Giuliani campaign vows to lie with impunity

Following up on this week’s reports about Rudy Giuliani’s patently false healthcare claims, the Giuliani campaign has responded to the criticism. Sort of.

If you’re just joining us, Giuliani, in his latest radio ad, tells voters, “I had prostate cancer, five, six years ago. My chance of surviving prostate cancer, and thank God I was cured of it, in the United States, 82%. My chances of surviving prostate cancer in England, only 44% under socialized medicine.”

The claim is demonstrably false. Neutral fact-checkers have blasted Giuliani’s dishonest ad — the WaPo awarded the ad “four Pinocchios” — and the Annenberg Public Policy Center tore it apart.

We tracked down the source of that number, which turns out to be the result of bad math by a Giuliani campaign adviser, who admits to us that his figure isn’t “technically” a survival rate at all. Furthermore, the co-author of the study on which Giuliani’s man based his calculations tells us his work is being misused, and that the 44 percent figure is both wrong and “misleading.” A spokesperson for the lead author also calls the figures “incorrect survival statistics.”

It’s true that official survival rates for prostate cancer are higher in the U.S. than in England, but the difference is not nearly as high as Giuliani claims. And even so, the higher survival rates in the U.S. may simply reflect more aggressive diagnosing of non-lethal cancers, according to the American Cancer Society.

Actually, men with prostate cancer are more likely to die sooner if they don’t have health insurance, according to a recent study published in one of the American Medical Association’s journals. Giuliani doesn’t mention that.

Everything about the ad is bogus. The mortality rates from prostate cancer are almost the same in America and Britain. Dems aren’t proposing a socialized system. As Ezra noted, Giuliani’s cancer was treated through taxpayer-financed healthcare, using a surgery developed under a socialized system.

The good news is, Giuliani’s campaign has heard the criticism. The bad news is, they couldn’t care less about whether they’re lying or not.

The NYT, which also did a little fact-checking today, reported:

Asked if Mr. Giuliani would continue to repeat the statistic, and if the advertisement would continue to run, [Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for Giuliani] responded by e-mail: “Yes. We will.”

Of course they will.

One likes to think there are certain political norms. If a campaign is going to run an ad, first they make sure that it’s at least close to the truth. If a candidate and his or her team try and get away with a lie, and get caught, they pull the ad and replace it with something else. The campaign takes some heat for trying to sucker the public, but the story eventually fades.

Except those norms aren’t real at all. Giuliani and his campaign lied. They know they lied. They know they got caught lying. Are they going to backpedal? Not even a little.

Why? Because the Giuliani gang assumes they’ll get away with it. Paul Krugman challenged political reporters covering the campaigns to take this as seriously as, say, haircuts and cackles. But therein lies the point: Giuliani and his team are pretty confident that’ll never happen.

Greg Sargent hammered this point home.

Memo to media: Rudy and his campaign think you’re a bunch of chumps. They have nothing but complete contempt for the truth and for everything that purportedly led you all to become journalists. Maybe it’s time to get serious about what this guy is up to.

Now, it’s fair to say that several news outlets — ABC, WaPo, NYT, among others — have published reports noting that Giuliani’s claim is wrong. And that’s good — as a first step. But now that the campaign has pledged to keep running a bogus claim anyway, the obvious thing for the media to do is start following up. That might include, say, asking Giuliani about it while he’s campaigning. Maybe mentioning it on shows like Hardball. Perhaps noting that this seems to be part of a pattern with Giuliani, who has trouble with the truth.

In other words, make the fact that Giuliani got caught lying a campaign issue, like Edwards’ hair or Clinton’s laugh, only with substance this time.

I know, I know, it’s unlikely. But a guy can dream….

“A lie repeated often enough becomes truth.” – Lenin

  • Rudi G. is more of a tyrant that Bush, if that is possible. Another worthless lying GOP thug, what else is new under the sun?

  • I guess the media and the bubble-brains are so busy dissecting who looks, sounds and smells presidential that it doesn’t occur to them that fact-checking ALL of the contenders might end up raising the quality of the information to which we are subjected. And I don’t mean in a “gotcha” kind of way, but in a “this is what the ad says and this is what’s correct and what isn’t.” Olbermann could do a Truth Squad to great effect, I think.

    Where the Dems could make a dent is in doing some of their own ads, asking the viewer if a man who is confronted with his lies, who says through a staff member that he has every intention of continuing to tell those lies, is the kind of person we want leading the country. Ask the viewer if they really want a president who has so little respect for the intelligence of the voters – because that’s really what this is – disrespect. It’s like confronting your teenager with the fact that he lied to you, and having him look you in the eye and say, “Yeah, so what? I’ll keep doing it if I want – what are you gonna do about it?”

    I had an e-mail from the Edwards campaign with their mock up of a scary newspaper – the headline of which was, “Giuliani Elected in Historic Landslide,” which was scary enough, but the companion headline, below the fold, was, “VP-Elect Jeb Bush Continues Family Tradition,” which really did scare me.

  • A noun, a verb, 911, and now bogus health information. There is a word for Mr. Giuliani’s antics. If he continues in this vain, he will no doubt end up being just another, putz! -Kevo

  • Does anyone really expect the same press that couldn’t be bothered to Google the names of the supposed signatories of the Niger yellowcake document to actually fact check any of our putative presidents?

    If Hillary Clinton was to flash her underwear while getting out of a car there would be fifty times as much written about that then there has been written about her voting record or her policy positions.

    Obama got more press for his appearance in a pair of swim trunks than he’s received for his healthcare plan.

    More words were written about Edward’s haircuts than about his concerns about income disparity.

    Our media has much to be modest about.

  • The media ought to assume that if Giuliani knows it’s a misstatement but continues to use it there might be other things he is lying about as well. Then, gosh, maybe they should check some of those other things.

    I’m not holding my breath.

  • . . . Giuliani’s campaign has heard the criticism. The bad news is, they couldn’t care less about whether they’re lying or not.

    “News.” You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. A half-century-plus old lifestyle choice to be a chronic liar is definitely olds, not news.

  • OK, so Giuliani got caught red handed. We’re all feeling really great about it, not that it will do any good. Somerby has convinced me of that. But every blog I read says the survival rates are almost the same but no one tells us what they actually are.
    Well? Tell us already. I want to know.

  • “A lie repeated often enough becomes truth.” – Lenin

    Hence “liberal-biased media”… “tax cuts increase government revenues”… “government is the problem”… “global warming is a hoax” even the term “socialized medicine” to describe any universal health care plan (Senator Dole in his 96 campaign, flatly and repeatedly stated “… it didn’t work in the Soviet Union, and it won’t work here”… (Amazing).

    The problem is that the truth rarely gets repeated as often.

  • I LOVE the “Pinocchio” awards! What a useful tool in evaluating campaign claims! If only the Democrats had had this idea for the Swiftboaters… Everything that’s a lie goes on the “Pinocchio Award” list with a jeer and no explanation!

  • I think that the survival rate of those with insurance is very relevant. The obvious reason for this, coming from a man who hasn’t had insurance, EVER in my 36 years of life, is that without insurance, it is very hard to afford those annual checkups where prostate cancer can be detected in early stages and therefore treated. In fact, without insurance, most doctors won’t even take you on as a patient. I haven’t been to a doctor in 21 years. Thanks God for good genes and good health, but I certainly hope my financial situation improves as I enter my forties and need to get regular exams……

  • …If a campaign is going to run an ad, first they make sure that it’s at least close to the truth…

    Uh, I think you meant to say “If a democratic campaign is going to run an ad, first they make sure that it’s at least close to the truth”.

    Republicans quit worrying about what the truth was back when they got Clinton to pass the media de-regulation bill in 1996.

    Who cares what the truth is? We’re in the advertising business, if the truth mattered we’d be in real trouble!

    Note that Fox “News” has actually argued in court that telling lies is perfectly acceptable behavior for a news organization.

    During their appeal, FOX asserted that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media. They argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves. Fox attorneys did not dispute Akre’s claim that they pressured her to broadcast a false story, they simply maintained that it was their right to do so.

    http://newpatriot.org/2004/10/fox-news-unfair-unbalanced-and-fake.html

  • The bottom line is that the British live longer than we do in America. And the average Briton was found to be in much better health than the best insured Americans. Sad… And British children are not dieing, and going extinct. Like all of the American children are. What do you have to say to that. Wise Guys.

    For the first time in the history of America. The life expectancy of today’s children is less than that of their parents. This is catastrophic. And our infant mortality is equal to that of a third world country. Current U.S. adult life expectancy is down from #1 to #42. And dropping fast. These facts are what is known as EXTINCTION! indicators. These are the early signs of the final phase of the EXTINCTION of the American people.

    You have to take the profit motive out of health care delivery. The profit motive does not work with health care. Or any other essential public service like police, and fire. The sooner everyone faces this truth. The sooner you will be able to adopt a real solution to the problem. The days of paying for health care out of pocket are at an end. Just like the mob days of paying for protection out of pocket came to an end.

    HR 676 is the way to go. Single payer Universal National Health Care For All. Medicare for all. Accept no substitutes. The sooner you face this. The sooner you begin to heal the Cancer of private for profit medicine that is destroying this entire society. Other developed countries realized this years ago. It’s a no-brainer now. See sickocure.org

    Money, greed, and the profit motive has just decimated health care in America. And killed, and injured millions needlessly. Just for profit. But that is what large amounts of money, greed, and a lust for power always does. No one is immune from this corrupting power. The smart ones know this. And avoid letting them-self be put in compromising positions. But that is easier said. Than done. And very few succeed.

    Most in the US go into medicine primarily to become wealthy. That is who the medical schools mostly choose. Most of the medical schools faculty are in bed with the drug companies, and others. And like the story of Dr. Faustus. They end up selling their soles. One compromise at a time. Until Lucifer owns them.

    In medicine. Compromised care means. Injury, disability, and death. It’s sad really. But HR 676 can fix this disgrace. Like it has in other developed countries. The only question is. How many more millions will be hurt, injured, and killed. And how many more of your children will die before their time. Before we fix this disgrace of private for profit health care in America.

    I realize there will be a few people that have what they believe is good health care coverage. Who will want to opt out of a single payer system like HR 676. But let me remind you we rank # 37 in quality of health care for all. Down from #1. Never the less. A few opting out is not a problem. As long as all other Americans are automatically covered at birth through life. Unless they choose to opt out of HR 676. The government takes out 1.4% from your paycheck now for Medicare. All they have to do is substitute for HR 676 what they now take out of your paychecks for private health insurance. Remember, we already spend more on health care than any other country in the world. Right Now. We are being ripped off. And raped.

    The SCHIP program is a desperately needed program for Americas children. But with the impending EXTINCTION of Americas children. And their current catastrophic health care condition. SCHIP needs to be extended to cover all of Americas children, immediately. Parents should have no hesitations, or financial worries about seeking medical care for their children. Whenever they have any concerns about their children’s health. Especially in the richest country in the world. I would submit that any President, or politician that fails to do this for the children. Betrays their most solemn oath to protect the American people. Especially when you consider that all other developed countries have done this. And that we are the richest country in the world.

    So get on it America. Get it done. You have been doing great over the past several months. Keep it up. And step it up. You have to force it, and take it. It’s the right fight, and the right thing to do. Now is the time… Take no prisoners.

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