For Dems, it’s game on — but is that good or bad?

After a year of campaigning, more than a dozen nationally-televised debates, many more forums, millions of dollars in advertising, one very big caucus, and one very big primary, it’s tempting to look forward to the end of the Democrats’ nominating process. It’s grueling for the candidates and their staffs, but it’s not a walk in the park for the rest of us, either.

But consider a different perspective. Isn’t it possible that this primary fight is a good thing, both for the candidates and the party? Digby raised a good point last night:

It’s going to be a rough and tumble campaign and we’ll all have to stay mad each other for a while, but it’s good for Democrats to play hard in the playoffs in preparation for the series. They need to be tested and vetted beyond Iowa and New Hampshire. And hey, people like me might even have our primary votes matter this time out!

I recently went back and watched some of the early Democratic debates and I was impressed with just how far the field has come. Each of them are better, sharper, and quicker than they were last summer, and that’s in large part because they’ve been pushing each other so hard.

Not only that, as long as the leading Dems don’t take the race in an ugly direction, I think the contest boosts the party’s chances in November. I know some Dems disagree with me about this, but I look at the top three — Obama, Clinton, and Edwards — as extremely talented candidates. The more they’re on the campaign trail and in the public eye, the more a) they make the party look better; and b) they make the GOP candidates look worse.

There are certain advantages to the party deciding on a nominee early on, but it appears that’s not going to happen. This need not be a discouraging development.

After Iowa and New Hampshire, the race looks to me to be about even — Obama and Clinton both have big wins under their belt, lots of money, impressive campaign operations, and strong support. Which one is the more likely nominee? Beats me; take your pick.

Josh Marshall argued:

Both sides have now had transcendent moments. Both sides can plot credible paths to the nomination. And both campaigns have found arguments that appear to resonate with sizable constituencies. It’s game on. And as someone who likes politics and loves his country I can’t see any reason not to be pleased with that result.

If Dems were running against a Republican incumbent, this may be less encouraging. Dems would need to save their resources for a fight against a GOP machine. But that’s not the case this year — the Republicans’ race is at least as wide open as the Dems’. (And not having a clear Democratic nominee keeps the GOP guessing about where to focus their hatred.)

There’s just one catch — if one (or more) of the Dems goes very negative, all the benefits of a drawn out process disappear. Swopa argued today, “The challenge for both Clinton and Obama over the next few weeks will be to present themselves as the best possible standard-bearer for the Democratic party without treating each other like an enemy. Because if they do that, they’ll just be shooting themselves in the foot.”

Agreed. The party is putting its best foot (feet?) forward with a competitive contest with terrific candidates. As long as they don’t screw it up, the party will benefit in the long run.

I would be thrilled with any of our top three. I have major problems with all of them, and things I love about each one I wish the other two could match, but I like them all, which is why I’ve stayed out of the primary fight. I don’t care who the nominee is. I’m more interested in combatting the usual nonsense tossed at Dems by the media. So, most of my effort is spent zipping off angry letters to ombudsmen about investigative reports on Hillary’s cleavage, Edwards haircut, or Obama’s terrorist upbringing. No matter who wins, they will be savaged by the right wing megaphone, and therefore the punditry, and therefore mainstream journalists, and it’s got to stop.

  • I agree, “not having a clear Democratic nominee keeps the GOP guessing about where to focus their hatred”. That emotion really seems to be what motivates a lot of them, and if they can’t focus it on a Dem, maybe that will leave more to focus on their Republican opponents. The more mud they throw at each other, the less credible they’ll seem when they start throwing it at us.

  • If you want to see more advantage, look how little the nominating contest has done for the Republican’ts. F. Thompson has flopped, Guiliani has introduced himself to America and they don’t like what they see, Romney has tried to buy his way to the Presidency and dispite the claims that money is distorting the process, he’s crashing, Ron Paul has liberated the libertarian wing of the Party for all to see their unworldiness, and Huckabee has displayed to the Theocratic Wing the contempt they are held in by the pundits and elite of “their” party.

    As for Swopa, I think the phrase would be “They are shooting each other in the foot.”

    Nope, this extended primary season is all to the good, if for no other reason than to humble Iowa and New Hampshire.

  • I think in a primary, the most important thing is to vote your conscience. Considering whether this primary contest is going good or bad is irrelevant to me. I just want my candidate to win because I believe they’re the best of all the candidates. When my candidate doesn’t do well, it’s just bad. When they do good, well….it’s good.

  • Wouldn’t it be great if the all the Democratic candidates could go on tour together. Call it the Power to the People Tour for America complete with speeches, rallies. town hall meetings and debates about how best to move this country to a place where we all agree to the basic principle that everyone does better when everyone does better? Wouldn’t it be great if the whole country saw the Democartic primary not as a competitoin between them as candidates, but a powerful opportunity to build a progressive democracy?

  • My impression from the MSM that Hillary’s misting up was from a comment “How do you get going on.” but now I’m hearing that it was in response to a question about her hair. Anybody know the facts?

  • I too am gratified the campaigning will go on and no one has been ordained our leader yet. Like memekiller, I am profoundly grateful with the caliber of candidates. Too bad we can’t throw the top three in a blender and remove the pits, producing the perfect candidate. But then mine wouldn’t be yours….

    And again the question: is it better to dig out problems now or wait for the Republicans to do it? It does seem that preparing for battle knowing the terrain is better.

  • Like it or not:
    Politics is a blood sport.
    Big Dog showed that last night.
    If one side throws sucker punches the other side has a right and a duty to tell him where to shove his cigar.
    If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen.

    It’s good to see Obama’s subalterns fighting back now.
    Keep the main man out of the way and go at these Clinton freaks until they really have something to cry about:

    http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_campaign_cochair_questions_hillarys_tears.php

    From the comment thread in the above article:

    What was she crying about? No public tears about Bill’s dalliances with other women. No public tears about Katrina or Iraq. She cried about her hair!
    At least she has that in common with Edwards.

    Well put.

    Wait until S. Carolina folks…
    She is going to get her privileged ass kicked to hell.
    How much you want to bet she don’t cry then?

  • Nope, this extended primary season is all to the good, if for no other reason than to humble Iowa and New Hampshire.

    If you can call from now to February 5th “extended”.

  • You were right on with this piece, insightful and a good read right up until you did what the MSM and TPM do and that is totally leave Edwards out of the equation. (25/25/18) Makes it clear that no one has a majority of delegates and that Edwards influence is very much alive and especially if Obama and Clinton are tied they will have to make concessions to get Edwards delegates. I think the two of them will begin to take on more of Edwards’ talking points as their own. He clearly is the only candidate representing any “real” change. It is unfair of you to always list only Obama and Clinton as the only two in the race without even mentioning Edwards. I wish you would make a point to go against the tactics of the MSM to exclude Edwards in any discussion and to include his name every time you mention the other two. It won’t hurt I promise.

  • I am not sure that going negative at this point is really a bad thing…

    After all, once the eventual nominee comes out, the republifucks are going to be pulling swiftboats out as fast as they can. It’s not necessarily a bad thing to have all of the dirty laundry aired before the primaries are done. If there is no new dirt to dig up, then it is going to be hard for the republifuck wing to come up with attacks which haven’t already been heavily covered by the press– which, naturally, will send the press to sleep with the boredom of it (they really do prefer fresh meat in their diet).

    And, frankly, at this point I think it is inevitable. Civility may be slightly restored for a few days since Clinton regained the peak, but, if she faces one more loss, watch the gloves come off again…

  • RacerX #2: an excellent point that the Republicans may discredit themselves long before the general election. However, as effective as going negative was for Hilary in NH, I have to suspect that the same thing may be true of the Democrats. We’ve already had rumors of 527 dirty politics; if the race stays close Obama and Hilary may also discredit each other long before the general and do the Republicans’ work for them.

  • The top three candidates may indeed all be very “talented.” Problem is, talent doesn’t make a candidate electable. The multiple catastrophes Bush is leaving behind should make 2008 the biggest year we Democrats have had since 1964, if not 1936. It’s our election to lose. Unfortunately, true to our nature, we’re finding a way to lose it. I deeply admire Hillary. I live in New York, so she’s my senator, and I’ve happily voted for her, twice. But she’s got the highest negative poll ratings of any candidate in either party. There are a LOT of people in winnable states who, unfair as it may be, simply detest her. McCain and Huckabee are both wildly out of step with mainstream America on the issues, yet both are engaging and telegenic. And as soon as the conventions are over, that’s all the media will be talking about. For us to put Hillary up against either of them is just plain reckless.

  • Look at the difference of vote for each party. We dems had about 50,000 more votes for our guys. That’s what I think is the biggest story of yesterday. I’m not a Hill guy but with all the crap she’s gotten since last week, I’m happy for her. And as long as they don’t kill each other it’s a good thing to have a longer primary.

  • There’s just one catch — if one (or more) of the Dems goes very negative, all the benefits of a drawn out process disappear.

    It’s too late for Hillary to avoid going negative; she’s there. She’s already sent Bill to attack Obama, as he did just a day ago calling his campaign the ‘biggest fairytale ever.’

    What does he have to say to go “very negative,” ‘Obama is a poopyhead?’

    I’ve never had much respect for Bill Clinton as a person, but now he’s lost any respect I had for him professionally.

    If he wants to further his spouse’s inaccurate claim to experience based on her proximity to him, the he should also be pushing for Monica to become Secretary of the Interior.

    After all, once the eventual nominee comes out, the republifucks are going to be pulling swiftboats out as fast as they can. -Castor Troy

    I agree the Republicans will pull out all the stops when campaigning against whomever wins the Democratic nomination. It would probably help if they weren’t able to use the words of previous candidates and other members of the Democratic party against them.

    And, frankly, at this point I think it is inevitable. Civility may be slightly restored for a few days since Clinton regained the peak, but, if she faces one more loss, watch the gloves come off again… -Castor Troy

    No doubt. Anyone without preferential blinders on can see who among the contenders is truly classless.

  • I agree with all the posts about the positive facts of extending the primary process. It will give our guys and gal more time to ENGAGE MORE VOTERS in the process.

  • David W. said: “If you can call from now to February 5th “extended”?”

    Compared to five days, yes.

    Compared to the time it ought to be, no.

  • ***dale*** It really wasn’t in response to anything in particular, she just became overwhelmed.
    Right now Obama has got all the dem senators in the senate chanting, “yes we can…yes we can…yes we can”… to try to end the republican obstructionism of preventing any democratic legislation from getting through. Bet that goes over well. Reality…what a concept.
    The dem election experience is so idealistic and encouraging. I love it that we don’t have people like Coulter, Malkin, Limbaugh, Hannity…it’s an endless list of hate filled members of the republican party. Notice how little the Bush administration is being mentioned in all of this. It’s so bad that everyone is trying to pretend it’s not there.

    The Edwards media blackout is unprecedented that they are trying to pretend he doesn’t exist…just like Kucinich. It’s hard for Obama and Clinton to find differences of any major importance between them so any negativity from their campaigns would have to be minimal.
    After the horrors of Bush and the present GOP field being more of the same, dems can only appear positive even when being negative.

    The neocons still have an ace in the hole…orchestrated catastrophe. Bush is assassinated and Cheney declares martial law. Why didn’t we impeach when we had the chance? It’s horrible to live in fear of this president…of what he might do next. Cowardly dems looking for an election to save them rather than having the guts to deal with what is…what is now. Using this election process to avoid accountability. Avoiding conflict is not the same as being optimistic.

  • Please, please, please Dem candidates make this race about revolting against the Bush years and not about some weird YouTube moments. The public has to be constantly reminded that no matter what the Republicans say or do on the campaign trail and what they grind out of their smear machines, they are still the party of Bush and the reason this country is such a mess right now. Hang every damn Bushist screw up on all of them because the party’s complicity is what’s tearing this nation down.

    Sure you’ll get your jabs in on each other, but give the nation a reason to vote for you and not just against the other person.

  • As for going negative, one of my misgivings about Obama has always been whether his campaign of hope handcuffs him. Democrats have a knack for unilaterally disarming and taking the high road, and I have yet to see it pay off. What’s worse, by running such a campaign, you then open yourself up to attacks of hypocrisy for the slightest infraction. Republicans are supposed to attack, but you claimed to rise above it! And of course, to be objective an nonpartisan, you have to reflexively insist whatever Obama gets attacked for is “just as bad”, no matter how much more ethical he is because it’s always safer to by cynical and wrong than right but naive.

    So, if Obama wins, I hope Hillary savages him first to see how he handles it. I know Hillary can, yet her “high negatives” are a result of those years of savagery. She doesn’t come off cold and calculating to me, but it doesn’t matter. She may have survived the 90’s scandalmongering, but that’s the scar it left her with. But, Obama is the only Dem the media can like, and he is inspiring. In some ways, I think his “hope” is all we need to win.

    But remember, Bill got savaged worse than anybody and became the “comeback kid”. Part of the way he did it was by co-opting other candidate’s signature issues — balancing the budget, Clinton’s greatest achievement, was Tsongas’s, and I believe even healthcare reform was the main issue of some other Democratic candidate that forced Bill to come out with his own. Clinton’s Presidency was very much shaped by the primaries.

  • Doubtful: “It’s too late for Hillary to avoid going negative; she’s there. She’s already sent Bill to attack Obama, as he did just a day ago calling his campaign the ‘biggest fairytale ever.’

    What does he have to say to go “very negative,” ‘Obama is a poopyhead?’ ”

    Dang, I hardly think that constitutes going “negative” at least by GOP standards. Swiftboating John Kerry was negative. Attacking Max Cleland’s commitment to US security was negative. If Obama can’t take Bill’s criticism we’ll be sunk if he makes it to the general election.

  • I think the longer the nomination process goes out the better it is. They each get more practice at honing their arguments, they get feild tested. The more different voices and ideas we, the public hear, the better. I’m still in Edwards camp, but have great respect for the things that Kuchinich and Richardson and yes even Gravel have to say.( I like his plan to help citizens help write laws. Much better citizens than PACs and other corporate interests.)

    I love the idea put forth by Tom @#5.

  • Doubtful @ 15:

    It’s too late for Hillary to avoid going negative; she’s there. She’s already sent Bill to attack Obama, as he did just a day ago calling his campaign the ‘biggest fairytale ever.’ I’ve never had much respect for Bill Clinton as a person, but now he’s lost any respect I had for him professionally.

    Glad someone else sees the importance of this…

    Imagine that, a black kid dreams of being president some day and old Stain-maker comes and says in so many ways:

    Know your place boys and girls.
    This ain’t your fairy tale.
    This is my wife’s fairy tale.

    That’s why Jesse Jackson Jr. had to come out an say what he did:

    http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_campaign_cochair_questions_hillarys_tears.php

    There is a coded message in there…
    And here’s what it says: THIS IS ABOUT RACE AND PRIVILEGE NOW.

    And he is right.
    The black vote just abandoned Hillary en masse.
    Good luck in the general election honey…
    Crying ain’t going to bring them back.

  • RE: New Hampshire Primary Voter Fraud

    Hillary LOST the paper ballot count but WON the optical scan ballot count. Obama WON the paper ballot count but LOST the optical scan ballot count. The machine tabulated votes were flipped to favor Clinton. See for yourself.

    http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_ron_corv_080109_new_hampshire_electi.htm

    http://ronrox.com/paulstats.php?party=DEMOCRATS

    Also, “The head clerk of the New Hampshire town of Sutton has been forced to admit that Ron Paul received 31 votes yet when the final amount was transferred to a summary sheet and sent out to the media, the total was listed as zero. The fiasco throws the entire primary into doubt and could lead to a re-count.”

    Voter fraud.

  • If Obama can’t take Bill’s criticism we’ll be sunk if he makes it to the general election. -AK Liberal

    To begin with, my problem with Bill’s tirade have nothing to do with Obama’s ability to ‘take it.’ I think he’s shown he can handle all manner of mudslinging.

    Calling someone’s candidacy a ‘fairytale,’ however is not a criticism. If Bill Clinton had said ‘Obama’s health plan doesn’t work,’ that’s a criticism; instead he’s being childish and insulting.

    Do I think it was as negative as the Swiftboat attacks against Kerry? Not necessarily, but Bill still carries a lot of weight, and I think this sort of angry frustration is beneath him. Well, I thought it was.

    His assertion that Obama’s campaign is a ‘fairytale’ is just an extension of Hillary’s concept of ‘false hope,’ which is annoying to me because it says that the expectations of the people are unrealistic.

    Should Obama win the nomination, Bill would be a powerful ally, but the more Bill acts like he’s five years old and someone just took his ball away, the less useful he becomes.

    Hopefully the win in NH will stop the Clintons from becoming so negative, because if they’d have lost, I believe they would’ve pulled out all the stops.

  • I share this view. A long, high-quality primary campaign with a disciplined focus on presenting each candidate as the strongest for November, with slime tactics being rejected by the party faithful loudly and explicitly, would not only make the Democrats stronger – it would benefit our politics as a whole.

  • So far I say this primary has been good for us. More people are paying attention and feeling genuine passion about this election than I have ever seen. THAT is a GOOD thing no matter the result. Apathy has been the killer of American politics for decades. No longer. People are waking up!

  • “Each of them are…..” for goodness sake how about learning to write grammatically correct and logical English one of these days. My 6th grade son does make such mistakes. The error subverts the point you are making–a point about each individual, singular.

    sheesh

  • Tamalak said, “Hillary supporters, what am I missing?”

    You’re missing what happens after the election – the governing part.

    I’m not a Clinton supporter, although after the past week I’m leaning in that direction. First, because I think she will be elected with a larger percentage and, second, because she has concentrated on the governing part.

    First, the electibility. We already know almost everything that can be thrown at Sen. Clinton. There is a segment that has been so vicious to her for the past 15 or so years, that’s I don’t think there is even anything left that they can make up that would stick. Go listen to Kathleen Hall Jamieson with Bill Moyers (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/01042008/watch.html) Yes, her negatives are high-ish, but no more so than many, many other politicians. And, they seem to be static.

    Sen. Obama, OTOH, is so new to national politics that he is a blank slate. These primaries are the most difficult races he has yet run. Who knows with the Rove/Atwater branch will either dig up, twist, or just make up? So his negatives have no where to go but up and how high – who knows. That is certainly not to slam him, we’ve just sung this song before.

    Governing. From what I can see, Sen. Clinton has spent her time in the Senate practicing good governance. Her work with the Armed Services Committee has helped her develop what I hear are good relationships with the military leadership, unlike some of our former presidents, and this will be a huge help in extricating ourselves from Iraq. Also a huge help when the new president faces whatever challenge is thrown at us. Go look at her various committees and her work on them http://clinton.senate.gov/senate/committees/index.cfm Maybe I’m impressed with her work on the committees because the ones she is on are important to me (Environment and Public Works; Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; Aging)

    Sen. Obama, OTOH, I don’t know. I see that he sits on some very important committees that do some fine work, but I don’t know about his activities on them. I only really have heard about the subcommittee he chairs that has not met. I am concerned that he is more interested in running than governing at this point Again, this is not a slam, but an observation.

    This is getting long, but I’ll make a final point. Sen. Clinton is a brilliant woman who has spent a lifetime in public service, learning as she went, and working towards good governance. Certainly she has made errors along the way, who hasn’t, but overall, she has been on the right track. The “calculating, ambitious, etc” memes have all been stuck on her starting back with the Arkansas Project of Scaife and, because that went on for so long, have been accepted by people too young to remember when that wasn’t part of the conversation. Let the scales slip from your eyes and really look at the history.

    Sen. Obama is an exceptionally intelligent, fine man, and, I think, will do extraordinary work, but I don’t know how he will govern. Our country is facing a myriad of serious problems that must be dealt with right away. I don’t know how he will handle it , but I do think I can trust Sen. Clinton to do the right thing at least 95% of the time.

    I want someone to run the country competently, I’m not voting for a best friend.

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