Dems to ‘limit the amount of daylight’ on national security issues?

September 26, 2006

I guess a filibuster is out of the question.

[N]ow that the Republicans have worked out a deal on detainees, Democrats are not planning any organized effort to filibuster the deal in the Senate, even though they may not agree with some of the specifics in the legislation.

With just a few days left before the election recess, Democratic aides say they are not going to give Republicans an opportunity to paint them into a corner.

“We’re going to do what we can to limit the amount of daylight between us and them on national security issues in order to neutralize this as a political issue,” a senior Democratic aide said.

Now, this quote is from an anonymous Dems and it’s a little vague. I assume, for example, that “national security issues” does not include the war in Iraq — on which Dems want all kinds of “daylight” between us and them. Rather, I suspect this is more about torture, habeas, tribunals, and illegal surveillance, on which some of us hoped for a fight, which apparently will not come to fruition.

Nevertheless, in a campaign context, if any serious person believes Dems can “neutralize” national security by going along with the GOP agenda, they just haven’t been paying attention. I can only hope that this anonymous “daylight” quote comes from a less-than-reliable Democratic source, and that he or she is mischaracterizing the caucus’ position. I’m afraid, however, that I know better.

I *hope* this is a trial balloon to gauge support/opposition. Because otherwise, the Senate Dems are a bunch of gutless fucking pussies.

Y’all are welcome to prove me wrong at any time.

ANY FUCKING TIME.

  • What’s the use? Democratic senators actually believe their continued employment is more crucial to the fate of the Republic than the Constitution and/or human decency. They’re a waste of good spittle.

  • I guess after Bill Clinton delivered a smackdown on Fox News Sunday, the Democrats have now run out of spine.

  • This is the defining moment. I’ve never believed in the hyperbole of the fate of the Nation being at stake. But this is it.

  • For everything the GOP is wrong about, one thing they are completely right about is in calling the Democrats weak-willed pansy-asses. If they are too damn scared to stand up to tyranny and stand up for our values, they are definitely exactly that. Fuck them. Let’s start our own party.

    With blackjack, and hookers.

  • I have compiled a bunch of contact information and references on this topic. Get the phone numbers and call call call your reps and the Democratic leadership and tell them this kind of B.S. is unacceptable!

    I’m sensitive to the need to not be absolutists on every topic, letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, politics as the art of the possible, and all that other stuff. But if the Democrats can’t make a stand on torture for God’s sake, then they’re of no f***ing use to me…

  • Senate Dems are a bunch of gutless fucking pussies.

    That’s a big DITTO. They get no money or even support from me until they EARN it, and that doesn’t mean just sitting on their flabby, fat asses.

  • I think it’s a little more complicated than that.

    http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/15606643.htm

    With less than a week before Congress begins its fall recess, Sen. Arlen Specter said he doesn’t expect much action on the terrorism interrogation bill that’s attracted so much attention.

    Or on the bill regarding President Bush’s secret surveillance program.

    Or on comprehensive immigration reform.

    Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican and the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, sees a heavy congressional agenda but little hope for completing it this week as Republicans head home to concentrate on retaining control of the Senate and the House of Representatives in the November 7 elections.

    The strategy seems to be to run the clock out. And I’m guessing that the Dems are getting some help from Republicans who really, really, REALLY don’t want to go down in history as the first to vote in favor of torture.

    While I would love to see some full-throated, high-minded defense of American values, playing offense on Iraq is probably more effective electorally than playing defense on terror. Run out the clock, leave the bills to a lame-duck session, blame Republicans for the delay, and rile up the Dem base at home with anti-torture speeches.

  • Everyone please write or call their Representative and/or Senator with a letter/email like this:

    Dear Senator Boxer,

    Please see:

    U.S. Constitution, Article One, Section Nine, Para. Two:

    “The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.”

    We are not in rebellion and are not being invaded.

    Senator Specter is right. This is blatently unconstitutional and it would be a violation of every Senator’s and Congressman’s Oath of Office to fail to preserve, uphold, and defend the U.S. Constitution.

    No Senator needs more than this to put a permenent hold on any legislation attempting to bypass this part of our Constitution.

    For king george to attempt overriding this provision is a violation of his oath of office and his constitutional obligations.

    THIS MUST NOT BE ALLOWED AT ANY/ALL COSTS.

    Thank you for your exemplary service for your country and constituents.

    Let’s see: Suspend habeas corpus for enemy combatants. Then suspend it for drug dealers, pornographers, child molesters, rapists, political demonstrators, members of a political opposition parties, drunk drivers, reckless drivers, illegal parking violators, jaywalkers, tardy students, well, I guess you see where this is going – right down that “ole slippery slope” to a totally dictatorial Empire where the King Decider decides who may remain free, or alive, and who may not. And the military already has “extremely painful, but (maybe) non-lethal weapons” ready to use for crowd control of AMERICAN CITIZENS.

    Just how much more power do the despots running the country, boy king george and his republican guard, want?

    Why not just summary execution powers to get rid of for anyone the king declares to be dangerous to him or his administration? Then we could rid ourselves of two branches of government at the same time, as surely congressional opposers and judicial opposers would be declared dangerous to the king’s rule AND SHOT.

    Can’t happen in America? Where have you been for the last six years as our rights go down the toilet?

  • So…that’s it then. It was a hell of a lot easier than I thought it would be.

    There will be nothing to stop the department of homeland security from knocking on peoples doors in the middle of the night and whisking them off to who knows where for who knows what or why. Anyone that criticizes the goverment, speaks out against injustices or environmental issues, can be named a supporter of the enemy and dissapeared. The Argentinization of the US is nearly complete. All that is needed is the coming dpression and devaluation of the dollar and it is done.

    The USA…RIP…

  • If the Dems aren’t going to stand up against torture and the gutting of the Constitution, remind me again why I should vote for them? So they can have nicer offices in the Reyburn building? So they can get more face time on TV?

    Fuck those worthless pieces of slime.

  • JC, I appreciate that there may be things going on beneath the surface.

    On the other hand, I think it’s a pretty fucked-up surface if it involves making it look like one party wants to legalize torture, and the other party doesn’t have a fucking problem with it – or, if it does have a problem with it, doesn’t have the fucking guts to say so.

    Any Republicans – who you think exist – who don’t want to vote for torture, but are willing to help Bush flirt with the idea of legalizing it, rather than oppose him directly (because what, they’re afraid they’ll help Democrats win? Jeez, why do so many people think Democrats will win when they’re basically throwing the fucking game on torture?), should come out and vote for it, though counting on the spirit and spine of non-insane Republicans is like counting on Santa Claus bringing you a new bicycle when you’re an orphan.

    And fuck it, why the hell can’t we play OFFENSE on terror/torture? Didn’t anyone learn ANYTHING from Clinton’s FNC interview? I *HATE* watching Senate Democrats pull their punches preemptively, for fear of waking the great sleeping monster of Bush’s national-security-demagoguery, because that motherfucker ain’t sleeping – it NEVER sleeps, and only a fool would think it will sleep until November. However, we’ve got plenty of fools in the party and the electorate, so maybe I should just grumble into my coffee instead.

  • Are they afraid that if they stand up for civil rights, they couldn’t explain themselves on the campaign trail? Sullivan has written up this talking point better than anyone (http://time.blogs.com/daily_dish/2006/09/legalizing_tyra.html):

    “If the U.S. government decides, for reasons of its own, that you are an “illegal enemy combatant,” i.e. that you are someone who ‘has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States,’ they can detain you without charges indefinitely, granting you no legal recourse except to a military tribunal, and, under the proposed bill, “disappear” and torture you. This is not just restricted to aliens or foreigners, but applies to U.S. citizens as well. It can happen anywhere in the U.S. at any time. We are all at potential risk.

    Whatever else this is, it is not a constitutional democracy. It is a thinly-veiled military dictatorship, subject to only one control: the will of the Great Decider. And the war that justifies this astonishing attack on American liberty is permanent, without end.”

    Any questions?

  • Red herring, perchance? Or maybe they can effectively keep these things from coming to the floor for any kind of vote in the next few days before recess? That would also allow them to limit the amount of daylight between them and the republicans. Although I would rather they just came out and slammed this crap for what it is.

  • If Democrats weren’t irrelevant before, they certainly are now. If they go along with this legislation, they are as morally bankrupt as their GOP counterparts. They have demonstrated they will do anything and say anything to save their jobs, even though they will have demonstrated they are unfit for office.

    If this is true, then Senate Democrats ought to be fucking ashamed.

  • Keith Olberman was talking about something else last night, but this is pretty relevant to this topic, too:

    To enforce the lies of the present, it is necessary to erase the truths of the past.

    That was one of the great mechanical realities Eric Blair —— writing as George Orwell ——gave us in the novel “1984.”

    The great philosophical reality he gave us, Mr. Bush, may sound as familiar to you, as it has lately begun to sound familiar to me.

    “The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power……

    “Power is not a means; it is an end.

    “One does not establish a dictatorship to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

    “The object of persecution, is persecution. The object of torture, is torture. The object of power…… is power.”

  • The Dems have only two options: fight this like hell or completely boycott the vote! No Dem should ever be on record as being for this. Don’t go with the flow so the right wingers won’t label you soft on terror. They will do the same thing when Congressional control shifts back to the Dems and this monstrosity will need to be overturned.

    BC brought up an important point: it doesn’t matter what nation you’re from, as long as you are an enemy combatant you can vanish and be tortured until they feel like letting you go. Americans included!

  • There are two possibilities here:

    1) The Democrats figure this isn’t a necessary fight, because the Do-Nothing Congress won’t get its act together in time to hold a vote anyway. If that’s the case, I don’t have an enormous problem with their tactic–because it’s just a tactic, and the bottom line is that we won’t see legislation empowering George Bush to routinize torture.

    2) They really are spineless fucking pussies without values, souls or the barest shred of human decency.

    Last week I wrote both my Senators (Schumer and Clinton), more or less begging them not to let this obscene and profoundly un-American policy become law. That’s the bottom line. If they can run out the clock, fine.

    But if it does come to a vote and they lie down–and I define that as “failing to stop it”–may God have mercy on their souls, and on our country, because we will be inviting the whirlwind.

  • When we condemn the Dems for not resisting Bush enough, let’s not forget that the other party is actively enabling him. Not much of a moral distinction but it’s all we got.

  • There are two possibilities here:

    1) The Democrats figure this isn’t a necessary fight, because the Do-Nothing Congress won’t get its act together in time to hold a vote anyway.
    2) They really are spineless fucking pussies without values, souls or the barest shred of human decency.
    dajafi

    There’s a third: that they know these bills are flagrantly unconstitutional, will never survive court review, and that it’s more important to win back the Senate (and the House, but primarily the Senate). To go back to the Kerry metaphor, provide a lean target, and attack their weakness (Iraq).

    I agree that there’s a serious lack of fighting spirit in the Democratic Party today. There’s also a serious lack of talent for communicating on an emotional level. The Party needs to push its “leaders” aside – but first, win the midterms and stop this shit.

  • I’m all for a violenbt stream of profanity and I know how these guys can fire up the few of us who actually care but did teh Carpetbagger all of a sudden move from NBC to HBO? Let’s try to keep it together.

    I’m liking JC’s comment #8. This may never surface as an issue anyway.

    If it does pass it should pass on 100% partisan lines. If no Dems vote for it they can then go back and campaign on the fact tha tthe GOP is so obsessed and wrong headded about terrorism that they are willing to ignore the Constiution. Torture does not work and DEMS refused to approve a bill that endangers our soldiers.

    The are OK not fillibustering the bill but they had better not vote for it!

  • Wow … that quote from Sullivan (quoted by BC in #14) is just … well … damn.

    I’ll have to echo the sentiments of pretty much everyone on this thread — if the Dems just lie down and let this abortion of a bill pass, I will seriously, legitimately, and without question find a way to move the heck out of this country. Granted, I may be picked up as an “enemy combatant” before then (since we’ve all heard Cheney, et al suggest that those who oppose them are helping the enemy).

    But I REFUSE to have my son grow up in a country where one party rules, where torture is okay, and where we are in a war without end. The little guy deserves better than that.

  • There’s a third: that they know these bills are flagrantly unconstitutional, will never survive court review, and that it’s more important to win back the Senate (and the House, but primarily the Senate). To go back to the Kerry metaphor, provide a lean target, and attack their weakness (Iraq).

    It won’t get that far. Once the bill passes, any judge who rules can be disappeared for supporting the terrorists. That’s not to say the Republicans really have the balls to do it, but damn it there’s nothing to stop them either. And, as far as the rubes are concerned, it’d all be legal (and perfectly legitimate for the US government to do this).

    If it does pass it should pass on 100% partisan lines.

    If this bill passes, we are doomed.

    This bill is so dangerous that it should never even get to a vote. Make the damn GOP to take power by force if it wants it so badly, but damn it don’t give them a legal way to do it.

    The Democrats are fucking pussies. If they won’t stand against this, then they will stand against anything. We fucking deserve a dictatorship.

  • “There’s a third: that they know these bills are flagrantly unconstitutional, will never survive court review, and that it’s more important to win back the Senate (and the House, but primarily the Senate).”

    I don’t know if I hope this is their calculation. I think these bills are flagrantly unconstitutional. I don’t think they’d ever survive court review in a *NORMAL* American judicial system, but one watched over by a Scalia/Thomas/Alito/Roberts wing that only needs to sway Kennedy periodically or wait for Ann Coulter to rat-poison Stevens or for Souter’s next jog to be interrupted by goons with guns, I think it’s fucking ridiculous to trust the courts to do the tough part of their own job, defending the goddamned Constitution. And I disagree violently when I read that people think the way to win back the Senate is to let Bush get his way, and that declining to fight will persuade people that we will, well, fight. Jon Tester just told a Montana debate audience that he wants to REPEAL the Patriot Act. Let’s have more of that, and less “Oh, we’re afraid Republicans will call us names” pusillanimity. Some Republican calls you names? Call them names: Coward. Fool. Liar. Traitor. Bush-lover. Because you’ve got truth and justice on your side. Don’t go selling those, and the rest of us, short. (this isn’t directed at anyone here; it’s directed at the party apparatus that won’t take a fucking stand on torture)

    “I agree that there’s a serious lack of fighting spirit in the Democratic Party today. There’s also a serious lack of talent for communicating on an emotional level. The Party needs to push its “leaders” aside – but first, win the midterms and stop this shit.”

    That’s what I disagree about. I don’t think we can win the midterms – or any elections that matter – if we won’t stand up and fight this kind of bullshit. You don’t win so you can fight, you fight so you can win. Voters get this. We get this. Why the fuck don’t our leaders?

  • MNProgressive, I’d be more amenable to linguistic restraint if the Bush Administration wasn’t enticing Democrats to help enable it to. FUCKING. LEGALIZE. TORTURE.

    On the other hand, I *will* try to use fewer f-bombs when I discuss less important issues.

  • The are OK not fillibustering the bill but they had better not vote for it!

    Sorry, I don’t understand this. They have the tool to stop this trainwreck — the only effective tool as the minority party at their disposal — but they choose not to use it, and that’s OK? So if the bill passes along strict party lines (and really I expect Senators Lieberman, Salazar, Pryor, Landrieu, or Nelson to jump ship), then the Dems can walk away with clean consciences?

    So the U.S. adopts torture and abandons habeas corpus, and the Dems can cluck their tongues, beat their chests and say “Well, I voted against it!”?

    Setting partisanship aside for a quick second, how is that still acceptable?

  • brainiac, the reason Senate Democrats choose not to use the filibuster is *BECAUSE* it is a tool that would work.

    Yes, they are that stupid, gutless, and craven on this issue. They’re talking about doing NOTHING – even HELPING – while Bush gets his rubber-stamp Republican allies to legalize torture.

    I don’t know what the fuck they’re thinking either.

    It’s enough to make me wonder how they’d react if at the signing ceremony, Bush were to say, “Great, you’re now all enemy combatants!” and then have them arrested and disappeared.

    Of course, the way they’re acting on this, it’s like they’re preemptively disappearing to PROVE that they’re powerless.

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