Giuliani has a healthcare ‘plan’

I’m sure some of my colleagues who know more about healthcare policy than I do will weigh in, but in the meantime, I thought I’d mention that Rudy Giuliani’s healthcare proposal seems remarkably (and predictably) thin.

Rudolph W. Giuliani on Tuesday called for transforming the way health care coverage is provided in the United States, advocating a voluntary move from the current employer-based system to one that would grant substantial tax benefits to people who buy their own insurance.

The proposals by Mr. Giuliani, a Republican presidential candidate, set the stage for a contentious battle with the Democratic candidates over health care, a defining domestic issue this campaign season.

In his speech here, he excoriated Democrats for advocating a “socialist” solution to solving the problem of the nation’s 44.8 million uninsured, saying the party’s candidates encouraged a “nanny government” by proposing a greater government role in health care.

Instead, he proposed tax exemptions of up to $15,000 per family, allowing individuals to direct that money toward the purchase of health insurance and other medical spending.

First, Giuliani seems far more enthusiastic about bashing Democratic plans than he does promoting his own policy ideas, which should probably offer everyone a big hint about the merit of his proposal. Indeed, Giuliani repeatedly referred to the plans offered by Edwards, Obama, and Clinton as “European” and “socialist” in nature. It was as transparent a lie as any candidate from either party has offered this year, though few in the media seem anxious to call him on it. (Note to Giuliani: liberals tend not to like the Dems’ plans because they’re not socialized medicine.)

Second, the “plan,” on the merits, doesn’t seem to address any of the problems with the existing system. It’s closer to Bush’s “ownership society,” though without the charm.

In proposing a tax exemption of up to $15,000 for a family and $7,500 for individuals, Mr. Giuliani said that money could be used by consumers to buy an insurance policy of their liking. The money left over, he said, could be put into a “health savings account” to be used to pay for deductibles or other uncovered medical expenses.

For middle-class families with serious healthcare costs, a $15,000 tax-exemption is a bit of an insult, and indicative of a candidate who doesn’t understand the scope of healthcare costs.

[H]e offered no assurances that insurance companies would not “cherry pick” by insuring only healthier people, or by charging much higher rates to more vulnerable people — like those with chronic diseases.

Instead, he said, moving to a market system would create incentives for people to remain healthy.

Currently, he said, “there is no incentive to wellness.”

Um, Rudy? People don’t want to be sick. That’s an incentive. For that matter, there’s nothing in Giuliani’s vague proposal to guarantee people the kind of preventative care they need.

Giuliani’s speech offered very little in the way of specifics. He said his goal was to outline his “vision,” with more details to come in the fall.

Keep that in mind in the coming months. Edwards and Obama have unveiled very specific healthcare proposals; Giuliani has offered a vague press release. Will reporters tell voters that Giuliani has “a healthcare plan”? Probably, but they’ll be wrong.

It’s hardly a “plan” at all. It doesn’t guarantee coverage for the uninsured, it does little to tackle rising costs, there’s nothing on community ratings and pre-existing conditions, and Giuliani can’t explain how much his vouchers and tax refunds would cost.

There’s just not much here — kind of like the rest of Giuliani’s vapid and ill-considered policy platform.

Indeed, Giuliani repeatedly referred to the plans offered by Edwards, Obama, and Clinton as “European” and “socialist” in nature.

Which ought to also be a wake-up call to Dem candidates proposing health care reform. No matter what they actually propose, the GOP will portray it as the second coming of Josef Stalin. Hint: If you’re going to be attacked for proposing single-payer, why not actually propose single-payer. It’s a freebie politically (since that’s what the GOP will tell everyone you are proposing anyway), and it has the advantage of having been tried all over the rest of the world already.

  • Guiliani doesn’t have to give specifics via a comprehensive press release or a, better, a press conference on his plan.

    Why? He’s a ReThug, meaning the MSM will sell anything he says as exponentially better than anything a Dem presents. All he has to do is keep repeating the Dem plans are “European” and “socialist,” with hints of the big “C” word, Communism.

    Mission Accomplished!

  • Let me make sure I understand something…does Giuliani think that by saying that people can “use the money” to buy health insurance and whatever is leftover on other medical expenses, that people will think that these tax deductions will actually be putting money in people’s pockets for that purpose? Or does he not understand what a tax deduction is? Does he understand that that is not the same as actually having $15,000 to spend on health insurance or deductibles or other out-of-pocket costs?

    I know all I am doing here is asking questions, but, I am always befuddled by these Republicans who think that if only there were a tax deduction, everyone would have health insurance and be able to afford their medical care.

    These kinds of tax deduction approaches are just proof to me that these people absolutely do not get it. Plans like Giuliani’s do not help the people who really need it – they help, once again, the big insurance companies, and people who already have insurance, who, if they are not already paying their premiums with pre-tax dollars, like a lot of employees do these days, will be able to deduct the cost, because they make enough money to be able to itemize deductions.

  • Giuliani’s plan does accomplish one important thing: it assures that the money keeps going to those same wonderful people who have created the health care mess.

    The myth that the health care market (Actually a closed system and exempt by law from anti-trust regulation) will provide the best possible health care for the most people is complete bullshit. Continuously rising health care costs and the number of uninsured are proof that “the market” in this case is not working.

    It’s curious that the politicians who advocate that we all entrust our health care to “the market” don’t entrust theirs to it.

  • yeah, anything “European” is inherently bad, that’s all we need to know about it.

    Giuliani. . . hmmm. . . doesn’t that sound kind of, i dunno, European?

  • it does little to tackle rising costs,

    If anything it’s going to raise costs, since buying your own insurance outside of a group plan is far more expensive, so score another one against Giuliani’s “plan”.

  • Socialist, European, nanny government – Rudy’s on message. He’s appealing to our worst angels, and it’s likely to be effective.

    The question is will the Dem’s leap at the opportunity that’s opened up to point out the mean spirited and heartlessness of what he’s proposing, or will they come across as emotionally tone deaf policy wonks? I’m not encouraged by the make-nice tone of most of the Dem candidates, or by the assumption that the electorate is stupid because they, and the media, resonate with emotionally sophisticated and consistent branding.

    People know us by what we stand for and what we stand against. Let’s hope some of the Dem’s consultants let them take on Rudy. Sicko set the stage and made this the right time to take a compelling stand.

  • Giuliani’s plan is so off-the-mark that it doesn’t even warrant comment. What does is the use of the adjective “socialized” as a poison-pill for anything Republicans don’t like. We live in a society, we are social creatures, we belong to social groups, we enjoy socializing in our free time with others who are sociable.

    Do people like Rudy think that society has no self-interest or just that it should not pursue it’s self-interest, because if that’s the case, we should just dissolve all organized human interaction and go back to hunting and gathering. Try running on that, Rudy, I dare you.

  • Good point, Anne. But, by the time the MSM and the Noise Machine get through at least 28% of Americans will be convinced the President Giuliani will give them $15,000 for health care.

  • Anne makes an excellent point about what an expemption is/isn’t. Makes you wonder if RG pays his taxes.

    But even if the Government handed out $15,000 checks so people could buy health insurance (won’t happen because that would be too much like the W word) even the crappiest, lamest, might-get-you-an-asprin, plan would devour it in a few months. And that’s assuming the people on the plan don’t need any sort of medical care.

    However, the ReThugs are making a mistake if they think they’ll get an instant replay of what happened during the HilCare! debacle. Back then, thanks to (ahem) a non-ReThuglican in the White House, more people had better jobs, ergo better insurance and therefore the luxury to scoff at socialized med’cin.

    That was then. It will really come down to how many people have medical bills they can’t pay or need medical care they can’t afford. Want a preview of the pounding they’ll take? Watch what happens with SCHIP.

  • Which ought to also be a wake-up call to Dem candidates proposing health care reform. No matter what they actually propose, the GOP will portray it as the second coming of Josef Stalin.

    Hell, 1994 provided all the evidence of that, despite the fact that the Clinton proposal was about as bipartisan and centrist as you can get.

    Of course, that bipartisanship led the punditocracy to sing its praises and condemn the inflexible lack of compromise from the opposition, and the fact that it gored the insurance industry’s ox led them to be on their guard against self-serving if not dishonest claims in opposition.

    Oh, wait…

  • From the AP story:

    Giuliani offered the broad outline of his plan but his campaign did not provide many specifics. Asked how much his plan would cost and how many of the people without insurance it would help, Giuliani said he won’t have those answers for two or three months.

    Rudee seems to be guilty of what would have to be described as premature political ejaculation. And like Steve said, the ejaculate is pretty thin.

  • As for this being Rudee’s plan, where, oh where, have we heard about a 15,000 tax deduction per family to buy private health insurance before?

    Hey, Rudee, surely the script calls for you to be the unofficial heir to His Holiness Ronald Reagan, and not the politically disfigured George the 2nd?

  • One thing about moving away from employer-based health insurance: if I buy my own coverage, what happens to the money my employer kicked in to my insurance? Do I keep that as part of my total compensation package, and add it to my paycheck? Or does my boss get to keep that part, while I’m out of pocket for my own coverage?

  • Furthermore, how is giving each taxpayer thousands of dollars (in the form of an exemption) less socialistic than having the government simply spend those thousands of dollars on health care directly?

    Oh — because it amounts to a government subsidy of the insurance industry. They’re hurting because those 45 Million uninsured can’t afford their product. Rudy would fix that by using the federal treasury to supply the insurance companies with paying customers.

    I don’t even know anything about health care policy, and I can see this stinks.

  • There are major flaws in Giuliani’s argument. He tries to connect the plans of the Democrats to Michael Moore as well as calling them “socialized medicine.” Only Dennis Kucinich calls for a single payer system, and Moore has said that even Kucinich doesn’t go far enough for him. Attacking Michael Moore’s ideas and attacking the plans of the Democratic candidates are two different things.

    Giuliani’s statement about incentives for wellness is nonsense, but what if we judge his plan by that measure? A major problem of Health Savings Accounts, which he advocates, is that they create disincentives for wellness. People become reluctant to pay for routine care of chronic diseases and preventative care because they don’t want to take it out of their own plan (even though this is far more cost effective in the long run).

    More at Liberal Values:
    http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=1920

    There are also many more posts at Liberal Values on the problems with HSA’s.

  • roodies idea of tax exemptions (this term is not part of the tax code, so it’s hard to tell if he means deduction or credit) is a wealthy republican’s wet dream, but doesn’t do jack-sh*t for the average working person, who probably doesn’t itemize his deductions, and whose tax liability doesn’t come any where near $15,000. and since these deductions or credits won’t come until the end of the year when they file their returns, where in hell does he think they’re going to get the money in the meantime, out of their arsses?

  • SO basically the advocates of socialized medicine are saying that because rich people have the means to provide for their OWN health care, plus more, that plus more should be transferred to poorer people. Where is the logic in advocating such an approach. Health care is a problem in this country, a very serious one. Class warfare rhetoric deserves no role in determining the solutions to that problem. Take your agitprop to a philosophy classroom, or a rant session, but don’t use the government to dip in my assets to pay for something YOU can’t afford. IT’S NOT MY PROBLEM, FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF HOW TO AFFORD YOUR OWN HEALTHCARE OR LACK OF IT.

  • SO basically the advocates of socialized medicine are saying that because rich people have the means to provide for their OWN health care, plus more, that plus more should be transferred to poorer people. Where is the logic in advocating such an approach. Health care is a problem in this country, a very serious one. Class warfare rhetoric deserves no role in determining the solutions to that problem. Take your agitprop to a philosophy classroom, or a rant session, but don’t use the government to dip in my assets to pay for something YOU can’t afford. IT’S NOT MY PROBLEM, FIGURE IT OUT FOR YOURSELF HOW TO AFFORD YOUR OWN HEALTHCARE OR LACK OF IT.

  • i tried to update my post earlier but the site went down.

    to clarify, the tax code refers to exemptions, but it means personal exemptions for dependents, which is obviously not what roodie meant.

  • andrew, i can’t begin to think of the words to use to describe your attitude. i am appalled that anyone would make such an assinine statement

  • just bill – I have a feeling that what Rudy is talking about is exempting the first $15,000 of income from the calculation of taxable income, so that after you add up all your income, subrtact your deductions and personal exemptions, you would then subtract either $15,000 or $7,500, and then calculate the tax. I don’t know if this will be an exemption that gets phased out, so that if you have income up to a certain amount, you get the full exemption, which gets smaller the more income you have, or whether it would be an across-the-board exemption.

    As for you, andrew, no one is being handed anything – that’s the whole point. An exemption isn’t going to make health insurance any more affordable for people who have no money to begin with, and is going to allow those who do have the money to have more disposable income – no surprise there.

    I guess the questions you have to ask are, do people have a right to health care, and is a healthy citizenry in the public interest. We can argue all day and into next week about whether people have a right to health care, regardless of theior ability to pay, but I don’t think there’s any question that it is costing this country, and all of us as taxpayers and consumers of health care, a fortune to care for those who do not get health care on a regular basis.

    Now, maybe you would be happy to just abandon those who are sick and cannot afford care, but how do you do that without cost to the government – do they just live on the street? I’m all for people doing their part to pay for their care, and I would greatly appreciate it if those who can not afford to bear the costs of having children would stop having them, and that people who can’t afford health insurance take better care of themselves – but the kid who is born to someone who cannot afford care should not have to bear the physical burden of his parents’ bad judgment.

  • you’re probably right, anne, that this is what roodie had in mind. but i would remind you that a $15,000 exemption does not transfer into much of a reduction in taxes for a taxpayer in the lowest tax bracket, so those who need more help in paying medical expenses will get the least benefit. certainly the tax savings would not even begin to pay for the premiums for a health insurance policy for even a single individual. once again, the ones who benefit the most from any “income tax based” approach are the rich americans.

  • moving to a market system would create incentives for people to remain healthy.

    Yay. Now the Health Care debate has its own “If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime”.

  • just bill – yeah, I know – that’s part of the problem with this kind of “plan.” Unfortunately, Rudy is talking about this $15,000 deduction or exemption as if it represented the equivalent amount of dollars in the hands of taxpayers – and that is absolutely not the case. Reducing one’s income by $15,000 only reduces the tax you pay by the percentage applicable to your bracket – and since the top bracket is 35%, that represents a maximum “savings” of only $5,250.

    Smoke and mirrors, and not likely to make health insurance affordable for anyone who doesn’t have it.

  • Andrew, the best way to deal with those who are centered on themselves, and themselves only, is to point out the selfish side of this:

    It is your problem when untreated diseases among the poor waft through the air to your neighborhood. Pathogens pay no heed to NIMBY (not in my back yard).

    It is also your problem when consumerism breaks down and there’s no one left to buy whatever it is that has so blessed you.

    It is also your problem when the starving, diseased, hopeless mobs of the impoverished rob you and leave you and your family for dead.

    It’s our problem and don’t forget it!

  • anne, i think the reason that roodie is presenting his exemption as if it represented the equivalent amount of money in taxpayers pockets, is because that is what he actually thinks!

    thanks for the conversation, btw.

  • […] don’t use the government to dip in my assets to pay for something YOU can’t afford. — Andrew, @21 (and ditto @ 22)

    Suppose… your total expenditure — what you’re paying in taxes, Social Security and (private) health insurance — remains the same. But, because everything is managed by the same institution (government), one of the middlemen (insurance company, with its highly-paid CEOs) is cut out of the equation. The resulting saving is then applied to the health care of someone who otherwise could not afford it…

    With it being “no skin off your nose”, would you still oppose such a set-up, “on principle”?

    I guess what I’m trying to find out is whether it’s only your brain that’s fried, or your heart as well. Just stupid? Or mean stupid?

  • 1. WHO PAYS GIULIANI’S INSURANCE ‘NOW?’
    2. HE IS NOT A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE–DOES HE PAY HIS OWN INSURANCE PREMIUM?
    3. OR IS IT ‘SOCIALIZED’ AND PAID FOR BY THE PEOPLE OF NEW YORK?
    4. HE SAYS: WE NEED TO TAKE ‘RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN HEALTH.”
    5. DOES THAT MEAN HE CAUSED HIS OWN PROSTATE CANCER–SURELY, IF HE DID–HE SHOULD NOT HAVE EXPECTED THE ‘INSURANCE COMPANY TO PAY???”
    6. HOW MUCH WAS PAID IN HIS ‘BEHALF’ FOR HIS CANCER TREATMENT?
    CHARLIE RANGEL WAS RIGHT—
    THIS MAN’S A
    ‘BUM’
    RATHER, LET ME PARAPHRASE THAT: RUDOLPH GIULIANI’S AN INSENSITIVE BUM!!
    PS: WHERE DID HE GET 70 MILLION DOLLARS???

  • 1. WHO PAYS FOR RUDY GIULIANI’S PERSONAL HEALTHCARE?
    2. IS IT THE NEW YORK TAXPAYER?
    3. IF YES–WHY ARE THEY PAYING???
    4. HE IS NOT A NEW YORK EMPLOYEE–
    THEREFORE, HIS INSURANCE (IF PAID BY CITIZENS’ TAXES) IS ‘SOCIALIZED.’
    5. HOW MUCH DID HIS CANCER TREATMENT COST?
    A. HOW MUCH DID HIS SOCIALIZED INSURANCE FUNDED BY TAXPAYERS
    PAY FOR HIS TREATMENT?
    B. HOW MUCH WAS PAID BY RUDY?

    WHAT A HYPOCRITE! OR, AS CHARLIE RANGEL SAID–A ‘BUM!’

  • The citizens of the United States have ALREADY paid for healthcare.
    Funding has gone instead to support the war/oil/’sickness’ cartel in this country!

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