Dems, Iraq, and 2008

The NYT’s Adam Nagourney takes an interesting look today at an issue that’s likely to play as big an issue in the [tag]2008[/tag] presidential race as it did in [tag]2004[/tag], if not more so.

With [tag]Iraq[/tag] looming yet again over an American presidential campaign, senators considering a White House race are at a disadvantage over governors who might run, forced to explain their votes — and in some cases, alter their views — on an increasingly unpopular war. […]

By contrast, governors are finding considerable maneuvering room when it comes to Iraq. And they are taking advantage of it for now, while realizing that their lack of foreign policy experience is a disadvantage in an election that could focus on international affairs.

It’s highly unlikely that Dem voters would automatically reject a candidate who supported the 2003 war resolution — especially in light of the Kerry-Edwards ticket in ’04 — but it matters a great deal how candidates address it now. Does a candidate support a redeployment plan? Complete withdrawal? Timetables and deadlines? Some Dems seem to have stronger lines than others.

John Edwards seems to have the best response: “I think I was wrong to vote for the war,” Edwards said in an interview. “Bush made this mess that we are in now. My view is what America needs to do now is make it clear that we are going to get out.”

John Kerry has also expressed regret for the vote and now supports a deadline for withdrawal. “There’s nothing that our troops can do — nothing — to resolve the fundamental differences between the factions,” Kerry said. About McCain’s support for the war, Kerry added, “He’s dead wrong. I think it’s the wrong war in the wrong place.”

Some likely candidates voted against the war (Feingold, Dodd), some publicly criticized the invasion at the time (Clark), some were governors and didn’t have to take a position (Warner, Vilsack, Richardson), and then there are several senators who voted for the resolution and have to make clear where they stand now (Clinton, Bayh).

It need not be terribly difficult. The notion that opponents of the war are “soft” in a post-9/11 era was never true, and is just absurd now.

So, how will hawkish candidates “evolve” on the issue? Very carefully.

Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, both prospective 2008 candidates, have encountered hecklers protesting their support for the Iraq war. Both responded with hints of recalibrations in the way they discussed the issue, with Mrs. Clinton telling Democrats who nominated her on Wednesday for a second term to “stand with me” in pressing the White House and Iraqis to develop a plan that would permit American troops to come home. […]

When Mrs. Clinton was heckled by war protesters last week, she said that she stood by her support for the war, but added that she was beginning to see circumstances where the United States would be able to withdraw.

An adviser said this could prove to be the start of an evolution that would lead to Mrs. Clinton’s increasingly distancing herself from the conflict.

Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack declined to say in an interview how he would have voted on the war — “I’m not going to get into that; this isn’t about what happened in the past,” he said — which is a pretty tough sell, while Virginia’s Mark Warner opposes deadlines for withdrawal, but has a relatively compelling pitch.

“We have been put in this extraordinarily difficult situation,” Mr. Warner said. “My sense is going out without a plan is just as bad as going in without a plan. So I have not been one of those people who say that come heck or high water, we are going to leave by a fixed date.”

Mr. Warner spoke empathetically of his potential rivals who as senators voted for the war.

“I don’t think any U.S. senator, regardless of party, if they had known there weren’t W.M.D., that we were going to get selected leaks, I don’t think anybody would have voted for it,” he said. “Second-guessing people who made a valiant attempt at judgment is not where I am at.”

That’s a solid answer, and I think most Dems would agree that’s not where they are either.

It’s probably worth keeping in mind that conditions in Iraq could deteriorate — or improve — by the time the primaries begin, so some of the people who have balked at redeployment and/or timetables may feel differently after the war begins year five. But one thing seems likely: there will be far less diversity among Dems on Iraq in 2008 than there was in 2004 (Kucinich on one side, Lieberman on the other).

Warner sounds like he’s got a good handle on the situation, and even better it sounds like those are his sincere beliefs rather than some punched up script somebody else wrote. We should keep our eye on him.

This situation would also benefit candidates like Barack Obama and Wes Clark.

Obama is a senator but hasn’t been around long enough to have a lot of negatives on his record.

Clark has never been an elected official but has plenty of military street cred, is levelheaded and has shown an excellent grasp of the issues on talk shows.

Let’s see what happens down the road. It will be interesting whatever it is.

  • I have no problem with politicians changing their position on the war — many of them, and many americans supported it based upon lies and misinformation and deceit that was handed to us as facts. If I lived in a cave all my life and someone told me that the sky was green with yellow polkadots, I’d probably believe them till I went outside and saw for myself.

    It’s just a shame that certain politicians took so long to ‘come out of their caves.’

  • I’m with Tom: any democrat can easily say, “Yes, I voted for the war. I did so because I made the mistake of believing the lies told to us by all the Republicans in charge. I ask you to forgive me and I promise never to do that again.”

  • We need a fresh candidate, not Kerry,Bush, Nader or Clinton. John Edwards is a JFK type and could sell if he doesn’t have too much garbage in his history. The neo-cons will push John McCain, and McCain is worse than Bush.
    Also, the Diebold machines could well be stacked once again. So, don’t hold your breath. Unless people wake up and demand serious change, we will just get more of the same.
    Don Imus, the humerous host of IMUS IN THE MORNING has a great idea. Send Bush to Iraq for trial and bring Saddam back here to finish Bush’s term. That makes better sense than what our leaders are doing to our country, constitution and economy. IMUS is a conservative who just bought a T-Shirt reading “I’ve had enough, Impeach Bush.”
    It is a strange country that has to go to The Daily Show, Bill Maher, Jay Leno and Imus for any honesty in media.

  • This is why Hillary is so annoying – she always has to “evolve”. This is really so simple. They should all get up there and say “Look, I bought what President Bush was selling and that was a mistake.” Edwards has it right. The evolving position is just more ammo for the right as they lick their paws waiting for Hillary to run. Why can’t they simply take a position? I do give Republican’ts (is there “officially” an apostrophe?) credit for taking positions and sticking to them, albeit ridiculous ones.

    This one is simple: the war was wrong and we should be making every effort to get out of it as quickly and as safely as we can.

    Btw – heard Byrd’s speech from the Senate floor from February 2003 where he said that in the buildup to war, the Senate was “ominously, ominously quiet.” No discussion of the pros and cons, just all jumping on the bandwagon. In their rush to avoid being painted as “soft”, they abdicated their obligations to all of us. I think they all have some ‘splaining to do – other than Feingold, etc.

  • I think it’s worth keeping an eye on Bill Richardson. He’s got plenty of credentials (Representative, Secretary of Energy, Governor) and actually has a solid foreign policy record. With the exception of the Undersecretary of State that just got invited to Pyonyang, I think Richardson might be the only politician who can talk to the North Koreans.

  • NMDem – I admit to not knowing a ton about Richardson but can say that everytime I see/hear him speak, I get the sense that he would be a good candidate and am curious as to why there isn’t more buzz about him other than being (no offense) from New Mexico, which isn’t a traditional feeder state for presidents. Has he announced or is he expected to?

  • Homer – Right now Richardson is gearing up for reelection here in New Mexico. I can’t imagine that he would lose. You’re right about the lack of buzz about him, which I think has everything to do with our somewhat forgotten state. He’s getting some play right now with the Guard deployment, but with Arnold in CA, it remains to be seen how much this will continue. He has not announced, but people close to his re-election campaign seem to think that he’ll toss his hat in come 08. For the first time ever, New Mexico has a big time politician as governor, and he’s done some good things and some controversial things. I hope his successes in NM aren’t creating a false hope for him. Also, I’m not sure where he stands on the war. That, of course, could make or break any aspirations.

  • Hey, don’t forget to include Gore’s position against the war… he’s an increasingly likely candidate in ’08

  • NMDem, I have always been a fan of Richardson – pull some Red states in the Southwest over to the Blue column, pull Hispanic votes, diverse and deep resume, Emergy (which is clearly a big issue now), he did some ambassador work. . . but I have this vague recollection of hearing that there were some personal baggage issues that would come out in a Presidential campaign? Know anything about that, or is my memory failing me again? I personally could care less – I’d rather have a raving hedonist who could kick ass as leading the country than a pious moralist who couldn’t lead a poodle on a short chain (yeah, i was a big Clinton fan, why would you ask? 🙂 )

  • Bill Richardson will be the dark-horse candidate who emerges from the pack of usual suspects, much as Bill Clinton did in ’92. There has been talk of his being a womanizer, but, frankly, show me a politician who ISN’T rumored to be one (and I’ll show you a politician with no personality who has no chance of winning!) Richardson has all the right attributes on his resume, and I think that being from New Mexico is an ADVANTAGE, not a disadvantage– the southwest is one of the fastest-growing, most diverse regions of the country right now, and there should be some leadership at the national level that reflects that reality. Plus, it’s a region that’s a lot more likely to swing into the blue column than the southeast is! So, as far as I’m concerned, Richardson is our best bet for ’08 . . . but, it may be a good thing that the buzz isn’t on him yet. To have buzz two years before the election is to peak too early.

  • The correct answer is: “Who cares? The decision to invade was the President’s. While Congress gave him authority, he was not forced to exercize that authority. We aren’t debating about going in anymore. Might as well be concerned about votes for the Spanish American War. Ask me how I’m going to be CinC on 1/20/09.”

    Plain stupid to ask about the vote when it’s now irrelevant.

  • NMDem and Zeitgeist – thanks for the info on Richardson. I do seem to recall something about his past that was kind of kept quiet because he kind of drifted away….Let’s keep the buzz down…

  • There really is no good solution to the mess Bush has created. Before Democrats get themselves bogged down in speculative plans and timetables, they need to make that point, over and over again.

    The rush of Democrats to propose a solution makes it way too easy for the Republicans. Let’s hear a lot more about just how much Iraq has cost, and how little it has helped.

  • Shall we stay or shall we go is the tip of the iceberg. What about the small city we’re building, (Greenzoneville), and calling it our embassy? What about the substantial bases we’ve laid down? Iraq ain’t Cuba and they aren’t going to want us maintaining “Guantanamo Bays” around the country where we can hang out and watch and meddle and maintain secret prisons. Jeez, who used to do that in Iraq?

    The question of when we leave doesn’t seem to begin to address what’s really going on over there. What are we going to leave behind that still says U.S. Gov’t on it and is that going to be any more acceptable to the pissed off fomenter’s of trouble than what’s going on now? I’ll bet the Iraqi version of us leaving and the Gringo version of us leaving aren’t all that close. Dems can spin their past all they want but what are their substancial answers to the real situation in Iraq right now? Trying to win the Vague, Symbolic Timetable Contest isn’t going to wash our hands of this extraordinary screwup.

  • Burro is right. I can’t see from any of the discussion in Washington that anyone is out of the box or out of the group thinking on Iraq. There is a mind set will affect our destiny for many years to come. This seems to be the default position with no real effort to break out by anyone. We just can’t get off this deadly path where no matter which branch we take, we’re screwed. But it really does not help that we have George Armstrong Custer Bring it On Bush as our leader. Effectively, he has been impeached, but his thinking survives the day.

  • First off, all journalists or critical bloggers must be rock solid in their description of the resolution to authorize force; it was not ‘voting for the war’ nor was a nay vote a ‘vote against the war’. Journalists have to resist the intellectual shorthand for which we’ve grown accustomed, especially when it so easily props up the false talking points of the Bush team. Even the Bush folks don’t say that anyone ‘voted for the war’ but they do say that a vote for the resolution supported the war – that’s splitting hairs, of course, but it is still sleight of hand.

    Secondly, none of these folks who voted for the authorization knew what they were doing – ie granting GWB unlimited power to initiate war on his own whim. The only one who got it right and for the right reason was Bob Byrd. Critical thinking individuals should read his statement in which he derided Congress’ abdication of their duty to declare war and to instead pre-approve a Presidential end run around that Constitutional restriction of power.

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