Giuliani gets the presidential ball rolling

Upon learning that former New York mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) has formed a [tag]president[/tag]ial [tag]exploratory committee[/tag], I immediately thought of Katon Dawson, the South Carolina Republican chairman, who told New York magazine in 2004 that Giuliani could compete in the Bible Belt because of work on 9/11. And then, Dawson started backpedaling.

Did he know that Pataki and [tag]Giuliani[/tag] have been staunch supporters of gun control? “Well,” he drawled, “we are all supporters of the NRA in South Carolina.”

Was he aware that both men supported a woman’s right to an abortion? Dawson paused. “That is a litmus test in the South. That would be plowing new ground in South Carolina.”

And how about their support of some gay rights? There was no pause now. “A big stumbling block,” he said.

Those are probably the two most important words surrounding Giuliani’s presidential ambitions: “stumbling block.” Indeed, he has lots of them.

We are, after all, talking about a man who’s not only far from the GOP mainstream on social issues (gays, guns, and abortion), Giuliani is also burdened by serious personal and professional scandals. He’s been married, for example, three times, after a series of brazen extramarital affairs (in 2000, Giuliani marched with his then-mistress in New York’s St. Patrick’s Day parade). For that matter, Giuliani tapped Bernie Kerik as his police commissioner and business partner, despite Kerik’s, shall we say, “issues.”

Granted, Giuliani remains a popular figure in GOP circles. A recent CNN poll found that he came out on top of the presidential field among Republican voters or independents who lean Republican with 29% support, followed by John McCain with 27%. But that’s Giuliani with a 9/11 halo over head, before rank-and-file Republicans learn a bit more about his background.

It seems literally impossible to me that Giuliani could win the GOP nomination.

I was talking a few months ago to a pretty major figure in the religious right about the [tag]2008[/tag] race and he told me there’s just no way for Giuliani to generate any support at all from the party’s base. Even if Giuliani were to completely reverse course and embrace positions that he’s always opposed, religious-right voters would ask how such a transformation is possible, and would no doubt prefer a candidate who’d been conservative all along.

A political scientist in South Carolina recently suggested Giuliani can “get away with” supporting legalized abortion and gay rights because of his credibility on national security issues. I don’t think so. As a rule, Republican primary voters look for ideological purity on all of the major issues — and we’re talking about a candidate who’s “wrong” about guns, abortion, marriage, and gays. That’s not a hurdle for a candidate to clear; that’s a brick wall for a candidate to run into.

Besides, I’d argue Giuliani’s credibility on national security issues is wide but thin. For his national security background to trump all of his other issues, Giuliani would’ve had to have prevented a terrorist attack personally, Jack-Bauer style. Indeed, it’s a delicate issue, but it’s probably worth remembering that Giuliani’s 9/11 halo is not without limits. By stepping up on 9/11 to reassure the public that the crisis was under control, Giuliani impressed nearly everyone. He demonstrated some leadership when people in New York City needed it. But does that make him an expert on national security policy? How, exactly?

Just as an aside, I’d also argue that McCain is the big winner if Giuliani does run. On the one hand, he may have to share the limelight with another national political celebrity, but on the other, McCain has had to work extra hard to convince the far-right GOP base that’s he’s conservative enough to be the Republican nominee. Giuliani makes that task much easier. In other words, with Giuliani in the field, McCain gets to say, “Compared to that guy, I’m Jesse Helms.”

If someone can make the case that Giuliani can get the [tag]nomination[/tag], I’m all ears, but I just don’t see it.

Give Rudy a chance! I wanna see how his “broken windows” approach will fight terrorism. Can you imagine??

  • the only real “creds” that Giuliani has vis-a-vis national security is the willingness to completely trample on civil liberties as an “end justifies the means”. This may be quite in character with the Republican party today – indeed maybe in the 90s he was a man ahead of his time. Regardless of his supposed social liberalism he definitely has the authoritarnian thing down – perhaps moreso than any other GOP candidate. It’ll be interesting to see if he abandons the social liberal thing and tacks rightward for the primaries.

  • The unholy unnatural alliance between the religious right and the corporatists is slowly unraveling. This will be apparent during the primaries because each group has recently been distrustful of the other’s support…

    Bush was able to fake-charm both sides with ease in 2000 & 2004, but I think it will be pretty entertaining to watch McCain, Guiliani try to go into full pander mode; I expect their fakeness will show.

  • Guiliani’s “national security” cred is that he didn’t step on his tongue on 9/11. So what? Let thefamilies of all those who are now dead or sick from “9/11 air” go after him for assuring people it was safe to work at Ground Zero and let’s see how Il Duce’s “cred” evaporates.

    Watching Guiliani go for the people who can’t stand Sam Brownback (who is also real close to announcing his campaign for 2008) and Brownback for those who can’t stand Guiliani, and then watch McCain try for the “values” people after we shred his reputation (or at least point out it should already be in shreds for anyone who cares to look), and the thugs are left with nada.

    I’d personally like to see McCain go for it, and to see Democrats go after him for his bullshit. By the time we get through with him, he could be wishing he’d died under torture in Hanoi so he could be a plaster hero forever.

    Let’s see: ditches wife #1 who stood with him through 7 years’ imprisonment, for a younger/richer model who could finance his fantasies…

    And it goes from there. Trust me, McCain is not unstoppable. I know a whole bunch of people who were big supporters in 2000, less so in 2004 when they saw him step aside with Kerry was swift-boated, who can’t stand the Big Pander he’s done since then. He’s only Mr. Straight Talk with the morons passing themselves off as “reporters.”

  • As we get farther away from Rudy’s 9/11 moment, and as other issues – Iraq, economy, corruption, health care – rise up the list of voter concerns, his one trump card looks less able to carry the entire game. He will start out with money and name ID, but then the oppo folks take over and start pounding his ample negatives. Rudy’s only hope is a strategy where, just as soon as that starts, he says “in 2006, the voters rejected below-the-belt attacks on candidates and that is what these smears against me are. we now know that voters are smarter than that – they want to hear about issues, not gossip. this election is too important: we need candidates who are more Situation Room and less Inside Edition. I’m disappointed that my opponents disagree. I think that insults the intelligence of the voters.” And he’ll have to pray it sticks and sticks immediately. Otherwise he is toast just a few feet past the starting line.

  • I think it’s cool that 29% of Republicans prefer Rudy because they are so upset with McCain’s campaign reforms. That’s it. They just don’t like someone suggesting that maybe corruption of Government is not a good thing.

    I love seeing my phrases kicked back. Yes, THE BASE of the Republican’t party is an unholy alliance of libertarians, theocratic reactionaries, true Christians, small government conservatives, and low tax chamber of commerce ‘conservatives’. The only group fairly served by the Bushites has be the last. Everybody else has either been kicked in the teeth or pretty much ignored.

    And now they are all fighting over who lost on the 7th and Rudy imagines he can sneak in and steal the nomination while they are ripping each other to shreds. Like a scene out Jurassic Park.

  • Isn’t about time they “plowed some new ground” in South Carolina and the South generally? It’s been a century and a half, after all, and they did lose, didn’t they? You know, “one nation, indivisible, with the liberty and justice for all”? Secession failed; it’s not a foreign country except in the world of illusions.

  • The GOP primary machine will shread Rudy into little bitty pieces. No way in hell he makes it out of the South Carolina Primary alive. The picture of him in drag alone will be the end of his aspirations. That deal flies in New York but Bubba and Ashley Redneck from backwater USA will not vote for a man in a dress.

    Rudy is a RINO and I would like to see him run. If given a choice between Rudy and a Dem I could possibly live with either. Details to come, of course. I agree with Ed. A little help pushing the inevitable acceptance of the liberal social agenda and bringing the South into the 21st century is overdue.

  • Giuliani is a very interesting politician. I think he is probably the most charismatic Republican candidate we’ve seen in a long time. I saw Giuliani speak when I was in graduate school (circa 1998), and despite a fairly hostile, left-leaning audience, he handled himself with aplomb. He deftly answered even the most confrontational questions without losing his cool. He reminded me a lot of Bill Clinton, and indeed, I think he might be the closest thing the GOP has to a Bill Clinton. He’s amiable, well-educated, and a good speaker.

    However, that persona is an interesting contrast to what I heard from an aunt-in-law who lives in New York City. She is a respected doctor at Columbia, and she follows city politics. She said that Giuliani ruled with an iron fist, and didn’t tolerate dissent (sound like anyone else we know?) I thought that was very interesting, since that is something that I’ve never heard in the press. Is it possible that Giuliani has made some political enemies that might come back to haunt him in a campaign?

    I think part of the reason Bill Clinton rose to prominence in 1992 was how well he handled himself in debates. Clinton is the most charismatic politician since at least JFK, IMHO. So while those of us who stomp around in the blogosphere will want substance, I think a large number of people might be entranced by Giuliani’s “stage presence”, if you will. It’s not just the 9/11 halo, because when I saw him speak in 1998, he was just as personable.

    I think what some pundits have said is accurate: Giuliani could probably win a national election, but not the Republican nomination. Perhaps he pulls a Joe Lieberman if he is dissed by the Republicans? Now THAT would make for some good political theatre. 🙂

  • I don’t think the R’s worry about the base as much as we all seem to think. They have the base Locked up, the base would rather burn bibles then mark ‘D’ on their ballot.

    Giuliani is a great pick, republicans know he can pick up a large portion of the independent vote. Bush has screwed up conservatism so bad, that I just don’t see a true conservative candidate picking up the independents. So if they want to keep the position of President, they are going to have to sway the independents.

    McCain is toast, as it gets closer we are going to start hearing/seeing all the pandering to the extreme factions and that is going to turn away independents.

    Giuliani looks strong on national security because he didn’t get shell shocked with “My Pet Goat’ when the shit hit the fan. He went into security mode when things went down. He is essentially went into “Jack-Bauer style”, not that he saved New York, but he made good solid decisions when they need to be made and kept the populace as calm as possible.

    That to me is part of national security.

  • ScottW, it’s not about locking the base up, it’s about motivating them to vote. I agree they are unlikely to vote for a Democrat (although exit polls in Virginia show Webb did well with self identified evangelicals), but I don’t think an adulterous supporter of gay rights and abortion will exactly have them streaming to the polls.

    Either way, Hillary already beat Guiliani and McCain in a poll.

  • Rudy will be a great addition to the Republican primaries. He’s the perfect wedge to split the debate and the party into their respective poles. “Maverick” McCain will retreat to the safe side of the Repubs rather small tent and show he is no maverick at all to the independents who will likely be the big deciding bloc in the next presidential election. Republican intolerance will be on display for all to see in this country, which has no time for this socially conservative revisionist crap anymore, and the Repubs will prove they are just an evangelical one-trick pony.

  • As a New Yorker, I’d like to echo Addison’s observation about Guiliani being unable to tolerate decent and wanting to rule with an iron fist. Yes, it does sound all too familiar. But unlike Bush whose privileged upbringing has made him quite comfortable with letter others do his dirty work, our former mayor did not hesitate to lash out and offend others in public. This will provide plenty of fuel for any negative campaign, whether by other Republicans or Democrats and whether covert or public, against Guiliani.
    And like Bush, Guliani did not shy away from making high-level appointments on the basis of patronage. Independents and others weary of incompetants like Michael Brown being appointed to high posts in the federal government will not be happy to hear about Guiliani’s record. The appointments of the sons of Liberal Party boss Raymond Harding, whose support was essential for getting Guiliani elected, to head a couple of city agencies should soon become common knowledge. One son, Russell, headed the city’s Housing Development Corporation for 3 1/2 years, in spite of never having worked in housing and never having completed a college degree. A six-figure salary was not enough for Russell, as he managed to charge at least $250,000 of personal expenses to the agency — everything from a $10,000+ trip to SE Asia and the Pacific, to the coffee and bagel which was often delivered to him at home in the morning — including mid-morning on September 11, 2001. I can’t remember when (if ever) Guiliani stopped defended this appointment, though it will be interesting to hear what he would have to say about Harding, who ultimately went to jail for possession of child pornography.
    In spite of Guliani’s moderate positions on immigration and many social issues, and his admirable leadership of the city during and immediately after the 9/11 crisis, I hope his candidacy for the presidency will in due time be squashed. If he were to rule the country with the secrecy and disrespect for differing views that marked his being mayor here, in many ways it would be like an extension of the Bush regime.

  • Rudy will isolate by far the majority block in the GOP, the Confederacy wing. Which ever of those two wins, the ‘baccy juice dribblin’ Confederacy or the multi-faceted non-Confederacy, the party won’t be able to put together a winning combination. The Confederacy will lose the immoral but free ride it’s been on since 1932, first with FDR and, since LBJ’s Civil Rights Act of 1964, with the GOP. Run, Rudy, run!

  • Well, as far as national security Giuliani didn’t prevent the 9/11 attacks he just responded to them pretty well.

    Maybe he and Newt can form a presidential ticket of all whoremongers all the time. That ought to turn out the values-base.

    Hey Lance I doubt you’ll have much luck copy-righting either “not a good thing” or “Boy George”. They’re all over the blogosphere.

    And Allen K, to imply that CB “recycles” a lot because of a repetition of a good line after 3 months is pretty picky. My estimate is that there have been about 180,000 words written in that time period.

    “Don’t shoot the piano player. He’s playing as fast as he can.”

  • “Hey Lance I doubt you’ll have much luck copy-righting either “not a good thing” or “Boy George”. They’re all over the blogosphere.” – Dale

    Well I doubt I have any claim to “Not a Good Thing”.

    As for “Boy George II”, the more who use it the better I feel 😉

    I was actually referring to “Unholy Alliance” by the way (#3).

  • It’s comforting to me to see Hillary, who I see as at best the Democrats 4th best nominee, tie Rudy G and Johnny Crooked Talk at this crazy-early stage.

  • My estimate is that there have been about 180,000 words written in that time period.

    A very good point. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that CB recycles often (that’s why it was in the form of a question); I was just surprised because I’d never noticed him to do so before.

  • Anyone who thinks Rudy is a moderate simply hasn’t been paying attention.

    He’s actually similar to Lieberman in that both had to embrace liberal positions on social issues as the price of entry to get into politics. If he could, I’m positive Giuliani would immediately renounce his pro-choice views; I’m not quite as sure whether he’d flip-flop on his support for gay rights (the one position I honestly admire him for).

    He was not a good Mayor. As noted above, his decision to locate the terrorism response center in the WTC was a disastrous mistake that others saw as such at the time, and his quick grab for more power after 9/11 (he wanted to extend his lame-duck term into 2002) was quickly and properly rejected by the public here. On a deeper level, he took credit for law enforcement reforms and practices that had begun under his predecessor–and made it clear that he didn’t give a shit about his cops’ abuses of minorities.

    Giuliani was helped by the incredibly weak candidates the Democrats ran against him in both his victorious mayoral races; by the 1994 Clinton crime bill that put thousands more cops on the street; and above all by the 1990s economy that pushed Wall Street to new highs and filled our city treasury.

    Aside from those fortunate circumstances, he was best known for his affairs, his thuggish efforts to censor art, his racial insensitivity, and the corruption of his appointees.

    His record is the very definition of a “target-rich environment.” And, perhaps most significant, he’s simply a dick: I look forward to the first time he blows up at a reporter on the trail in Iowa or NH, which will mark the beginning of the end.

  • I DIDN’T EXPECT SO MANY DEMOCRATS ON THIS SITE BUT THERE HERE AND THEY ARE SCARED SHI-LESS OF RUDY. WITH EVERY OTHER WORD ON TV AND THE MOVIES DIRTY AND EVERY OTHER WOMAN DRESSED LIKE A SLUT, ALL RUDY NEEDS TO FIT IN IS A BIG TATOO, A PIERCED NAVEL AND EAR RINGS.

    IN ANY EVENT HE COULD BEAT HILLARY LIKE A DRUM, MCCAIN TOO. RUDY AND NEWT WOULD BE THE SMARTEST OF THE PILE. AS TO FAMILY VALUES, HAVE YOU SEEN HIS WIVES? THEIR COLLECTION OF BROOMS ARE IN THE CORNER THERE WITH HILLARY’S. HAVE A NICE DAY…

  • Rudy dosen’t have a chance in the Republican Primaries. Sooner or later his opponents will point out the fact that while he was the “Republican Mayor” of New York City he appointed more than 60 men and women to the Civil, Criminal, and Family Cout benchs. In all of those judicial appointment not one of them was a Republican. All of his judical appointments were either registered Liberals or registered Democrats. As the “Republican Mayor” he had appointment power over more than 70 full commissioners in more than 50 City agencies, yet at no time during his administration did REPUBLICANS account for more than 10% of those appointments. Hell, he even appointed Chuck Schumers wife as the City’s Department of Transportation Commissioner.

    If the truth be told 3 out of the 5 Republican County Chairpersons were not going to support Rudy in the 1998 Senate race. He has only become palatable to Republicans after 9-11 because of his ability to help them raise money. Proir to that he was treated as a traitor to the cause.

    Once his history of not wanting Republicans in his Republican administration and his appointing ONLY Liberals and Democrats to the bench become more well known, rank and file Republicans will not shy away from him they will stampede away.

  • Mike,
    I’ve been documenting some of the more damning evidence of Rudy’s liberalism and opposition to Republicans. I’ve been putting alot of it on the Internet in an effort to get the word out about how bad Giuliani really is/was. The information you posted is pretty damning as it pertains to Giuliani’s judgement when making appointments. Do you have a link or something more that you could provide me?

    Thank you.

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