Finding a common line on Israel

As a rule, Israel blogging isn’t really on my beat, but Barack Obama spoke with about 100 members of Cleveland’s Jewish Community yesterday morning, and offered an interesting perspective on U.S.-Israeli affairs.

“I think there is a strain within the pro-Israel community that says unless you adopt a unwavering pro-Likud approach to Israel that you’re anti-Israel and that can’t be the measure of our friendship with Israel. If we cannot have a honest dialogue about how do we achieve these goals, then we’re not going to make progress.

“And frankly some of the commentary that I’ve seen which suggests guilt by association or the notion that unless we are never ever going to ask any difficult questions about how we move peace forward or secure Israel that is non military or non belligerent or doesn’t talk about just crushing the opposition that that somehow is being soft or anti-Israel, I think we’re going to have problems moving forward. And that I think is something we have to have an honest dialogue about.”

In context, I think Obama was responding to concerns about Zbigniew Brzezinski supporting his campaign, but the senator explained, “There’s never been any of my advisors who questioned the need for us to provide Israel with security, with military aid, with economic aid. That there has to be a two state solution, that Israel has to remain a Jewish state.”

Now, what struck me as interesting about Obama’s comments, most specifically his argument that one can be pro-Israel without being “unwaveringly pro-Likud” — a sentiment I wholeheartedly agree with — is that his remarks sound like the kind that might be perceived as inherently divisive.

But that may not entirely be the case.

Matt Yglesias, for example, sounded quite pleased.

[T]his is considerably more forward-leaning than I’d heard previously from Obama….

This is music to my ears and, frankly, very much the attitude that’s Israel’s long-term future requires. Still, in some quarters the man may as well have just festooned himself with swastikas.

And, of all people, TNR’s Marty Peretz also sounded pleased.

I have written here and elsewhere that Barack Obama’s views on Israel and the possibilties of peace between it and the Palestinians are both tough-minded and deeply comprehending. I don’t at all think that I’d be disappointed with an Obama presidency, and certainly not with his attitude towards the Jewish State. He is also not massaging Jewish audiences when he observes — correctly — that Israelis are, in general, far more various in their views on the security situation than American Jews or American Jewish organizations. But one of the reasons for that is many of those who are prone to criticize Israel in the U.S. are also deluded in their conviction that Jewish sovereignty itself is the essence of what prevents peace with the Palestinians. So, instead of asserting the justice of Jewish peoplehood, they really want to abandon it, and, with that, the state itself. Well, in Israel, no Jew would countenace giving up sovereignty. In America, there are a lot of self-righteous and cavalier Jews who would give up the sovereignty of other Jews, half the Jews in the world, so that they themselves might feel morally untouched by nationalism. Just like many deluded Jews in pre-war France, England and Germany.

In any case, here are Obama’s opinions and sharp insights, as expressed in Cleveland yesterday, on Israel and the Palestinians. They are not mine exactly. But they are enough like mine to let me sleep calmly.

As Jonathan Chait put it, “Maybe [Obama] really can bring America together.”

That sounds eerily like Howard Dean’s “even handed” comment of 2004, which the Likudnick Lobby went apeshit over.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/israel/dean.asp

  • Wow. I’ve got another reason to like Obama. And I’ve yet to hear anything I’ve disagreed with. And the reason is that he’s in a position where he can call it like he sees it, and isn’t trying to bend over backwards trying to feign the right posture. Instead of trying to beat Republicans by outflanking them on their own positions, he takes the correct position, conventional wisdom be damned. He’s the kind of Democrat we’ve all been clamoring for all these years.

    And the only complaint anyone can make against him is that he’s lying about all this, and somehow isn’t going to do what he says. But I’d still prefer that over someone who starts off with the wrong positions.

  • I enjoy Obama’s lack of pander in these instances. Unafraid to say what needs to be said in the face of the people who know it, but don’t want to hear it.

    See also: CAFE standards in Detroit, not just at the Sierra Club; calling balck culture to account in MLK speech…others I cannot recall off the top of my head…

  • See also: CAFE standards in Detroit, not just at the Sierra Club; calling balck culture to account in MLK speech…others I cannot recall off the top of my head…

    Talking about merit pay at a major teacher’s union event is another example. (FWIW, one I happen to disagree with).

  • If I’ve heard Obama say anything that makes me think he could be a great statesman it’s these comments about israel. Pandering out of fear to the bellicose Likudniks in this country is very much the style of our bought and paid for Congress, not to mention the Decider-in-Chief’s lapdog approach to anything Israel wants. I’m sure Obama has made some powerful enemies with his comments, but the reality based world thanks him. I certainly do.

  • As for the divisive phenomenon: Anytime anyone makes a sincere and substantive, well thought out statement regarding any policy domain, status quo resistance is what actually causes the divisiveness. Obstructionists to positive change are the true divisive members of our bodypolitik, and I just hope we have had enough social development as a nation to understand the foolduggery of superficial imagry being dusted up by pols of yesteryear inorder to smear Mr. Obama and his vision of our nation’s future as we find ourselves in the early moments of the 21st century. Go Obama! -Kevo

  • Unafraid to say what needs to be said in the face of the people who know it, but don’t want to hear it.

    Furious – The most obvious example of this is the one that’s right in front of our faces: He won’t pander to the progressives by talking about how he’s going to fight Republicans at every turn and nail Bush for all his crimes, and that’s one reason they assume he’s not liberal. Not that Hillary is that aggressive either, but she sure does talk a lot about fighting Republicans for someone who’s done little actually fighting during their seven years in the Senate. Sure, Obama hasn’t shown a big fight either, but that’s her sales pitch; not his.

    She talks like a liberal, but acts like a centrist; which is what centrists do. He talks like a centrist, but is positioned to be fairly liberal. And while that’s surely cost him some liberal support during the primaries, he won’t have to tack back to the right during the general election like Hillary would have. He can deliver basically the same sales pitch to any audience and doesn’t have to apologize for anything. That’s actually part of his sales pitch and we’re lucky to have someone so smart that they realize it. Pandering is one of the biggest vote killers.

  • There was a time when we didn’t know much about Obama beyond the inspiring speeches, and into the vacuum of what we didn’t know, I think many of us projected our hopes for what he might be. To an extent, many preferred the devil they didn”t know over the devils they knew all too well.

    As this campaign has progressed, however, I find myself being constantly impressed by little things Obama has done — not so much policy issues but tactical moves. Clinton wears her intelligence and her political acumen on her sleeve; this guy is every bit as smart and politically savvy, but he’s smoother and more subtle. It’s an interesting combination and he’s used it well so far.

  • I’m sure Obama has made some powerful enemies with his comments,

    Rich – If this goes down how I think it will, I’d say those people just made a powerful enemy in Obama. While my predictions aren’t always accurate, they’re not far off. Obama has made too many good calls for this to be dumb luck or guesswork. He really knows what he’s doing. And it’s not difficult. We all knew what to do. Finally we have a politician willing to do it.

    Republicans and their ilk have been running on smoke & mirrors for so long they don’t even know how the game really works. And now that we have a presidential nominee willing to tell these emperors they have no clothes, they’ll be the ones running away. Sure, they’ll never admit defeat, but they won’t have to. Everyone will know it. And best of all, after the disaster Bush has created for us, the Powers That Be will allow it to happen. Even the monied interests have realized that Republicans were bad for business.

  • This guy (Obama) is supposed to be a rhetorical marvel?

    The point may be good, but he sounds like Boy George II trying to make it.

    Are there actually American Jews who want to abandon Isreal? Hard to buy.

  • Lance @13 – What are you talking about? He didn’t say he was abandoning Israel. Did you read something we didn’t? His whole point is that there are folks here in America who are more aggressively anti-Palestinian than the people back in Israel, and how he’s not going to let our Israel policy be held hostage by those people. And that’s totally right. I firmly believe that Israel has a right to exist and defend itself, but our Israel policy is just nuts and hurts Israel. In Israel, people are allowed to discuss options that will get you branded an anti-Semite in our country. And that’s just screwed up.

    And just so you understand, the Pro-Likud people he’s talking about in our country are in league with the neo-cons. By saying he’ll stand up to them, he’s allowing Democrats to develop our own policy instead of being forced to adopt the neo-con approach. I seriously doubt that policy suggests we abandon Israel. Of course, I’m no expert in any of this, but that’s my take on what he’s saying.

  • Doctor Biobrain – I think what Lance was referring to was a part of Obama’s comment that referred to the far Left (including some American Jews) who believe it is OK for Palestinians to have a nationalist agenda, but not Jews, and so there shouldn’t even be a Jewish state. Obama was, I believe, stating that it has to be OK to criticize some Israeli government policies without abandoning our defence of the right of the Jewish state to existence and security.

  • There’s never been any of my advisors who questioned the need for us to provide Israel with security, with military aid, with economic aid.

    Good point.

    After all, who would question the need for us to provide Israel with security, with military aid, with economic aid? Certainly none of Obama’s advisors would. Although, I can’t understand why this is a good thing.

    Who would question the need for us to provide, oh, I don’t know, Indonesia with military and economic aid like we do? Neither do I understand why this is a good thing. I guess I just don’t get all of the imperial nuance.

    And who would question Obama’s foreign policy advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, about his roll in 1979 in aiding the Mujahideen in Afghanistan which helped give rise to Osama bin Laden?

    Perhaps someone that does not see how a military empire is congruent or compatible with a Constitutional Republic.

  • Lance #13: Are there actually American Jews who want to abandon Isreal? Hard to buy.

    i have jewish friends who are concerned about zionism and nationality per se. they obviously do not seek to abandon israel but they do find it in many ways contrary to the diasporic expression, if you will.

  • Lance @13 and Mike @ 15,

    If you had read CB’s posting slowly instead of skimming through it… The quote about some US Jews abandoning Israel *did not* come from Obama. It came from Mary Peretz, at TNR.

    And yes, I found it pretty convoluted myself, had to read it twice and still am not sure what he was trying to say (at least in the densest middle of the paragraph). Definitely not “a rhetorical marvel”

  • JKap (17) – There is not a single viable presidential candidate who will be against our imperialism. I agree that it’s less than ideal, but it’s such a part of this nation’s identity to be involved in everything, everywhere, that all we can hope for is to get someone who does it intelligently.

  • Thanks libra @19 – I was really confused about that, mainly because I can’t stand reading Peretz and couldn’t get passed the first sentence or so. Yeah, no wonder Lance thought Obama’s rhetorical skills were weak. Peretz is an idiot. I can’t believe anyone could attribute that nonsense to Obama.

    Thank god. I really thought I was missing something big here.

  • I can’t believe anyone could attribute that nonsense to Obama.

    It’s not nonsense. While it’s far from mainstream, and obviously very polarizing, the notion of a single, binational state comprising both Israel and Palestine isn’t just something that Qaddafi spouts. It’s very much part of the mix of discussion amongst Jewish Israelis (most, obviously, reject it, but plenty are willing to address it seriously). Here’s a synopsis of pro- and con- arguments:

    http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/archives/014775.html
    http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/2003/04/the_twostate_solution_the_prob.php

    And they get precisely at what Obama is saying — the arguments amongst actual Israelis stretch vast distances beyond what is even remotely permissible politically in the United States, and the sideboards that have been put upon our discussion here are a significant impediment to allowing our government to help with forging a final and just resolution to the conflict.

    (the Head Heeb archives, btw, are well worth your time if you’re interested in getting a more comprehensive and fair-minded picture of the full spectrum of debate amongst both Palestinians and Israelis)

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