Dems are nowhere near ‘Nixonland’

Paul Krugman’s latest column is generating a lot of attention, and with good reason; it’s a provocative perspective on the topic d’jour. I’m generally an enthusiastic Krugman fan — though I’ve been a little troubled of late by his apparent pre-occupation with opposing Barack Obama — and today’s piece takes a few interesting twists and turns.

In 1956 Adlai Stevenson, running against Dwight Eisenhower, tried to make the political style of his opponent’s vice president, a man by the name of Richard Nixon, an issue. The nation, he warned, was in danger of becoming “a land of slander and scare; the land of sly innuendo, the poison pen, the anonymous phone call and hustling, pushing, shoving; the land of smash and grab and anything to win. This is Nixonland.”

The quote comes from “Nixonland,” a soon-to-be-published political history of the years from 1964 to 1972 written by Rick Perlstein, the author of “Before the Storm.” As Mr. Perlstein shows, Stevenson warned in vain: during those years America did indeed become the land of slander and scare, of the politics of hatred.

And it still is. In fact, these days even the Democratic Party seems to be turning into Nixonland.

Krugman goes on to lament the “bitterness of the fight for the Democratic nomination,” and all the “venom out there.”

Maybe I’m in the minority, but this primary fight hasn’t seemed that ugly to me at all. Indeed, aside from occasional moments of discomfort, and a few annoying direct-mail pieces sent by both of the leading candidates, it’s actually been kind of mild. Plenty of hardball, but not much in the way of dirtyball, at least not yet.

In 2004, a Democratic group affiliated with Dick Gephardt ran a TV ad that focused in on image of Osama bin Laden, while telling viewers that Howard Dean is unprepared for a “dangerous world.” That was ugly. Ron Brownstein recently noted, “At one New York City debate late in the 1984 race, Walter Mondale and Gary Hart battered each other so relentlessly that Jesse Jackson almost needed to physically separate them. In an especially heated 1992 encounter, Bill Clinton appeared ready to lean over and deck Jerry Brown.”

This year has been quite pleasant by comparison.

Krugman adds:

I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody.

Krugman didn’t offer any specific examples of Obama supporters’ “venom,” but the criticism itself strikes me as a little unfair. If Obama isn’t playing dirty, and his campaign isn’t playing dirty, why take on overly-enthusiastic fans?

Does Obama have some fanatical supporters? Of course. Does Hillary Clinton? Sure. Does Ron Paul? Good lord, yes. Are fanatics annoying? Undoubtedly, yes — it’s one of the distinguishing characteristics of a fanatic.

But over-generalizing about a larger campaign because some of its supporters are exasperating seems inherently excessive. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve been annoyed by various candidates’ allies, and if I began to judge a campaign on the fervor of its most rabid fans, I probably wouldn’t vote at all. But therein lies the rub: it’s not the fault of the campaign or the candidate if some of their fans are idiots.

In some ways, this is the downside to online communication. My suspicion is that Krugman sees the volume of nasty emails and comment-section contributions from the truly unhinged, and thinks, “Wow, this sure is a venomous primary.” And if nasty emails and comment-section contributions were representative of our public discourse, I’d be the first to agree with the observation.

Fortunately, I don’t think that’s the case. A few nuts can sound awfully loud given the quantity of nonsense they produce, but on the whole, I see a largely above-board primary fight between two great candidates, both of whom enjoy strong support from the Democratic mainstream.

“Nixonland,” I’m pleased to report, appears nowhere in sight.

You are right. It hasn’t been particularly ugly except for on-line comments. And if Krugman means them, he is right about that. On some other blogs, I’ve read some really hyper Obama supporter comments. But no where else. And I doubt they are having much impact. What has been negative is the media, not the candidates and their supporters. And most of the media negativity has sprung from their apparently deeply imbedded negative attitudes about women. I think they think it’s just about Hillary, but every woman I know isn’t taking it that way.

  • Great post, and thank you.

    I’ve seen more than once a comment on this very blog along the lines of “I liked Obama until his fans ticked me off too many times. Now I’m voting against him.”

    People need to understand that this response is fundamentally irrational. Obama is not defined in the slightest bit by his fans. Obama is defined by his own plans and his own behavior.

  • Common sense response, as always, CB…

    Would you mind writing something truly ridiculous once and a while? That seem to drive up traffic to a number of other bloggers (including Krugman…)

  • Krugman didn’t offer any specific examples of Obama supporters’ “venom,” but the criticism itself strikes me as a little unfair. If Obama isn’t playing dirty, and his campaign isn’t playing dirty, why take on overly-enthusiastic fans?

    I think you just answered you own question there. 😉

    Does Obama have some fanatical supporters? Of course. Does Hillary Clinton? Sure. Does Ron Paul? Good lord, yes.

    And that, right there, is the essential flaw in Krugman’s article. Sure, Obama has his share of fanatics, some of whom are venomous towards Hillary – but the same is true of Hillary’s supporters (a fact which Krugman conveniently ignores). I could browse the forums of hillaryis44.com right now and come up with a treasure trove of hateful, spiteful comments directed towards Barack Obama. But Krugman doesn’t mention any of this, and this sort of dishonesty really lowers my opinion of him as a columnist.

  • But therein lies the rub: it’s not the fault of the campaign or the candidate if some of their fans are idiots.

    I’m not so sure I agree.

    Creating a personality cult seems to me to be a foundational premise of the Obama campaign. Which makes me feel that the Obama campaign is responsible for its fanatics in a way that the Ron Paul campaign, for example, is not.

  • Pff. The unhinged commentors are running 50/50 and they’re the same 20 or 30 on *every* site. Krugman’s problem is he doesn’t like Obama and he’ll reach for anything to try to push that message. He doesn’t give a fig for balance or honesty.

  • I normally love Krugman, but that column was pathetic.

    At least David Brooks and Thomas Friedman justify their bullshit feelings by claiming to base it in a lame pop psychology observation or a random conversation with a cab driver. Krugman’s just pulling this out of his ass.

  • You know, it could just be that one of the reasons Obama supporters are getting more and more exasperated is the condescending BS concern-trolling about how Obama is creating a cult of personality just because his supporters are actually inspired by him.

    When every one of his speeches is about what we can do and how it will be a hard slog, but we can change this nation together, it is absolutely ridiculous to keep spewing this nonsense talking point. I try to be civil, but the more posts I see like sarabeth’s above, the less willing I am to take them lightly.

  • And while we are nowhere near ‘Nixonland,’ Obama is nowhere near Bush, as Krugman, um, I’ll go with implies:

    I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again.

    For me, that was pretty much the last straw with Krugman. To allude that a popular Democratic candidate is in any way like Bush is crossing the line. Invoking such absurdity should result in a new law; we have Godwin’s for Hitler, maybe we should have Krugman’s False Corollary (KFC): whenever someone refers to a Democrat as Bush-esque, they are presupposing and inherently false premise while simultaneously making an ass out of themselves.

  • Dude. Obama’s campaign motto is “yes we can”. Hillary’s is “yes she can”.

    Who the hell is creating a cult of personality again??

  • Yeah, what TR said.
    It seems like Krugman’s becoming a little delusional/unhinged in his support of Hillary. It’s getting hard to see him walking back from some of his statements if Obama wins the nomination.
    And did Krugman not see that fanatical response to Ted Kennedy’s endorsement of Obama by the head of NY NOW? How do you ignore stuff like that?

  • I thought Krugman’s column today was over the top. I won’t condone anyone’s hate speach but, I’m tired of the “cult of personality” meme. Perhaps another way to describe Obama’s campaign is that it’s led by a gifted politician, who generates lots of enthusiasm among Democrats and also appeals to many that would never vote for Clinton in the general election.

  • Also, I’ve got to agree with some of the previous posts on the whole “cult” of personality meme being pushed by the Clintons. I consider myself a strong, independent woman, and to be told that supporting Obama somehow makes me capable of being brainwashed is deeply offensive. A lot of us are excited because for the first time in our lives (I’m 32) we have someone we actually WANT to vote for, not someone we feel that we need to vote against.

  • Good god, sarabeth, where are you pulling these “seems to me” and “makes me feel” statements out? Ron Paul is a delusional, racist loon, doesn’t mind making sure people know that and sows the seeds of his utopian goals everywhere he can! All he’s got is his personality to back that stuff up! Obama’s making sensible policy and putting forth (I admit in platitudes and empty rhetoric) sensible cultural goals that people believe can be accomplished without eliminating one or more groups of other, less desirable, people.

    Steve’s right on today–Krugman’s column creeped me out and the Professor needs to take a breath and take another look at the big picture. Thanks, Steve!

  • td @ #7 makes a point I’ve been thinking about for a while now. All this blog-flaming feels like a bunch of twelve-year-olds deciding to make trouble for their own entertainment rather than any real conviction. And the fact that it’s happening all over the place all at once makes it feel like an orchestrated tactic, not a spontaneous outpouring of real feeling.

    Krugman’s big mistake is putting this out to the general public as if it were a real situation instead of a few clownsuits who got bored with playing World of Warcraft and started using similar tactics in the real world just for the hell of it.

    Full disclosure: I play World of Warcraft myself and I see this kind of garbage going on all the time. The difference is that WoW is a fantasy. This is real, and it matters. Krugman needs to get a little perspective on this and stop muddying up the waters with a lot of bogus outrage.

  • In some ways, this is the downside to online communication. My suspicion is that Krugman sees the volume of nasty emails and comment-section contributions from the truly unhinged

    No doubt Krugman gets a lot of it himself, which probably does affect his judgment. I wouldn’t doubt that if any of us received hundreds if not thousands of nasty emails that we’d have to try pretty hard to remain objective. That said, this latest column of Krugman’s is counter-productive to say the least, and isn’t fair to Obama since Obama can hardly choose who supports him.

  • Here’s my impression down here in commenterland: Very general of course. This blog attracted the attention of a lot of new people last week. Some were Obama supporters and some were trollish Clinton haters. These two groups enabled each other to drive the discourse ballistic. When they drove the reasonable Clinton supporters out of the conversation, the haters seemed to have mostly left and their enablers on the Obama side have taken over the discourse and are calling for “reasonableness”. So now we have largely a new set of commenters. It was an interesting sequence.

  • Mark Penn today:

    The “GOP attack machine,” Penn suggested, “skewed the perceptions of such distinguished public servants as Al Gore and John Kerry” in a way that left perceptions of them “out of touch with reality.”
    Penn said that Hillary has “withstood” this process…

    Now if she can just survive the big bad left-wing smear machine with it’s awful cults…

    She’s been vetted.
    Just not within her own party….

  • I was very turned off by the nonsensical accusations of racism thrown at the Clinton’s and pushed by the Obama campaign. And it was Obama himself who started the “her supporters will vote for me, but I don’t know that mine will vote for her” BS.

    Clinton overstated her “Obama likes Republican ideas” attack, but I sure didn’t like Obama parroting the nonsense that Republicans were “the party of ideas” for the last 15-20 years.

    I visit only a handful of political sites, this one being a prime one, and I must say I have seen a lot more nastiness coming from Obama supporters than Clinton supporters.

  • Krugman is usually a great read, but he’s obviously got a bit of a pro-Clinton issue going on. No mention of Bill Clinton’s flexible facts, but unfounded allegations of Obama’s supporters using Nixonian tactics?

    It’s sad, really, seeing such a reputable guy do this to himself.

    BTW, I do agree that some of the Obama people are acting like freaking idiots, but that doesn’t stop me from liking the guy (and he’s not the only one with a loser contingent). I support him because he’s smart and his heart’s in the right place, plus he doesn’t come with tons of baggage and a ready-to-go opposition party filled with slimers of all stripes who have dreamed for decades of going after him.

    Hillary doesn’t deserve those slimers. But neither do we. Part of the “change” meme is about letting that stuff go. Nothing personal Hillary, but you’ve got too many issues compared to your opponent.

  • And did Krugman not see that fanatical response to Ted Kennedy’s endorsement of Obama by the head of NY NOW? How do you ignore stuff like that?

    Excellent point. Talk about unhinged.

  • 3:44 pm, DaveWoo @#5 said:

    “.. I could browse the forums of hillaryis44.com right now and come up with a treasure trove of hateful, spiteful comments directed towards Barack Obama..”

    Thanks for the heads up. Wow, what an eyeful. I’ll vote for Hillary if she is the nominee, but I’m hoping for Obama. That site in no way sells Hillary to me. didn’t read every comment, but the 10-15 I did just made me thinkg rethugs…major ugh!! I dont think that’s what Hillary is going for…Let’s just play nice and save the hardcore stuff for the repugs..

  • Dale @ 20 – you bring up an interesting point. Somewhat O.T. – yet it would be interesting to see the # increase of commenters (commentators?) that have joined the discussions here. Applied to the scale/# of readers/hits.

    In the end, as Dale, you pointed out, new commenters at Steve’s site – this can only be for the better (if ballistic…discourse is over; please dear little fishes & demi-gods let it be so!).

  • I wonder how many of the pro-Obama supporters are actually really in favor of him. I’ve wondered if a number of Hillary haters (suffering from severe CDS) have crept into the fray, posting endless troll messages.

  • Wow, I’m spending a while just gaping at hillaryis44.com.. I’m amazed at the amount of insulation the community there is trying to throw up against the outside world.

    Thanks, Fran..
    This place is seriously infested with Obamamoles.. You’ve got to get admin to start culling and locking the info grabbers out of here fast.
    I will contact ADMIN with a closed site I can give you we created months ago for discussing plans and strategies not for Obama camp eyes.
    Our posters are true and tested loyalist… Let outsiders contact you via e-mail and you decide the validity of info and converse with the Trusted on this site. Under no circumstances give th eweb address to unknows or outsides. The fewer the people the better the security.
    I have compiled a list of people here I think are “moles” will pass it along to ADMIN for a second opinion.
    Shut the windows and lock the doors of info from the enemy…
    Mrs. S.

    Keep in mind she’s talking about a PUBLIC WEBSITE. Good holy Jesus.

  • Back in the early 1980s, the Lakers and Celtics dominated the NBA. 1983 was the exception; it was the year of the Philadelphia 76ers.

    It was the last game of the Eastern Conference finals at the old Boston Garden, and the Sixers had the game in hand. Time out was called with about a minute to go, and the Boston fans rose to give their team a final standing ovation. Then, they began to chant, “Beat L.A., Beat L.A.,” encouraging their Eastern Conference rivals to take home the hardware. The Sixers did just that, sweeping the Lakers in four games.

    Most supporters of either Clinton or Obama will be disappointed if their candidate isn’t the eventual nomimee, but we know the real battle will come in November. When the time comes, we’ll all be on the same side.

  • Dale @ 20:

    I think your analysis is spot on.

    Another part of me wonders to want extent your observations of “thread politics” can be said to mirror the real world competition of a caucus, a primary, or an election. If one allows oneself to get driven out of the dialog then one either lacks persuasive arguments or the political will to insist on a particular vision of reality. [To that extent, everyone who participates in politics (the group interpretation of reality) is a cultist.]

    Politics is the survival of the fittest. It is blood sport. If one’s followers quit too easily it is a reflection of their political will. Such meekness did not win elections in 2000 or 2004. Most certainly such meekness will not win in 2008.

  • I don’t like the word cult and I don’t think it applies very strongly to Obama’s supporters. I agree that Obama does have substance, but that’s not what drives his supporters. He’s a pied piper though hopefully he is leading toward a good place.

    And what you have to remember is that on a Hillary site you don’t get criticism like “She doesn’t have substance.” You get “She is evil!”

  • I think what we’re seeing with Krugman is the birth of Obama Derangement Syndrome. Odd that it would come from someone who’s latest book is The Conscience of a Liberal, but I guess that’s the whole point of the “derangement” part.

  • Sduffys & Dale,

    You are both right. I have been reading Steve’s blogs for the past 9 months or so, but haven’t been spending much time commenting until recently. It seems that this blog has become a beacon for Obama supporters and Hillary haters alike.

    Hillary has the know-how, and the ability to lead this country out from this current f@!Ked up situation, just as much if not more so than Obama, yet the conversation here is usually very one-sided, with people saying things like Hillary could not get the votes that Obama can.

    What people fail to acknowledge is that people on the far right hate Hillary so much that they go to Democratic Primaries and Caucuses specifically to play the spoiler role, but this DOES NOT mean that they will vote for him in the general election.. on the contrary, they will wait until Hillary has been eliminated then make Obama their prime target.

    Since he lacks experience, and is prone to not voting on key issues, he is likely to be easier to defeat in the fall. Don’t fall into the trap set by Republicans, they want to see Obama win the nomination because they think he will be easier to beat!

  • Curmudgeon (#18) – “And the fact that it’s happening all over the place all at once makes it feel like an orchestrated tactic, not a spontaneous outpouring of real feeling.”

    I agree. And always remember: even paranoids have real enemies.

    A caller to Thom Hartmann’s radio program this morning said she had heard that some Republicans were being paid a dime a post (or call) to stir up trouble in the principal progressive blogs and talk shows. I have no way of checking that rumor, but certainly have no reason to distrust it. All”s fair in love, war and politics, I guess; we’ll just have to develop thicker skins and charge ahead.

    As for Krugman, I’m sure gets a mountain of hate-mail the rest of us never see, so that may account for his peculiar column this morning. As I pointed out in another post, the Hillary-Obama feud is very good natured considering what’s gone on before. Neither of them even begins to compare with Nixon-Chotiner of recent memory, or Bush-Rove for that matter. Nothing compares with the viciousness of the 1800 US presidential campaigns by John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Politics was much, much dirtier in the birthplace of democracy, Athens circa 500 B.C.

    I will go so far as to say, only anecdotally, that I haven’t encountered a Hillary supporter who plans to vote for McCain or sit this one out, whereas I have encountered (people who claim to be) Obama supporters who threaten to shoot themselves in the foot if they don’t get their way. Maybe Krugman was reacting to something like that.

  • Don’t fall into the trap set by Republicans, they want to see Obama win the nomination because they think he will be easier to beat! -Greg

    I hope they think he’s as easy to beat as Democrats thought Reagan would be.

    What people fail to acknowledge is that people on the far right hate Hillary so much that they go to Democratic Primaries and Caucuses specifically to play the spoiler role, but this DOES NOT mean that they will vote for him in the general election. -Greg

    I find it hard to believe that spoilers have had that much of an effect on the primaries. Do you have any sort of evidence to back up this claim at all?

  • I will go so far as to say, only anecdotally, that I haven’t encountered a Hillary supporter who plans to vote for McCain… -Ed Stephan

    Actually, there was one floating around this weekend, I don’t remember the name offhand, and it’s too unimportant to look-up, but there was at least one.

    Frankly, I’ve said I wouldn’t vote for Hillary before, and that was long before I ever chose to support Obama. For me, it’s all about authorizing the war. I’d have a real hard time sleeping at night knowing that I rewarded someone with my vote instead of holding them accountable for an unforgivable mistake.

    I’m struggling with that, especially since McCain would be so much worse (no, I wouldn’t vote for him, either). Here’s to hoping I don’t have to choose between two people who started the war in November.

  • This is a 53 year old white male professional who supports Obama, not because of any personality cult, but because he promises to fight against partisanship. (Any one who grew up in the 60’s is too cynical to have heroes.) I used to be an independent but voted straight Democratic in 2004 and 2006 because of Bush. It seems liberals like Krugman only think in partisan terms; replacing one Bush with another Clinton seems to top their victory fantasies.

    Although I am closer to Clinton politically, I will not vote for her over McCain. In1992 Bill Clinton was elected with a Democratic Congress. Because Clinton decided to go it alone with just Democrats on taxes and health care, in 1994 the Democratic House was replaced with Republicans. I want centrist practical solutions to our problems, not one-upmanship. McCain has demonstrated that he is willing to cross the aisle to forge legislation. Thus McCain would be a better choice than Hillary for those of us fed up with Washington. It is why the right detests McCain, because he would legitimize centrist legislation, and a Democratic Congress is more likely after four years of McCain than four years of Hillary.

  • To the extent the Clinton campaign contributes to the “Obama’s followers are falling for the cult of personality”, aren’tthey just engaging in the Rovian ploy of making a negative out of the opponent’s strength? One area where Obama kicks HRC’s tail is personality. If she can mock that advantage successfully and contribute to a narrative the Tweety Birds and Timmeh’s and the other members of the megaphone pick up on, she wins that battle, at least a little bit. Karl would be proud.

  • I agree that the campaigns themselves are quite civil, but I don’t think that the attitudes of the supporters are irrelevant. It isn’t just the crazies and the semi-trolls who are notably venomous. It is something I’ve seen among my friends, and in internet forums that are not political.

    Essentially I think it’s her Iraq vote joining up with the anti-personality cult she has.

    Keep in mind that most readers are the regular people and the supporters. They are not irrelevant, they form a part of many people’s electoral experience, to put it mildly.

    Also, given that a central aspect of Obama’s platform is his ability to unite and inspire people and change the tone… it’s worth taking a look at his current audience, Democrats, and seeing whether he’s uniting them or not, and in general what tone he’s inspiring. By his own terms, the supporters become even more relevant, if you take those terms seriously at all.

  • Thom Harman mentioned that some who commented on his site in 2004 election campaigns after they were traced down were being paid by the post…$.10 a post. I’ve noticed several comments here were basically repeats of earlier comments by the same people posting virtually the same comment. But this would only explain a few. But as a regular here I have noticed the vehement language and insults directed at the Clinton campaign have flooded the comments section from time to time. When discussing the topics the points were arguably valid but then came the name calling and the insulting remarks that seemed to do nothing but disrupt the discussion and drive off rationality.

    It produced a lot of bitterness and resentments not supported by either campaign but by supporters of these candidates…most notably by Obama supporters where to question him was to be insulted and condemned. But these insults seemed to be coming from only a few posting over and over again. It may not have translated to the MSM but to the voters it appears to have made defensiveness an art form. Republicans deserve our scorn for the disasters they have caused but neither of these candidates deserve our scorn but the battle between some of their supporters is vicious as in the “you must hate Hillary or you’re scum” crowd. So unnecessary and so noticeable. That must be what Krugman has picked up on. As one Obama supporter stated, “You don’t have to be a Hillary supporter to defend her. She’s an important part of the democratic party.”

  • ***comment 30*** “…Politics is the survival of the fittest. It is blood sport. If one’s followers quit too easily it is a reflection of their political will. Such meekness did not win elections in 2000 or 2004. Most certainly such meekness will not win in 2008….”

    Sounds like a republican pep talk. Rove was a gutter tactician who lost elections for a number of campaigns and was almost always wrong yet he plays by these same rules. He convinced republicans they’d sweep up in ’06 because the dems were showing themselves weak on National security etc…Dems not buying into that meme won overwhelming victories…even governor’s races. There is a certain balance that must be maintained with one’s integrity and keep in mind Bush did not win either election, appointed by the SC in 2000 and prevented a count and stole the election in ’04. Truth inspiration and strength should never be confused with meekness. Courage and bravery is mixed with commitment to ones beliefs. Honesty and integrity far surpass the willingness to go to any lengths to win. How much respect can you have for dems acting like Rove just to win an election. I still believe that one day he will be made accountable. Acting like politics is a “blood sport” is exactly what is costing them not only this election but many more to come.

  • I just don’t get it. Just before February 5th, I was just as likely to vote for Hillary as Obama. Heck, I even toyed with voting for Edwards early on. I was concerned about the supposed “lack of experience” and was alarmed that he was “weak on reproductive rights” but these claims were found baseless after researching Obama’s positions. Hillary’s camp actually got me interested in finding out about Obama and I ended up liking his policies. How that turns me into a cult-follower is beyond me.
    I spent years defending Hillary and Bill Clinton against the right and defended Hillary when the Media was pronouncing the death of her political career after Iowa. I cheered when she won New Hampshire because it was a great dig at this manipulative media.
    If Hillary wins the nomination I will vote for her and have admonished folks in both camps who threaten to stay home or vote republican or green if their candidate doesn’t get the nod. I have heard Hillary supporters say that Mccain is moderate enough to vote for if Obama gets the nomination.
    This is crazy. It is like this weird nightmare of people you used to have respect for like Krugman and the Clintons malign a huge portion of the electorate. How is that projecting an image of wanting to be the president of all the people?
    So what would you have me do? Sit on my hands and say nothing while a candidate has his/her record distorted? Should I not dare to become a gender-traitor or act counter to the democratic machine? Should I just let the democratic party alienate young voters and first time voters because they happen to want something different? Who is being cult-ish here?

    After voting democratic my entire adult life I am suddenly not taken seriously by fellow democrats?

  • It’s nonsense. I attended last Tuesday’s caucus with 500-odd of my friends and neighbours, and all I saw was a bunch of ordinary people, 2/3rd’s of whom are pissed off with politics as usual, so they went with Obama. The cult thing is a desperate meme, pushed by the Clintons. As a long-time Obama supporter, I’m fed up with the Clinton camp, and their total inability to see that nominating her elects McCain. They’re the ones with the personality cult.

  • This post is spot-on. I commend to folks both William Kristol and Paul Krugman’s columns today–read them and see which one makes sense, and which one reads as a stream of consciousness rant (hint: Kristol’s, on the way the superdelegates will behave after Obama does well in the next several states, was the former).

    I too am a big fan of Krugman, and I haven’t the slightest idea what he’s talking about in today’s column. Having been in Iowa during the caucuses, I found almost all Dems sort of puzzled by the prospect of having at least three–and maybe more–really good candidates from which to choose. Not venom, no sniping, and, if the interviews on super tuesday are to be believed, the same feeling was predominant, if not shared by everyone, in those states.

    PeteCo is onto something, with Clinton and the “cult” meme. Don’t forget the “drug” meme and the “muslim” meme too, which Clinton’s handlers are glad to insinuate and then disclaim. As to the “Clinton rules” that Krugman focuses on–that the Clinton’s are subject to harsher criticism, such as with whitewater–Krugman has a point, but the Clinton rules also are their rules for dealing with their opponents–a no-holds barred politics of intimidation and innuendo. I will vote for Clinton if she’s the nominee, but if Clinton goes into the convention and, as Kristol points out, the only way she wins is by buying off the superdelegates, the chances of demobilizing the rapidly growing Dem base are scarily high.

  • Cheezburger (@13) and RacrX (@23),

    Krugman is no so much pro-Clinton, as he is anti-Obama; there’s a world of difference between the two positions.

    He (Krugman) had been pro-Edwards originally, like so many others on the left (myself among them); Edwards was more populist (read: more bloodthirsty in his pursuit of the big corporations) than either Obama or Clinton. It was only since Edwards showed signs of lagging behind in popular stakes (poll-wise), that that Krugman began to attack Obama. But, once he started, he’s been doing it relentlessly. His columns in the newspaper are but half of the story; he’s been equally obsessive in his blog postings. It’ll be interesting to see whether he’ll be able to force himself to endorse Obama should Obama get the nomination, or whether his antipathy for Obama will make him act like all those blog commenters he denounces… and keep him home, pouting, in November.

    It’s true that, judging by TCBR (the only blog where I read the *comments* as well as the main postings), Obama’s supporters (whether real or “concern troll” plants, like out wiener, I have no idea) are about 5:1 more likely than Clinton supporters to say “if Obama doesn’t get the nomination, I’ll take my toys and go home”. But that’s about the only thing Krugman got right in his today’s column.

    And, at that, he forgot to mention that the monkey-poo slung at Clinton by pro-‘bamas is coming from the low-grade blog commenters, whose statements don’t get much play in the MSM. While some of the monkey-poo thrown at Obama came from people fairly high in Clinton’s campaign hierarchy and had been blown up (often out of all proportion), “all over creation”.

    After 30+ hrs without power (and without TCBR, TP and TPM — the horror! Not to mention no heat and no hot water. Thank goodness for my old-fangled, Polack ideas which led me to insist on replacing an electric stove with a gas one), we’re back to normal. So, I guess, our primaries tomorrow will proceed as scheduled.

    Oh, and BTW… While “everything ‘lectrical” went belly-up, the phone kep’ workin’ jus’ fine. Yesterday and today, we had: 2 calls for Huckabee, 1 for McCain, 3 for Clinton (two from Bill) and NONE for Obama. Where are you Obamaniacs? Why are you forsaking Virginia?

  • I’m not following as closely as I did last time, but I remember some of Wes Clark’s opposition last time putting together videos to try to make him look like a Republican. Kerry supporters put flyers on the cars of everyone in the parking lot of a Clark rally, with made up nonsense about him. So yeah, this campaign season seems very cordial.

    Just hope it makes it through the convention that way.

  • There needs to be a name for this phenomenom, but I think a big part of Krugman’s problem is that when you criticize people like this, you get them mad and they come out in numbers, and as with any group, a certain percentage of them believe they can only be convincing through rudeness. And this reinforces the critic’s negative attitude about that group of people and when they criticize the group further, it reinforces the attitude of the group and they’ll complain in even larger droves. And somehow, the critic never realizes that the reason why this group is so mad at them is because of the criticism.

    Similarly, they never receive this kind of hate from the people who agree with them, so they imagine that this group must be civil and sane. And the more these like-minded people defend the critic, the more sane and kind they appear. They’ll send encouraging words of praise and all that, so it appears that one side is insane and the other side is rational.

    And maybe that’s the case and maybe not. But you can’t base a group’s sanity on whether or not they’re attacking you, but on what they’re saying. And you can’t base that attitude on the craziest attackers (which is almost always what they do) but on the group as a whole. In fact, it’s generally best to discard the craziest of the attackers, as there are crazies in EVERY group and you can’t fault the group for that. And sometimes, the crazies are just trolls looking for attention and sometimes they’re even people on the other team trying to embarrass their opponents by making them look bad. But instead, the people who stick in the critic’s head are the worst of the worst, and so the entire group is tainted by the actions of these.

    But I’ve noticed this phenomenom for years. I think I first noticed it from Ann Althouse, who used this reasoning to determine that conservatives are kind and rational and that liberals are the only rude ones on the net; based entirely on the fact that only liberals attacked her. Joe Klein definitely suffers from it. Most media people are that way, in fact. But again, if you say something that angers a group of people and pleases another group, it’s really not a big mystery as to why you might get attacked by the one group or praised by the other. That’s just to be expected. Perhaps a good name would be The Self-Fulfilling Critic, though I’m not entirely pleased with that phrase. Perhaps someone else already has a better name for it.

    But whatever it is, that’s what Krugman is experiencing. The more he attacks Obama, the more these people will attack him; but this isn’t necessarily indicitive of the Obama supporters. Krugman should try writing a bad column about Hillary to see if his theory holds up.

  • Paul Krugman talks about Obama supporters the way Nixon talked about hippies, as if they are a rag-tag band of neophytes intent on inflicting their political fad du moment on a country with grown-up problems.

    The reason this election has been so interesting is because Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are strong contenders. Let’s not get bitter if we end up on the wrong side of an imaginary divide.

  • Has it occurred to anyone else that these vicious attacks are actually being made by some of Karl Rove’s minions, posing as Obama supporters and attacking Hillary and her supporters? And vice-versa?

    Karl Rove got his start as one of Nixon’s ratfuckers whose job it was to sabotage Democratic campaigns. This would be a classic tactic for him, designed to divide and disrupt the Democratic party.

    Sound farfetched? When the madrassa rumors against Obama first surfaced they tried to frame Hillary for starting them.

  • myiq2xu @ 49 – I’ve definitely thought that, though it doesn’t need to be as nefarious as Rove. It’s such an easy thing to do as a way of scoring hits on both sides. Without a doubt, some of Obama people here really don’t like Hillary, but some of the worse hit jobs really smack of a dirty trickster. I think it’d be odd if they weren’t doing it.

    That’s why I just wish people would ignore the more extremist people who just pop up here out of nowhere. Maybe they’re longtime readers who always lurk, but more likely they’re outsiders trying to start a fight.

  • To all my liberal and progressive compatriots out there…. before you just dismiss Dr. Krugman, remember this…

    No Republican thinks that anything they say about any Democrat, and more broadly, any liberal, is anything but god’s truth…

  • When Maureen Dowd wrote scathing “commentary” about Hillary Clinton, she suddenly was writing the truth. Now that Krugman is writing mild criticism of Obama, he has lost his mind. Hmm….

  • “But over-generalizing about a larger campaign because some of its supporters are exasperating seems inherently excessive. I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve been annoyed by various candidates’ allies, and if I began to judge a campaign on the fervor of its most rabid fans, I probably wouldn’t vote at all. But therein lies the rub: it’s not the fault of the campaign or the candidate if some of their fans are idiots.”

    THIS

  • I read Dr. Krugman regularly, and was surprised and disappointed to see his comment about the Obama campaign. Frankly, I don’t see all this ‘venom” he describes, either. At least it does not seem to be coming from the candidates themselves.

  • Wasn’t Krugman refering to Obama supporters and not team Obama, per se? That was certainly how I read his piece. From my perspective, Krugman makes a good point. Reading comments on-line from various sites like The Fix, Talkingpointsmemo, HuffPo, etc, it seems to me that many of Obama supporters are hate the Clinton’s as much as the right wing does, and will go to any lengths to smear them. Anything Hillary says or does is evidence of EVIL. For example, Shuster says something totally inappropriate and yet many of the Obama supporters write (something like) “Shuster was out of line, but can you believe she’s calling for him to be fired.” As if the main afront was hers and not his. By the way, I’m a democrat, voted for Hillary, think she will probably lose the nomination and will happily support Obama in the general. I wonder tho if any/most/many of his supporters can say the same.

  • Funny how Krugman’s whiny style becomes so obvious when he messes in his own nest. His arguments here are as lame as usual, just aimed at a different audience. Imagine where the country would be had we only heeded the sage advice of good old Adlai Stevenson. How absurd to use the words of this two time loser to make a point. But since Krugman’s real point is that slander and scare; innuendo, the poison pen, the anonymous phone call and hustling, pushing, shoving; the land of smash and grab and anything to win, are all inventions of Richard Nixon, which alas even the Dems are now using (only in moderation of course), Krugman has his “get out of jail free card”.

  • Hey Krugman, is your office in close proximity to Bill Kristol’s? You used to write much better fact-based columns before Kristol was hired…

    Stick to “Jobless recovery” and “Exports vs GDP” graphs please.

    Great post, CB.

  • I can tell you where Krugman is seeing Nixonland — in the offices of the New York Times, where his unbearable and increasing unreadable colleagues can’t seem to do anything but whine about how they want to see a good, vicious, muddy fight and Barack Obama is just too big a sissy weakling to oblige them. The idea that he might want to discuss issues rather than engage in mud-wrestling, or that he might not want the eventual standard-bearer (himself or Hillary Clinton) to be damaged goods in the general election is totally foreign to their way of thinking. Maureen Dowd doesn’t just complain about the lack of a good fight among the Democrats — she keeps trying to provoke one, and then calling them all f*ggots if they don’t take her bait. The column in which she compared HIllary Clinton to a dominatrix and Obama and Edwards to masochists was one of the most revolting and revealing of this sick, damaged woman’s articles, but by no means unique. Frank Rich used to be a columnist I admired and enjoyed, but he seems to be following Dowd down the slope into crazy-land. No wonder Krugman is ready to bang his head against a wall — the rest of us suffer enough reading what passes for commentary these days, but he has to work with the purveyors of it.

  • I am stunned by the out-pouring of love for Obama, Mr. Bam-Bam by Americans. I do not know any other American politician, besides JFK who had been so dearly loved like this, even before he moves into the White House. Even the terrible, destructive and scornful American media are in love with him!!! Totally unbelievable, but it is true! This is a real magic and miracle. Obama should be commended for running the most organized and decent campaign of modern times. Hopefully, if he wins the nomination and the election as the President, his genius would continue to shine and he would be able to heal America and upgrade her.

  • I’m another one of those folks who would like Sen. Obama better if some of his supporters weren’t either glassy-eyed or venomous. They dominate the discussion section of every A-list blog that I read, as well as the blogs themselves. What is extremely disingenuous is when A-list bloggers proclaim themselves neutral, yet tout every Obama move and diss every Clinton one.

    The Shuster episode is extremely telling. If Shuster had dissed Michelle Obama, the outrage would have been thunderous, and rightly so. But when it’s the Clintons, they somehow deserve it. Honestly, the commenters at right-wing blogs are less hostile toward the Clintons than the lefties are. I don’t get it.

  • Comments are closed.