Could delegate flap cost Dems Florida in November?

At first blush it sounds pretty silly. Realistically, it seems foolish to think there are voters in Florida who think, “I prefer Democrats to John McCain on Iraq, the economy, the environment, and taxes, but I’m not going to vote for them in November because of a dispute over convention delegates.” Sure, people can base their votes on superficial reasons, but c’mon. No one is that foolish, are they?

Well, it’s a funny story.

Howard Dean and Barack Obama may insist Florida’s Democratic presidential primary was meaningless, but a new poll shows Florida Democrats aren’t buying it, and one in four may not back their party’s nominee in November if Florida winds up with no voice in the nomination. […]

“If there’s one thing that this survey says is you have to acknowledge the Jan. 29 primary on some level,” said pollster Tom Eldon. “You really can’t say the Florida primary was a non-event to voters. It was a non-event to Howard Dean according to the rules of the DNC.” […]

More than three out of four Florida Democrats say it’s “very important” that Florida’s delegates count toward the nomination, and one in four said they would be less likely to support the ultimate Democratic nominee if Florida’s delegates don’t count.

Specifically, poll respondents were asked, “If Florida’s delegates are not counted, are you any less likely to support the Democratic candidate for president?” Two-thirds said this would not affect their vote, but 14% of Florida Dems said they are “much less likely” to support the Dems’ ticket in November, while 10% said they are “somewhat less likely.”

It’s worth taking a moment to consider how truly ridiculous this is.

Last week, TNR’s Michael Crowley argued that this shouldn’t concern the Democratic Party at all, because there’s no way voters would actually do this.

There are plenty of variables for Democrats to consider as they debate what to do about Michigan and Florida. I would say the possibility that not seating the contested delegations could turn the states against Democrats in November is not one of them.

I don’t even really understand the claim. By the time election day rolls around in November, after all the bitter fighting between the Democratic nominee and John McCain, is it really credible that Michigan and Florida voters will base their decisions on what happened to their convention delegates? No way.

I want to believe this; I really do. I’d like to believe voters would put the nation’s interests — and their own interests — far above petty concerns about nominating calendars and convention delegates. But if this poll is any indication, there’s at least some chance that this dispute could cost the party one of the biggest and most competitive states in the country.

The saving grace may prove to be time. When the election rolls around in November, the convention will have been three months past, and the rule-breaking primary will have been 11 months past. I have no idea what’s going to happen with those delegates, but Dems can at least hope that the wound will heal by Election Day.

Why is Florida so high maintenance? They remind me of that relative who is always at the center of the conversation for the wrong reasons.
One thing for sure they sure know how to screw things up for Democrats.

  • I think Crowley’s right on this. In the heat of the moment, a small segment will threaten to take their ball and stay home — Mary-style– but once the election is in full sdwing and the poliocy contrasts clear, they’re not going to do that.

    In any case, as the SurveyUSA polls show, Obama can win without Florida.

  • But they will still re-elect the Republicans to their state legislature who pushed through this primary date change, and were unwilling to change voting procedures unless the date was changed. The problem is not the DNC!

  • one in four said they would be less likely to support the ultimate Democratic nominee if Florida’s delegates don’t count.

    Let’s see half are for Hillary…
    Could half Hilary’s supporters be LYING to pollsters hoping to give their choice a freebie?

    I wonder if you asked them point blank, if Obama’s is the nominee, will you vote for him? Would you get nearly the same number?

    Do we not give enough credit to Hil’s shills for knowing how to use polls to their advantage?
    I do.

  • At this point, some group of voters is going to be pissed off no matter what happens. I have a hard time believing that the FL & MI delegates won’t be at the convention. Somehow, someway those delegates will get seated. It might be 50/50 or after Hillary finally leaves the race it might be based on the bogus January votes with a discounted delegate count.

  • I’m not sure what the solution is, but I am quite concerned this is a legitimate problem.

    Rationally, logically, does voting McCain (or sitting out) make sense if you are a Florida Democrat? Of course not. Voting in the general on the basis of a procedural dispute from the primary is silly. . . but really, is it any more or less silly than people voting Bush because he seemed like a better guy to have a beer with? (being a recovering alcoholic and all – and when is the last time you had beer with a President, anyway?)

    Just like some here defend voting Nader as a statement, Florida voters — particularly those who actually took the time and made the effort to show up for the primary — may very well do the same. Given how razor-thin the Florida margins have been in recent history, this could take Florida away from the Democratic nominee.

    It strikes me that the ideal resolution is for enough Supers to weigh in so that the nomination is clearly established before Denver, and then there is no harm in seating the Florida and Michigan delegations. It is only controversial if they will change the outcome.

    Otherwise this really does seem to be a no-win dilemma: you can’t ignore that they broke the rules, and you hurt everyone by penalizing them.

  • You really need to wake up and read FL newspapers from all over the state about democrats boycotting the election in November. I happen to belong to one of those groups and very proud of it. And no we won’t vote in November unless our votes are counted.

  • Thank you Hillary for screwing the party as hard as you felt necessary to get the brass ring you so adamantly crave. But I believe the polls showing Obama can win the election big enough that Florida gets knocked off it’s stupid perch, and that would be sweet on a number of levels.

    Did anyone notice how only 28% of the Democrats in Florida hold the Republican legislature responsible for this mess?

    Unbelievable.

  • And no we won’t vote in November unless our votes are counted.

    Then tell Hillary to get out of the race so we can count your votes when they no longer matter. Will that make you happy?

  • The angry voters should have lobbied their senators and representatives to push the election into a time frame suitable to the Democratic party.

  • If Florida is rewarded for breaking the rules the next election will be total chaos. There has to be some discipline, and it has to be applied evenly to whoever breaks the rules, even Florida. If I lived in there and voted in that Republican-dicked-up primary I would hold the loss of delegates against the Republicans who engineered it. I might wish for better Democratic leadership, but I certainly wouldn’t act like a spoiled brat and deliberately try to help the Republicans win. How freaking stupid do you have to be to do that???

    And face it, Hillary people, even if your precious Florida delegates were seated against the rules, your candidate would LOSE.

  • @7: Comeback Bill said:

    You really need to wake up and read FL newspapers from all over the state about democrats boycotting the election in November. I happen to belong to one of those groups and very proud of it. And no we won’t vote in November unless our votes are counted.

    I don’t understand why Florida Democrats are railing against the National Party when it was the state democratic party and the state legislators who decided to break the rules.

    If you want your vote to ‘count’, then volunteer for your local democratic party: revive and turn-around racial divided, stagnant, good ole boys party.

    (n.b.: I’ve lived in Florida most of my life. I no longer live there now.)

  • Never voted for a republican in my life but I may have to this year.

    Imagine 2009 for a moment. A new president is sworn in who agrees with Bush on everything. For four years, we’ll have more of the same on Iraq, Iran, the economy, healthcare, and stacking the federal judiciary with far-right judges (who serve for life).

    But that’s fine, because Florida Dems and national Dems had a dispute over convention delegates, and that’s what’s really important. You’ll have helped undermine the future of the country because the state party broke party nominating rules and got punished.

    Brilliant.

  • As a Florida resident who voted in the “primary”, I cannot conceive, fathom or imagine not voting in November. Possibly the most important election of our voting lifetime. I think those 14% polled were trying to get a little attention in a sour grapes sort of way. Steve thinks they’ll come around – I don’t necessarily think they even believe that now – they’re just blowing off steam. Of course, there are probably a few kooks out there. Sorry, Comeback BIll.

  • You just don’t understand Florida. Florida is a swing state. Party affiliation doesn’t mean that much. Many Democrats are Democrats in name only…some register Dem so they can vote in the primaries, some so they have a say in local politics…but in the end most pick the president based on something other than party. McCain is popular among Democrats in Florida, as he is in many other states. It won’t take much to get his vote and disenfranchising their primary vote is one way the DNC can lose Florida.

  • I happen to belong to one of those groups and very proud of it. -Comeback Bill

    Profound ignorance is often the root of pride. You’re so damn selfish you would threaten to punish an entire nation because of something you state legislature did to you. You have the nerve to blame Dean and Obama, but it’s really your fucking fault.

    Stop electing morons and you won’t have this problem.

    Can we seriously give Florida to Cuba? I’m so absolutely sick of their shenanigans every four years. Truly, they are the cock of America.

  • How impressive. At the minimum, a significant number of FL Dems would rather continue sending their tax dollars and son’s and daughter’s, (170+ dead in Iraq), into the black hole of RepubCo waste and stupidity in order to register their discontent with the the outcome of a decision that they foisted on themselves.

    Skewered Left said:

    “Why is Florida so high maintenance?”

    Damn good question.

  • Ah yes, the Clinton Rules, everything is Hillary’s fault. Gee, why would Florida citizens who were screwed and disenfranchised by the Democratic Party stay home and not vote. Don’t they know that for the good of Obama it is their duty to vote in November. We could have had a revote if both candidates had wanted one. Obama didn’t. He has already written off Florida in the general election so he doesn’t give a damn about their right to vote in the primary. Obama will be a disaster in November and telling the people in Florida that their votes only count when Howard Dean and Barack Obama say that they do will be a big part of the McCain presidency.

  • Wow their votes don’t count in the primary so they want to make sure that they don’t count in November. That’s logic for you.

    Don’t care who I pick as long as I pick the one who wins.

    I would wager that this is a big reason we have had 7 years of Bush.

  • @ #7: You really need to wake up and read FL newspapers from all over the state about democrats boycotting the election in November. I happen to belong to one of those groups and very proud of it.

    Because your pride is what it’s all about. You won’t vote if FL’s delegates aren’t counted, you won’t vote if Sen. Clinton isn’t the nominee…I’m starting to think you’re just looking for excuses not to vote.

    Screw off, then.

  • Oh, petulant children of Florida.

    How I long to saw your silly state right off the continent and set it adrift in the ocean.

    Obama doesn’t need you to win. But it would be nice if you acted like adults and did the right thing.

  • This is a very real risk that the Democratic Party ignores at its peril.

    If I were a Florida voter, I would vote for the Democrat in November (regardless of who gets the nomination) — despite my profound disgust with this situation (we wouldn’t be in this mess if FL and MI had suffered a 50% delegate penalty rather than 100%) — because I share the belief of most lefty bloggers that we NEED a Democrat in the White House, not another four years just like the last seven-plus years.

    What most lefty bloggers seem to be forgetting, however, is that most non-blog-reading, non-activist Democratic voters are NOT like me (or you, if you’re reading this). Instead, most non-blog-reading, non-activist Democratic voters think John McCain is some sort of “moderate maverick” and that having him elected president would be JUST FINE, even if under more “normal” circumstances they would prefer a Democrat to McCain.

    When you take into account that most unpleasant reality, it’s not hard to imagine that LOTS of Florida Democrats (and Michigan Democrats for that matter) will tell the Democratic Party “if you won’t COUNT our votes now, you won’t GET our votes in November.”

    This problem is not going to go away on its own.

    If there are no MI or FL delegates seated at the convention, the Democratic candidate WILL lose both states in November and John McCain WILL be president.

  • I don’t think the voters of Florida should be penalized. Allowing their votes to be counted would reaffirm our commitment to democracy and to the 50-state strategy. So seat the delegates that the voters of Florida selected.

    However… the Florida Democratic Party leadership and elected officials in Florida have caused this mess by a number of actions and inactions. A general lack of leadership and an inflated sense of entitlement. Let them pay the state’s penalty for breaking the rule. Seat no Floridian super-delegates.

  • Gee, why would Florida citizens who were screwed and disenfranchised bleat bleat bleat I’m a Clintonian sheep]….

    That, Johnnie, has got to be the dumbest, most imbecilic, over-the-edge comment ever made in the history of political theater. It even tops Marie Antoinette’s “let them eat cake” moment. Florida’s voters were not “disenfranchised” by Obama and the Democratic National Party. They were unilaterally withdrawn from the voting process by the Florida State Legislature (Republicans and Clinton backers), the Governor of Florida (a Republican), and the Florida HillaryLand-uber-alles Glee Club State Democratic Party.

    If Clinton’s dwindling number of sycophantic Floridians want to stay at home on election day, then by all means—let them stay home, and thus “disenfranchise” themselves a second time. There are 50 states in these United States, and it is not—and never has been—the responsibility of those other 49 states to fix the damage done to Florida, BY FLORIDA .

    Floridians need to start pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps, taking responsibility for their own actions, and putting the blame where it belongs—on themselves, and on their in-state political mechanisms….

  • Steve, you are wrong about a couple of things. But don’t worry about it, the more nasty things you say about Floridians, the more you call them stupid, the more lies you tell…it will just push them to McCain. In a funny way, you will be partially responsible if McCain wins.

  • #28 –

    for gods sake, this is now several CB posts today where the top post had nothing to do with Clinton that somehow ended up in rabid anti-Clinton screeds.

    yes, yes – everyone here likes Obama, we get it. But seriously, is everything in the entire world Clinton’s fault? Florida Republicans move the primary and its Clinton’s fault? Floridians who went and voted are upset about their votes not counting (ignoreing the misplaced nature of their anger) and its Clinton’s fault? Florida has been Carl Hiassen’s personal laughingstock/pot-of-gold for decades but somehow it is all Clinton’s fault?

    really? are McCain’s confusion on branches of Islam, Rev. Wright’s hatefulness and the loss of Georgie Bush’s e-mail all Clinton’s fault, too? Polluted Olympics in Beijing and Gov. Paterson’s affairs – Clinton’s fault?

    perspective, please. thank you.

  • True to form, HRC has created high drama and confused an issue for her own purposes — an issue that was and remains quite simple.

    The DNC set some rules and specified the penalties for breaking them. The candidates agreed to abide by the DNC rules. The Florida legislature did not, and broke the rules knowing the consequences. Florida voters have only their Republican legislature to blame.

    I wish Obama or Dean would come out and say just that, because all these side issues are irrelevant.

  • I am one of those Florida ingrates who took time off from work to go vote in the January 29th primary. I am also someone who has never understood why the small states of Iowa and New Hampshire should have such a significant say in who gets nominated by the national parties. I believe that the state legislatures and parties should determine how and when their primaries are held and how they are conducted. That being said, I will tell you why McCain will win Florida in November and become our next President. First, all these cross over voters and independents that voted for Obama in the primaries in other states were primarily anti-Hillary voters, who will likely vote for McCain in November. I mean seriously, does anyone believe Obama is going to carry Kansas, Wyoming and the other historically Republican states in November? Second, while I must give Obama credit for being an excellent campaigner and speech maker, he has no proven record of accomplishments. All he has are endless and unclear promises. McCain has a record, like it or not, that goes back over decades. Third, while all these new, young, diverse Democrats may get out to vote, if the DNC and Obama think they don’t need old-line Democrats to fuel a win in November, their crazy. Sure, I understand why Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, and the rest of the Clinton haters want to void the primary votes, but why is the Obama camp so afraid of letting them count? If they have this overwhelming confidence they can win in November without Florida and Michigan, they should have no fear in letting the Michigan and Florida primaries stand. By the way I do blame the Florida Democratic Party for the situation this state finds itself in. By letting the Republicans win control of the state legislature, the state’s districts are now so gerrymandered that even with registered Democrats outnumbering Republicans; it will take landslide victories by Democrats to ever right this sinking ship. Sorry, but Obama can’t do it, I don’t know if any Democrat can, but ignoring the primary votes of old line Democrats like me won’t help.

  • The problem is that Florida is historically very close in presidential elections, and thus considered a “swing state”.

    It does not take a lot of people who feel that they were being disenfranchised to either not vote or else vote for McCain in order to negatively affect the result. Even a small margin is enough for Republicans to win Florida, and the general election as a whole.

    Remember, 1.8 million voters showed up at the democratic primary to vote. This is the largest in history, even larger than New York state’s democratic primary this season!

  • Truman Democrat, I’m glad you got to the polls., Had I lived in FL I probably would have done the same, partly out of spite. I recently spoke with some friends who do live in FL and for the first time in their lives, they decided not to vote — also out of spite — in what was a meaningless contest. After talking with them I could see their point.

    The reason FL should not count is that all FL Democrats were disenfranchised before the meaningless exercise took place. That includes my friends, and you. By retroactively “franchising” you now, you would disenfranchise them again — even though you both acted sensibly.

  • Greg,

    You would do well to remember that Harold Ickes is one of the architects of your primary problem. Who does he work for?

    He’s being a hypocrite of the grandest magnitude concerning this issue.

    It was also not the rest of the country that imposed this punishment on Floridians. You would all do well to remember who did this to you and end their political careers.

    But blaming Obama’s campaign is absurd, and seeking to punish the whole country for what your state legislature did is absurd.

    And I think most people support a redo. Why can’t Michigan and Florida get those together? Oh, yeah, the same state legislations that messed everything up to begin with.

    I think there is a lot of misdirected anger in those two states, and the comments of Comeback Bill, Greg, Truman Democrat, and others must have the GOP laughing all the way to the bank.

  • Gee, why would Florida citizens who were screwed and disenfranchised by the Democratic Party stay home and not vote. Don’t they know that for the good of Obama it is their duty to vote in November.

    Repeat, the national Democratic Party didn’t screw or disenfranchise Florida, the state party did. There are rules for these primaries, and the Florida state party chose to break the rules. And when you break the rules, there are consequences. If there are no consequences, then nothing keeps everyone from breaking the rules. If you want to be pissed at someone, get pissed at your state representatives who screwed you. Vote them out of office. But to throw a hissy fit and claim that you won’t vote unless your preferred candidate wins is childish and moronic. If you’d rather John McCain win the election than Barack Obama, then you are not a Democrat. Period.

    We could have had a revote if both candidates had wanted one. Obama didn’t.

    Your state party ruled out a revote. Florida’s Democratic leadership said no to a revote.

    Show me where in that article it says “negotiations broke down because Barack Obama didn’t want to do it.”

    But I’m not surprised your irrational Obama hatred leads you to believe it was all somehow his fault.

  • Repeat: if you decide to vote for McCain to “prove a point” because you are mad that your state (not the DNC) screwed you out of the primary process, then you are pretty much the dumbest idiot I’ve ever heard of.

    You know what would be much more productive? Voting your state reps out of office – which solves your state problem, and doesn’t potentially screw over the whole country for at least the next 4 years.

    But then we all know that Greg, Mary, et al aren’t really Democrats (as their threats to vote for McCain clearly demonstrate), so that’s not really their chief concern.

  • I will tell you why McCain will win Florida in November and become our next President. First, all these cross over voters and independents that voted for Obama in the primaries in other states were primarily anti-Hillary voters, who will likely vote for McCain in November.

    Sweet! What else does your magical crystal ball tell you?

  • Please remember, in Florida, Hillary and Obama weren’t the only Democrats on the ticket. I believe some of us voted for John Edwards and others. If I understand it correctly, in Michigan the proposal is to give all the uncommited votes to Obama, even though other candidates were still viable at that time.

  • Second, while I must give Obama credit for being an excellent campaigner and speech maker, he has no proven record of accomplishments.

    You obviously mean except for 570 bills he has sponsored or cosponsored in the U.S. Senate, not including he many years of experience in Illinois, right?

    Everything except that proven record of accomplishments, right?

  • Then again, I will grant you that he never went on a peacekeeping mission with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow, so his experience is lacking in certain areas. On that we can agree.

  • On March 19th, 2008 at 10:23 am, Comeback Bill said:

    You really need to wake up and read FL newspapers from all over the state about democrats boycotting the election in November. I happen to belong to one of those groups and very proud of it. And no we won’t vote in November unless our votes are counted.

    Er, if you don’t vote in November, it’s pretty much guaranteed your vote won’t be counted. 😉

  • If I may add to Will’s comment at 43, he also is not touting his experience with health care as HRC is — an experience that was an unmitigated disaster!

  • I want to believe this; I really do. I’d like to believe voters would put the nation’s interests — and their own interests — far above petty concerns about nominating calendars and convention delegates. But if this poll is any indication, there’s at least some chance that this dispute could cost the party one of the biggest and most competitive states in the country.

    The poll is not only right, it understates the level of feeling one gets when talking to Florida Democratic voters personally. I’ve done that, calling around the country for the party, and I can tell you those people are very damn angry and they just very well might do that. They’re part of the grassroots of the Democratic Party who are angy at the stupidity of the Party.

    I never could understand how it was so important to not piss off a pair of political irrelevancies like New Hampshire and Iowa who are neither representative of the country as a whole with their electorate (so why should they set who does what?), nor control enough electoral votes to equal half of either Michigan or Florida, if you combined them. We’re supposed to let two of the three crucial states for any election go into orbit so we can maintain a tradition that was never anything but stupid?

    Doing this was so stupid, the Democrats almost deserve to lose for it. The people in Florida are right.

  • You remind me of the Republicans, my candidate no matter what, right or wrong. You’ve incorrectly assumed I am a Hillary Clinton supporter. I am a supporter of the Democratic Party and its positions. I would like to see those positions pushed forward on a national basis. However, I don’t see how you do that by basically ignoring the voices of so many Democratic voters. If you’re intent is to make people upset with the whole process, it is certainly working. Obviously, the Florida Democratic Party can’t resolve this or really doesn’t want to because most Florida Democrats (yes party members) don’t want a revote, they want the January primary to stand. What harm comes from letting the DNC come up with a resolution (like counting only half the delegates) that punishes Florida and Michigan, but doesn’t ignore them. What positive result comes from making all of these Democrats angry?

  • blaming Obama’s campaign is absurd – doubtful # 37

    I agree, that would be absurd, if I had actually said that. Did you actually read my post?

    Anybody who continues to justify the disenfranchisement of Floridians are politically motivated, and who cares if Howard Dean or the DNC are to blame, why don’t you continue to blame Floridians themselves.

    If it were your own vote that was being silenced, would you be outraged? I say yes you would, and if you deny it then you are a liar.

  • Having read Comeback Bill’s comments over the last however long (few weeks?), if he is a dem, I will eat my hat!

    Right now, at this point in history, we have two HIGHLY qualified, articulate candidates, both frontrunners in their own right. While I may not like how some of the politics of late are playing out, if you look at Clinton and Obama on substance vs. McCain, there is NO comparison. If you’re here reading, you’re informed. You’re not getting your daily dose from the corporate media outlets.

    If Mr. Bill is a dem (and since I my hat is riding on it, fogadabadit, he ain’t one), he is a misogynist and a racist to hate both of these exceptional candidates.

  • I agree, that would be absurd, if I had actually said that. -Greg

    Sorry, I didn’t mean that to be directed at you specifically, but it read that way since I addressed you specifically in the comment.

    If it were your own vote that was being silenced, would you be outraged? I say yes you would… -Greg

    You’re damn right I would be, and I’ll do you one better. I’m already outraged about FL and MI, but I prefer to blame those responsible: the state legislatures.

    If that happened in my state, I’d be working right now to find a primary challenger to every legislator who voted for it. If someone ran a campaign against one of them specifically on this issue, I would donate to their campaign.

    Florida especially needs to get on the ball about voting reform. How many times will it have to be embarrassed by being at the center of election problems before the voters say enough is enough?

  • I follow greg in 49
    I love the fact that so many people not from Florida are calling us cry babies, high maintenance, stupid. I for one who has never like Obama(I must be a racist) this is one I do not blame on Obama camp. However, many of you don’t get it. You can argue all you want, the fact is we live a representative democracy and our representatives are NOT doing what the people want. We want our vote to count and you assholes who keep blaming the average citizen for this has no idea how that feels. We are pretty pissed off at the whole thing. There is no fair solution. But to see all you people argue from a distance what this means to us will piss us off more.

    In short, fuck off
    I already know your response “You voted for your representatives, so you are at fault”. Thanks and still fuck off.

  • doubtful @ 51 – I agree with you, but I’m afraid it is too late for Floridians voices to be heard, it is now up to these same imbiciles who fucked everything up to negotiate on our behalves, God help us all!

  • I moved to Florida in 1996. I haven’t had my vote counted here since. The Bush boys stole my vote in 2000, and they and the Republican machine with the help of electronic voting machines stole my votes in 2004 and 2006. I live in the 13th district, we tried to vote Christine Jennings into the House, but the Republican Buchanon barely won, with 18,000 non-votes tallied by the machines according to our Republican Supervisor of Elections. The spineless Nancy Pelosi and company were unable to resolve that one and sat the Republican. As I explained in my earlier post, I don’t think Democrats can “vote” anything in Florida unless we get a landslide victory, sufficient to overcome our “voting irregularities”. That’s why I think it is important to have all the Democrats in this state pulling in the same direction. So again, why P.O. so many Democratic voters when some type of resolution of this primary, other than ignoring them, is possible?

  • “…the fact is we live a representative democracy and our representatives are NOT doing what the people want.”

    You are correct. Your STATE representatives are not doing what you want. THEY knew the rules, THEY broke the rules, and now they don’t want to pay the consequences. And then you blame the national party? That’s crap.

    “I love the fact that so many people not from Florida are calling us cry babies”

    That’s because you are cry babies.

  • Chris, your post lacks maturity, grow up. Voter disenfranchisement is no laughing matter, and is not something the people wish upon themselves.

  • Don’t you think Obama could go a long ways to winning the hearts and minds of Florida and Michigan Democrats, who voted for Hillary and others, if he came out with some type of support for those who voted in the primaries. If he just said that their votes should be counted in some way (half the count like the Repugnicans), other than totaling ignoring them. Right now it appears he is hiding behind the DNC and the “rules”. Why not come out in support of these disenfranchised voters. It just might sway some of the outraged voters in Michigan and Florida that he really does represent the interests of the common people, of all races and gender.

  • @55 / Chris,

    Right on.
    Also, do you honestly think people would look at a ballot in November w/ McCain’s name next to Obama’s name – and they’d actually pick McCain for spite? Ah Florida electoral woes…

  • Chris

    That’s because you are cry babies.

    Man(or women) you got me on that. I think I heard that comeback when I was about 5 years old.

  • I am unabashedly an Obama supporter, though as an “undeclared,” I was not able to vote for him in the Florida primary (I voted on the state issues that were available to me). Enough of the blame game; the cuprits are clear.
    Now, how about something constructive: Hillary admits defeat, the defeat that is inevitable (save a counter-productive scorching of the Earth), and steps aside for the good of the party . . . now. This would permit Obama to spend several weeks in advance of the convention wooing Florida voters – in person. This would no doubt go a long way toward repairing the damage. Hell, it might also bring a few additional undeclareds and moderate Republicans the Dems’ way.

  • Florida gambled and lost in terms of the primary calendar. Does that suck for the voters in Florida? Absolutely. Should the national party just pretend that it didn’t happen, and hope that this lack of consequences for the gold rush to the start of primary season doesn’t happen the next election cycle? I don’t think so.

    Those of you who are complaining about the unfairness of this situation to the voters in Florida have every right to do so. Those of you who are threatening to abandon the party in November unless you get your way are being petulant children.

    Unless I’m missing something, the only reason to cry bloody murder over the exclusion of the Florida primary results is because you find one of the two remaining Democratic candidates unacceptable and think that somehow if your state’s vote was truly counted, you could sway the tide. And, frankly, anyone who tries to argue that either Clinton or Obama is unacceptable as our nominee isn’t being rational or truthful, and isn’t helping the Democratic chances in November.

    We feel your pain Florida, honestly we do. But it’s not worth throwing the election over to prove your point. It’s simply not. And if you can’t see that, you’re not being rational. Are you more interested in being “important” or are you more interested in ensuring a Republican doesn’t take the White House in November? For a sincere Democrat, that shouldn’t even be a choice.

  • Obama who is supposed to be the great “unifier”. So as Obama supporters, while you can feel the pain of the disenfranchised voters (its their fault after all), but you can’t take the risk that HRC might pick up half the delegates, all of the delegates from Florida or Michigan? It was the DNC that decided to punish these states by completely eliminating their participation in the nominating process by not seating their delegates or super delegates. Why was that harsh a punishment necessary to preserve the DNC “rules”. I didn’t get to vote on the rules, did you? The Repugnates just cut their delegate votes in half, did you hear anybody complaining? The DNC changed the whole complexion of the primary process with their ruling, and my greatest fear is I will be up at 2:30 a.m. on election night waiting for the networks to call Florida for McCain. Why take the risk, why not compromise. Something that Obama, contrary-to-his-pie-in-the-sky rhetoric, will have to learn to do, if he is really going to accomplish anything as Senator or President.

  • I didn’t get to vote on the rules, did you? -Truman Democrat

    No, but that’s because it’s not a democracy. The Democratic Party is a private organization. They extend us the courtesy of voting in a primary, but it’s completely up to their organization how they select candidates.

    Personally, I was pulling for a three-legged sack race this year, but primaries and caucuses won out again across the board.

    The DNC changed the whole complexion of the primary process with their ruling… -Truman Democrat

    You act as if the rules weren’t clear to begin with, or as if there wasn’t an opportunity to correct it. The state legislatures acted as children do when they are testing the boundaries their parents set for them.

    Why take the risk, why not compromise. -Truman Democrat

    I’m pretty sure it’s not the Obama campaign that’s holding up things in Florida, that it’s the state legislature again. Michigan is a different story, but the campaign has some legitimate concerns about fairness that haven’t been met.

    Let’s be very clear here: Obama has the most to gain in Florida and Michigan. In Michigan, he has 0 delegates, and in Florida, she’d certainly still win, but he would have a chance to improve his performance.

  • I don’t think its silly. Remember there are a lot of people in the middle and it doesn’t take much to swing an election. If one party shows it isn’t even competent enough to find a a way to let my state have a fair vote for its candidate, I would be less inclined to vote for their candidate if it was a toss-up in my mind.

  • As I commented earlier—if Floridians wish to continue this “piling on,” then let ’em swing in the wind come November. Literally every post arguing that this is somehow Obama’s fault—and I do mean, literally —has played the fear-factor card of “McCain’s going to win in November if we don’t seat the Florida delegation “as is.”

    I interpret that to mean, “McCain’s going to win in November if Hillary isn’t the nominee.”

    That constitutes blackmail—and it makes those who would commit such an act nothing more than political terrorists.

    We should not negotiate with terrorists.

    They broke with the system; they broke the rule, knowing ahead of the chosen punishment (non-recognition of all delegates) what the punishment would be. They (Floridians, via the Florida State Democratic Party) had ample opportunity to correct the “stunt” foisted upon them by the Florida Legislature.

    They chose not to—and now they cannot even demonstrate the courage to acknowledge that they, themselves, played a major role in their own “quasi-disenfranchisement.”

    Floridians weren’t howling to the moon and stars when this penalty was first announced; they weren’t crying to the gods when the penalty was dealt out; they weren’t bellowing their barbaric yawps in every direction of the compass until after it became obvious—with crystalline clarity—that Hillary Clinton could not win the nomination if she didn’t have those delegates in her pocket.

    In short—the electoral apathy of Floridians has been whipped into a rabid frenzy by the Clinton campaign. Hillary herself wouldn’t, doesn’t, and won’t acknowledge that this mess was caused by Floridians who thought only of themselves. She once again bends, twists, and spins the message to blame another.

    She—of the famed “Republican frames” diatribe—has adopted the exact political nuances of the Bush Administration.

    She—of the malicious, avaricious audacity to call herself a Democrat—has become a Lieberman Republican. She is the foundation of the fearmongery that has overtaken sanity in Florida….

  • Why can’t we just recompute the total delegates needed to win the Dem nomination as if FL and MI do not exist. Then the total delegates needed to win would be sufficiently less and therefore attainable through the primary process without a FL or MI re-primary or a superdelegate intervention. I must be ignorant of some rule that would preclude this scenario because it seems so simple.

  • O.K. you self righteous little pukes, let’s just ignore Michigan and Florida. There just blackmailing us, they’re political terrorists. I know you haven’t even considered it, but given the choice between Obama and McCain, not me, but some independents and moderate Democrats might just chose McCain, who some consider a war hero and an accomplished politician. Especially if the Democratic Party choses to ignore Michigan and Florida voters. And by the way, I know you weren’t down here, but some of us have been howling at the moon, screaming at the Florida Democratic Party (Not the Florida State Democratic Party) idiots since this whole idea of an early election came up. But that’s O.K. just ignore me and the 1.75 million other voters, Senator Bill Nelson and all the rest of the Florida super delegates. Who are we to think we should have any voice? Play our game, obey our rules or else you’ll take our ball and go home. Babies, where were you when we were fighting for the Civil Rights Act of 1964? Where were you when we fighting for the rights of all races to vote? Where were you when we were protesting the Vietnam war? Where were you today when we were protesting the Iraq war? Ignore the old line Democrats at your peril on that Tuesday night in November. That’s not threat, that’s not blackmail, that’s not political terrorism, that’s fact, which you’ve simply chosen to ignore. Don’t even think about making some effort at compromise. What pathetic fools.

  • What part of if you do this ,change your primary date, then your delegates won’t be seated don’t you people of Florida , and Michagain understand? All of this petty infighting is making this party look pretty foolish.It was agreed upon before that this would be the way it is , and now that Hillary is floundering it’s time to change the rules

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