Dobson, stem-cell research, and Nazis

For the past couple of months, I’ve tried to take Kevin Drum’s advice and not freak out every time a Republican uses Nazis as a historical reference. Jon Chait explained the trick of it:

[W]hen Nazis are invoked, it’s often not to make a moral comparison but to establish a logical principle. That’s the main mistake made by those who decry Nazi allusions. They ignore, or fail to grasp, the distinction between comparing someone to Hitler and using a historical analogy that draws on the Nazi era.

Fair enough. But when James Dobson compared stem-cell research to Nazi experimentation on human beings, it wasn’t just a historical analogy; he was arguing that the two are moral equivalents. He didn’t literally accuse advocates of the research of being Nazis; instead he suggested that we share the Nazis’ moral underpinnings.

“You know, the thing that means so much to me here on this this issue [embryonic stem cell research] is that people talk about the potential for good that can come from destroying these little embryos and how we might be able to solve the problem of juvenile diabetes. There’s no indication yet that they’re gonna do that, but people say that, or spinal cord injuries or such things. But I have to ask this question: In World War II, the Nazis experimented on human beings in horrible ways in the concentration camps, and I imagine, if you wanted to take the time to read about it, there would have been some discoveries there that benefited mankind.”

Oddly enough, it didn’t go over well.

Critics demanded an apology today from James Dobson after the founder of the Christian ministry Focus on the Family compared the ethics of embryonic stem cell research to Nazi experiments on Holocaust victims. […]

“There is no legitimate comparison between stem-cell research, which seeks to find a cure for disease and to counter human suffering, and the perversion of science and morality represented by the actions of Nazi doctors who deliberately tortured their victims in medical ‘experiments,'” [Anti-Defamation League] national director Abraham H. Foxman said. […]

“James Dobson’s remarks were extremely ignorant and insulting,” Rep. Diana DeGette, D-Colo., said in a written statement. “While it’s sad that they warrant a response, his comments diminish the enormity of the Nazis’ atrocities and are an appalling distortion of the debate.”

Yesterday, Dobson started doing some damage control. It wasn’t very effective.

A statement to Focus on the Family members said:

Dobson countered that his statement was being “spun like a top by those who don’t care about unborn life.” […]

He said the original comment — “Experimentation on the blastocytes, which are fertilized eggs, has a Nazi-esque aura to it” — was being taken out of context by those who support embryonic stem-cell research.

Read the transcript; that’s not even close to what he said. Dobson told his national radio audience that Nazis experimented on people which could have produced “some discoveries…that benefited mankind.” In context, his argument was that proponents of stem-cell research have the exact same goal in mind, and in Dobson’s mind we’re equally deserving of condemnation.

“And you remove ethics and morality, and you get what happened in Nazi Germany. That’s why to Senator Frist and the others who are saying, ‘Look what may be accomplished.'”

A “Nazi-esque aura”? That’s a transparent lie. He said the two were one in the same.

I may just be some secular leftist, but it seems to me there’s some kind of Commandment against bearing false witness, right Dr. Dobson?

The problem I have here is that I am convinced
that millions of Americans believe, in their
hearts, that embryos, indeed, mere zygotes,
are human beings.

I’ve come to this conclusion after living in
Idaho, the nation’s most conservative state,
for the last seven years. The people here
are fervently against abortion, and they
demonstrate and write about it furiously.
I have read hundreds of letters to the editor
on this topic, and I have utterly no doubt that
these people genuinely believe that abortion,
no matter at what stage of embryonic development,
is murder.

So maybe Dobson doesn’t really believe that,
so that his comparison is irresponsible and vile,
but tens of thousands of Idahoans truly do believe
this.

So, if they make that comparison here, I can only
shake my head. It’s their belief in God, their
religion, that produces this view, and I’m obliged
to respect it.

  • There is no way that an unimplanted fertilized ovum is, or will be, a human being. Nature spontaneously aborts such “entities” in over half the cases of human fertilization. All those in vitro “entities” not chosen for implanation will be discarded. The only question is whether we learn something from them before discarding them.

    Only someone with the mindset of a Nazi (or the Bush Crime Family for that matter) could compare such non-human “entities” with fully-grown German Jews, gypsies or gays (or Iraq’s civilians) and thereby justify the tortures of the concentration camps’ “experimenters” (or massive doses of “shock and awe”).

    Creeps who do not view Jews, gypsies, gays and Iraqis as human have no business pontificating on the humanity of blastocysts.

  • It’s their belief in God, their religion, that produces this view, and I’m obliged to respect it.

    Hark, that’s where you and I part ways a bit. I think religion in general gets way too much undeserved respect in our country. You’ve got total boobs pontificating on subjects they know not a damn thing about and because they’re religious leaders we’re supposed to respect that. I call bullshit. Like the freakin’ cardinal whatshisface who recently came out with a crock of sanctimonious patronizing pronouncements about the invalidity of evolution. Gimme a break! It was crystal clear from reading it that he doesn’t even understand the issues involved, yet his words are supposed to act as guidance for millions of catholics. And don’t get me started on jerks like Dobson and Robertson et al.

    I would strongly urge you to read The End of Faith by Sam Harris. Then talk to me about respecting baseless beliefs. I wonder how much respect somebody would get who believed in Zeus or Apollo. And how much respect is shown to atheists by fundies, for that matter? Hell, plenty of fundies don’t even have a shred of respect for the established christian religions. Why on earth should any of us give them the respect they’re so assiduous about denying to others?

  • As H.L. Mencken observed, “There is, in fact, nothing about religious opinions that entitles them to any more respect than other opinions get.â€?

    Richard Arvedon

  • President Lindsay, actually, I agree about
    religion getting too much “respect.”

    I use the term “respect” in the sense that
    I accept that’s what they believe, debate
    over, time to pick up the chips and go home.
    No way to change their minds, and I’m not
    wasting any more time trying.

    People believe in all kinds of crazy things.
    I stop arguing when I become convinced that
    their beliefs are immutable and genuine. What
    are you going to do about a little kid who
    believes in Santa Claus?

    I probably said it wrong. I’m having a hard
    time here articulating what I really meant.
    Perhaps “accept” or “understand” would
    have been a better word than “respect.”

    Or, in a Falwellism, “I respect the person,
    but not the belief.”

    Good comment, President Lindsay.

    Don’t worry, I’m a devout non believer.

  • Another way to put it:

    If you assume that an embryo is a human being,
    then there are logical consequences that
    follow. For example, experimentation would
    then be morally wrong, would it not, under the
    assumption?

    It doesn’t mean the assumption is correct. It’s
    absurd, in fact. But people truly believe it.
    Truly. As much as you and I believe the
    earth is round, or that we exist.

    What I’m saying is, don’t go after the Hitler
    comparison, because it follows from the
    assumption. Go after the assumption.
    Except you won’t get anywhere, because
    you can’t change these people’s minds.
    They believe an embryo is a person as
    much as they believe in God.

    Rather naively, during my first couple of
    years out in Idaho, I tried to explain, through
    the letters to the editor, how silly it was to
    think a tiny embryo was a human being.
    I got hammered like you never saw anyone
    get hammered. And I got scorched.

    So we have dumb people on this earth.
    Doesn’t mean they’re bad. Not like Bush
    is. Or Hitler was.

    Oh God! I’ve gone and done it. Compared
    Bush to Hitler. Sorry, didn’t mean it. Then
    again, in that environment, what . . .

  • Don’t worry, I’m a devout non believer.

    Oh, I’m not worried, hark. You can believe whatever you want. I’ll still respect you in the morning.

  • Actually, hark, you’re right about going after the base assumptions, as you are about the fact that people with baseless beliefs aren’t necessarily bad. Heck, we all know wonderful and kind people who are devout believers in god (of one kind or another), many of which have been suckered into being fearful of gays and whoever else is the scapegoat of the moment. And you’re unfortunately dead right, in all too many cases they can’t be budged. They’ll go to their grave believing in the brainwashing. The question is, why is it that a supposedly advanced society can produce such a plethora of intellectual Luddites? And how can so many millions of them blindly follow such a hateful group of con men? It boggles the mind.

  • “And how can so many millions of them blindly follow such a hateful group of con men? It boggles the mind.”

    Write on brother, er President Lindsay…. Amen, too!
    namasté neil e mac

  • This is an ethical issue, not a religious issue. Ethics is a set of values.

    If we place no value on human life, from conception to natural death, then how we will end up any better than the Nazi’s?

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