Debating the debate, complaining about complaining

Barack Obama seemed to take some pleasure yesterday in tapping into Democratic disappointment with the ABC News debate in Philadelphia on Wednesday. He emphasized, repeatedly, that the moderators didn’t ask a single substantive question for over 45 minutes, which he argued was part of a systemic problem with the political world’s “obsession” with “distractions.” It was a fairly common sentiment in Democratic circles yesterday.

Interestingly, the Clinton campaign perceives this as an opportunity, not to hammer an irresponsible media, but to hammer Obama for talking about an irresponsible media.

Yesterday afternoon, Bill Clinton suggested Obama was “whining,” adding, “If you don’t want to play, keep your uniform off.”

Today, Hillary Clinton picked up on a similar notion.

For those who can’t watch clips online, the video shows Clinton saying, “I know [Obama] spent all day yesterday complaining about the hard questions he was asked. Being asked tough questions in a debate is nothing like the pressures you face inside the White House. In fact, when the going gets tough, you just can’t walk away because we’re going to have some very tough decisions that we have to make. I think we need a president who can take whatever comes your way.”

It seems to me there are two problems with this.

First, as far as I can tell, Obama didn’t “complain” or “whine” about “hard questions.” He took the moderators to task for asking trivial questions that are unrelated to actual public policies. More importantly, given the overwhelmingly negative reaction to the debate, a whole lot of Dems seem to agree with the concerns about the media. (As a rule, it’s not a good strategy if rank-and-file Democrats are pushing back against poor journalism to start pushing in a different direction.)

My sense is, having listened to Obama yesterday, he would have welcomed hard questions if they had anything at all to do with matters of substance. I didn’t get the sense that he was trying to “walk away” from tough scrutiny, and I wonder if the Clintons might be twisting his remarks a bit.

Second, what amazes me about this is the total role reversal between the two candidates.

Last month, for example, Clinton complained at some length about getting the first question instead of Obama. After an earlier debate, she accused her rivals of “piling on,” and talked about the rough treatment she received at the hands of “the boys.”

And, at the time, Obama was saying largely the same things about her than she’s saying about him now.

It’s funny how everyone changes sides, depending on new perspectives, isn’t it?

Speaking of tought questions, here are some words of wisdom from a person in the middle of one of those questions, William Ayers:

“Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at.” – William Ayers 1970

ABC is now reporting about Obama’s false statement during the debate:

The Obama campaign has maintained that Obama had no recollection of meeting Auchi “at any time or occasion,” but today a Chicago Sun Times columnist reports that a source claims Obama had not only attended the April 2004 event but also “made a few toasts.”

  • “Trivial” questions aside, it was a horrible performance by Obama. For somebody that’s always very articulate, I was wondering if he was sick or something. He wasn’t able to nail a single question, apart for the few obviously rehearsed remarks. Check the Gallup poll, he is having the same branding problem that Kerry had in the last election, the elitist candidate with the angry wife. Unfortunately looks that democrats wants to commit suicide and nominate him. Oh well.

  • shillary was main beneficiary here – all she is interested in is protecting the criminal cabal that is behind to create a bush-clinton-bush-clinton junta in the United States.

    Course what’s even worse is how even the self-proclaimed “progessive” outlets will not talk about this really being a direct reflection of corporate owner DISNEY and its socioeconomic/political interests.

    If even half the people that blogged or commented on this would instead promote and sustain an economic boycott of those that own and use the MSM for their own agenda, we could change things.

    What we really have is another version of the “101 Fighting Keyboarders” – pretend liberals that have left behind the rich heritage and traditons of progressive politices, the labor movement and the leaders that brought ushered in the civil rights era.

  • He’s a better choice than Hillary, nominating her would be like voting for McCain.

    Obama was off his game, but who wouldn’t be after the lst two months of MSM stupidity, Wright, flag pins, bowling, bitter, its enough to make a person sick, not tomention it was more Ambush than debate.

    He’ll take his lumps and come right back fighting

  • damn – shillary trolls have been waiting in the wings to spew lies and promote a bush-clinton-bush-clinton junta that protects and promotes the economic interests that stole the last 2 stolen presidential elections.

    LOL

  • If people really gave a damn about the issues in this post, we would actually be discussing a boycott of DISNEY and its assorted assets.

  • It must suck to be a Clinton right now. On the one hand you have old friends saying that your negative campaign ads are so appalling that he cannot remain silent, saying “Those ads are nothing but Republicanism” On the other hand you literally have but one path to the whitehouse, smearing your opponent. So now she’s trying to smear him for simply stating facts about how stupid most of the questions were. I’m pretty sure she’d attack him for “being weak” if he ignored the stupid questions.

    I’d say the thing she’s angriest about right now is how she got cornered into saying the obvious, that Obama is electable. I can just hear the spinning on that one in their private meetings with superdelegates.

  • I wonder if Greg ever said anything stupid in 1970, or if he was even born yet. And I’m sure he agrees with everything ever said by anyone McCain and/or Clinton ever had dealings with!

    Mo. Ron.

  • Don’t you just love the spin from Hillary? “I know [Obama] spent all day yesterday complaining about the hard questions he was asked…”

    Obama did not complain about getting hard questions. He complained about getting pointless gotcha questions rather than intelligent policy questions.

  • What I keep waiting for someone to point out is that even if Clinton Inc. succeeds in its attempted political destruction of Obama, it still amounts to a murder/suicide at best.

    There are millions of us who simply will never vote for a Clinton again. We certainly won’t forgive her for tearing down Obama… but even that is less significant than the Clintons’ ongoing pattern of endless and unnecessary dishonesty and political cowardice (yeah, I mean Iraq and Iran).

    If they do somehow make Obama toxic, as they–and their idiot trolls on sites like this one–are so clearly bent on doing, all that happens is that the nomination falls to someone else who’s belatedly reached the same conclusion about them that we have: Al Gore.

  • I find it astonishing that Clinton would make this argument, considering how he spent most of eight years, and especially the last four dealing with investigations into Christmas cards, Lincoln Bedroom sleepovers, and other obsessions over minor scandals. I would also point out that at least half of them were Hillary’s scandals, not his. In either case, I have so much less sympathy for him today. I hope she has her uniform on, because she’s due for a right jab to the jaw.

  • We Americans need to ask and honestly answer the following questions before we can continue to make sense of the rhetorical folly that keeps getting dusted up every ten minutes or so.

    What are the agendas for the three remaining candidates? Is each concerned with the welfare of our nation and its citizens? Are two of the three only in the campaign to win the nomination, with not much more of a discernable agenda than simply winning at all costs? Who seems to have a better understanding of the struggle we common Americans are facing with rising costs and stagnated wages? Who will strive to bring equitable tax policies to bear when elected? Who calls the legitimate term “estate tax” and who is gaming the landscape with the term “death tax?”

    And finally, who will take us beyond the tit for tat inane irrelevancies that are saturating our bodypolitik at this juncture of our history?

    As an informed Republican voter in this election cycle, I have already made my mind up by answering the above questions. Of the three credible presidential candidates still in the running, Barack Obama has my full support and vote in November should he gain the Democratic nomination. If Hillary is up against McCain, I will hold my nose and vote for Ms. Clinton, but I will not enjoy the moment of electing the least of two evils! -Kevo

  • And she wonders why she is losing. I/we are so sick of the politics of spin, and debates that ain’t no such thing. To say nothing of the entire process that gives us such ‘wonderful’ candidates. No substance, no meaning, and the worst is no way for normal people to have any recourse. I sure love living in corporate USSA. It just makes me smirk to know it will all crumble and fall away in the changes coming down the road. Third world will be a generous description of the wreck the economy will be after peak oil and the derivatives crash.

  • Oh. My. Goodness. I can’t believe that grown adults are discussing how many fingers Obama is holding up. The LA Times, and any nitwit who thinks that there is a “there” there, should be ashamed of themselves. At what price, to attract click-throughs?

    I can’t wait for this nonsense to be over.

  • And Richard Viguerie just released a statement along the same lines as the Clinton camp’s attacks, where he claims that Obama’s problem was just the “tough questioning:”

    “Liberal hearts are bleeding because of the tough questioning of Barack Obama and, to some degree, Hillary Clinton by the debate’s moderators, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopoulos of ABC News…. Liberals’ attitude is: ‘How dare they treat Obama as if he were a conservative! Tough questions from the news media are supposed to be reserved for Republicans and especially conservatives!’ Conservatives are used to tough questions. That’s how we’ve been treated by the news media since we started as a political movement.”

    Seriously, how bad is it when it sounds like the Clintons are in league with Richard Viguerie?

  • Bill Clinton suggested Obama was “whining,” adding, “If you don’t want to play, keep your uniform off.”

    Well sure, he’d like that wouldn’t he.

    I laughed and laughed when Hillary said that the debate wasn’t like the pressure in the White House. She just sets up her own ridicule sometimes.

    PS IFP Look for the con within the con (and that’s not a prison joke.)

  • Hillary can throw all the hissy fits she wants – if she doesn’t beat Obama an average of 59%-41% in ALL the remaining contests, she loses.

    Plus she said that Obama can win in November (“Yes, yes, yes”). So no reason for superdelegates to overturn the pledged delegate results.

  • I don’t think Obama followers understand that what they do reflects on him.
    Obama followers went ballistic over the debates. I hear they even had a protest over at ABC.

    BTW IMHO Obama flipped Hillary (and all her supporters) the bird in that video.
    If that video gets any legs… I would think it would end his chances for Nov.

  • The ground has shifted, and Hillary views the world through lenses forged in the physics of a different universe. She’s doing everything right if this were the 90s, but it’s not. The paradigm has shifted, and the first politicians, media personalities, etc. to “get it” are going to leave the others in the dust.

    The Clinton campaign has been running on fumes for a while, but the last nail in the coffin came when she made it clear that she got exactly the debate she wanted on ABC.

  • Unfortunately, the charges of complaining probably play pretty well with any average voters who were tuning into the debate without having followed the details of the campaigning so far, because they saw a lot of Obama saying, “That’s not what I said, that’s not what I meant, I wasn’t there at that time”.

    Nevertheless, most probably it will blow over, Obama will do okay and will stay ahead, and Hillary still won’t be in a position where she can win or where most of the remaining superdelegates want her to run. However, it will cause both Hillary and Barack to slip in the polls relative to McCain, until the race turns to a one-to-one comparison with McCain..

  • When HRC’s caravan drives down the road, do they have to display those ‘toxic substance’ labels? If not, why not?

  • Javier A and Nell: If you truly think Obama is flipping smeone the bird, try to imagine me holding up three fingers. Then read between the lines.

  • I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, this time slower. If anyone over the age of 4 thinks that Obama is purposefully making an obscene gesture, you would do well to consider yourself, and anyone like you, a N-I-T-W-I-T. Please, this is the grown-ups table.

  • OMGWTFBBQ!

    Obama maybe – sort of – if you look closely (well sort of squint a little) clearly flipped Hillary the bird – maybe.

    Seriously, grow up Hillbots.

  • Dale, I have nothing to say to you. Except this: You may think you’re hilarious, stealing my words and passing them off as your own on that little festival of mockery you call a blog, but I assure you I have been down this road before and I see exactly what you’re doing. I have rarely expressed an idea at a faculty meeting some male colleague didn’t try to take credit for — often an African American male who thought his “oppressed” status entitled him to help himself to the recognition women academics never get except through working five times as hard as any man — and I have never taught a male student who didn’t try to copy women students’ work (or worse, use cajolery and flattery to get these women to do his work for him). Women are on to you, pal. Your game stinks.

  • I think Bill is out there throwing the kitchen sink at the wall and Hillary uses whatever sticks. It’s hard to watch a man I highly respected a year ago look so pathetic. His accent is strong and it’s as if he is trying to be the silly southern simpleton on purpose.

    Greg, FYI, in 1970 I was in crapping my diapers. One quote from a guy he meet 37 years ago, really ? Is Hillary that hard up for dirt, can we agree Obama has been throughly vetted and came out pretty damn clean.

  • # 26 Actually I’ve just show the video to my daughter (13); without me saying anything she said WTF he is showing the finger. I gave her a time out for language, somebody should do the same to Barak

  • Javier A – don’t know what nazi school that you attended or (horror of horrors) may work for. I know that a teacher that wrote up a discipline referal on a person’s hand momentarily displaying and particular finger or jester would NEVER be taken serious.

    If a school did a serious disciplinary action based on a momentary perception of a person’s moving hand without a direct indication/confirmation that there was an intentional, disrepectful action – there would probably be legal action – rightly so.

    But I don’t expect honesty from shillary supporters – after all – her entire campagn is built on lies and innuendo.

  • Count me as another person who used to like Hillary just fine, and now can hardly stand to look at her. Her campaign gets more pathetic every day.

  • I wonder if the Clintons might be twisting his remarks a bit.

    Ya think? Why should they stop now? It seems like that’s been her ‘strategy’ for weeks now.

    This comment just reinforces what Obama was saying yesterday about what Hillary learned in the 90s about how politics is done, and further convinces me that, if I want our public discourse to grow up, I need to vote for someone besides her.

    The recording of Obama I saw had no “whining”, merely a sarcastic, and quite valid, critique of the process.

  • “and I wonder if the Clintons might be twisting his remarks a bit.”

    Funny.

    “And, at the time, Obama was saying largely the same things about her than she’s saying about him now.”

    Were the questions she was getting, that she considered “piling on”, questioning her patriotism or religion or something else as offensive, or were they policy based?

  • Wow. Reallyreally wow on “the finger” as… an issue something a normal person would notice anything.

    I had already seen that video twice through and can you believe it — I didn’t notice this shocking display. Gosh, I can’t believe how naive I am. I can’t wait to go through all his videos and see how many other times he’s “given the finger.” Oh wait, I have at least a tiny bit of a life outside blogland.

  • #30 If that’s the case, then I am happy to reconsider my position. Anyone over the age of 14 is a nitwit. I don’t mean to anonymously impune your daughter’s proclivity to overreach. I’m drawing the line at 14 though. Don’t make me pull this car over!

  • If somebody that something like this in school he is set to the principal’s office. -Javier A

    Are you fucking kidding me? Who gives a shit, anyway? This isn’t high school (though most of Clinton’s supports behave like it is), and get real. He scratched his face. It’s not the first time he has done so like that.

    Besides, given Bush’s one-finger-salute video that made the rounds before his election, I’d say using it is an advantage.

    And though I am sane enough to know he didn’t intend it, the message is sound. To Clinton and her batshit crazy supporters, fuck you.

    Actually I’ve just show the video to my daughter (13); without me saying anything she said WTF he is showing the finger. -Javier A

    Please stop breeding. You’re proof that Darwinism has failed us utterly.

    That and no one believes your self serving anecdote. Get a life.

  • This next question is for Mr. Obama. Last week, you were in the elevator and someone farted. Will you now, before this audience and the world, deny and renounce the fart or will you simply reject the fart? How will you react when the Republicans accuse you of associating with a fart? If you become the Democratic nominee, and John McCain farts in a one-on-one debate, and turns to you and says, “there you go again!” how will you respond? Now, this question from a viewer in Pennsylvania: “How any more farts are in your closet?

  • …Seems to me that the Clintonians and their motley band of camp-followers (some might refer to them as “f-ing ho’s”) are afraid that the media just might take Obama up on his challenge—and start asking serious issue-based questions. A few days of that, and whatever tattered remnants of the once-inevitable Hillary Dog-n-Pony Show are still flapping in the breeze would be blown over the horizon.

    Rather than worrying about what Obama has to say, they ought to be paying more attention to the super-dee dam—which seems to be springing leaks all over the place. She also needs to start worrying about all the counter-negativity she’s going to run into, once Obama take the nomination and she has to go back to a Senate full of enemies….

  • Javier=Greg=Comeback Bill=Republican Troll=Mary

    And for long-time Poitical Animal readers who also read here:
    American Hawk=Jay=Charlie=Javier A=Greg=Comeback Bill=Republican Troll=Mary

  • How come the moderators don’t ask shillary why she didn’t just blow bill in the oval office and save us MILLIONS of dollars on investigations and political grandstanding?

    If she cared about America, she would publicly atone for this by annoucing she would blow the chimp so we can impeach the MF already.

  • Actually what I think about the finger is irrelevant, wait till they show it on Faux news tonight and see what America thinks. Put it together in a tape with the typical white comment and wify angry statements. Karl Rove is salivating.

  • “If you don’t want to play, keep your uniform off.”

    This, from the people who whined about Florida and Michigan, when they had agreed beforehand that the DNC was justified in denying each of them delegates for moving up their primaries?

    The Clintons, they’ll say anything, won’t they?

  • But doesn’t Hillary have a point, as displayed by the Jon Stewart’s Daily Show pointed out, the .

    Obama went in unprepared, didn’t he?

    Everyone must have noticed the embarrassing moment of being unprepared to change the confines of the debate. Obama just completely forgot what he was going to say, and didn’t he KNOW that ABC would push the Rush Limbaugh hype, shit? Of course he did, as should have Hillary but at least she knew when to keep her mouth shut.

    Kind of like the old saying about “opening you’re mouth and removing all doubt”. I mean, if you don’t do you’re homework, why embarrasses yourself?

  • if kkkarl is salivating, its only cuz he is fondly reflecting on the many overnights that homosexual prostitute (with fake press credentials) had in the White House.

    And you want to make a big deal out of this…

    Obviously someone that wants to see more of the bush-clinton-bush-clinton criminal cabal.

  • It’s funny how everyone changes sides, depending on new perspectives, isn’t it?

    Only if by “funny” you mean “fills one with contempt for the human species”.

  • Actually what I think about the finger is irrelevant, wait till they show it on Faux news tonight and see what America thinks. -Javier A

    While I agree that what you think is irrelevant, I’d point out that Fox News doesn’t exactly cater to all of America, and the crowd they normally do cater to would not be offended in any way by the unintended gesture.

    Actually they may be offended that it was an unintended byproduct of a facial itch. They’d rather he really flipped her the bird.

  • I guess 14 must be the right age limit. I *just* showed my 14 yo son and my 44 yo husband the video. I didn’t set it up, I just said, hey watch this. Not surprisingly, neither of them noticed it either, even when I asked leading questions. So yeah, 14 yo and not, well you know, not insane.

  • Kind of like the old saying about “opening you’re mouth and removing all doubt”. -me-again

    Actually, as it pertains to you, I’d like to amend that saying to ‘Better to lurk and be though a fool then press submit and remove all doubt.’

    No, there is not point. Obama need not be prepared for ‘gotcha’ questions. One of the main points of his campaign is he won’t play that game. Ultimately, I think ABC, and Clinton by extension today, looks the fool.

    Obama’s suggesting that they talk issues and ABC and Clinton are saying, nuh-uh, flag pins. Yeah. Do. Not. Want.

  • Yes, Greg, Javier, Mary and Nell — it’s never that you are opposed to Obama and are always primed to believe the worst about him for reasons that you dare not admit. It’s always instead those “other people.”

  • (Excuse me for swan-diving, but I’d like to pick up where we left of before the commercial break at the end of #23)

    When you were in the Illinois legislature, the record shows that you farted sitting down, by our count, approximately 130 times. Do you agree with the statement that, in order to be president, a person should fart standing up?

    Now another question from a voter in Pennsylvania: I noticed you did not fart at the bowling alley the other day. How you assure me that Pennsylvanians can trust a man who doesn’t fart upon launching the ball?

  • True of False? Was Hillary Clinton Fired from Watergate Investigation for Unethical Misconduct and Then Lying About It?
    .
    Did her boss in the Watergate investigation fire her, refuse to give her a letter of recommendation and said she was a liar who did highly unethical things?
    .
    Does her boss say that she conspired to violate the Constitution, the rules of the House, the rules of the committee and the rules of confidentiality, that she was an unethical and dishonest lawyer; that he should have reported her to the bar association for disciplinary action; that she wrote a fraudulent legal memorandum which if submitted to a judge would have gotten her disbarred; and that he could not recommend her for any subsequent position of public or private trust?
    .
    http://www.jzeifman.com/
    http://www.aim.org/aim-column/hillarys-crocodile-tears-in-connecticut
    .
    Check it out, do you think?
    .

  • Will Obama come to the John McCain debates, as the Dem nominee being as unprepared as he showed up for ABC debate?

    You know, Hillary has a point since Obama said this:

    Obama: Let’s campaign, not have more debates – CNN.com

    Eventually Obama will have to debate John McCain – is he up too?

    Is Obama going to do his damn homework next time.

  • Hilary: “But you know, being asked tough questions in a debate is nothing like the pressures you face inside the White House. And in fact when the going gets tough you can’t just walk away…” Wrong. You can always show Putin the finger. Go leader of the free world go !!

  • Eventually Obama will have to debate John McCain – is he up too? Is Obama going to do his damn homework next time.

    LOL!!!!!

    ROFLMAO

    we need better trolls…

  • This next question is for Senator Clinton. Did Senator Obama just fart? And if so would you like to comment on that?

    HRC: Well, I believe Sen. Obama is entitled to his own farts, but when it comes down to a farting contest with John McCain, I believe I’m the stronger candidate. (Audience: “WHEW!”)

    Mod: The audience seems to agree!

    Obama: Excuse me, but I don’t see what farts have to do with anything…

    HRC: Maybe Sen. Obama needs a pillow.

    (Commercial break)

  • Obama’s video is getting to number one in youtube pretty fast. Is this a “Dean Screaming” moment?

  • I hang my head in shame that Hillary’s people are actually trying to run with the “finger”.

    But by all means, make the man more popular than he already is.

  • Why do people like Javier A and Greg spend so much time obsessing over what the Republicans may (or may not) do? Your sniveling is unbecoming; furthermore, that same sniveling is what put the Democratic Party on the defensive in the first place.

    But no matter…there are a good many people in this country who would gleefully give any Clinton the finger. When this goes on Fox, millions of Republicans will smile and a few will think, “Hmm, maybe this Obama guy isn’t so bad after all…and look, he’s wearing a lapel pin.”

    Poor greg, worried about the Weather Underground and electability. Any thoughts on those FALN pardons, greg?

    Aside: “timeouts” as discipline are the reason that your 13 year olds don’t know well enough to not say “fuck” in front of their parents. As you might have noticed, they don’t work. Try pushups.

  • Mod: Welcome back! We’re talking with Sens. Clinton and Obama. This next question is for Sen. Clinton.

    Mod: I believe you said that, when you were a little girl, your father or your grandfather took you out back and taught you to fart.

    Clinton: Yes, indeed, I learned right here in Scranton. And I might add I have 35 year’s experience (audience groans) — excuse me, 60 years experience (audience applauds)– and Republicans have been sniffing my butt for decades. I’m used to it! I can take it! I see John McCain and those 527’s and I say, bring it on!

    Obama: This stinks. What does getting your butt sniffed have to do with running for president?

    (Commercial break)

  • On April 18th, 2008 at 5:59 pm, Javier A/Moonie from Miami/Comeback Swanny said:
    Obama’s video is getting to number one in youtube pretty fast. Is this a “Dean Screaming” moment?

    No I think it is your “Screaming Swan” moment.

    Suggestion: Hillary’s campaign needs money. Give boy.
    I love it when you trolls flush your money down the Bush hole.

  • Since I always scratch my cheek with the *ring* (not middle) finger, I have to agree with Javier and his daughter that… Oops… No. I, too, scratch my cheek with the middle finger. Except when I’m holding a cigarette in the same hand; then, it’s the thumb that does the scratching.

    Javier, I think you have a dirty mind, as does your daughter (genetic trait?)

  • If Obama really did give Clinton the finger, he can simply claim that it must have been those Cheney genes kiskin in that he got from his cousin, Dick. Everyone would understand.

  • For the Hillbots who are filled with outrage over the alleged bird-flipping, this is from Talking Points Memo Cafe. Could you maybe get one of your talking point from somewhere other than the wingnuts, please?

    —————————————————
    Obama did not “flip off” Hillary
    avatar
    By – April 18, 2008, 2:41PM

    It’s hard to believe that in the fallout from the silliest debate of the 2008 campaign season, something even sillier could emerge. I’m referring to this post from the mental midgets over at Red State, alleging that during his remarks in North Carolina last night, Sen. Barack Obama flipped Sen. Hillary Clinton the bird.

    http://www.redstate.com/stories/elections/2008/talk_about_no_class_barack_obama_gives_hillary_the_middle_finger

    Predictably, the “controversy” has been picked up by Fox News, whose screenshot of the alleged flicking off — though very blurry — pretty clearly shows two fingers raised on the right hand of Mr. Obama has he reaches up to scratch his face.

    http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/18/did-obama-give-a-flip-response-to-clinton-attacks/

    Here’s a link to the video — far sharper than the one FNC linked to — which clearly shows two fingers.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNO58WdUptU&feature=bz301

    It’s a complete load of crap. A silly allegation started on a conservative blog, which has wended its way to the Fox News website and will probably be a topic of discussion on their puerile election analysis segments and programs.

    But seriously — one candidate giving the finger to another? Really? The fact that allegations like this are being made stands out, in my estimation, as a clear signal that the Democratic primary has officially jumped the shark, and needs to end but quick.

  • Caped Composer… Glad to oblige. But be warned, if these innane comments continue, I’m coming back for another segment of the issues America cares most about.

  • kevo

    What are the agendas for the three remaining candidates? Is each concerned with the welfare of our nation and its citizens? Are two of the three only in the campaign to win the nomination, with not much more of a discernable agenda than simply winning at all costs? Who seems to have a better understanding of the struggle we common Americans are facing with rising costs and stagnated wages? Who will strive to bring equitable tax policies to bear when elected? Who calls the legitimate term “estate tax” and who is gaming the landscape with the term “death tax?”

    Well, I sure don’t think John McCain is in touch with Americans, and I don’t think Hillary with the Clinton millions understands the struggle common Americans face with rising costs and stagnated wages. Lost jobs, too. As for taxes, I haven’t heard any of the candidates talk much about that except John McCain, who wants the tax cuts for the wealthy made permanent.

    As an aside, I’ve wondered what the two LOSERS will accomplish when they return to their regular jobs. Who is more likely to work to the benefit of Americans? Do their histories predict their futures?

    It will be difficult to lose the cheering adoring crowds and not live on adrenalin anymore. Will there be anything left of their passion?

  • Very good point, Spero. The very idea that Obama would flip Hillary the bird is absurd. You know it’s BS from the get-go. How are Hillary supporters falling for this crap?

    This primary needs to end. It’s just embarrassing — for Hillary.

  • FWIW, I think that Obama did not intend to flip Hillary the bird the first time he did it — it was actually a scratch — but there was so much appreciative laughter that he did it again.

    It was perfect. Nobody can say for sure whether it was an intentional insult or just a cheek-scratching. It has deniable plausibility!

  • Dearest IFP (and Mary), with all due respect there comes a time in a woman’s life that gives men a pause. I won’t say that this time of life is a time of irrationality, but it is odd that both of you have posted strange comments on a couple of perfectly innocent posts at my blog. This is the time to take a personal account, perhaps go through your change.

  • 1000 dollhairs to the person who can develop a no fail test that can distinguish between a Clinton troll and a Cheney troll.

    Dead-enders baby!
    Dead-enders.

  • 62.On April 18th, 2008 at 6:07 pm, Memekiller said:
    But by all means, make the man more popular than he already is.

    LOL Exactly right.

  • He scratched his face–simple fact. Like # 37 said, it’s not the first time he’s made that gesture. And as far as the debate: I think Barak was holding back. He was trying to be a gentleman in the silliness debate yet in the silly season. He showed enormous restraint by not giving in and lowering himself to either Hillary’s level or those dumbass “mods”. Please, do you think someone as intelligent as that man was lost for words? Just wait until the GE, McCain’s gonna get schooled!

  • #77 And what was he trying to say on Iran? The whole answer was a mess, compared with Hillary thoughtful response. And then on payrol taxes, another complete mess. He wasn’t prepared.

  • Maria said:

    Dale, seriously?! Mary commented at your blog? Link! Link!

    Well someone signed “Mary”, but I think I’m being conned.

  • Obama flipping Hillary the bird? OK, I watched the video and can see how some reached that conclusion… but there are people (and apparently Obama is one) who use their middle fingers (for things other than flipping the bird). I know some who use their middle fingers to point, to scratch, whatever. I’m unconvinced, just as I was unconvinced about the Cheney “flipping the bird” video. Overall, Obama has run a classy campaign and is leading. Why would he resort to a cheap shot gesture at Clinton?

    As for Obama’s performance at the debate, I finally had a chance to watch my recording last night. Based on what I’d read, I expected him to be really bad. Which he wasn’t at all. There were times he stumbled over his words, but so what. He gave good answers in the long run. As did Hillary, other than the first 45 minutes where she piled on Obama when Gibson and Stephanopolous were asking those inane questions that Obama has already answered a million times. How tiresome for him, and for us.

    The primary campaign needs to end soon. Time to turn our attention to McCain!

  • Balloon Juice (see link on CB’s homepage) has a photo of Obama’s “flipping” from the side. Ummm, not so much.

  • This is possibly the most thoroughly hilarious thread I have ever read – since the Internets were invented!!! Fortunately, my keyboard survived, since I’ve learned to reflexively turn my head when I LOL! Is there some kind of special Web Award this thread can be nominated for???

  • The farcical non debate with non issues was a lose-lose. ABC Mouse Monopoly lost me as a viewer and the American Public lost any hope of being informed voters. If Clinton can’t even see the facts she is blind and deaf as well as being the #1 confabulator. Sorry, I couldn’t resist the last dig.

  • Obama supporters at that rally thought Obama was flipping HRC and her supporters the bird. Listen to reaction.
    Anybody who uses his middle finger to point to stuff should not be running for president.

    But it isn’t how Obama supporters view that video that counts… nor HRC voters…it’s the undecided.

    The Obama followers that have so much fun ridiculing HRC supporters will blame her and us for his failure to win in November. But in fact the blame will lay squarely with you.

  • Beep,

    Not to hijack your comments, but I couldn’t resist adding to the funniest damn thing I’ve seen all week:

    Mod: And we’re back! We’re still talking with Sens. Clinton and Obama over the fact that Senator Clinton has a much wider breadth of experience in farting.

    Obama: You know, one of my campaign volunteers has some Gas-X; it’s backstage if you want some. All that gas can’t be terribly comfortable.

    Clinton: What? Gas-X? What kind of out-of-touch elitist are you? My grandfather taught me to fart! Millions of small-town Americans do it every day, the same way their parents and grandparents did for generations! Why do you think you’re qualified to be President if you can’t even relate to the average American’s digestive problems?

    Obama: Now wait a minute, I am just as in tune with the American digestive tract as anyone who’s ever eaten Taco Bell. I’m merely wondering what passing gas has to do with being President.

    Clinton: How would you ever survive any diplomatic dinners? Passing gas is just the least of it! You probably don’t remember back in 1992, when President George H.W. Bush vomited on the Japanese Prime Minister and then fainted. I saw it. I was there, at that very moment coming under attack from schizophrenic sushi chefs wielding large knives. Or maybe that another dinner. I can’t remember. Did I just miss-speak?

  • JavierA, Nell, et al, as an Obama supporter I strongly encourage you to take this “flipping the bird” thing as far as you can. It is in no way completely insane. It doesn’t even make you look like a complete moron.

  • Longtime lurker here, finally coaxed out of my shell by the absolute stupidity of the people who think Obama actually gave the middle finger to Hillary Clinton during a televised address.

    You are either the bigest trolls I’ve ever seen or so unbelievably stupid you need to have your voting rights taken away from you. Good God.

  • So the Hillary people have officially run out of arguments.

    After Birdgate doesn’t work, I assume they’ll tell the teacher that Obama was passing notes in study hall.

  • Asking hard questions? They were hardly questions.! Hey,Hellary,here’s hard question for you.How about a comment on this:———————————————————————————————————————————————————————-The case of Peter Paul vs. Clinton re: Campaign finance fraud involving Hillary’s Senatorial campaign.What’s that you say? Never heard of it? I guess Mc Cain’s not the only one the MSM is filtering through a diaphanous lense. Here with is a sample. (There are 22 million hits on google about this case ,but little to nothing reported in MSM.)———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————Yet the civil fraud trial of Bill Clinton for defrauduing Hillary’s largest donor in 2000 into giving her campaign more than $1.2 million, pending in Los Angeles courts since 2003, is now preparing for a November, 2008 trial. The discovery that is now proceeding after a February 21 hearing, and the pending trial, have NEVER been announced by the mainstream media.

    Hillary was able to extricate herself as a co-defendant in the case in January, 2008 after years of appeals to be protected by the First Amendment from tort claims arising out of federal campaign solicitations she made. Her abuse of the intent of California’s anti-SLAPP law after the California Supreme Court refused to dismiss her from the case in 2004 is emblematic of her contempt for the Rule of Law.

    Hillary will be called as a witness in both discovery and the trial according to the trial court Judge who so-advised Hillary’s attorney David Kendall when he dismissed Hillary as a co-defendant in 2007. A subpoena is being prepared this month and will be served personally on Hillary, along with Chelsea, Pa Gov. Ed Rendell, Al Gore and other well known political and media figures.

    Yet the media has refused to report about this landmark civil fraud case.

  • MANTRA OF OUR CORPORATE [RULING] ELITES:
    Pay a living wage?……………..Not gon’na happen
    Universal healthcare?…………..Negatory
    Retirement benefits?……………Nothing
    Publicly financed elections?…….No way
    Reverse global warming?………..Nunca
    Free to travel?……………………..Nyet
    Let them eat cake?…………………No
    Let them cling to guns & Bibles?….Bingo!
    -And this differentiates us from Islamic extrememism, how?

  • Comments are closed.