Do Clinton’s First Lady years count?

Hillary Clinton offers voters a very compelling pitch about her years of service in public life, which invariably leads to poll results showing her with large leads over her competitors on the issue of experience. But part of this, of course, includes her eight years as First Lady, which historically has been far more of a ceremonial position than a substantive one.

So, do those eight years count? The NYT has a front-page piece on the subject today.

As first lady, Hillary Rodham Clinton jaw-boned the authoritarian president of Uzbekistan to leave his car and shake hands with people. She argued with the Czech prime minister about democracy. She cajoled Roman Catholic and Protestant women to talk to one another in Northern Ireland. She traveled to 79 countries in total, little of it leisure; one meeting with mutilated Rwandan refugees so unsettled her that she threw up afterward.

But during those two terms in the White House, Mrs. Clinton did not hold a security clearance. She did not attend National Security Council meetings. She was not given a copy of the president’s daily intelligence briefing. She did not assert herself on the crises in Somalia, Haiti and Rwanda.

And during one of President Bill Clinton’s major tests on terrorism, whether to bomb Afghanistan and Sudan in 1998, Mrs. Clinton was barely speaking to her husband, let alone advising him, as the Lewinsky scandal sizzled.

In some ways, this may not matter. For one thing, Clinton has been a capable, respected senator for eight years, and doesn’t necessarily have to lean on her work in the 1990s to highlight her presidential qualifications. For another, Clinton may not have had a role in the White House’s handling of foreign policy and national security, but part of her pitch suggests she gained valuable insights, simply by virtue of being there — she saw the pressure, took the shots, and knows as well as anyone what to expect. It’s why Clinton frequently reminds voters about her “eight years with a front-row seat on history.”

But it’s that next step — Clinton has foreign policy experience because of her years as First Lady — that may be something of a stretch.

Asked to name three major foreign policy decisions where she played a decisive role as first lady, Mrs. Clinton responded in generalities more than specifics, describing her strategic roles on trips to Bosnia, Kosovo, Northern Ireland, India, Africa and Latin America.

Asked to cite a significant foreign policy object lesson from the 1990s, Mrs. Clinton also replied with broad observations. “There are a lot of them,” she said. “The whole unfortunate experience we’ve had with the Bush administration, where they haven’t done what we’ve needed to do to reach out to the rest of the world, reinforces my experience in the 1990s that public diplomacy, showing respect and understanding of people’s different perspectives — it’s more likely to at least create the conditions where we can exercise our values and pursue our interests.”

It’s probably fair to say that John Edwards and Barack Obama would offer very similar answers, sans the “experience on the 1990s” phrase.

On the other hand, Clinton probably couldn’t help but gain unique insights on the process.

Friends of Mrs. Clinton say that she acted as adviser, analyst, devil’s advocate, problem-solver and gut check for her husband, and that she has an intuitive sense of how brutal the job can be. What is clear, she and others say, is that Mr. Clinton often consulted her, and that Mrs. Clinton gained experience that Mr. Obama, John Edwards and every other candidate lack — indeed, that most incoming presidents did not have.

“In the end, she was the last court of appeal for him when he was making a decision,” said Mickey Kantor, a close Clinton friend who served as trade representative and commerce secretary. “I would be surprised if there was any major decision he made that she didn’t weigh in on.”

I suppose it’s close to one of those Rorschach tests Kevin’s been talking about. If you’re sympathetic to Clinton, her eight years in the White House offer her the kind of experience and insights that few presidential candidates can even hope to match. If you’re unsympathetic, Clinton shouldn’t count her eight years in a ceremonial position in which she made practically no substantive decisions relating to foreign policy or national security, did not receive intelligence briefings, and did not, as some former officials put it, “feel or process the weight of responsibility.”

It’s the same background, but it’s up to you which version to prefer.

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  • I’ll just stick with the seven years as a U.S. Senator who’s really worked hard to learn her issues (especially regarding the military).

    Seven years, not too few, not too many (Biden/Dodd).

    And none of it making a wide stance in an Airport rest room.

  • good report; interesting subject.

    like bonds and clemens i think an asterisk goes next to hillary’s white house palmares. which pretty much nullifies the experience advantage she touts over obama.

  • Based solely on the examples cited, Hillary Clinton has far more foreign policy experience than GWB had going in, and maybe as much as he does now. THe real question isn’t what experience she has, but what she plans to do with it.

  • Even if she had studiously avoided foreign policy during her stay in the White House she’d have far more experience to call upon than most others up for the job. That doesn’t mean I want her in the job (I don’t … see NAFTA, DADT, the Health Care fiasco, etc.) But there’s no question she’s experienced Unlike, say, the Shrub. I want someone who can kick corporate butt. It wouldn’t hurt us to leave foreign policy to the professionals for a little while. God knows our worldwide image could use a little less codpiece-aided swagger and a lot more humility when it comes to nations whose demographic and educational measures are beginning to make us look third world..

  • I thought back in the 90’s the GOP said she was running the show ??

    We all know her role, so please quit hyping up the known. She didn’t make policy, but I can promise you she heard plenty about it, like anyone’s marriage, she got “If I do this then, and if I don’t, this will happen”.

    I think it’s a huge asset, but the more they push it, the more I feel like they are insulting my intelligence. “Really, he talked to his wife about this or that, I’m shocked…” Next they will be telling us that she will have Billy to help her with policy because he has blah, blah, blah. We get it already.

    I can’t put my finger on an exact point, but she really reminds me of Bush, just with a different agenda. The planted questions, the secrecy, the army of political advisers, and on and on. I really don’t think she is going to give up any powers Bush grabbed.

  • Ever since the argument over HRC’s experience level started heating up, I’ve believed that she has all the skills that the next Democratic president will need as a Chief of Staff . She is hard as nails, she understands how the sausage is made, she can communicate effectively with liberal activists and corporate CEOs and she’s not afraid to get down in the mud if her opponents go there first.

    Best of all, she has no personal principles that she won’t jetison if it gains her a political advantage.

  • In the national public eye — 16 years

    Policy maker — 7+ years

    Exaggeration of her record — always

    If you truly want someone with experience look at Dodd or Richardson.

  • Sweet Jesus just shoot me now. She supposedly got all that “knowledge” in the 90’s, during which the Clintons spent a lot of time being screwed over by the lying Republicans, and then in 2002 she gives the Lying Republicans’ poster child the benefit of the doubt on Iraq.

    The more she says “I’m competent” the more dead people roll in their graves.

    Competent my ass. She either argued for Bush’s Blank Check because she was a freaking idiot (which I doubt) or because she was trying to get The Lobby to be her pals. Her competence is in triangulation, and we need that kind of compretence like a hole in the head. I live in a red state. If (FSM forbid) she’s our nominee, I will of course vote for Democrats all up and down the ticket, but I will not vote for her. If I was in a battleground state I would vote for her, but only because of how awful the Republicans are, which of course is her entire platform: “Vote for me; the Republicans are more evil than I am, and you have no other choice!”

  • Please! No more than her potentially having been married to a surgeon would have given her credibility as a real doctor.

    Bill came to the White House, having been the Governor off his own steam. Now, Shillary, the corporate tool wants to cash in on Bill’s steam, though she’s only served as a 7-year placeholder for the Empire State in the US Senate.

    Get the hell outta here! Seven abysmal years warming a seat in the US Senate plus three decades of both state and federal 1st-lady-dom no more count for Presidential experience than Dumya’s Presidential seal embossed socks and Croc’s make that little dunce an enviable fashion statement.

  • I want someone who can kick corporate butt.

    If you’d meant to write “kiss,” then Our Lady of Perpetual Triangulation is your gal. Her lips are as puckered as their checkbooks are open.

  • Late to this party today, but a few thoughts are running around in my still-addled Christmas brain this afternoon…

    I think the constant invocation of the Bill Clinton years may not help her as much as she would like them to. No, she can’t deny that she was the First Lady for 8 years, nor can she deny that she had many experiences on her own, and as a strong and accomplished woman, she was able to bring her strengths to those experiences, not as the seen-but-not-heard kind of First Lady, but as one who gave voice to her own opinions.

    As the wife of the president, and as part of a couple who have shared their personal and professional lives for many years, she was a sounding board, a devil’s advocate, allowed to express her feelings and opinions about all manner of policy issues.

    But I think she makes a mistake in constantly dragging Bill back into the picture; it makes it feel like she doesn’t think her own strengths, her own Senatorial career, her own vision and plans for the future are enough to sell the electorate on voting for her.

    That may actually be the case – that for all those who are lukewarm or chilly on the notion of voting for her, making sure that Bill is in the picture might be the thing that reassures them that it will be okay. But…I think the danger is that by making Bill so instrumental in what may be her eventual victory, she risks that he will want to be inextricably part of a Hillary Clinton administration, that he will be not-so-willing to be background, after having sat for 8 years in the Oval Office.

    I, at least, would not be looking forward to at least 4 years of the media constantly trying to divine whether President Hillary Clinton’s decisions and policies were hers, or Bill’s. And the first time there is any suggestion that he is undermining her, or that there is infighting as a result of his influence, it will no longer be a Hillary Clinton presidency – she won’t be able to make a move with any credibility.

    That possibility just leaves me completely cold. It’s a shame, really, because without Hillary, there might not have been a Bill Clinton presidency, without Bill, there might not be a Hillary Clinton presidency and with Bill, there might be the strangest presidency of all.

  • steveT writes: “…will need as a Chief of Staff.”

    well, as obama said in one of the recent debates, he has a place for her in his administration, and i think you’ve defined it.

  • For one thing, Clinton has been a capable, respected senator for eight years, and doesn’t necessarily have to lean on her work in the 1990s to highlight her presidential qualifications.

    Outside of voting for every crazed BushCo resolution on he Middle East from the AUMF to declaing the Iranian Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization and authorizing Bush to bomb them, can anyone point to any substantive legistlation that actually does some good that Triangulatin’ Tilly has accomplished in the Senate?

    The more I look at her, the more underwhelmed I am. Here we are, with the chance to change things like they haven’t been changed since 1932, and the best idea we can come up with is to put another goddamned Clinton in office???? And put BozoMan back in there too?????

  • The Times article is basically Sen. Obama’s take on Mrs. Clinton’s experience and is in stark contrast to former Ambassador Joe Wilson’s endorsement of Hillary’s foreign policy credentials written a few days ago.

    I have posts up on both articles for anyone interested…thepoliticalpost.wordpress.com

  • Does the experience Hillary claims point to her ordeal in dealing with her husband’s Monica and other scandals, or what?

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