Giuliani expands his health-care lie, but starts to draw scrutiny

As has been well documented this week, Rudy Giuliani’s latest radio ad includes a patently false claim about healthcare. Confronted with reality, the campaign vowed to keep lying.

And sure enough, that’s exactly what the former mayor is doing. In fact, Giuliani isn’t just repeating his lie about cancer rates, he’s expanding on it. From Giuliani’s latest appearance on Fox News:

GIULIANI: I don’t want to see us ruin our health care system the way I believe Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama and John Edwards want to do with socialized medicine. And make no mistake about it, they want to do socialized medicine. The chance of a man surviving prostate cancer in the United States is somewhere, when I was doing it, 82, 84 percent. It’s probably over 90 percent now. In socialized medicine countries, some of them can be less than 50 percent.

CAVUTO: And why is that? Because there’s a delay in care or —

GIULIANI: And the same thing is true, by the way — my wife will explain this to you in better, more detail than I can, because she has all these statistics — the same thing is true with women with breast cancer. The chance of surviving in the United States for a woman much greater than in France or in England or in Canada or in Cuba where Michael Moore would like us all to go for health care. (Laughs.)

There isn’t an accurate statement here at all. Literally, nothing. He starts by lying about Dems, then lies about prostate cancer survival rates, and wraps it up with a lie about breast cancer survival rates. The reality is the five-year relative survival rate for breast cancer in the U.S. is 89%. In Canada, it’s 86%. In England, it’s 81%.

The good news is, some media figures are starting to notice that the Republican frontrunner has an honesty problem.

Consider today’s column from the WaPo’s Eugene Robinson:

Even Rudy Giuliani would acknowledge that he can be prickly. Now, it seems, the tough-talking former mayor is growing estranged from empirical fact. […]

What I don’t want is another president who refuses to let the facts get in the way of a good story.

And Salon’s Joe Conason:

The former New York mayor did survive prostate cancer, but otherwise his statistical claims were not difficult to debunk, as reporters for the New York Times, the Washington Post, MSNBC and other news outlets quickly discovered. Giuliani had picked up his numbers from an article in City Journal, a publication of the right-wing Manhattan Institute, and simply repeated them in public without bothering to check their validity. Unfortunately, they were essentially fraudulent figures, extrapolated inaccurately from old data (by a doctor who also advises the Giuliani campaign on healthcare).

And saving the best for last, there’s the inimitable Paul Krugman:

[H]ere’s what I don’t understand: Why isn’t Mr. Giuliani’s behavior here considered not just a case of bad policy analysis but a character issue?

For better or (mostly) for worse, political reporting is dominated by the search for the supposedly revealing incident, in which the candidate says or does something that reveals his true character. And this incident surely seems to fit the bill. […]

Yet what we actually have is the front-runner for the Republican nomination apparently basing his health-care views on something he read somewhere, which he believed without double-checking because it confirmed his prejudices.

By rights, then, Mr. Giuliani’s false claims about prostate cancer — which he has, by the way, continued to repeat, along with some fresh false claims about breast cancer — should be a major political scandal. As far as I can tell, however, they aren’t being treated that way.

To be fair, there has been some news coverage of the prostate affair. But it’s only a tiny fraction of the coverage received by Hillary’s laugh and John Edwards’s haircut.

And much of the coverage seems weirdly diffident. Memo to editors: If a candidate says something completely false, it’s not “in dispute.” It’s not the case that “Democrats say” they’re not advocating British-style socialized medicine; they aren’t.

The fact is that the prostate affair is part of a pattern: Mr. Giuliani has a habit of saying things, on issues that range from health care to national security, that are demonstrably untrue. And the American people have a right to know that.

A few columns like this one, and they will.

Steve: “A few columns like this one, and they will.”

No, they won’t. You quoted a few liberal columnists. This a isn’t a story until the chattering classses chatter about it – and they aren’t. Cause he’s a reThuglican and we all just know they don’t have any moral issues.

  • “What I don’t want is another president who refuses to let the facts get in the way of a good story.”

    The last republican president who actually paid attention to facts was, to my memory, Nixon. Wow. Modern republicanism is so bad that they actually make Nixon look honorable (only in comparison).

  • Alas, I think wvng has it exactly right. Until Tweety, Pumpkinhead, Mistah Kurtz and the other mainstream asshats make it kosher, Rudy’s serial falsehoods will remain a storyline of the “rabid lefty moonbats.”

    This is one of those situations where I wonder how it would play out from the other side–if Kucinich, say, or Gravel started talking about how the average lifespan in France is 15 years longer than it is here. In announcing the liberal inaccuracy, would the punditariat be hoist on its own fair and balanced petard and acknowledge Giuliani’s? I doubt it, but it would be interesting to track.

  • Why didn’t Joodee just call Roodee? Or is that only when Roodee is on a national forum and not an idiots forum like Faux?

  • For Republicans, it doesn’t seem to matter what’s right or wrong, what’s true or false, what’s good or bad for the country, but only what it takes to win. Nothing matters except winning. Do whatever it takes, whatever you can get away with, to win.

    One has to ask after seven years of Bush & Co. whether political parties serve America anymore, or simply serve themselves. There has to be a better way than this.

  • What the Democrats have to do is simple, really. They need to draw clear parallels between Rudy – who is already telling lies and manipulating facts in order to advance his agenda – and Bush, whose list of lies and manipulated facts is very, very long.

    You know, “Today, Rudy Giuliani is lying about the survival rates from prostate and breast cancer as a way of arguing against reforming the health care system, and he’s lying about what the Democrats are proposing to do about it, conflating a single-payer plan – like Medicare, for example – with so-called “national” health care, which is not what is being proposed by any Democrat. If this seems like a familiar tactic, it’s because his fellow Republican, and the current President of the United States, has spent the last 7 years twisting the truth, manipulating the facts and intelligence, and just saying things he wished were so, in order to sell the American people on his agenda – one that has cost thousands of lives and billions of dollars. The same president who misrepresented the details of the S-CHIP program in order to keep uninsured American children without a safety net. The American people need to ask themselves if that’s the kind of president they want, and they might want to worry about this: if Rudy is lying about the faxts on health care now, just imagine what he can do with foreign intelligence.”

    It’s so clear I can’t stand that it will never be said.

  • We need to get the government out of health care. Kids have health care. The needy already have health care. The U.S. is not a socialist state. The government caused the problem with health care in America by over socializing medicine to the extent it is not completive, and we want to exacerbate the problem? U.S. Capitalism refers to an economic system in which the means of production are all owned and operated for profit, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy. It is the right of individuals and groups of individuals acting as “legal persons” or corporations to trade capital goods, labor, land and money (see finance and credit). See http://www.InteliOrg.com/

  • This is one of those situations where I wonder how it would play out from the other side–if Kucinich, say, or Gravel started talking about how the average lifespan in France is 15 years longer than it is here.

    Close, but you’re missing an important point. People on the right are always trying to paint equivalences between major Republicans and minor Democrats(or non-Democrats). You end up doing the same here…it would not be the same with Kucinich or Gravel because they are not the Democratic front runner, as Guiliani is on the Republican side.

  • How ironic. Isn’t this the party that tries to pass itself off as the party of “Christian/family values”? I never met a Christian so dishonest, or a family so disfunctional. We’ve come to expect such blatant disregard for the truth that Obama’s shorts are more newsworthy. What people don’t seem to get is these guys, while trying to get our votes, are nothing but contemptuous of us and our (once) great nation.

  • This is a classic example of political misinformation. Giuliani couldn’t give a rat’s behind about the health of U.S. citizens. He will lie, cherry pick facts and do everything he can to mislead the public to protect insurance industry interests…even if it results in people’s lives ending prematurely thanks to our dysfunctional health care mess of a system. This man has no business being president. I’m not buying what he is selling. Unfortunately, I bought the weapons of mass destruction from the last salesman. I won’t be fooled again.

  • Is there a difference between being wrong and lying to anyone anymore? If Guiliani’s facts about prostate cancer are so demostrably untrue why does this article quote breast cancer survival rates but not prostate cancer survival rates?

    “The reality is the five-year relative survival rate for breast cancer in the U.S. is 89%. In Canada, it’s 86%. In England, it’s 81%.”

    I would say the difference between 81% and 89% is significant. Why don’t we quote some facts from some purely socialist countries. Why don’t we see that information? It can’t hurt to have the facts right?

    So someone believes that government is not the solution to the problem, whether with healthcare or poverty, that person doesn’t care about other people? The level of hate your neighbor on display here seems to go far beyond the point where we just have different opinions. Kind of matches the “all republicans are Christian Evangelicals” baloney. I guess I won’t find much rational discourse here.

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