Did Romney’s speech work?

When Mitt Romney delivered his address yesterday on his perspective on religion in America, he had a fairly specific audience in mind. There’s a significant percentage of the Republican Party that opposes church-state separation, and is inherently skeptical towards Mormons, and Romney had the daunting task of trying to convince them that a) he’s with them on the issues; and b) those issues matter more than his faith tradition.

So, did it work? Early indications aren’t encouraging for Team Romney.

Most conservative Christian political activists and pastors who studied Mitt Romney’s speech on Thursday addressing his Mormon faith agree it was something he had to do.

But few said it was strong enough to change the minds of evangelicals – a powerful force in Republican politics.

“It was a wise move on his part,” said Chuck Hurley, a pro-family Christian activist and former Iowa legislator. “He is a gifted speaker and I would guess he will have mollified some people’s concerns. But the more people investigate the beginnings of the Mormon church, the more uneasy they will be, and there’s nothing he can do about that.”

I disagree with the sentiment and prejudicial motivation, but this man’s observation underscores exactly why Romney’s speech probably won’t succeed as a political ploy — it didn’t come close to addressing why anti-Mormon voters question Romney’s candidacy.

Collin Hansen, editor-at-large at the evangelical monthly Christianity Today, explained, “I’m not sure it’s going to work for evangelical voters. Pure and simple, there are very dramatic differences [between the Mormon faith and other Christian traditions]. People wonder, does he really believe that — and if so, can I really trust him?”

Most of the media analysis I’ve seen points to Romney’s assurances that his church won’t have undue influence in matters of government if he’s elected president. But that answers a question that hasn’t been asked. It’s painful to recognize, but Romney’s evangelical critics don’t like Mormons. It’s sad and offensive, but their bigotry isn’t based on reason, and it won’t be assuaged by Romney’s promises.

Meanwhile, Romney also went out of his way to offer non-believers in the U.S. a slap in the face. Even Peggy Noonan, of all people, noticed.

There was one significant mistake in the speech. I do not know why Romney did not include nonbelievers in his moving portrait of the great American family. We were founded by believing Christians, but soon enough Jeremiah Johnson, and the old proud agnostic mountain men, and the village atheist, and the Brahmin doubter, were there, and they too are part of us, part of this wonderful thing we have. Why did Mr. Romney not do the obvious thing and include them? My guess: It would have been reported, and some idiots would have seen it and been offended that this Romney character likes to laud atheists. And he would have lost the idiot vote.

My feeling is we’ve bowed too far to the idiots.

Not Romney, who desperately wants to convince the idiots that he’s one of them.

Remember, even George W. Bush has been surprisingly tolerant of non-believers. His father was pathetic on the issue — H.W. Bush once publicly declared that atheists are not patriotic and should not be regarded as “citizens” — but the current president, in one of the few nice things I can say about him, has actually been quite charitable towards those who choose no spiritual path.

Which makes Romney’s remarks all the more striking — when it comes to religious belief, Romney wants to stand to Bush’s right. Eric Kleefeld asked a campaign spokesperson if Romney “sees any positive role in America for atheists and other non-believers,” and the campaign has thus far refused to say either way.

In one speech, Romney has managed to disappoint evangelicals and offend non-believers simultaneously. That’s a rare feat.

Peggy Noonan: “we’ve bowed too far to the idiots”

Irony. Meter. Pegged.

  • The thing about Romney’s speech is that is was too safe. He did not, as Kennedy did, go out on a limb and say who he was and what he stood for. Instead Romney wanted to be all things to all people and reinforce the tired conceits that pass as talk of religion these days. He was only proud enough of his religion to mention it once by name and tried to use as many vanilla-flavored, supposedly inoffensive bromides as possible.

    In a nutshell it’s obvious what Romney wanted to do: he was telling evangelicals to not hate him, instead hate all the non-religious people. He’s just pointing the finger at someone else to hate. What a sissy.

  • Ah the coveted “idiot vote bank”… sit back and watch the mormon, the adulterer and the rapist-rescuer fight over them.

  • It’s easy to be opposed to the Mormon Church, based on facts.

    JFK could legitimately say that the Pope, the head of his church, would not be telling him what to do and if he did, Kennedy would not be religiously obligated to follow such direction. This is not the case for Mormons. A Mormon is obligated to follow the direction of The Prophet (aka the President of the Mormon Church), on pain of excommunication, which means being shunned by all his fellow Mormons. This happens frequently, and its result is damaging enough to the person so excommunicated that it is a credible threat.

    In other words, JFK could say believably he could act independently of his church. No Mormon can say that, and that is why no Mormon can be allowed to be President, since doing so really would be putting the Mormon Prophet in charge of the country. No Mormon believes in the separation of church and state. Utah is a theocracy, whether so formarlly designated or not.

    Basically, Romney told the truth when he said his religious values would inform his decisions. He just didn’t say how much – he couldn’t.

    One does not need to be a “religious bigot” to oppose this, merely a believer in a secular constitutional republic.

  • It would have been reported, and some idiots would have seen it and been offended

    And those idiots would have been…the entire republican noise machine? Maybe Peggy herself

  • “H.W. Bush once publicly declared that atheists are not patriotic and should not be regarded as “citizens” — ”

    I clicked on the link but it doesn’t explain the context of the comment.

    When did Bush 41 make that statement and what was the context?

  • Romney Throws Tainted Red Meat, Wingnuts Smell Mormon E Coli It And Walk Away. Details At Eleven.

    Mittens isn’t going to win over the Religious Right unless he first renounces Mormonism—and even then, it’ll be very dicey for him to pull it off. He might be able to take those “middle-of-the-roaders,” but the way the GOPers have polarized the nation over the course of the Bu$hylvanian Cultural Revolution, there just aren’t enough of those to win a national nomination—let alone a general election. That portion of the religious community who reside on the Left won’t back him, either; Mormonism is just too uberconservative for their tastes, and they’re fed up to their eyebrows with the GOPer/Theocrat hybrid howler monkey.

    Romney wins the nomination if—and only if—every other possibility for a GOP presidential candidate straps on an explosive vest and blows up a herd of Flying Sabertoothed Death Valley Mountain Prairie Dogs.

    Of which there is no such critter. Sorry, Mittens, you lose. You may go home now….

  • It was shrewd politically to pander to the vast majority who are religious, and to ignore the small minority of non believers, because including the latter would anger many of the former. Polls consistently show 25% of the American people believe that atheists are immoral. That’s a lot of hatred out there toward non believers.

    Whether his strategy worked or not, is another matter.

    I don’t know why everyone is calling up comparisons with Kennedy, and then missing the point. Kennedy wanted to assure Americans that he completely respected the secular nature of our Constitution. Romney just the opposite. He only wanted to assure all the religious folks that he was just as religious as they are, but wouldn’t favor any particular sect, and that Mormonism is, in fact, Jesus friendly.

  • Re: the Mormon church

    This is one of those issues I always feel like “we shouldn’t have to” discuss in our public/political discourse, but I guess the fact is with how uninformed everyone is about everything, and where our consciousness is politically right now, I guess we do. It’s a perfect example: the Mormons are a big force in out country (they basically own the state of Utah), they’ve been around for a long time, but you can’t expect Americans to know the basic facts about them (which it seems you should).

    Here’s what I know and my opinion:

    The Mormons and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the same thing. I was really impressed by commercials they put on TV to promote their religion when I was a little kid, when I knew nothing about Mormons, that seemed very compassionate and seemed to show an understanding of Christianity (those commercials used the name “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints” not “Mormon”- so maybe they were concerned about the name-recognition that goes with the word “Mormon”?). The branch of Christianity was founded by Americans in America in the 1800s, and originally included a belief in polygamy (specifically, they believed it was praiseworthy/holy for a man to be married to more than one wife, but women were not allowed to marry more than one man). They also believe in “new” books of the Bible one of the early founders of the Mormon church claims was given to him by an angel, and that include new characters not found in the original Bible, and stories about what went on in America before white people came here. Blacks used to not be allowed to join the Mormons. Later, they could join, but with less rights. Now I assume blacks are full and equal members of the church. Mormons now longer practice polygamy (when the U.S. federal government prosecuted them for it back in the late 1800s, Mormon leaders claimed that God told them they don’t have to practice polygamy anymore). But some splinter-groups still do, on an “underground” basis. The Mormons basically all live in Utah, as one of their early founders claimed God told him to bring all his followers out there.

    It’s not that I think we have to judge the man based on this religion. It’s not that I think we should condemn the religion or use it as a basis to rate political candidates from that religion. I think if Mormons practice the typical teachings of Christianity in a good and dedicated way, that’s great. The other beliefs, I find more specious. Although I believe in tolerance for religions, that does not mean that you should not have an opinion on religions or religious institutions, and I think we can put different religions on different “pedestals,” so to speak, for what kind of scrutiny they deserve- they’re not all the same. For instance, some religions, no matter what way you slice it, include a lot of time-tested thought on life and the human condition and how to treat others, and this body of knowledge they offer (and perhaps follow or promote to different degrees which we can either criticize or appreciate) is present regardless of whether the storied founders of the religion made claims about divine origins or revelations and regardless of whether those claims are true or not. Other religions were founded just a few years ago (for example, David Khoresh’s Branch Davidians) and we have no evidence or stories that the founders, who claimed a supernatural connection, actually were. And we have a lot of evidence those founders were bad people of bad character, more likely charlatans than sincere. Another great example is L. Ron Hubbard of the Scientologists, who, despite having many followers, was a shameless self-promoter throughout his life, who made up a lot of stuff and told a lot of tall-tales. If I own a store, I’m not going to kick someone out for being a Scientologist or for being a pagan, but L. Ron Hubbard claimed that humankind on Earth was establish by space aliens, and made a lot of other crazy claims, and coming from a person like him, it’s just a lot easier to think that all those claims he made about his religion were dishonest rather than sincere reports. So with some religions, but by no means most, I think you can look at the religion and say “what kind of guy could get wrapped up in this” and “is it a concern that somebody of this religion would be in public office.” With Mormonism, I think we’re at least heading in that direction, although I definitely would not say I could never trust a Mormon.

    Here’s the biggest concern for me: there are a lot of stories coming out of Mormonism recently that the leadership is really sexist and has kind of a fascist attitude. If someone considers that doctrine something he has to bow to, it’s well-worth knowing whether he’s a Mormon before you vote for him.

    If the question is “could you vote for a guy who could believe in this religion,” I think it’s possible someone could be a Mormon and not have it affect his presidency in any way different from a non-Mormon. But I think the question is at least most pertinent to be examined for the right-wingers when they vote, because a lot of them want government not to violate certain religious proscriptions they think are part of Christianity, and if they are going to vote for the guy, and if Mormonism is so different, they should know if they can expect that. For liberals, I think the question is more “is this guy part of chauvinism in the Mormon church, and if not, how does he feel about it.” And also for liberals, we always want to know that some guy who is a member of a church isn’t going to use public office to promote his church to the detriment of other churches.

    The bottom line, though, I feel, is candidates’ religions usually shouldn’t be pertinent to the political discussion and the choice, but, when there’s something about the religion or about the candidates observance of it that has implications for how the person would exercise his office that are legitimate, secular concerns, it makes perfect sense to examine it.

  • re:tom cleaver #4. i’m not catholic, so i’m only repeating what i have heard, but i thought that the catholic church has in the past threatened to excommunicate catholics who supported/voted for candidates who supported abortion rights, etc. am i wrong about this? and if this is the case, isn’t it the same as the mormon church?

  • just bill wrote:

    catholic church has in the past threatened to excommunicate catholics who supported/voted for candidates who supported abortion rights, etc. am i wrong about this?

    I’m Catholic, and I think I would have heard about this. I think a very few specific priests said Eucharist should not be given to such people- these are priests as low on the Catholic leadership hierarchy as men-of-the-cloth can get, expressing their own opinions without authorization or an order to make such claims. But “no Eucharist” is a pretty mild reporbation- you’re not even supposed to get Eucharist before going to confession if you missed church the previous weekend.

  • I seem to be at the tail end of everything today…

    I hope Romney’s speech is judged to be the Flop of all Flops, and that when the rest of them see how big a flop it was, they will STFU about religion once and for all. Then, they can lift the lid off their bigoted, xenophobic and elitist beliefs that they used to be able to attribute to “the word of God,” and without that crutch, we can see that they are just crazy mortals who need to be kept as far away from elected office as possible.

    But, with people like Chris Matthews giddy with man-crush hormones over Romney, I’m probably never going to get my wish.

  • steve @ #7:

    “Mittens isn’t going to win over the Religious Right unless he first renounces Mormonism—and even then, it’ll be very dicey for him to pull it off.”

    not really. he’s already renounced almost everything else he’s ever “believed” in!

  • If someone was, for example, religiously schooled among a tiny, distinct sect, and it was the principal belief of the sect that people should wage war against the United States, if a candidate was raised with that sect, it would be worth examining to find out whether he/she adhered to that belief. It shouldn’t exculpate it from examination that the topic has to do with religion.

    By default, though, Americans don’t examine and strive to live by every obscure punctillio of their religions, and most religions in the world are basically the same as far as they call upon people to be good, moral members of their society. So, ansebt some special details about the religion, it shouldn’t be the normal practice (and it makes sense that it isn’t) to examine every detail of every candidate’s religion’s doctrine, and ask the candidate whether he/she believes in that tenet, follows it, would make it part of policy she would try to mold the nation’s law to conform to, etc.

  • Wow, I’m simply amazed at the arrogance and bigotry of some of the comments.

    1. Quote: It was a wise move on his part,” said Chuck Hurley, a pro-family Christian activist and former Iowa legislator. “He is a gifted speaker and I would guess he will have mollified some people’s concerns. But the more people investigate the beginnings of the Mormon Church, the more uneasy they will be, and there’s nothing he can do about that.”

    I don’t know what evidence is used in this statement. The “Mormon” church is the fastest growing religion in the US… I guess there are a lot of people that investigate the beginnings of the Mormon Church, who don’t feel uneasy.

    2. Please tell me what religions are acceptable to evangelicals. Where are people who are not of an “approved” faith allowed to work and for what positions and industries? This will be good to know so evangelicals can put out the sign, ” All others need not apply”.

    3. Why do evangelicals think they are experts on the Mormon faith or any other religion for that matter? How did they become so all knowing, by what authority can they judge on behalf of God?

    4. What makes evangelicals superior in their judgment to find the best candidates or provide the best candidates? If I check the history of Presidents that have been evangelical two come up, Carter and Bush Jr. I believe these two Presidents have had the lowest approval ratings for their administrations. I don’t think a Mormon will be any worse. In reality I think there is a good chance the Mormon might be better.

    5. Here is a Presidential candidate who is extremely well educated, experienced with years of turning around bad situations in government, business and the volunteer sectors, lives strong family values, and very intelligent who happens to be Mormon. Now the evangelicals have a problem, they claim Mormons are nuts and cultists, however Romney certainly doesn’t walk, talk or act like a crazy cultist. I guess that means either the evangelicals might be wrong in their judgment of the Mormon Church or Romney really isn’t this good. (I’m confussed which religion is based on being a crazy, brainwashed cultist group that dosen’t use logic in making decisions?)

  • While trying to appease the far-right with promises of a theocracy based on “Christianity”. He has alienated himself to everyone supporting separation of church and state. And those of a different faith or none at all can’t feel too comfortable thinking of Mitt in office.

  • think Swan’s concerns about the Mormon religion are correct. It is my understanding, though am not LDS, is that no woman can be saved without the salvation of her husband. (I am unclear what happens to single women, but I guess they are in an unsalvagable position.) That makes me wonder about those women born with disabilities and can never marry, or those who choose a celibate life.

    I do know this about the Mormon faith. I once had a friend who lost her husband through a untimely accident. She was just past thirty and had three young children. The “Elders” came to see her (they were all male of course) and demanded one tenth of her life insurance and pension. When she refused she was excommunicated. That kind of “shepherding” makes me quite uncomfortable, and I would not want to think the President of the United States would submit to such teachings. If Romney wants to be a Mormon good for him, but he will have to be a little more clear on his views of separation of church and state to get my or any practicing Christian’s vote.

    I am a Catholic, not an Evangelical, but I am tired of the so called religious politicians telling me what is moral. A Catholic is urged to use the God given gift of conscience to make moral decisions, not some made up rule that supports an unjust hierarchy.

  • Atrios had a great line about the non-believe bit last night:

    Much of the time it seems that atheists are the only people who understand that importance of religious freedom, and for that we get accused of being hostile to it.

    That seems to sum up it pretty well. Although it doesn’t really explain why Romney has decided that us non-believers (even those who lean more agnostic than atheist) aren’t real Americans and have never had a hand in shaping America. But oh well …

  • Mormons and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints are the same thing.

    Yes, but there is also the Reorganized Church of Latter Day Saints (or RLDS). It’s now called the Community of Christ, and based where I live — in Independence. Mo. Heck, they own about half the town!

    Surprisingly, they’re not as politically meddling — at least locally — as their relatives in Utah (or even evangelicals).

  • Much of the time it seems that atheists are the only people who understand that importance of religious freedom,

    Where I grew up, it was always Jews who were most scrupulous about religious tolerance and defending the separation of church and state.

    Then again, where I grew up, there were a lot of people who lost parents and grandparents in the Holocaust, or who barely escaped it.

  • Well, you can say what you want about how recent religions (scientology, Mormonism, etc) are somehow less credible than older ones, but I’m with Bill Maher on this: They’re all based on fantasy. He thinks Romney’s getting a raw deal from people cutting on him about Mormonism’s craziness when they’re all crazy. Sure, as Swan points out, the older ones have an accumulation of social accretions that are more or less positive (depending on which you focus on) in terms of encouraging positive behavior, but when you get down to their basic beliefs one’s as nutty as another. (I would exempt Buddhism from this categorization, though the sects and accretions that have come after it have made it into a religious superstructure like the rest). Scientology stands out, of course, since its founder was a science-fiction writer, begging the question of just how gullible one would have to be to follow a religion founded by such a guy that talks about the space critters. But look at the others and they make about as much sense. And when it comes down to uncredible founders of recent religions, ol’ Mr. Smith has to be right up there as the 19th century equivalent of L. Ron. I just wish we had an agnostic political party.

  • Label me pole-axed – I’m having trouble processing the fact that I have to agree with Peggy Noonan on something.

    I don’t much mind Mormon theology – it’s whacky, but it’s not much worse than what regular Christians believe. It primarily seems bizarre because it is less familiar. However, I’m very uncomfortable with the mix of theology and government that mormons practice in Utah. This is not an abstract concern – the mormons have had a relatively free hand in setting things up the way they like them in Utah, and the result is by far the most religion-influenced state government in the US. There is much to admire in Mormon life: they walk the talk in terms of prioritizing family life, and they build their towns as communities that are intended to last and to be livable and family-friendly, in distinct contrast to the boom and bust / mobile home aspect of too many resource-extraction-based communities out west. However, the cost of their degree of intrusion of religion into government and secular life seems too high for me.

    I don’t want the rest of the US turned into a very large version of Utah. I don’t trust mormons in general to keep an adequate wall between church and state. I especially don’t trust the born-again wing of the Republicans, and I certainly don’t trust that the current crop of Republican presidential candidates (including Romney) will stand against religious intrusion where necessary. Romney’s speech, in fact, seems to promise to welcome conservative religion with open arms.

  • To Gracious, and anyone else who might base their impression of Mitt Romney’s candidacy on his/her comments:

    Your understanding of the Mormon concept of salvation is incorrect. Please do not misrepresent others’ beliefs by passing on hearsay as though it were fact. It is sad that the vast majority of concerns of the evangelical Christian voter and others about Governor Romney’s fitness for the presidency are rooted in oft-repeated misinformation about what Mormons supposedly believe. I hope that those who read these posts will take the time to verify anything that purports to be the last word on the beliefs of a particular person or sect, instead of blindly swallowing the lies. A good resource: http://www.mormon.org

    Regardless, the particular tenets of Mitt Romney’s religion really are irrelevant when it comes to deciding whether he should be the next president. His speech outlined the only aspect that is relevant –

    “Almost 50 years ago another candidate from Massachusetts explained that he was an American running for president, not a Catholic running for president. Like him, I am an American running for president. I do not define my candidacy by my religion. A person should not be elected because of his faith nor should he be rejected because of his faith.

    Let me assure you that no authorities of my church, or of any other church for that matter, will ever exert influence on presidential decisions. Their authority is theirs, within the province of church affairs, and it ends where the affairs of the nation begin.

    As governor, I tried to do the right as best I knew it, serving the law and answering to the Constitution. I did not confuse the particular teachings of my church with the obligations of the office and of the Constitution — and of course, I would not do so as president. I will put no doctrine of any church above the plain duties of the office and the sovereign authority of the law.”

    As for the story you told about the friend you had who was excommunicated for refusing to turn over a tenth of her pension and life insurance to the “Elders”, I’ll have to again respectfully say, “Bull$#!+”. Perhaps your friend was excommunicated from her church, I don’t know. But I do know that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (often referred to as the Mormon church), the church to which both I and Governor Romney belong, are never compelled to give money to the church, and are certainly not excommunicated for not doing so. So either you are making this up or are mistaken about the details of the incident. Maybe it was a different church?

  • There’s such a lot of fuzzy thinking here, there’s no way to address it all.

    First, “Mormons” is the nickname, LDS is how they refer to themselves.

    Second, Mormonism isn’t just confined to Utah. They have a major presence in many western states, including Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada. The fact that no one knows this is indicative of Easter media bias which is all (seemingly) filtered through Manhattan — witness how the Pentagon attack vanished in the news in the aftermath of 9-11.

    There are five Mormon senators, including Orrin Hatch (not the best advertisement for LDS), Gordon Smith of Oregon, Mike Crapo of Idaho, Harry Reid of Nevada and (I think) Robert Bennett of Utah (unless he’s retired — these are off the top of my head.)

    Third, “Open Mind” the LDS troll states (after slyly characterizing criticism of LDS and Romney as arrogant and bigoted):

    “Here is a Presidential candidate who is extremely well educated, experienced with years of turning around bad situations in government, business and the volunteer sectors, lives strong family values, and very intelligent who happens to be Mormon. Now the evangelicals have a problem, they claim Mormons are nuts and cultists, however Romney certainly doesn’t walk, talk or act like a crazy cultist.”

    Bull. Mitt is a serial liar, a fellow who flouts the law and gets away with it, and makes crazy comments like how his sons are doing more important service to the country by traveling Iowa to help him get elected than by serving in the armed forces, or that his niece was helped by her neighbors pitching in to landscape her home in a gated community while her husband wan on active duty, to show how the Richie Riches are “common folk,” sharing the common suffering, or showing his tailored suit at a presidential debate to indicate what a “blue state” Massachusetts is, that we should “triple” Guantanimo, and not at all to mention his ability to do a 180° on a dime on “core issues” like abortion, gay marriage, and universal health care, etc. etc.

    I believe that none of these are core “Mormon” values, which brings me to my point:

    Mitt’s Mormonism isn’t the point. Mitt’s pandering and lying is the point, and the “alien” nature of Mormonism to most Americans, and their lack of public exposure only adds fuel to the fire for the large number of voters who have little knowledge of LDS. I grew up in Wyoming and was even in an LDS cub scout pack.

    So, I like ’em even if I don’t have all that much respect for ’em. I know when the Mormon missionaries show up on the Hopi Reservation every year (to convert the Hopi, since LDS believe that Native Americans are the “lost ten tribes of Israel”), the Hopi hide.

    Mitt attempted to create an us versus them dichotomy, lumping LDS in with all “Christian” churches (even invoking “Anabaptists” which isn’t heard outside of theology schools nowadays), and characterizing “THEM” as Jihadists, Islamic terrorists and, oh yeah, “secularists.”

    Well, screw you, Mitt: I’m one of those secularists, and a big chunk of the push FOR a secular Constitution came from the Baptists, who’d suffered in New England under Puritan theocracy, much as non-LDS still have problems in Utah’s LDS theocracy.

    If anything about LDS gives you pause, it OUGHT to be their blatant tendency to interfere in politics and business, straddling the sacred/secular line.

    The other nasty in Mitt’s slimy speech was this, which no one seems to address, his invocation of “Jesus Christ” (four times) and then his blanket statement that NOT to include LDS as Christians is “religious intolerance.”

    That’s sleazy: religious tolerance means that I believe you have a right to practice your religion unfettered, unless you’re into Aztec human sacrifice. (I don’t have a problem with Mormon breakaway polygamists). But it DOES NOT mean that I have to accept the tenets of your religion.

    (* And therein he walked into a buzzsaw, since virtually ALL fundies and Catholic theologians believe that LDS is NOT “Christian” — since it differs from standard Orthodox practice going back to the Apostle’s Creed — the first “loyalty” oath against heresy, circa 325 AD. Just sayin’ — I’m a Buddhist, so I don’t have a god in this fight.)

    It is a very sleazy bit of sophistry from Der Mitt. And THAT kind of stuff is why he’s a slimball. LDS has nothing to do with Mitt’s pathological lying.

    Frankly, the church OUGHT to put as much daylight between themselves and the prevaricator from (er … where?) as possible. I have never cared much that Mitt is LDS — mostly I care that he’s a bald-faced liar, and look how well we’ve done with the current one, who IS (allegedly) a fundie “Christian.”

    As for LDS doctrine, don’t even go there. LDS faithful are worse then Freepers, wiith a pronounced (justifiable) paranoia about the ‘heathen’ interpreting their, er, interesting beliefs and tenets. (See above, QED.)

    Talking the talk isn’t important, walking the walk is: And there, Mitt has bunions galore.

    By their fruitcakes ye shall know them.

  • Romney’s Renaissance

    From liberal Massachusetts where Romney campaigned on what the electorate wanted to hear, i.e. religious and social tolerance re gays, abortion, etc, to Philadelphia, thoughts of enlightenment heralding reason and science were the philosophical backbone of a great new country.

    Voltaire on hearing Romney’s new mantra invoked in his “Freedom requires religion” line sat bolt upright. Actually he bumped his head which vexed him all the more.
    “Theese Romney fellow is such a slut” he said. “He makes the liar, Karl Rove, seem pristine and chaste in hees willingness to throw the Constitution under the tumbrils.”

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