Edwards rejects Rubinomics

Last week, Paul Krugman offered the incoming Democratic majority some advice: do not place deficit reduction at the top of the priority list.

As Krugman explained, former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin helped convince the party in the 1990s that deficit reduction was key to fiscal and budgetary policy. At the time, in the midst of what Krugman accurately describes as “an era of peace, prosperity and favorable demographics,” the approach was sound and successful. But we’re facing different challenges now, and “Rubinomics” may not fit the circumstances.

“[Democrats] should refrain from actions that make the deficit worse,” Krugman said. “But given a choice between cutting the deficit and spending more on good things like health care reform, they should choose the spending.”

He even laid out a scenario: let’s say through a combination of fixing Bush’s Medicare Plan D, deescalating the war in Iraq, and scaling back some of the White House’s less-defensible tax cuts, Congress suddenly has some extra money. Do lawmakers a) pay down some of the debt Bush has created; or b) invest the money in areas such as health care.

To be sure, this is a fairly controversial prescription, even among many Dems, but I think it’s worth noting that the approach has at least one high-profile ally: John Edwards.

Ezra is on the road, covering the brand new Edwards presidential campaign, and transcribed an important exchange Edwards had during a Q&A in Iowa. A voter noted that the deficit is often overlooked and asked Edwards what his approach to the issue would be. After noting Bush’s deplorable record on the issue, Edwards acknowledged “a tension between our desire to eliminate the deficit and create a stronger economic foundation and eliminate some of the debt our children will inherit.”

Edwards took a side.

“I think that, if we’re honest, you cannot it, it’s just common sense in the math, have universal health care, and invest in energy, and make a serious effort to eliminate poverty, to strengthen the middle class, and do some of the work that I think America needs to be leading on around the world, and at the same time, eliminate the deficit. Those things are incompatible. And anybody who claims — politicians who say ‘I’m going to give you a big tax cut, and give you health care, put more money into education, and oh by the way, we’re going to balance the budget in the process,’ it’s just make-believe, it isn’t the truth.

“So I think there’s gonna be hard judgments that have to be made — my commitment is to have universal health care, to do things that have to be done about this energy situation and global warming, because I think they’re enormous threats, not only to the people of America but to the future of the world, for America to lead on some of these big moral issues that face the world, and I think America has to do something about poverty, I just do. Those are higher priorities to me than the elimination of the deficit. I don’t want to make the deficit worse and I would like to reduce the deficit, but in the short-term, if we don’t take a step to deal with these other issues, it in my judgment, undermines the ability of America to remain strong in the 21st century.”

Ezra described this as “a genuinely important admission, and one that very, very few Democrats are willing to make.” I think that’s absolutely true, particularly after the voter probably asked the question with a far different answer in mind.

First, Edwards deserves credit for an honest, informative answer. Second, and perhaps more importantly, watch for this issue to be a key policy debate during the primaries.

I might agree if only the deficit wasn’t in absurd crisis. America needs to be honest with itself. Because of the wars of Bush, we’re going to have to make some sacrifices over the next several years.

Edwards just went down a notch on my excitement meter.

  • The only debate will be about whether we should talk about it. There is no real issue here. We are never going to get out from BG2’s debt because we would have to get out from Reagan’s and Bush 41’s debts first.

    In this I give Clinton credit for paying off Carter’s debt, though as he did not have a real operating budget surplus, that’s not true either.

  • I disagree with Krugman’s recommendation although I agree with many of his prior statements. Deficit reduction has to be done and by doing so the Dems can contrast themselves with the Republican spend like a drunken sailor, do nothing party….

  • The deficit is not critical, and we won’t score any points for getting Bush out of the jamb he’s created. Good for Krugman and good for Edwards. Let those worthy programs be funded and let the GOP go back to its traditional role of calling us spendthrifts for addressing problems of real people rather than those of bankers and bean-counters. Hooray for Edwards! I think I’m gonna love this campaign.

  • “All this deficit and we got nothing for it.” – Dale

    Nonsense, Dick Cheney went from being a Millionaire to being a Multi-Millionaire. All it took was another Trillion or so in debt.

    Pity we couldn’t have just cut him a check for $100,000,000. It would have been a lot cheaper. But then he’s not the only one benefiting from his energy and war policies.

  • Universal health care for Americans has to be the defining issue in 2008, because it is the right thing to do. The deficit is just a big, ridiculous number to most Americans. I hate debt, but if it is a choice between universal health care and deficit spending (in the short term), I choose deficit spending. I would rather invest in helping people live better.

  • I think Edwards is great but I just don’t know what has changed since 2004 except that he is two years older. The more I think about the Dems in 2008, the more I think the nomination is Al Gore’s to lose: he was robbed in 2000, has been consistently right on Iraq (unlike Hillary), and will not have a problem with either cash or name recognition… I wrote a story on this at http://www.minor-ripper.blogspot.com

  • I don’t know enough about economics to have a strong opinion on the deficit issue, but kudos to Edwards for taking a clear stand and telling the voter something s/he probably didn’t want to hear, when most politicians would probably have avoided the question with empty rhetoric.

  • I agree with Ed and with John Edwards. There are some things that are more important than deficit reduction on America’s list of priorities and to lay out a vision for the country and then say you’re gonna reduce the deficit at the same time is just dishonest.

    The Edwards campaign only 2 days old and im already excited. Its clear he’s learned some lessons from the ’04 campaign. The one that matters the most is to stick your principles and value system.

    So far so good, Mr Edwards.

  • Yes, whether or not you agree with Edwards he is going to win a lot of support just by answering the way he did I think the country is finally beyond the point of wanting to be lied to by politicians. This is where I think both Hilary and Obama will fail–they will tell us what we want to hear, not what we need to hear. Edwards is refreshingly open and honest lately. I think Gore would walk away with the nomination if he decided to go for it, but until he does I think Edwards is the one to watch.

  • INCREASE the federal estate tax. Soak Paris Hilton. Reduce the home mortgage deduction. Soak Paris Hilton The right has waged class warfare for over 20 years. It is time for the Democrats to join the fight. We’ve got money, but it’s all tied up in trust funds.

  • I probably side more with the deficit hawks, but I don’t see a rigid either/or. The challenge is to find a balanced solution to multiple (and often conflicting) needs. Universal healthcare and debt reduction is one such conundrum. Ignoring one to concentrate on the other, isn’t much better than ignoring both. This means that both will have to be tackled incrementally, as much as I’d like both tomorrow.

  • There are things more important than the deficit reduction…but not many and not by much. Maybe the following 3

    1)global warming …a top priority just for the sheer earth existance of it all and a future for my grandchildren.

    2) campaign finance reform along with other steps to reduce being a country by & for the rich or by & for the corporate dollar. All else will follow if the doors are opened to more candidates…not just those with the $$ power (their own or someone else’s) .

    3) Media reform…bring back an independent many splendored 4th estate…media has become so concentrated in the hands of a few corps and now only panders to the dollar and corp. stock holder.

    Then split any remaining excess dollars between the deficit and other worthy needs.

  • JRS, Jr. If by the masses you mean the other guys at the bar at your local Country Club, then I agree. I also don’t care.

    But the once-modest deduction has evolved into a very large and highly inefficient rent subsidy. The deduction plainly causes distortions. People are willing to pay more for houses and buy bigger houses than they otherwise would because they can deduct the interest from their taxes. “When Americans invest the bulk of their life savings in housing, that’s a redistribution of capital from the productive business sector,” said Sullivan.

    What’s more, the expansion of the deduction seems occasionally to have more to do with stimulating the financial-services industry than with allowing Americans to turn their homes into assets. Consider the growth of interest-only mortgages. With the deduction, the government is effectively subsidizing your monthly payment. But you’re not building any equity, you’re just paying rent. It’s hard to say how an interest-only loan encourages home “ownership.”

    Then there are home-equity loans. The proceeds from home-equity loans can be used to pay for an addition or repairs, but also for a television or for a trip to Jamaica. And the taxpayer foots a portion of the bill. What does this have to do with encouraging homeownership?

    What’s more, it’s remarkably unprogressive. One of the biggest obstacles to homeownership is the inability to come up with a down payment. The deduction doesn’t help you there. Taxpayers who don’t itemize deductions—generally people in the lower income brackets—don’t receive any benefit from the home-mortgage deduction. And the more you borrow, and the higher your tax bracket, the more valuable the deduction becomes.

    So, what would happen if the home-mortgage deduction were slowly phased out? For the sectors of the housing market where homeowners tend not to itemize deductions, the impact would probably be minimal. At the higher end, housing prices might be expected to adjust, but not to crash. Consider a home buyer in the 25 percent tax bracket with an 8 percent mortgage. Thanks to the interest deduction, he effectively pays 6 percent on the mortgage. Losing the deduction would have the same effect on his personal finances and mentality as a rise in mortgage rates from 6 percent to 8 percent would. A bummer? Certainly. But such moves have happened frequently without causing crises. And if the elimination of the deduction were accompanied by a reduction in rates elsewhere, it would be a wash for many homeowners. The real harm would come to the home-building industry.

    And that’s the real reason we shouldn’t bet the house on eliminating or reducing the mortgage deduction. The home-building, home-selling, and home-buying industries, which claim to speak for homeowners, would bitterly oppose such a move. And so it’s no surprise that earlier this year, when President Bush penned instructions to the advisory panel on tax reform, he told them to “recognize[e] the importance of homeownership.”

  • There was more to that Krugman article than the choice: cut spending (and reduce the deficit) or continue spending (and keep the deficit stabilized) and his coming down on the side of ignoring the deficit reduction. He also gave a reason why it would be unwise to concentrate on reducing the deficit by cutting spending. And the reason is this: if we cut spending, the majority of voters will, inevitably, get disappointed and will swing back to repubs. At which point, the repubs will feel frisky, with the deficit reduced and maybe even some fat covering the bare bones of the state. And they’ll make new shambles of the budget again, keeping all the spending cuts (which benefit the poor and the middle class but not the corporations) and spending the “extra” on their loony pet projects (wars, tax cuts for the rich, etc). So then the Dems will swing back into fashion, only to start the vicious circle again: we save, they spend.

    What Krugman is suggesting is that Dems should stop being the “crossing boy”, who spent all his days sweeping horse apples off the street, so that the rich could walk without getting touched by muck. And so that they could drive — their horses leaving new apples to sweep — without getting the wheels of their high coaches dirty.

  • For once, I’m in 100% agreement with JRS Jr. I’m going to put in a call and see if the temperature has dropped in hell.

  • Rege — The fact is the day Edwards (or any other candidate for that matter) endorses the elimination of the mortgage interest deduction is the day his/her poll numbers start eroding. Just look at the stir that was caused earlier this year when Bushes tax code team looked into changing mortgage deductions.

    Also, As told by the Nat’l Realtor Assoc (granted, biased) but what many US homeoweners believe in their hearts…

    The mortgage interest deduction remains the most effective tax incentive to expand homeownership. Homeownership provides important social as well as economic benefits. It is the cornerstone of a healthy community, the basis for positive community involvement, and a family’s first step on the ladder to wealth.

    The national homeownership rate stood at a high 69 percent of U.S. households in the first quarter of 2005. Though we’ve seen dramatic increases among minorities, there remains a gap in homeownership rates between white, African Americans, Hispanics and other minority groups. The elimination of the mortgage interest deduction would cause homeownership rates to drop.

    The tax deductibility of interest paid on mortgages is both a powerful incentive for homeownership and one of the simplest provisions in the tax code. It should not be targeted for change.

    But Rege, I’ll be sure to share a toast in your name this evening!

  • Homeownership is a good thing and deserves support. But not second homes, not mansions on the hill, not the condo in the city for visits. I also don’t think anyone expects deficit reduction while we are engaged in Iraq. And if we don’t do something about global warming soon, deficits aren’t going to mean much anyway.

    I am very excited that Edwards is running. If nothing else, he will set a bar for honesty that other candidates will be measured by. He is not a fool – he knows he doesn’t have a huge chance to win. The pundits are already crowning H Clinton.

  • I tend to agree with rege that home mortgage deductions distort the market. When I watch the mortgage rates I note they tend to be about 25% higher than other secured loan rates. This is due, I believe, to the fact that banks are sucking out the tax deduction the government is giving you.

    Nice to see JRS Jr. embracing such a liberal concept as government subsidies for home ownership though 😉

  • The deficit has to be reduced because it is the only way that Social Security will remain intact. So long as the Social Security Trust Fund is being used as part of the general fund to finance deficits, Social Security will never remain solvent and someday will face serious problems and hard choices. The longer we put up with abusing the Social Security Trust Fund to fund deficits, the more danger we put Social Security in. That has to be one of our major priorities.

  • Yeah, Lance #6, we could have bought off Cheney and Saddam with all the money we could have saved from not warring. Bush hasn’t been doing deficit-spending, he’s been deficit-pissing-our-money-away.

  • Reduce the home mortgage deduction. –Rege

    I finally agree with JRS Jr. The home mortage dediuction and capital gains exemptions are the final remaining break the middle class has. If we are ever going to create any personal wealth for our own retirement, we need a good capital gains exemption and a mortgage exemption. If we are going to raise taxes, lets start with Exon or Standard Oil and leave the poor middle class alone. From health care to college tuition, we keep getting screwed. Can we at least keep the wealth we have accumulated in our homes or even our second homes? Anyone who believes it is a good idea to tax home ownership hasn’t lived long enough.

    By the way there are many programs for first time buyers to enter the housing market with a very small down payment or no down payment.

  • After the end of the Cold War, there was much talk of the forthcoming Peace Dividend that would come from the redistribution of money away from making nukes and the military to other peaceful purposes. What Krugman seems to be indicating is that we may have an “oversight dividend” that will come from getting rid of wasted cash spend on Halliburton, Katrina rebuilding and Iraq reconstruction. A billion here a billion there and soon we’ll be talking about some real money.

    I don’t know if I can agree completely with Krugman, since not minding the deficit sounds a lot like folks who hawked 3-year no interest home loans, but I think this nation would have a much more optimistic financial outlook if we were able to rid ourselves of the long national nightmare of out of control health care costs.

  • How about – limit the home mortgage deduction to ONE HOME PER FAMILY? That promotes everything everyone is worried about on this issue for the 95% of families who own one home. Those with summer homes, vacation homes, condos in the city for work, etc., etc., can finally START PAYING THEIR SHARE.

  • Also, property tax relief on RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY ONLY. Today, going on 30 years since passage of Prop 13 here in California, the only property owners still getting the original tax relief that was promised are the CORPORATIONS who are the only ones who own property for 30+ years. The residential property owners have had all the tax burdens transferred to them (surprise surprise) as homes have appreciated in value and the average homeowning family lives in their home for 5 years (so they lose all the benefits of the Prop 13 reduction). If you just taxed corporate property at its fair market value, you could drop all residential property taxes and still see more income.

    Republican tax reform: socialism for the rich and the corporations.

  • Also, property tax relief on RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY ONLY.–Tom Cleaver

    I buy that idea, but good luck changing the prop 13 Constitutional Ammendment

  • Do any of you know the current cap on the home mortgage deduction?

    Under periodic and unsuccessful attack since the Reagan years, this rule allows homeowners to deduct interest on home mortgages (including, with certain restrictions, second mortgages and home equity loans) up to $1 million, and also the property taxes on those homes. Deductions are also available for second homes that are, however infrequently, owner occupied. That deduction can also be taken for boats and possibly other “residential” vehicles that function as primary or second homes.

    This deduction is estimated to cost the U.S. Treasury some $63 billion in revenues as taxpayers claim some $337 billion in home mortgage interest deductions each year.

    Also how does giving the deduction to interest only mortgages help to encourage home ownership?

  • I too seldom agree w/JRS jr, but here I have to go with the basic idea about mortgage deductions being a potent incentive for home owners. But I think Tom Cleaver (all posts) has it right … make it for residential owners alone and tax corporate at a higher rate.

    As a modest home owner of a decent, if older, home, I can say that it makes a significant dent in my taxes every year. Not ideal, by any means, but at least I get a few hundred back each year, and in our modest income range, that does make a difference. But again, property tax deductions will make the big difference in years to come … as local governments get more and more strapped for cash, we have seen ours go up every year, thus prompting ever increasing strains on the equity of our loan.

    I’m no economist (and don’t even pretend to play one on TV), but it seems to me that taxing corporate property at a higher rate than single family, one residence homes does make a lot of sense. I think it could (along with more relaxed rates for first time buyers… as we were) bring more people into the mix, even if some do take on loans that are relatively risky. Focus the incentives more on the working class segment of the country and less on providing corporate bailouts and favors and we just might be on our way to a better balance that can begin to address the heinous breaks given during these past 6 years of Shrub.

    But I suppose that smacks of ‘socialism’ to too many in the current permagov… but at least Edwards is raising the issue. Since Feingold dropped out, and in all clear conscience I can’t support Kucinich again (rabidly I did in 2004), at this point I’m solidly in the Edwards camp! Too bad I was at work yesterday when he had his town hall meeting in town here… I really did want to go … but I had to WORK to make sure our bills get paid on time.

  • Guy’s I am really enjoying all this new found love you are all giving me. However, I’m not saying the home interest rate deduction is fair to all (especially renters), and even don’t support it at such levels, My only point is the mortgage interest deduction, like Social Security, is one of those taboo items that will not be received well if a politician starts to mess with it.

    Rege, let’s just go straight to a flat tax, shall we???

  • JRS Jr., Why would I want to go to a flat tax which will shift a greater burden to middle and low income workers? Consider for example Hall-RAbushka “Flat-Tax” proposal

    …[C]onservative economists and tax experts say middle-class Americans are not likely to make out as well under the Forbes plan as he promises. To raise as much revenue as the current tax system, the Hall-Rabushka plan starts at a 19% tax rate, 2 points higher than Forbes’, and exempts much less income from taxation–$25,000 instead of $36,000. Hall and Rabushka estimate that under their proposal, taxpayers with incomes between $30,000 and $90,000 would pay slightly more in income taxes than they do now. That is in part because an unavoidable cost of the simplicity of a single-rate tax is lower tax collections from the wealthy, and that revenue must be recouped somewhere. In their plan, and in Forbes’, the nonrich would probably lose in other ways as well. Because most businesses, shorn of special tax breaks, would face higher effective tax rates, they would probably pass along that cost as higher consumer prices. Denied a tax break for employer-provided health insurance, companies would either curtail those benefits or reduce wages. And under Forbes’ plan, there would be no relief from the biggest tax burden that faces most workers: the 15.3% Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes.

    Frankly, JRS, Jr, I have no interest in helping out you and your country club buddies.

  • let’s just go straight to a flat tax, shall we???

    Leave it to JRS, just when he finally says something that some people can agree with, he has to come out swinging with another obnoxiously stupid position.

    Take your flat tax and shove it.

  • Comments are closed.