum 2-digit positive-number IQ before they are allowed to blather on.

    But “Taliarr” needs to be complimented for his clear demonstration that computers are now so user-friendly that bipeds lacking frontal lobes and opposable thumbs can post just like actual human beings.

  • FROM CLINTONDEMS.COM – Yesterday’s revelation that Barack Obama is planning to move a large portion of the DNC operations to his home town of Chicago has set off all kinds of alarms at Clinton Dems. This is disturbing on so many levels. Chicago is widely known for corrupt “Machine Politics” and stokes our worst fear that “The Chicago Machine” is going national. Four of the last seven Governors of Illinois have been indicted for corruption and an effort is already underway to impeach Governor Blagojevich for activities uncovered during the trial of Obama’s long-time fundraiser Antoin “Tony” Rezko.

    The Rezko trial has uncovered a complex network of cronies, and patronage – and a shockingly large number of them have had relationships on some level with Barack Obama. Do we want the appearance, real or imagined, that these corrosive elements will be influencing our party at the most fundamental levels?

    A good number of us already suspect that this has been taking place. Please contact Howard Dean and especially all representatives on the Delegate List in your state and tell them that you strongly oppose this move. Express your concern about the direction of the Democratic Party.

    http://www.clintondems.com

    Washington Post
    In a major shake-up of the Democratic Party, much of the Democratic National Committee will soon be toddling to Chicago and relocating in presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama’s Michigan Avenue headquarters.

    The move may be unprecedented. Under Paul Tewes, an Obama field general who joined the DNC only last week, the heart of the DNC’s political department will move from Capitol Hill to Chicago, Democratic Party officials said.

  • The problem I have with Obama’s 20 year attendance at Trinity United Church is that Rev. Wright, by his own admission, preaches black liberation theology, which is a very racist theology based upon the conflict between the “black oppressed” and the “white oppressor”. That is why, for example, Rev. Wright portrays Jesus as black, and his murderers as “garlic nosed”“white people,” because that is the only way that the story of Jesus will fit with his theology. That is also why so many of his statements are framed as black and white issues (e.g. “rich white people”; Natalie Holloway was a “white girl” who “gave it up” on an Aruba beach; 9/11 was a wake-up call to “white people”; the “garlic nosed” Italians in the time of Jesus who killed Jesus were “white people”). Consistently making the point that Jesus was black and his murderers were white is very much like the bigoted fundamentalist Christians who continually make the point that the “Jews killed Jesus.” We all know what that is code for; that means that the Jews are evil, as a group, and responsible for the murder of Jesus. Rev. Wright, Obama’s 20 year “mentor and spiritual adviser,” is guilty of the same type of bigoted rhetoric.

    Finally, what I object to most is the framing of the issues by black liberation theologists. There is simply no excuse for calling white people “the devil” or the “white enemy.” Those who developed this theology could just have easily framed it as a struggle between, for example, the “oppressors” and the “oppressed,” or the “ruling elite” against “the rest of us.” But no, they had to make it a racial thing, instead. And that’s why those who follow this belief system in accordance with the teachings of James Cone, as does Rev. Wright and his church, are following a racist creed.

    Just for the heck of it, here are some additional quotes from James H. Cone, founder of Obama’s so-called “religion”:

    (1)“To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people.” (2) “While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism.” (3) “All white men are responsible for white oppression.” (4) “Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man “the devil.” (5) “If there is any contemporary meaning of the Antichrist, the white church seems to be a manifestation of it.”

    Church website where they acknowledge they preach Black Liberation Theology ala James H. Cone
    http://tinyurl.com/5q7rjk

    YouTube: Jesus was a poor black man
    http://tinyurl.com/56deo2

  • Where is HRC these days? I thought she said she was going to campaign for Obama. She could stop this mess in a heartbeat.

  • I think it’s cute that Fred believes anyone here gives a shit.

    Go peddle your nonsense over at Free Republic or Little Green Fascists. They think Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are terrific too, and share your talking points.

  • . . .And the hits just keep on coming. . . RACIST HATE GROUP ENDORSES BARACK OBAMA

    Looks like Barack Obama has many “crazy uncles.” The New Black Panther Party, a virulently anti-white racist hate group, had an endorsement of Obama posted on the Barack Obama campaign website. Someone was definitely not minding the store, so to speak, in Obamaville.
    Spend more than a few minutes on the New Black Panther Party website and you’ll conclude that its members are intensely racist, they despise white people, they despise America, they hate Jews with a passion and they all have been, or currently are, disciples of Louis Farrakhan.

    “It’s the game of politics,” the NBPP’s Malik Zulu Shabazz told WND. “The Obama camp’s move to remove our blog doesn’t mean much because I understand politics. We still completely support Obama as the best candidate.” Shabbaz, who has given scores of speeches condemning “white men” and Jews, said today Obama “is the best guy to bring the kinds of racial changes supported by our community at the New Black Panthers.”
    Speaking to WND, Shabazz referred to Obama as a man with a “Muslim background, a man of color.” The NBPP’s official platform states “white man has kept us deaf, dumb and blind,” refers to the “white racist government of America,” demands black people be exempt from military service and uses the word “Jew” repeatedly in quotation marks.
    The NBPP’s deceased chairman, Khallid Abdul Muhammad, a former Nation of Islam leader who was once considered Louis Farrakhan’s most trusted adviser, gave speeches referring to the “white man” as the “devil” and claiming that “there is a little bit of Hitler in all white people.”

    http://tinyurl.com/5o6enc

  • To get a little insight into these people, may a quick visit to hillaryis44.org today and read the way they have chosen to address Tim Russert’s death. They sound like a truly unhinged group of people…and to honest just plain creepy.

    http://www.hillaryis44.org/

  • I think it’s cute that Fred believes anyone here gives a shit.

    Seriously. Keep flailing in your pigshit, troll. It’s adorable!

  • OBAMA: FIRST TO PLAY THE RACE CARD — Philadelphia Inquirer

    Obama and his surrogates have charged that Hillary Clinton has deliberately played the race card in order to label Obama the “black” candidate. Having injected racial posturing into the contest, Obama’s “post-racial” campaign finally seems to be all about race and sensational charges about white racism. But the mean-spirited strategy started even before the primaries began, when Obama’s operatives began playing the race card – and blamed Clinton.
    Had she truly conspired to inflame racial animosities in January and February, her campaign would have brought up the Rev. Wright and his incendiary sermons. But the Clinton campaign did not. Instead, she had to fight back against a deliberately contrived strategy to make her and her husband look like race-baiters. Obama’s supporters, including his chief campaign strategist David Axelrod, seized on accurate and historical statements and supplied a supposedly covert racist subtext that they then claimed the calculating Clinton campaign had inserted.
    The Obama campaign and its supporters pressed this strategy after Clinton’s unexpected win in New Hampshire. Pundits partial to Obama instantly mused that their candidate lost because of supposedly bigoted New Hampshire whites who had lied to pre-primary pollsters – an easily disproven falsehood that nevertheless gained currency in the media.
    Next morning, Obama’s national co-chair, Jesse Jackson Jr., cast false and vicious aspersions about Clinton’s famous emotional moment in New Hampshire as a measure of her deep racial insensitivity. “Her appearance brought her to tears,” said Jackson, “not Hurricane Katrina.”
    Obama’s backers, including members of his official campaign staff, then played what might be called “the race-baiter card.” Hillary Clinton, in crediting both Lyndon Johnson as well as Martin Luther King Jr. for the Civil Rights Act in 1964, had supposedly denigrated King, and by extension Obama. Allegedly, Bill Clinton had dismissed Obama’s victory in South Carolina by comparing it to those of the Rev. Jesse Jackson in the 1980s. (In fact, their electoral totals were comparable – and in the interview at issue, Clinton complimented Obama on his performance “everywhere” – a line the media usually omitted.)

  • OBAMA: FIRST TO PLAY…

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz …. Sorry, I feel asleep there. Fred, you were grunting something, I believe?

    Seriously, thanks for mentioning Obama. I haven’t made a donation to him in a while, but you just inspired me to send off another $50.

    He appreciates your help! Keep up the good work!

  • I respect those who want Hillary as Obama’s VP, however, I disagree. If we vote for Obama because Hillary is VP, we still have the most deceptive, ruthless and divisive President in generations. We will still have 4 or 8 years of race-based politics and race cards thrown at all who dare to disagree with him. Having Hillary as VP will not change that. I believe that we Hillary voters have the most important political decision of our lives to make right now. We can either assist Obama and Axelrod in perpetrating the most cynical and dangerous hoax ever perpetrated on the people of this country, or we can act together to protect this country against an Obama Presidency. If, at some time in the future, the party elite begins to respect our participation, and fields a suitable candidate, then we can always come back to the party at that time.

  • Good point. I’ll kick in another $50 too.

    Thanks for reminding me why I donate to Obama, Fred. You’re really helping.

  • In conceding, Hillary has done what she must in order to satisfy the Democratic Party. Hillary knows better than we, that Obama is the most inexperienced, deceptive, ruthless and divisive candidate in modern history. We also understand what this concession speech means and why she must give it, and while we respect Hillary immensely, we will vote our conscience this November.

    Now, Obama, his supporters, the DNC, the party elite, and the mainstream media will be using every trick in the book to “bring the party together” to further their ruthless ambitions. They will want you to forget all about the months of biased press, the biased party elite, the insults, the sexist remarks, and the race-cards. They will want you to forget that the Democratic Party now is the party that stands for disenfranchisement of the voters and the rationalization of racism. They will use any method to persuade you to vote for the man who they have preordained as the Democratic nominee. DON’T FALL FOR IT!

    Whether you write-in Hillary, if possible, vote for John McCain, or sit out the election, right now, for the sake of our families and our country, WE MUST DO EVERYTHING IN OUR POWER to assist in the defeat of the inexperienced, ruthless, deceptive, divisive, racist black liberation theology believing, race card throwing Obama. We can always come back to the Democratic Party if and when they show a desire to respect our participation, and field an acceptable candidate.

  • What’s that, Fred? You want all of us to donate to Obama?

    OK, if you insist. I’ll make it another $100.

  • I think the DNC and party elite have grossly underestimated the fury they have unleashed by attempting to shove Obama down our throats. Now that the Democratic Party has become the party of disenfranchisement and racism, I have no allegiance to it. I’ve spoken to many people about this, and we feel that it’s our solemn responsibility to help defeat Obama in November. Better a centrist Republican (tempered by a Democratic House and Senate), than an inexperienced, ruthless, deceptive, divisive, racist black liberation theology believing, terrorist befriending, race card throwing Obama.

  • WE WISH TO GO ON RECORD AND STATE THAT WE SUPPORT BARACK OBAMA. He is our lord and savior, and he shall deliver the world from sin.

    Signed,

    Louis “racist and proud of it” Farrakhan
    The Nation of Islam
    Fidel Castro
    Raul Castro
    Hamas
    The New Black Panther Party
    Rev. “GD America” Wright
    William “the bomb” Ayers
    Raila “the butcher” Odinga
    Daniel Ortega
    Al “racial ambulance chaser” Sharpton
    Tony “I’ll Help You Buy Your House” Rezko
    Father Pfleger
    Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (or its Spanish acronym FARC)
    Oprah “I used to go to Obama’s church but got out just in time” Winfrey

    And various other racists, terrorists, thugs, dictators and indicted individuals.

  • I think the DNC and party elite have grossly underestimated the fury they have unleashed by attempting to shove Obama down our throats.

    Are you retarded? Obama won more votes, won more states, won more primaries, won more caucuses and in the end won more delegates. If he was shoved down your throat, it was by the democratic vote of the Democratic Party, not by some party elite. (That in and of itself is laughable, as early on, the party elite had rallied around Hillary.)

    You’re a pathetic right-wing troll, easily identifiable by your RNC-talking points. No one here is buying your bullshit.

    But you’re doing a great job raising money for Obama. I’ll throw in another $25 in your honor.

  • I am amused by Obama apologists who suggest we should not consider his associations as relevant to his character and judgment. They say that we should ignore all racist and anti-American statements made by his close advisers and associates when deciding whether he is a suitable President, and only consider statements made by Obama himself; a man who is trying to convince us to vote for him come November.

    We’re supposed to ignore the racist and anti-American rants of Rev. Wright, his 20-year “mentor and spiritual adviser.” We’re supposed to ignore his new pastor, Otis Moss who has claimed that Wright was “lynched” by the media and compared the him to Jesus; and who refused to deny claims by Wright that the U.S. was involved in distributing illegal drugs to minorities or spreading AIDS to blacks. We are supposed to ignore another Obama adviser, Rev. Meeks, and his racist and anti-gay sermons. We are supposed to ignore Obama’s friend and patron of 17 years, the convicted Tony Rezko and all of Obama’s equivocations about their relationship. We are supposed to ignore his friendship with William Ayres, the unrepentant terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and a police station. And now, we are supposed to ignore the racist and despicable rants of another of Obama’s long-time friends and advisers, Father Pfleger.

    How many racists and terrorists does this man have to associate with before the public finally realizes that he is the company he keeps?

  • Obama supporters seem to want to gloss over the real reason the Pfleger and Wright videos are all the rage on You tube and the media. It is because they were recorded in the very church Obama had attended for over 20 years. I know that hearing this is like Superman receiving a kryptonite enema but you need to face the facts of the matter. Being a member of Trinity Church is DESTROYING his credibility with whites every passing day. Being a member of that church goes against the grain of EVERYTHING he claims to be as a candidate and a human being. It is making him RADIOACTIVE for the general election. Obamabots have been programmed to ignore the truth and reality but every day more and more people are seeing Obama for what he really is. He is a phony, manufactured, lying, manipulative, typical far left liberal politician trying to pass himself off as a uniter and common man that has all the answer for everyone’s problems. His BS just isn’t going to fly in the general election and there will be a continual string of stories in the press to remind us of this until November. When the public looks at McCain residing near the middle politically, and Obama at the far left wacko liberal fringe, the decision to vote for McCain won’t be a hard one for Republicans, independents and large number of center-leaning Democrats. Obama without a teleprompter to tell him what to say is an absolute disaster. He stammers, stutters and say ummmm repeatedly and outright lies when having to think, and speak, on the fly or off the cuff. McCain is going to clean his clock in the debates if he doesn’t get a grip on these glaring oratory flaws of his.

  • YEAH, OBAMA BARELY KNEW PFLEGER: Rev. Michael Pfleger, the left-leaning Chicago Catholic priest who ridiculed Hillary Rodham Clinton this week in a racially-charged speech from the pulpit of Barack Obama’s church, has contributed to Obama’s state Senate campaigns, backed his ill-fated run for Congress and stumped for him in Iowa.

    In a Chicago Tribune story a year ago, Obama defended special budget earmarks for his district while he was a state legislator, including ones that went to programs associated with Pfleger’s church. Pfleger gave Obama’s campaigns $1,500 between 1995 and 2001, including $200 in April 2001, about three months after Obama announced at least $100,000 in grants to St. Sabina programs. Obama’s spokesman, Ben LaBolt, was unable to say when Obama last spoke to Pfleger. LaBolt said Pfleger stepped down from the Catholics for Obama committee a few weeks ago, but he could not say why.
    He confirmed that Obama steered a $100,000 state grant in 2000 to a Pfleger-affiliated community program.
    “Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, Obama says.”
    Last year, Pfleger invited the Rev. Louis Farrakhan to speak at his church, St. Sabina, which encompasses a large, inner city African American parish. Pfleger backed up Farrakhan in a 2006 controversy over some remarkable Farrakhan bile. Pfleger criticized a mass resignation of Jewish members on a state of Illinois hate crimes commission. Pfleger said “good riddance” to the people who had left the commission. “Leave, go ahead and go on out, we don’t need that kind of a spirit or mentality and a narrowness on that kind of commission. I’m glad they’re gone,” Pfleger said.
    Farrakhan said, “These false Jews promote the filth of Hollywood. It’s the wicked Jews, the false Jews that are promoting lesbianism, homosexuality,” and “Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government” over the war in Iraq.
    Why in heavens’ name was Obama supporting this guy? And putting him on his Catholic advisory council?
    Catholic Online article:
    http://tinyurl.com/3twma4

  • ONCE AGAIN, OBAMA IS CONNECTED TO TERRORISTS AND OTHER UNSAVORY CHARACTERS: April 26, 2008 — The Obama campaign quietly removed from its official website a page managed by a fundraiser tied to the Islamic terrorist group Hamas. The page for Hatem El-Hady – former chairman of an Islamic charity closed by the U.S. government for terrorist fundraising – listed Barack Obama’s wife, Michelle, as one of three “friends” as recently as yesterday, according to blogger Charles Johnson. But by yesterday morning, days after Johnson’s “Little Green Football’s” site drew attention to the El-Hady page, Michelle Obama’s name had been removed. Then, later in the day, the entire page disappeared.

  • just when I think I’m out of it, Fred pulls me back in.

    Fred, as the regulars here all know, I was a Clinton supporter from way back, right up until the RBC meeting. And once the result was irreversible, I supported Obama and melted away. But you really are something – not only causing my return, but my first contribution of the GE campaign. Here’s another $50 you’ve raised for Obama.

    Pretty soon Obama will have to report you as a bundler. Won’t that be embarassing for you back at RedState!

  • Now you’re cutting-and-pasting comments from “Obiewan” on a Newsweek forum.

    Here’s your 56:
    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/georgetown/2008/05/pursuing_the_jewish_vote/allcomments.html

    And, in an interesting twist, now you’re posting comments that originally appeared under other people’s names, on your favorite topix site, here as your own.

    Here’s your 57, originally posted as “Jack, from Mt. Sherman, Kentucky.”
    http://www.topix.com/forum/who/hillary-clinton/TLH4DJBL97OIUV9TI

    How many split personalities do you have, princess?

  • Speaking of bundling, it reminds me of another of Obama’s many lies about his campaign:

    HOW OBAMA HAS USED GEORGE BUSH/KARL ROVE TACTICS TO OBTAIN OVER $62,000,000 FOR HIS CAMPAIGN, SO FAR!:
    The Washington Post — April 11,2008 — Obama gets plenty of money from big donors too: “Sen. Barack Obama credits his presidential campaign with creating a ‘parallel public financing system’ built on a wave of modest donations from homemakers and high school teachers. … But those with wealth and power also have played a critical role in creating Obama’s record-breaking fundraising machine, and their generosity has earned them a prominent voice in shaping his campaign. Seventy-nine ‘bundlers,’ five of them billionaires, have tapped their personal networks to raise at least $200,000 each. … Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama’s total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million…. The bundler list also sheds light on those who might seek to influence an Obama White House. They have helped the campaign recruit more than 27,000 donors to write checks for $2,300, the maximum allowed. Donors who have given more than $200 account for about half of Obama’s total haul, which stands at nearly $240 million. The use of bundlers was perfected by George W. Bush, who in 2000 and 2004 set some fundraising records that Obama has shattered.
    http://tinyurl.com/6dtgq6

  • As you can see from GoMP’s post, Fred, we have actual Hillary Clinton supporters on this site, and they sound nothing like you and your RNC talking points. That’s why it’s so easy for us to spot your trolling and mock it for what it is. (Well, that and Google. Your reposting and sock-puppetry is pathetic.)

    Our regulars who were Hillary supportes are actual Democrats, who understand that the gap between our two candidates is nothing compared to the giant chasm between one of them and John McCain. You can try all you want to drive a wedge between us, but we’re not buying. And we’re going to kick your ass in November.

  • OBAMA FLIP-FLOP ON JERUSALEM: In His Remarks To The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Obama Said That Jerusalem Should Be The Undivided Capital Of Israel, But Later Said The City’s Future Should Be Negotiated By Israel And The Palestinians:

    On Wednesday, Obama Said Jerusalem Would Be The Undivided Capital Of Israel. Obama: “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Arlington, VA, 6/4/08)

    One Day Later, Obama Said The Future Of Jerusalem Would Have To Be Negotiated By Israel And The Palestinians. CNN’s Candy Crowley: “I want to ask you about something you said in AIPAC yesterday. You said that Jerusalem must remain undivided. Do Palestinians have no claim to Jerusalem in the future?” Obama: “Well, obviously, it’s going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues.” (CNN’s “The Situation Room,” 6/5/08)

    “Facing Criticism From Palestinians, Sen. Barack Obama Acknowledged Today That The Status Of Jerusalem Will Need To Be Negotiated In Future Peace Talks, Amending A Statement Earlier In The Week That Jerusalem ‘Must Remain Undivided.'” (Glenn Kessler, “Obama Clarifies Remarks On Jerusalem,” The Washington Post’s “The Trail,” Blog, http://www.washingtonpost.com, 6/5/08)

  • Fred’s #63 is literally a Republican Talking Point:

    FLIP-FLOP #1: In His Remarks To The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Obama Said That Jerusalem Should Be The Undivided Capital Of Israel, But Later Said The City’s Future Should Be Negotiated By Israel And The Palestinians:

    On Wednesday, Obama Said Jerusalem Would Be The Undivided Capital Of Israel. Obama: “Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Arlington, VA, 6/4/08)

    One Day Later, Obama Said The Future Of Jerusalem Would Have To Be Negotiated By Israel And The Palestinians. CNN’s Candy Crowley: “I want to ask you about something you said in AIPAC yesterday. You said that Jerusalem must remain undivided. Do Palestinians have no claim to Jerusalem in the future?” Obama: “Well, obviously, it’s going to be up to the parties to negotiate a range of these issues.” (CNN’s “The Situation Room,” 6/5/08)

    * “Facing Criticism From Palestinians, Sen. Barack Obama Acknowledged Today That The Status Of Jerusalem Will Need To Be Negotiated In Future Peace Talks, Amending A Statement Earlier In The Week That Jerusalem ‘Must Remain Undivided.'” (Glenn Kessler, “Obama Clarifies Remarks On Jerusalem,” The Washington Post’s “The Trail,” Blog, http://www.washingtonpost.com, 6/5/08)

    http://www.gop.com/Print/?Guid=d96f49ef-0b3c-4f7a-8c71-57f95d22a62c&pg=news

    Jesus Christ, you may well be the dumbest person ever seen on the internet.

  • OBAMA’S FLIP-FLOP ON IRAN’S REVOLUTIONARY GUARD LEGISLATION: Obama Has Pivoted In His Opposition To Legislation Labeling Iran’s Revolutionary Guard A Terrorist Organization:
    Obama Has Been Inconsistent In His Views On Labeling Iran’s Revolutionary Guard A Terrorist Organization. “Obama’s campaign suddenly discovered that their man -despite having spent the last nine months campaigning on his opposition to Kyl-Lieberman – ‘has consistently urged that Iran’s Revolutionary Guard be labeled what it is: a terrorist organization.’ Well, not that consistently. Senator Obama has been scrupulously careful not to call explicitly for designation of the IRGC as a terrorist organization. Now, however, with the Democratic nomination almost in hand, Obama feels comfortable telling a pro-Israel audience what it wants to hear.”(Danielle Pletka, “Obama’s Pander Pivot,” Weekly Standard, 6/4/08)
    “[T]he Audience At AIPAC Might Ask Why Senator Obama Has Pivoted From Opposition To ‘Lieberman-Kyl’ To Support For The IRGC Designation His Audience Demands. Is This Really Change They Can Believe In?” (Danielle Pletka, “Obama’s Pander Pivot,” Weekly Standard, 6/4/08)
    “Which Barack Obama Will Be The Democratic Standard-Bearer: The One Who Vowed To ‘Eliminate’ The Iranian Nuclear Threat Two Days Ago, Or The One Who Opposed Designating The Revolutionary Guards A Terrorist Organization?” (Editorial, “Obama And Iran,” The Washington Times, 6/6/08)

  • OBAMA’S FLIP-FLOP ON PALESTINIAN ELECTIONS: Obama Now Claims That He Opposed Palestinian Elections In 2006, But He Supported Them At That Time:
    Obama Says That He Opposed Palestinian Elections In 2006. Obama: “There is no room at the negotiating table for terrorist organizations. That is why I opposed holding elections in 2006 with Hamas on the ballot. The Israelis and the Palestinian Authority warned us at the time against holding these elections, but this administration pressed ahead. And the result is a Gaza controlled by Hamas, with rockets raining down on Israel.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Arlington, VA, 6/4/08)
    But During His 2006 Trip To The Middle East, Obama Met With Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas And Said The Election Represented An “Opportunity…To Consolidate Behind A Single Government.” “Illinois Senator Barack Obama’s journey to the Middle East took him to the West Bank Thursday for a meeting with the man elected to replace Yasser Arafat. … For a time Thursday in the West Bank there was only the clatter of cameras as the newly elected president of the Palestinian authority, Mahmoud Abbas, met with Illinois Senator Barack Obama. At a meeting with Palestinian students Thursday, Obama said the U.S. will never recognize winning Hamas candidates unless the group renounces its fundamental mission to eliminate Israel, and Obama told ABC7 he delivered that message to the Palestinian president. ‘Part of the opportunity here with this upcoming election is to consolidate behind a single government with a single authority that can then negotiate as a reliable partner with Israel,’ said Obama.” (Chuck Goudie, “Obama Meets With Arafat’s Successor,” ABC 7 News, http://obama.senate.gov, 1/12/06)
    The Palestinian News Agency WAFA Reported That Obama Was Supportive Of The Palestinian Elections Being Held At Their Scheduled Time. “President Mahmoud Abbas met Thursday with the U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL), in the Presidential HQ in Ramallah…President briefed the U.S. Senator about the latest developments in the Palestinian territories including the preparations for the legislative elections…. Abbas and Obama discussed the means of underpinning the American-Palestinian economic relations…Obama asserted the US supports and eager that the Palestinian legislative elections on its proposed time (January 25).”

  • OBAMA LIES ABOUT THE “FLAG PIN” EPISODE: The pin saga started on October 3, 2007 when a local ABC reporter asked Obama why he didn’t wear one. Instead of the standard Beltway refrain, “My patriotism speaks for itself,” Obama launched into a long explanation of his decision-making process: “The truth is that right after 9/11, I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for, I think, true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security,” Obama said in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. “I decided I won’t wear that pin on my chest. Instead I’m going to try to tell the American people what I believe what will make this country great and hopefully that will be a testimony to my patriotism.”
    It didn’t take long for opponents and Republicans to jump on the idea that Obama wasn’t as patriotic as he could be, prompting the Illinois Senator the next day to clarify his remarks. “After a while, you start noticing people wearing a lapel pin, but not acting very patriotic. Not voting to provide veterans with resources that they need. Not voting to make sure that disability payments were coming out on time,” he told a crowd in Independence, Iowa. “My attitude is that I’m less concerned about what you’re wearing on your lapel than what’s in your heart.”
    The furor died down and Obama went pin-less for the better part of six months until April 15, when a veteran in a town hall meeting outside of Pittsburgh handed him a pin and asked him to wear it, which Obama did for the rest of that day. The reemergence of the pin led to a much-ridiculed question on the issue at a much-ridiculed ABC debate later that week. “I have never said that I don’t wear flag pins or refuse to wear flag pins,” Obama explained. “This is the kind of manufactured issue that our politics has become obsessed with and, once again, distracts us from what should be my job when I’m commander-in-chief, which is going to be figuring out how we get our troops out of Iraq and how we actually make our economy better for the American people.”

  • Fred’s now pasted three of the four foreign policy flip-flops from the RNC website, so let me see if I can beat him to the punch on the last one:

    Straight from Fred’s favorite source, GOP.com:

    FLIP-FLOP #2: Obama Now Claims That He Will Only Meet With Foreign Leaders At A Time Of His Choosing If It Will Advance U.S. Interests, But Previously Said He Would Meet With Rogue Leaders His First Year In Office Without Preconditions:

    In His Remarks To The AIPAC Conference, Obama Claimed That He Would Only Meet With The “Appropriate Iranian Leaders At A Time And Place” Of His Choosing. Obama: “Contrary to the claims of some, I have no interest in sitting down with our adversaries just for the sake of talking. But as President of the United States, I would be willing to lead tough and principled diplomacy with the appropriate Iranian leaders at a time and place of my choosing – if, and only if – it can advance the interests of the United States.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Remarks At The Annual AIPAC Policy Conference, Arlington, VA, 6/4/08)

    But At A July 2007 Debate, Obama Said He Would Meet With Hostile Leaders During His First Year In Office. Question: “[W]ould you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?”…Obama: “I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration – is ridiculous.” (CNN/YouTube Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Charleston, SC, 7/23/07)

    At A September 2007 Press Conference, Obama Confirmed That He Would Meet Specifically With Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Question: “Senator, you’ve said before that you’d meet with President Ahmadinejad …” Obama: “Uh huh.” Question: “Would you still meet with him today?” Obama: “Yeah, nothing’s changed with respect to my belief that strong countries and strong presidents talk to their enemies and talk to their adversaries. I find many of President Ahmadinejad’s statements odious and I’ve said that repeatedly. And I think that we have to recognize that there are a lot of rogue nations in the world that don’t have American interests at heart. But what I also believe is that, as John F. Kennedy said, we should never negotiate out of fear but we should never fear to negotiate.” (Sen. Barack Obama, Press Conference, New York, NY, 9/24/07)

    Come on, Fred. Let’s play the Match Game!

  • The point here, is that I could literally go on all day posting Obama’s lies and flip-flops. Candidate of “change.” What a joke !

    OBAMA FLIP-FLOPS ON PUBLIC FINANCING:
    Question I-A:

    As President, would you support and work to enact legislation to strengthen, keep the same, or repeal the presidential public financing system?

    OBAMA: Strengthen

    Question I-B:
If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?

    OBAMA: Yes. I have been a long-time advocate for public financing of campaigns combined with free television and radio time as a way to reduce the influence of moneyed special interests. My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election.

    Seems like a pretty clear answer. A few months passed, and here’s an excerpt from a Washington Post editorial from April 14th of this year. (What happened to Barack Obama’s promise to rely on public financing in the general election?), when Barack Obama first seemed to waffle on his pledge on public financing:

    Barack Obama held out the hope of salvaging part of the public financing system for presidential elections. Now he seems poised to drive a nail into it by rejecting the $85 million available to nominees who agree to take full federal funding for the general election. That may be understandable as a matter of campaign tactics; Mr. Obama sits atop a whirring money machine that appears capable of vacuuming up amounts far in excess of the federal check. But going back on his pledge to take public financing if the GOP nominee were to agree to do the same would be an unfortunate step — and one that reflects badly on Mr. Obama.

  • The point here, is that I could literally go on all day posting Obama’s lies and flip-flops Republican talking points straight off their website, and making comments under other people’s names and pretending they’re not me.

    Fixed.

    Thanks for showing us all how stupid you are, and for helping to raise nearly $300 in donations to Obama. I hope you keep coming back — we might get you to that bundler status by the end of the week.

  • OBAMA FLIP-FLOPS ABOUT UNION CONTRIBUTIONS: Back in January, the Obama campaign described union contributions to the Clinton and Edwards campaign as “special interest” money. He changed his tune as he went after union endorsements himself. He now refers respectfully to unions as the representatives of “working people” and says he is “thrilled” by their support.

  • OBAMA’S GAFFE ABOUT ARABIC TRANSLATORS: ABC found that while campaigning in Missouri, Obama stated that U.S. military Arabic translators in Iraq are needed in Afghanistan.
    “We only have a certain number of them and if they are all in Iraq, then it’s harder for us to use them in Afghanistan,” stated Obama.
    Of course, Obama did not know that Afghans don’t speak Arabic. The most common language in Afghanistan is Pashtun, followed by several other dialects. So to transfer the translators from Iraq to Afghanistan would be a worthless effort.

  • fred, you mean that you could go on all day cutting and pasting bullshit from republican sites. it’s lame, and i hope you have something better to do with your day.

  • OBAMA’S GAFFE ABOUT HUGO CHAVEZ: Obama also recently told the Orlando Sentinel that he would meet with Venezuela’s dictator Hugo Chavez to discuss “his support of FARC in Colombia and other issues he would want to talk about.”
    However, the next day, Obama stated that any country supporting the Marxist guerillas of FARC should suffer “regional isolation.”
    Obama’s flip-flop in 24 hours left campaign advisers scrambling to explain how one can meet Chavez and isolate him at the same time.
    Chavez, has long been accused of giving the rebels refuge. A self-described socialist, he called on world governments to remove the FARC from terrorist lists earlier this year, suggesting the group is in fact a “legitimate insurgency.”
    “Colombia’s government claims that a laptop recovered from a FARC camp in March shows a history of deep collaboration between the rebels and Chavez – something the Venezuelan leader denies.”

  • OBAMA’S GAFFE ABOUT HIS LEGISLATIVE RECORD: Obama has been just as loose with his own personal history. Obama claims to have written the key elements of nuclear legislation.
    “So the only nuclear legislation that I’ve passed has been to make sure that the nuclear industry has to disclose whatever they emit anything that might be considered radioactive and share that with local and state communities. I just did that last year,” stated Obama in Iowa in 2007.
    What Obama forgot was his bill did not “pass” the Senate and become law. The bill died in the full Senate basically due to Democrat infighting.
    Like so many gaffes before and after, the Obama campaign quickly placed a caveat on the Senator’s statement, saying that his proposal made so much sense that the nuclear industry started doing it on a “voluntary basis.” Of course, no mention of why the senator said it passed when the record clearly shows it flopped.

  • actually, byron, i doubt he does have anything better to do.

    we should go easy on Fred. its summer vacation now and the RNC has to find something to do with all of those unpaid interns from Regent U. Fred’s just trying to look busy for the bosses. they seem a little irritable lately.

  • OBAMA FLIP-FLOPS ON IRAN: June 5, 2008: Now that Barack Obama has turned his attention to the general election, he needs to move away from his MoveOn-endorsed positions in order to make a claim among centrists and independent voters. Yesterday he tried doing exactly that on Iran, and ABC noticed the shift. After spending most of the last eighteen months criticizing the Bush administration’s efforts on Iran, he has transformed into a hawk that now espouses the same policies as the current White House:
    In his speech Wednesday before the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, Obama sounded a bit like the more hawkish officials in the Bush administration.
    He said the military option is “on the table” for dealing with Iran’s nuclear program, and in stark contrast to earlier statements, he said he would meet with Iranian leaders “if and only if it can advance the interest of the United States.”
    Obama’s tone was strikingly different from it has been in the past.
    During a debate last summer, he said he would be willing to meet with Iranian leaders and other American adversaries “without preconditions” during the first year of his presidency. Today, he made it clear that we should not expect a President Obama to be sitting down with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad any time soon:
    “[A]s president of the United States, I would be willing to lead tough and principled diplomacy with the appropriate Iranian leaders at a time and place of my choosing if and only if it can advance the interest of the United States. That is my position. I want to be absolutely clear.”
    The Obama campaign insisted that Obama has not changed his position, but ABC quotes him verbatim from last July’s YouTube debate to demonstrate the extent of his shift. He made clear his opposition to the notion that direct, head-of-state level talks with terrorist nations endorsed and encouraged their terrorism. Now he has adopted that premise in arguing against talks prior to the Iranians suspending their uranium enrichment.
    As ABC points out, that is also the Bush administration position. Condoleezza Rice has publicly stated that the US would be willing to meet at the highest levels if the Iranians verifiably suspended uranium enrichment and stopped funding terrorists. This White House held ambassador-level talks with Iran about the security issues in Iraq even without those preconditions, talks which the Iranians refused to continue. Obama’s arguing for the Bush policy that he claims has gone so wrong.

  • Thanks, TR. Desperate neocon Republican trolls — you’d think they’d get a life and stop beating their heads against the wall..

  • actually, byron, i doubt he does have anything better to do.

    I’m not kidding anymore, I think he might really have some sort of mental retardation.

    There’s no way someone could be this obvious in their trolling & sock-puppetry and this oblivious to the fact that it’s blown up in their face, and have an IQ above 40.

  • OBAMA’S FLIP-FLOP ON CUBA: Obama advocated lifting sanctions on Cuba when he ran for the U.S. Senate in 2004, but now when speaking to Cuban groups in Florida, says the embargo should stay in place. Ninoska Pérez-Castellón, a director and spokeswoman for the Cuban Liberty Council, said that Obama’s positions show his “ignorance on the Cuban issue.” ”I think that Sen. Obama has shown that he can adapt to any audience, because before today he advocated for the lifting of the embargo,” she said. Cuban-American U.S. Rep. Lincoln Diaz-Balart of Miami assailed Obama in a prearranged phone call with reporters. ”Mr. Obama has a lot of explaining to do over the next few months in Florida,” Diaz-Balart said, “to try to assure people that his inexperience and naivete are not as worrisome as they seem.”

  • POLITICS 101 FOR OBAMA SUPPORTERS — FIRST: Obama wins the nomination without winning the popular vote, and based upon early unrepresentative caucus wins. SECOND: As polls show, at least 28% of Hillary supporters refuse to vote for Obama, and many instead vote for McCain. THIRD: This leaves Obama with the African Americans, the teenyboppers, and the party elite. FOURTH: The Republican Party is energized by the prospect of running against an inexperienced, deceptive and divisive politician, with a list of shady associations longer than a football field. FIFTH: With much ammunition, the 527s pepper the airwaves with Obama’s gaffes, Rev. Wright, William “the bomb” Ayers, black liberation theology, the most liberal member of the Senate, Bittergate, etc. SIXTH: The night before the election, the Obama teenyboppers have mass celebratory keg parties all over the country, get too drunk, and are unable to vote in the election the next day. SEVENTH: Obama is defeated and John McCain takes the oath of office in front of millions of cheering Republicans and Democrats. EIGHTH: Patriotic and savvy observers around the country breathe a collective sigh of relief in realization of how narrowly they had adverted disaster. NINTH: Many Obama supporters have to attend 12-step programs in an effort to wean themselves off of their addiction to responding to all criticism with attacks, insults, and race cards.

  • TR (@ 54 &55)

    Not only do I think it’s a hydra (one body many snake-like heads), I think it’s a robo-hydra. If you look at its/their postings, the comments aren’t in response to anything anyone here has said; it’s more like a pre-recorded message. Except in this case, it’s pre-written. But, in either case, response is futile; the computer at the other end is not listening.

    At least, last night’s Elliptical Bubba was a real person 🙂

  • Well, Fred is certainly not READING anyone else’s comments, so I have to agree with libra.

    Just take a deep breath Tom and let it go.

  • Could be, libra. Though Artifical Intelligence at least has Intelligence.

    Fred, not so much.

  • Hello Lance. Actually, I am a person, not a machine. As to whether or not I read posts from Obama supporters or answer them specifically; I do read many of the posts, but I rarely answer them for several reasons. (1) Most of them are merely insults and attacks, e.g. “you’re a troll”; “you’re a Republican” etc. (2) No offense to you, because you may be an exception, but the vast majority of Obama supporters I have encountered cannot digest information which is inconsistent with their predisposed views on Obama, so to discuss issues with them is a futile waste of time. Have a good day.

  • Fred said: “Hello Lance. Actually, I am a person, not a machine.”

    He’s alive!

    Actually Fred, if you read again, then I’d like to point out that quoting Repubican’t talking points and all the other stuff you’ve posted (and I’ve skipped over) really is not going to do much to sway the crowd that reads TCBR.

    If you engage in read and response to the less abusive commentary you can make something of an impact. Scare mongering about Senator Obama won’t work with anybody but the chorus. I can understand not responding to Tom C., but there are people here on the Obama side with a modicum of moderation and tolerance to whom you can at least make a reasoned argument.

  • So Fred, does the RNC pay you per hour or are you on piece-work, getting paid per post?

  • libra

    the comments aren’t in response to anything anyone here has said; it’s more like a pre-recorded message. Except in this case, it’s pre-written.

    IOW, spam.

  • Fred, I am sorry but shut the hell up….you are sounding stupider every minute. Is Stupider even a word? I know that you have not changed one person’s mind here at all so give it up and go bother someplace else.

  • Actually trying to argue with a liberal is like Pissin in the wind…
    truth, facts, history… all can be rewritten according to their whims.. A discussion will almost always turn into a vile verbal attack on the conservative or his party. Never will the liberal give a plan.. only a attack on what they hate wether it be you , the country, religion, or the president. That is why they keep losing elections. No solutions only attacks.. I shouldnt give them this info because if they were smart they might want to change their attitudes which might gain favor with some on the fence voters..but through their arrogance they will never change. sooooo things always stay the same.. hence the pumas are a successful tool of the right… OK no more tips for the liberal … your on your own from here.. OK now I am ready for the verbal attacks on me…(your pet troll nominee) or attacks on anyone else who you disagree with.. let em roll..
    Bubba said that…the troll you love to hate

  • Never will the liberal give a plan.. only a attack on what they hate wether it be you , the country, religion, or the president.

    I love my country, which is why I hate to see it misled by idiots like the current president and the fact-free morons like you who blindly support him when all the evidence says that he’s doing a piss-poor job. The economy’s in the toilet, the dollar’s at an all-time low, the rate of terrorism is on the increase, Bin Laden is still on the loose, and yet mouth-breathing morons like you — now a distinct minority, less than a quarter of the country — are still blindly clapping and cheering him on.

    You say you love your country, Bubba, but your actions show you don’t. You’re supporting a president who shits on the Constitution and keeps a war going that is killing our bravest americans with no end in sight. You say conservatives have a plan and you say you support the war in Iraq.

    OK, then tell me: What specifically constitutes “victory” there? Bush hasn’t been able to define it, McCain hasn’t been able to define it, but you’re insisting that conservatives are all about real detailed plans. What are they? Put up or shut the fuck up.

    That is why they keep losing elections.

    Remind me — how did the last election turn out? And what are polls predicting for this one?

    November’s going to hurt like hell. I hope you and the rest of the Republicans enjoy being a powerless minority party for the next generation.

  • Like I said.. only attacks…. viscous and cruel.. no plan .. just questions.. If you have so many questions why cant you give an answere what you are going to do..
    If we lose we lose… prepare for four years of horror… look how well you guys did with the current congress since they got in.. remember the joy when you all said “now we have control, things will be different” well they are different .. how do you explain the congressional rating at an all time low.. Oh I know blame it on the other side, they dont play fair.,.LOL… business as normal.. you have no solutions only gripes … oh yeah a change is comming…sure…. same ole story… by the way your whole response contained not one solution only attacks.. fishin with you guys is like ..oh I dont know….I got it ….taking a gun to a knife fight.,…..
    Bubba said that…..the troll you all love to hate….

  • It’s a pernicious frame, “Hillary supporters turn to McCain,” to snag the unwary and uninformed, even if there is no evidence for it.
    For the McCainites, it has many advantages:
    – Some McCain supporter gets on TV or into the news, when otherwise (s)he wouldn’t have gotten there.
    – Some newscast discusses this topic, rather than substantial McCain policies possibly harming women or families.
    – It feeds into the meme “Democrats are always quarreling /not even united/,” and “Even for Democrats, Obama is a controversial candidate.” Some voters like to vote for the candidate who seems to get universal support(at least from his party); even if Obama does get overwhelming numerical support from Democrats.
    – It confirms existing female McCain supporters in their delusion (“You see, even our feminist friends, who were for Hillary before, are now on our side” ) even if the actual news item might show, like this one, that there is no basis in fact for this.
    -It confirms potential McCain voters in their belief (“Even Hillary supporters think that Obama is unexperienced/bad/, so they’d rather vote for McCain”), even if there is no basis in fact for this belief.
    -It makes it possible for some female voters, who consider themselves independent and moderate feminists, and are normally unlikely GOP voters, but who are uninformed, to vote for McCain, “after all, if even Hillary supporters vote for…,” even if there is no reason to believe that McCain is in any way, say, modern.

    It is more difficult for Democrats to find a frame to have supporters of other GOP candidates now vote for Obama, as they all have been so bat-shit crazy.
    -Perhaps Huckabee supporters for a real Christian who worked for the poor, not a supporter for the rich getting richer?
    – Any news on “Republicans not voting for McCain” should be given more air time; as well as “Conservatives disapprove of McCain, in spite of his pandering to them/perfect voting record for Bush/…” (Latter addition important, otherwise this could be used to show that McCain is “independent”).
    -Or (although I don’t like to bring a candidate’s private life into this), how can a guy who divorced his wife after she had a disfiguring accident for a 24-year old heiress 18 years younger than him be a candidate for family values?

  • So, Bubba, you’re incapable of answering my question about Iraq? I ask you directly what the plan is, and you can’t answer in the slightest?

    You say we’re the ones lobbing vicious attacks, but you’re the one arguing that the other side hates this country and hates religion, and you’re the one saying our foreign policy is cowardice and surrender. All you have is hate and empty words.

    You have no ideas and you have no clue. That’s not an attack. That’s a simple statement of fact.

  • Liberal plan for Iraq:

    Realize that the only ‘victory condition’ we haven’t met is totally controlling Iraq’s oil.

    Decide we don’t need it. Declare Victory and arrange parades for our troops.

    Leave. Save American lives and return Iraqis their freedom.

    Conservative plan for Iraq:

    Ignore the fact that they are mindless tools of the Texas Oil Mafia.

    Argue that we have to stay in Iraq until LIEberman says we can leave.

    Keep killing Iraqis and watching Americans die.

    Have I given you a good enough plan?

    Oh, and one other thing. Tax F**KERS like you so we can pay for the medical bills for all the veterans you’ve wanted to be maimed for the last three years.

  • TR, @98,

    bubba never said we lob *vicious* attacks. The exact quote, from Elliptical bubba, @ 96, is:

    only attacks…. viscous and cruel..

    Not “vicious”; “viscous”. Like snot. In other words, “don’t sneeze on me, you cruel beast”.

  • On another blog, where I also moderate, I posted a link to a company near Orlando FL. They advertise that they employ RapidResponse bloggers to provide opposing viewpoints online for any company or politician. On the next post, up shows someone who responded in a funny way. I looked up his URL and funnily enough, he was a librarian at a junior college less than a mile from the above-cited company. A quick google showed how many posts he had made to similar blogs (in the thousands!). AND his MySpace page carried pix of him lovingly holding the passion of his life: automatic assault rifles!

    So Fred/Emily/Bubba/Arthur/Taliarr may be getting paid by the post. There’s a huge pool of neocon/swiftboating money being wasted on this. Too bad it can’t be used for good purposes…

  • Namoi said
    .”So Fred/Emily/Bubba/Arthur/Taliarr may be getting paid by the post. There’s a huge pool of neocon/swiftboating money being wasted on this”
    ..
    Damn you found me out.. now how the hell am I going to buy bullets for my AK47….Naomi you are amazing… OK so now that the truth is out.. the fact that I make thouands of dollars trolling on this blog…making money from swiftboating funds…
    whats a guy to do…
    LOL… you guys are too much.. you see boogie men in the shadows..lost votes hiding in the chads…. I love it.. I wish I knew you in person Naomi.. we could go target shooting in my pick up truck and toss back a few cold ones…maybe even catch a monster truck event…..what say you??…
    Bubba said that….. the troll you all love to hate….

  • Bubba said that….. the troll you all love to hate….

    Don’t flatter yourself, Bubba. No one here hates you, because there’s nothing of substance to hate. You’re just empty words and nothing else.

    Maybe if you actually answered our direct questions – like my repeated questions to you, on what you see as the plan for victory in Iraq – then we might take you serious enough to hate.

    But now? You’re just pathetic.

  • Bubba barely even qualifies as a troll. I’ve seen better arguments in alphabet soup.

  • I’ve seen better arguments in alphabet soup.

    yeah, i’ll be shamelessly stealing that one. that’s some USDA prime snark.

  • Big applause for “Fred”…. he probably earned more trolling points from the McCain HQ website, than anybody else.

    Does Steve have a price for the fastest “copy & paste” troll? He certainly won that price as well.

    I wonder what other ‘troll’ name he’ll re-incarnate to over the next few days. At least the copy/paste style will away.

    I have to give it to him though: for someone with a room temperature IQ, and being intellectually lazy, he certainly put on a good show.

  • This is the biggest bunch of crap story out there right now. The 19% of Clinton supporters he’s getting right now will be 2% come election day. No one can stand McCain. It wouldn’t surprise me if the rodeo queen gives him the boot if McCain doesn’t deliver on her being crowned First Lady. Why is she with him again? She’s got all the money and enough looks left to get her one of those hottie cubs to make up for the recent years of a sexless marriage. Gross.

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