Don’t fear the 61-year-old part-time librarian

Following up on an item from a few days ago, John McCain hosted a town-hall meeting in Denver on Monday (the event at which he called the Social Security system a “disgrace”), that was open to the public. Carol Kreck, a 61-year-old part-time librarian, attended the event, and stood outside with a hand-held sign with her that read, “McCain=Bush.”

She was ticketed for trespassing, escorted by police off the premises, and told that she would be arrested if she came near the event. To refresh your memory:

I argued that this was an example of McCain following closely in Bush’s “Bubble Boy” footsteps. Some commenters and emailers suggested this wasn’t fair — the decision to remove Kreck was made by the Secret Service, the argument went, not the McCain campaign.

I’d hoped it was obvious, but just to set the record straight, we know that Kreck was removed because of the McCain campaign’s policy, not the Secret Service.

In fact, the Secret Service heard the criticism, and its spokesperson told reporters, “Contrary to some recent reporting, the Secret Service had no involvement in Ms. Kreck being removed from the area. It was not done at our request or suggestion. Any assertion to the contrary is inaccurate and inconsistent with our established policies and procedures.”

Now, to be fair, I should note that it’s not as if a McCain aide saw Kreck and sent law enforcement after her. It appears that the McCain campaign told the Denver Center for the Performing Arts that they didn’t want people holding signs “within the Arts Complex,” and officials, using this policy as a guide, targeted Kreck.

This strikes me as a little odd. I understand that signs could, in theory, block the view of other people in an audience, but Kreck was standing outside, in line. For that matter, I watch some of McCain’s events on C-SPAN, and I see people holding pro-McCain signs all the time (“Hunters for McCain,” “Wisconsin Loves McCain,” etc.).

Put it this way: if Kreck were standing outside, on the Arts Complex’s pedestrian walkway, with a sign that read, “Vote 4 McCain,” does anyone seriously believe she would have received a citation and been threatened with arrest?

As for the politics of this, to reiterate a point from the other day, had officials at the event simply left Kreck alone, most of the attendees probably would have ignored her and her sign would have been of no consequence. However, by giving her a citation and threatening her with arrest, officials have created a legitimate and widely-reported news story and given Kreck a platform she wouldn’t have had if they’d just let her be.

Kreck’s court date is July 23. I’ll let you know what happens.

Scary those women in their sixties.

Like Hillary Clinton, say?

  • The good people of Denver should show up en-mass holding signs that say McCain=No Free Speech. or, “why not pick-on someone your own size war hero”. I wonder what his mom thinks of this kind of baloney. She must be very proud of her sonny boy…

  • “McCain = Bush” should be a compliment to the Republican candidate, no? After all, so many momentous wonderful things have happened on Bush’s watch, and McCain seeks to continue them as much as he has supported them in the recent past.

    So why is “McCain=Bush” deemed inappropriate?

    if Kreck were standing outside, on the Arts Complex’s pedestrian walkway, with a sign that read, “Vote 4 McCain,” does anyone seriously believe she would have received a citation and been threatened with arrest?

    That’s worthy of an experiment. If I can find a suitable volunteer, we’ll try it here in Ohio and see what happens.

  • It’s very clear to me that this 61 year old librarian represents a threat to MCBu$h. After all, don’t librarians read, hence, have a decent understanding of the issues?

  • Better idea:

    some people show up to the McCain event with signs like Kreck’s (McCain=Bush), and some others, liberals preferably, show up along side the the first people with signs of support(Vote 4 McCain!, I Heart McCain, etc).

    Make sure to be within sight of the anti-McCain signs, have videotapes rolling and we’ll see if we can recreate this incident with a control. If the anti-McCain sign holders are ticketed/arrested/removed while the pro-McCain sign holders are left alone/not hassled/not removed, then this is the stuff that we want to get on tape.

    Pretty simple, but even if the pro-McCain sign holders are asked to leave, this experiment needs to be repeated at other events to make sure that it is a consistent campaign policy and not the workings of pro-McCain cops.

    And on the flip side, I suggest the same be done for Obama events, to see if it is a matter of campaign policy or police/security discretion.

  • sorry guy from ohio

    i was typing my comment while you posted, but i’m glad to see this is a shared idea

  • So do we yet know who the fat asshole was that got police to escort Kreck off the premises, citing that faux request from Secret Service? Is it illegal to say that he’s acting under orders from Secret Service, just as it would be for, say, impersonating a police officer? Does he work for the McCain campaign? If he does, will he be reprimanded? Fired? Will his name be released to the media? Does Kreck have grounds for a civil suit against him specifically? Can her suit against her be thrown out since the complaint was instituted from someone with possibly NO legal authority to do so? Can the police arrest that guy?

    I know *I’M* curious.

  • maybe someday somewhere other than just in my dreams some federal judge will drop some mind-blowingly large punitive damage award on everyone involved with a political event on public property that engages in content-based censorship (including physical ramifications like removal, search, seizure, etc) of a political message. Because until that happens, there will be no end to this nonsense. But I’m guessing an injunction (enforcable by contempt – including sitting in jail) against such violations going forward combined with, oh, $1,000,000 per person punitives or so would put a quick end to all the stories we see about this kind of totalitarian thuggery.

    (before anyone jumps in with the obvious, of course the Supreme Court wouldn’t uphold those punitives – see Exxon case – but by the time the deterrent was removed via chain of appeals, the campaign in question would be over and it wouldn’t matter anymore)

  • sorry guy from ohio

    i was typing my comment while you posted, but i’m glad to see this is a shared thought

  • Ohio Guy @3, as a research scientist, I’ve a suggestion to make this a solid scientific experiment. You’ll need six (6) volunteers. One will hold a Vote4McCain sign near a McCain event. One will hold the Vote4Obama sign near an Obama event. The third will hold a McCain = Bush sign near a McCain event. The fourth with hold an Obama 4 Big Brother sign near an Obama event. The two control volunteers will carry no signs.

    Then tell us what happens!

  • It’s interesting that the article now makes clear that the person who asked Kreck to leave was a DCPA security guard, not a policeman, so I’m not entirely clear as to how and when she was cited by the Denver police for trespassing– perhaps the security guard was an off-duty officer?

    Anyway, being one of the commenters to your prior post, I would point out that the text of that post didn’t mention the alleged Secret Service involvement; that apparently was noted in the embedded video but, being unable to view videos, my comment was based on my understanding that the policeman was acting alone, without any direction from the campaign or the Secret Service.

    As for the situation as we currently understand it, I’m still not sure how appropriate it is to ascribe this to a Bubble Boy mentality on McCain’s part. If it is the case that his campaign had implemented a no-signs policy for the event (and it’s at least conceivable that they did so notwithstanding the fact that signs had been present at other events), then it’s hard to say that this was aimed at silencing critics. Were there other signs displayed at the event? Was anyone else carrying a sign turned away? Perhaps most importantly, has McCain made any efforts to screen the audience at any other events? It still sounds to me like this was more a case of an overzealous security guard acting belligerently than a calculated effort on McCain’s part to exclude dissenters from the event; there could be more to it but it just doesn’t seem at this point that the facts are sufficiently clear to make any accusations.

  • Scary those women in their sixties.

    Like Hillary Clinton, say?

    (Rolling eyes) Yes, because all women in their 60s are interchangeable.

  • “It’s interesting that the article now makes clear that the person who asked Kreck to leave was a DCPA security guard, not a policeman, so I’m not entirely clear as to how and when she was cited by the Denver police for trespassing– perhaps the security guard was an off-duty officer?”

    This Denver resident (who is motified by this whole thing) says the guy looks like a Denver cop. Possibly an off-duty officer working security. I’d be interested to know.

  • I listened to an audio of a campaign staffer saying that the secret service had told him to ask this person to leave so obviously the McCain campaign staff were trying to justfy their actions by acting as if they had no choice and blaming it on the secret service. I’m glad the SS officer refuted that claim so blame is squarely on the McCain campaign. Thanks for clearing that up.

    McCain = Bush progressed 30 yrs. but don’t confuse McCain as he has trouble remembering things since his Vietnamese captors removed part of his brain.

  • Free Proton

    I don’t think the control volunteers are necessary, as there are plenty of non-sign-bearing persons at these events, they provide this control already and for the most part, I’m guessing they are left alone, unless they are wearing a code pink t-shirt.

    Multiple signs of both sides, at both campaign events would probably elicit more usable data. One tends not to base their conclusions on the results of a single experiment, repeatability I think is key here, especially to rule out whether this type of incident is the result of localized over-zealous law enforcement, or a pattern of events that follows the campaigns around the nation.

    I agree that the Obama campaign deserves the same experiment, because if I am going to vote for him, I would like to know that he does not engage in Bush-style message control.

    I can’t imagine that law enforcement over-zealousness would be contained to one or two towns, but if this experiment is done enough times, we might be able to rule it out, or factor it in.

    Good to know other researchers are out there on these sites.

  • Some claim that she is a fairly well-known activist and “staged” this incident by having her own videographer catching it all on tape. If so, good for her!

    But these rent-a-cops are notorious “mavericks”. They’ll throw you out something as minor as having sex in the balcony section, er, so I’ve heard.

  • A simple $20 tip to the rent-a-cop ahead of time will prevent that, Dale. So I’ve heard.

  • Don’t fear the 61-year-old part-time librarian

    Part-time librarian. Full time TERRORIST! The fact that they are so scared of protest proves to me that the Sixties worked.

    Why do they always paint librarians as mousy? I’ve been shushed with terminally extreme prejudice before.

  • Maria said:
    (Rolling eyes) Yes, because all women in their 60s are interchangeable.

    Yes, but only at certain kinds of parties out in the ‘burbs.

  • How would you all react if a protester showed up at an Obama event with a sign critical of Obama?

    What is a campaign supposed to do with sign-wielding people who shout out at the candidate while they’re speaking? Do they let them disrupt the event and allow the message to be about the protester being hauled out OR do they send them out so that the message of the event actually gets covered?

    Clearly the woman with the sign (one I agree with 100%) is there to get her message across that McCain and Bush are the same. To say that Republicans should be happy that she is showing a sign that makes them equivalent, is ridiculous however (other than to score propoganda points).

    So seriously, what are the real issues that surround protesters being at campaign events? Let’s not pretend we wouldn’t have the same inclinations as the McSame camp about protesters.

  • Maria said:
    A simple $20 tip to the rent-a-cop ahead of time will prevent that, Dale. So I’ve heard.

    Thanks for the word from the wise. I’ve got my own place now though. 🙂

  • Patrick Briggs said:
    So seriously, what are the real issues that surround protesters being at campaign events? Let’s not pretend we wouldn’t have the same inclinations as the McSame camp about protesters.

    Let’s watch the conventions and see if they handle sign-wielding people in the audience? 😉

  • Oh, Dale, you haven’t let that make you stale, have you? A few years in their own digs and everyone forgets the exquisite sublimity of making it in the nosebleed section while John McCain, 40 rows below, mumbles about patriotism and POWs. If that’s not Americana I’d like to know what is.

  • exquisite sublimity of making it in the nosebleed section while John McCain, 40 rows below, mumbles about patriotism and POWs. If that’s not Americana I’d like to know what is.

    Well that would be a patriotic statement. It would give “rise for the national anthem” a whole new meaning.

  • doubtful said:
    At least they didn’t tase her, bro.

    🙂 At McCain events they use defibrillators for that.

  • Okay, so I asked this question the other day, and some stupid, mouth-breathing McCain troll that i addresses the question to never bothered to answer.

    WHO IS THE GUY IN THE TAN COAT WHO FINGERED SECRET SERVICE AS BEING RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS?!?

    If he’s a detective for DPD, then he ought to be demoted to “meter-maid” status for a few years, if not down-right fired. If he pretended to be SS, and he’s really a flunky for Mccain, then prosecute him to the fullest extent allowed under the law.

  • P. Briggs asks:

    What is a campaign supposed to do with sign-wielding people who shout out at the candidate while they’re speaking? Do they let them disrupt the event and allow the message to be about the protester being hauled out OR do they send them out so that the message of the event actually gets covered?

    Where might I find an answer to that question. . . when the sign-wielding person is on public property. . . so interference under cover of state authority would imply the enforcement of some law. . . oh yeah – here it is:

    Congress [or the state, via the 14th Amendment] shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech . . . or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    Lets see, she was peaceable and engaging in speech. I think we have our answer on what we should do about it: not a damned thing. moreover, that is all we can do about it. That pesky Constitution and all.

  • Re DB @ #6:
    i was typing my comment while you posted, but i’m glad to see this is a shared idea

    GMTA, and a fairly harmless experiment (until the tasers come out). I like the added test for Obama’s events. I expect there will be several opportunities for each. Checking calendars ….

  • What is a campaign supposed to do with sign-wielding people who shout out at the candidate while they’re speaking?

    That would be a strawman when compared to this topic — the woman did not shout anything at anyone.

    As far as the question of what we would think if someone showed up at an Obama event with an anti-Obama sign, I can only speak for myself — I don’t give a crap.

    Granted, it depends on if it’s a public place compared to, say, a private residence, but overall, as long as the person is not being disruptive, rude or dangerous, the person has a right to be in a public place. Period.

    And if the Obama camp had that person removed, I’d call them on it.

  • What is a campaign supposed to do with sign-wielding people who shout out at the candidate while they’re speaking?

    Ask them to please quiet down. If the behavior persists, toss them outside. There’s a difference between abridging speech and being a disruptive asshole. The finer points? By shouting down a candidate who is trying to speak at a planned event held by the candidate, the shouter is abridging the candidates speech. The shouter can go outside and shout all he or she wants, or hold his or her own event and shout ad nauseum.

    Carrying a sign abridges no one’s speech. Standing and holding up your sign, turning your back on the speaker so your t-shirt slogan shows, or other such visible means does not abridge the speaker’s speech, and as long as you aren’t blocking any one else’s view, is perfectly acceptable.

    Unless you’re a fascist shill for the Republican idiots running America into the ground, then you break out the tasers and have at it.

  • GuyFromOhio

    If the tasers come out, remain calm and don’t protest the police too much. If they tase you, well, that’s why it’s pertinent to have multiple cameras recording all of this action. Generally, the more you exhibit control of yourself and the escalating situation, especially while you speak in soft tones and the offending officer gets increasingly louder, this reflect well on you the victim, even more so because there is video documentation of the incident being made to shown in court on your behalf.

    But especially do not be afraid of the police, because if you do, you have become submissive to the expansion of our increasingly militarized police state. That is not to say you shouldn’t be respectful, always be. Know your rights and stand up for your rights because if you don’t, who will.

    There was an explosion recently near my parents house, rocked their small little neighborhood and told me to listen on my police scanner for information about it because they suspect a meth lab had recently moved in. I listened for a while and eventually never heard Fire or Police going out to investigate. I asked my parents if they called the police to report what the had heard and felt(shook their house’s windows). They said no they didn’t; they thought someone else would call it in. And apparently none of their neighbors they saw outside looking for the source of the blast called the police either, perhaps thinking someone else would call.

    Sorry about the anecdote but this gets to my point that if you expect someone else to stand up for anything, than nothing will be changed. If everyone stands up for themselves, believing no one else will do it, then as a whole, we can affect change. That is what this nation needs right now lest we slide the rest of the way into complete authoritarianism.

  • i can’t speak for all y’all, but if I were at an Obama event & saw anti-Obama protestors, I’d start pointing and laughing at them. I’d get video of myself n front of them giving they old “What a bunch of jerkoffs” gesture and wearing an I’m With Stupd(s) t-shirt. I’d shout that they’re going up on my “assholes of the day” website. I’d speak in a high falsetto voice “Ooooooh I think Obama is a Skeeeeeery back man, saves me, saves me! Oooooooh!” I’d ask any of them what Rush Limbaugh’s cock tastes like. I’d hold Bugs Bunny-esque signs with a screw & a ball, or a bull & a pile of shit, or a picture of Moe Howard & a picture of Ron Howard and shout out “Moe! Ron! Moron! It’s a joke, son!” I’d ask all the guys “which one of you pinched my ass? Why is it al you vocal Republicans are all closet homosexuals? Come out already!” and in general, make them wish they were anywhere else. They’re entitled to their free speech, and I’m entitled to mine. Hee Hee.

  • Ok well not to be a spoil sport here, but when Obama came to Minneapolis for his victory speech no one was allowed to bring in sign there either. Once people were seated the campaign gave out pre-made signs for the audience to hold. We were told that they wanted to control the message and did not want anyone to disrupt the moment.

  • You forgot the last time McCain was in Denver Code Pink interrupted McCain 4 times during a speech.

    I don’t remember ever a group from the right interupting a speech by Obama

    Give it a rest you people.

    Your actions are hurting Obama.

    Obama has gone from up 15 in newsweek to up 3.

    Kreck is known as a far left nut in denver. This doesn’t help any.

  • I don’t remember ever a group from the right interupting a speech by Obama

    A person who truly does not want others to practice their Constitutional Right to protest; to Assemble, to Express, and to Question—who does not believe in that Right, or who believes that such a Right should be abolished—will not embrace that Right, even for her-or-his own purposes.

    Oh, and by the way—“interrupting” has two “r’s” in it. The second “r” thinks you’re a twit for censoring its First Amendment Right to free expression, and I wholeheartedly agree with it on that count.

    Twit.

  • If some whack job shows up to get in to an Obama rally holding a sign saying “Obama Bin Laden”, are we so sure he’d be welcomed?

    Just sayin…

    A person clearly attempting to ruffle feathers can expect some level of pushback
    Not that I fear a 61 year old woman ending up having to shout “Don’t Tase me, bro!”, I just can’t say the same about possible Obama protesters who would try something similar.

    The McCain=Bush was a transparently hostile act. Are they OBLIGATED to seat her if it seems likely she’s there just to make trouble? As I recall, they even offered to let her join in, minus the sign.

    Of all the reasons to scoff at “Ace”, this one is pretty weak.

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