Dewey defeats Truman Clinton defeats Obama in New Hampshire

Oh, now I remember. We’re supposed to wait until after voters express a preference to declare a winner of a contest.

I have to say, it’s awfully inconvenient this way. The narrative had been worked out; everyone was in agreement about what was going to happen; and all voters had to do was go along. But noooo; they had to go ahead and vote the way they wanted to — as if this were some kind of open, democratic process — without any consideration for how it might make the rest of us look and feel. Downright selfish, if you ask me.

Before getting into this in any real detail, let’s first note the results of New Hampshire’s Democratic primary, with nearly all the precincts reporting:

1. Clinton — 39.1%
2. Obama — 36.4%
3. Edwards — 16.9%
4. Richardson — 4.6%
5. Kucinich — 1.3%
6. Gravel — 0.1%

There’s no shortage of angles to all of this, of course, and I’ll have more detailed analysis throughout the day, but first, let’s briefly go one at a time, taking a look at Spin vs. Reality.

Hillary Clinton — What Clinton fans are saying: Say hello to the new “comeback kid.” What Clinton critics are saying: If she hadn’t cried the other day, none of this would have happened.

Who’s right? Well, it’s probably too soon to tell. The New Hampshire victory was incredibly impressive, and arguably makes her the co-frontrunner — if there is such a thing — for the nomination going forward. Will she get a post-N.H. bump in the polls? Probably, but we don’t yet know how big and whether it will help in Nevada and South Carolina. As for why Clinton won, we’ll tackle this soon, in another post.

Barack Obama — What Obama fans are saying: One out of two isn’t bad, and New Hampshire has always been Clinton’s strongest state. What Obama critics are saying: Weren’t you guys up by double digits on Monday?

Who’s right? Probably both. A close, second-place finish is disappointing for the Obama camp, but the senator remains in pretty good shape, and is now in a better position to characterize this as a two-person race.

John Edwards — What Edwards fans are saying: We did better than the fourth-place finish four years ago. What Edwards critics are saying: It’s a two-person race, and Edwards isn’t one of the two.

Who’s right? Probably the critics. An Obama win would have been far better for Edwards, and a Clinton upset, coupled with a lackluster, third-place finish, puts Edwards in a pretty tough spot.

Bill Richardson — What Richardson fans are saying: We gained a slightly higher percentage than we got in Iowa. What Richardson critics are saying: Time to gracefully step aside, Bill.

Who’s right? Critics are. If there’s a scenario by which Richardson makes a comeback, I don’t see it. As recently as Monday, Richardson was telling reporters he was looking to finish in the top three. He didn’t even come close.

Dennis Kucinich — What Kucinich fans are saying: We don’t care about election results; we’re going to keep fighting. What Kucinich critics are saying: Don’t you have a primary fight in your Ohio House district to worry about?

Who’s right? Probably both.

Mike Gravel — What Gravel fans are saying: We would have done a lot better, but our guy had the flu this week. What Gravel critics are saying: Gravel’s still running?

Who’s right? Critics are. Gravel made a splash in the early debates, but now that he’s not getting invitations to the events anymore, it’s hard to see what Gravel really hopes to accomplish.

Plenty more to come. Stay tuned.

The Gravel camp is blaming the flu?
Oh, that’s not right.

Gravel’s still in it so people will ask why he’s still in it.
He can say “National Initiative! Make every American a legislator!”

Can everyone please kindly look it up, so you can say, “Okay, Mike. Thanks.” So the poor man can get on with his life?

National Initiative!

  • I think that there are a lot more undecideds out there that wait until the moment they step in the voting booth to decide who they are going to vote for. That is why the polls can be so out of step with the results. I know that I’ve be going back and forth between Obama and Edwards (and Dodd until he stepped out of the race) for months and I’ll probably continue to remain undecided between the two up until the Texas primary in March.

  • Last night I lost whatever remaining respect I had for Bill Clinton.

    Want to know what a fairy tale is Bill?

    That your wife is a whirlwind in the Senate akin to LBJ.
    Bosh.
    In 8 years and has got a handful a meaningless bills to show for it.

    That your wife understands and has experience in foreign policy?
    Pish.
    She enabled Bush in Iraq and then Iran. Judgement? Wisdom? Fuhgeddaboutdit.

    That your wife has a chance of winning the general election?
    Cough. Phlegm. Cough.
    You big dumb unlovable dog! She is hated even more universally than you!
    I’ve already made up my mind to vote straight republican if the Dems are dumb enough to choose her. She can’t win and she won’t win. And I promise my pen and money and my passion to support whatever candidate opposes her.

    Bill, you are no authority on fairy tales.
    I suggest you stick to sexual fantasies instead.
    You are just grand at those…

    (This message paid for by the committee to keep the big, dirty, fornicating, cigar-poking dog out of the Oval Office.)

  • The New Hampshire results–especially their unpredictability–emphasize an important point about the Democratic nomination race: many Democratic voters would be happy with ANY of the frontrunners as the eventual candidate. That may make it harder to decide which one to vote for until the last minute, and thus tends to make polls more unreliable. But it also bodes well for the general election.

    I also feel that Obama deserves considerable credit for finessing the negative campaigning issue by making negative attacks backfire so consistently that all three major campaigns have been remarkably gentle, in contrast to usual MO and in light of the stakes. That’s not to say that there hasn’t been some sniping and some underhanded moves, but they pale in the face of modern Rovianism…and that leaves the candidates stronger going into the general.

    In contrast, the Republican primary electorate is driven much more by reciprocal negatives, it seems: evangelical voters don’t like Romney, corporate types don’t like Huckabee, and libertarian leaners loathe Guiliani. We can only hope that the candidates continue to lacerate one another in ever more bitter ways as the contest continues.

  • Obama did significantly better in NH than he was predicted to do before the Iowa caucuses and has to be pleased with that. What I can’t understand are the independents I read about (and saw interviewed on the TeeVee) who, up until the last minute, couldn’t decide between McCain and Obama. WTF is up with that?

  • An Obama win would have been far better for Edwards

    I don’t really see this. At least, not if it had been the huge win that the polls predicted. That would have made the fat lady redundant, I think.

    Now Edwards still has a (very) slim chance. After all, last night’s result was pretty unexpected. And if there’s some external circumstance that kicks in, who knows?

  • Didn’t that outlier poll from a small NH college predict this? They’re looking awfully smart today.

    Seriously, the polls are totally bogus. Let’s stop paying any attention to them. For one thing, they can’t find people who don’t have landline telephones. For another thing, I (and many others) don’t participate in telephone polls because so many polls are sales pitches or push-polls in disguise, so participants are self-selected. Today’s polls are about as scientific as internet polls, i.e. not very.

    And there are lots of undecided voters. (I’m one of them, although I have a strong lean towards Edwards.) So voter choices may shift abruptly. I heard several anecdotes yesterday about people who made up their minds literally with the pencil in their hands.

  • I’ve got this itch to go back to Friday’s comments and quote out all the variations of “Stick a fork in her, she’s done.”

    Maybe everybody should take a deep breath and just focus on the good news about this result.

    Which is, for the next month, the MSM will still be focused on the presidential primaries and not Lindsay Lohan.

    Not to mention now a lot of the rest of the country will feel like they get to play a part in this nominating process. That should spur turnout, which should have a positive impact on November.

    So today is a good day.

  • beep52 –

    What I can’t understand are the independents I read about (and saw interviewed on the TeeVee) who, up until the last minute, couldn’t decide between McCain and Obama. WTF is up with that?

    “Independents” who don’t like voting for Democrats but also don’t like any of the chimps flinging steaming monkey poo over on the Republican side this year. McCain is the least stupid of the viable choices over on the Republican side. So if you find yourself in that position of not wanting to vote for a Democrat but not wanting to vote for a nutjob, McCain is about all you’ve got. (And why I think, despite his own veering into looney-land lately, McCain is the candidate that will be hardest to beat come November – unless he does something dumb like pick Huckabee as his running mate…)

    (I actually thought some of those folks would break for Ron Paul and lodge protest votes for him. Maybe New Hampshirites aren’t as “libertarian” as I’ve always thought and really are more “corporate conservative” than libertarian.)

  • The Suffolk University polling team was right, the Zogbies and the ARGs were all wrong, how about that!!!

  • I think Josh Marshall had it right last night when he said this doesn’t prove that the polls were/are useless. It just shows that in such a compressed schedule, and with so many undecided voters, both Democratic and Independent, there’s just a hell of a lot of volatility in the race. Obama got a bump from Iowa, but it was probably amplified beyond what it was reasonable to believe (not to mention that the polls didn’t seem to include independents).

    Hillary had a blitz over the last couple of days, where she seemed more human to a lot of people, and where her husband, who’s still quite popular, gave some huge last-minute support (much as I don’t like him slagging another Democrat so hard).

    I think that if we’re being honest with ourselves, there was a real Iowa bounce for Obama, but that it wasn’t nearly as big as the polls between the contests indicated. That bounce merely put him within 2 or 3 points in a contest where a week or two ago he was running double digits down. Just as Iowa didn’t knock Clinton out of the race, I wouldn’t be too hasty to say that the New Hampshire result knocks out Obama.

  • What happened is people are realizing the reasons why she is a better candidate than Barack. So it is a decisive win + marks a trend.

    The fact that it was New Hampshire just makes the initial point spread larger and more noticeably in favor of Clinton.

  • Didn’t that outlier poll from a small NH college predict this?

    By yesterday morning, even Suffolk Univ. showed Obama winning. It was a clean sweep.

  • I can’t believe my lying eyes. I saw huge crowds at Dem events and Republican candidates hanging out on street corners hoping someone would come along and say, “well, hello there”. Yet Republicans only had 10% fewer voters? I heard 60% of Independents voted in the Dem primary. And what, a large number of them voted for Clinton or Dems voted 4 to 1 for her? Clinton sobs, it’s so personal, it’s all about her, and throngs of women said, “you know, she’s right?”

  • Bradley effect — voters tell pollster they’re voting black, then vote white in the booth … impossible to do in ‘open’ Iowa caucus).

    Hillary effect — voters afraid of telling pollster they’re voting for Hillary, then vote Hillary in the booth).

    Independents effect — voters figure, based on media, that Obama’s got it made, decide instead of wasting their vote on the Democrats to engineer a McCain win in the GOP).

    Undecided effect — angry at the pollsters, robocalls, commercial intrusions on TeeVee, voters wait until they’re actually voting to make up their minds.

    Truman effect — pollsters nearly all predict an Obama win, but the actual vote falls just over the other side; close but no cigar.

    All of the above, including that remote possibility that NH people simply like Hillary a little more than Obama.

    At least last night taught us that we’re still all-too-human (good) and that the pundits don’t know shit and are increasingly irrelevant (good). If last night deflated our messianic euphoria, maybe we’ll continue to keep our eyes open, paying particular attention to the ever-present possibility of GOP election tricks and fraud.

    Meantime, recall the African proverb: “When you pray–move your feet.” While I’m waxing quotational, here’s another one from Margaret Mead: “Never believe that a few caring people can’t change the world. For, indeed, that’s all who ever have.”

  • Couldn’t resist, this is from ONE thread:

    On January 4th, 2008 at 1:48 pm, RacerX said: “She’s done.”

    On January 4th, 2008 at 2:18 pm, OkieFromMuskogee said: “… you might as well stick a fork in her – she’s done.”

    On January 4th, 2008 at 9:18 pm, Rob-is-Right!! said: “CLINTONS ARE LOSERS!! CLINTONS ARE LOSERS!! CLINTONS ARE LOSERS!!

    Get the message? Stick a fork in her…..she’s DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!”

    As for Suffolk, they had it right up to the last moment, when they seemed to switch a couple of poll results around to give Obama a one point edge. I think they probably second guessed themselves and are now banging their heads on the table saying “why, why”. Of course, they also got the Republican’ts totally wrong, so…

  • What happened? The media mistook a transient effect (the huge Obama “bounce”) for actual reality, and a bunch of people were dumb enough to fall for it. Calling this a “comeback” for Clinton really irks me: It’s not a comeback to win a state you’ve consistently polled at +20 in for over a year, especially when you win it by a thin handful of points. The transient effect in the last week is irrelevant; any good scientist knows you look at the trend data. In that, she had held the state for a very long time and then came remarkably close to losing it .

    Somehow, that’s a “comeback”.

  • “What I can’t understand are the independents I read about (and saw interviewed on the TeeVee) who, up until the last minute, couldn’t decide between McCain and Obama. WTF is up with that?”

    Independents who couldn’t decide between Obama and McCain wanted to place their vote where it would do the most “good.” That is, if it’s a tight race between Obama and Clinton, they’ll vote for Obama because they like him better than her. If it’s a tight race between McCain and Romney, they’ll vote for McCain because they like John better than Mitt.

    I think 2 things happened. Obama looked like such a blow-out that independents didn’t think he needed their help and voted for McCain. And democrats, especially women, were so thoroughly disgusted by the sexist misogynistic coverage bordering on glee at her projected defeat that they cast a protest vote for Hillary, even if they preferred Obama. Clinton tearing up certainly helped, by humanizing her.

    One thing is clear – there was no “Wilder-Bradley effect” – people didn’t lie about planning to vote for a Black man because they were ashamed of being racist. Matt Yglecias has a nice chart up showing that Obama got just about exactly as many votes as were projected for him. It was Clinton who got way more than were projected for her.

  • “… she had held the state for a very long time and then came remarkably close to losing it. Somehow, that’s a ‘comeback’.” – Petesmom (#19)

    Exactly.

  • “… she had held the state for a very long time and then came remarkably close to losing it. Somehow, that’s a ‘comeback’.” – Bernard Gilroy (#18)

    Exactly.

  • I think the ‘Stick a fork in her’ crowd was relaying more hope then actual opinion.

    CB, do you thinks it such a good idea to comment on what candidates should do considering you are 0-2 on the primaries, aka kristol syndrom. Edwards might be against the ropes, but he isn’t out and I think he is going to take SC. Yes he is my boy, so my opinion might be a bit slanted.

    Going forward it will be interesting to see who Democrats like, so far in Iowa and New Hampshire, we have seen who Independents favor.

    Side note, this letting Independents vote in a primary/caucus is BS. One of the benefits of selecting a party is getting to determine who your party will nominate. Why register D if they let I’s in the door ?? Why not register I and ‘vote’ in both D and R primaries if your state allows ??

  • I live in Massachusetts, and we have a horrible governor who went up to New Hampshire to campaign for Barack–that could have alienated some New Hampshire residents, since they live close enough to Massachusetts to be aware of how awful this governor is.

    Another thought: I have heard some people say that the Republicans feel that they can beat Hillary in November, but not Barack. I have heard that some people took Democratic ballots with precisely that intention in mind–of shutting out Barack.

    And then there is the first thing that came to mind–who did she buy?

  • Lance @ #17:

    You’ve taken me more than a little out of context. The complete sentence that I wrote was:

    “If Hillary goes negative on Obama between now and Tuesday, it will backfire and you might as well stick a fork in her – she’s done.”

    I think Hillary’s “false hope” remark didn’t do her any good, but that was about as negative as she got. So I stand by my original statement.

  • Okie re #24.

    Fair enough. Though you’d think from Obama’s rhetoric that the attacks have been relentless (and ineffectual).

  • Lance:

    I agree. Obama’s rhetoric reminded me of a basketball player on defense, faking the taking of a charge and falling down when barely brushed. Or a punter who falls down untouched when a defender flies by him.

    In this case, the refs (the voters) weren’t fooled.

  • But Romney was the most outrageous at this tactic. He called every disagreement by his opponents a “personal attack.”

  • Re 26 and 27.

    Romney is a rich Corporate Executive. They don’t know how to take criticism.

    I was listening to Obama last night with half an ear (unfair, I know) but it seemed he was implying that New Hampshire had tried to stand in the way of his ‘historic’ opportunity to change America and put a Black man in the White House. It rang a little false.

  • .
    A Hello to All:

    In post #9 up thread Lance said:

    Maybe everybody should take a deep breath and just focus on the good news about this result. Which is, for the next month, the MSM will still be focused on the presidential primaries and not Lindsay Lohan. Not to mention now a lot of the rest of the country will feel like they get to play a part in this nominating process. That should spur turnout, which should have a positive impact on November.

    That’s very close to what was discussed here at the Carpetbagger in the last few comments in yesterday’s “Open Thread” at Posts 113 through 119.

    In closing: For your general information I do not participate in circular firing squads.

    ~OGD~
    .

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