Giuliani still swimming up stream

In light of Rudy Giuliani’s all-but-announced presidential campaign — he told Fox News last night, “I’m in this to win” — high-profile conservatives are stepping up to welcome him to the race. For example, there’s Tony Perkins, head of the far-right Family Research Council.

Tony Perkins… said Monday if Rudy Giuliani wins the GOP presidential nomination, Democrats will take back the White House in 2008.

“If by some chance Giuliani were to gain the Republican nomination it would set up a very similar scenario that we had last November,” Perkins said in an interview with Christian Broadcasting Network. “A unenthusiastic Republican base which will suppress turnout and set up a Democratic victory.” […]

“Americans do not yet realize how far outside of the mainstream of conservative thought that Mayor Giuliani social views really are,” Perkins told CBN. “Once people focus on this election and the candidates, Giuliani’s lead will diminish.”

And then there’s Terry Jeffrey, the editor-at-large of Human Events, writing for National Review.

By advocating abortion on demand and same-sex unions, Rudy is doing something far more egregious than, say, defacing a New York subway train. He is defacing the institution that forms the foundation of human civilization. That is not conservative.

Rudy will not win the Republican nomination because enough of the people who vote in Republican caucuses and primaries still respect life and marriage, and are not ready to give up on them — or on the Republican party as an agent for protecting them.

So, really, why bother? What can Giuliani tell GOP primary voters that would convince them to nominate a pro-choice, pro-gay candidate as the Republican presidential nominee for the first time in the party’s history?

As it happens, he may have something resembling a plan.

When Sean Hannity asked Giuliani about abortion rights last night, the former NYC mayor said: “Where I stand on abortion is I oppose it, I don’t like it, I hate it, I think abortion is something that is a personal matter that I would advise somebody against, however, I believe in a woman’s right to choose. I think you have to ultimately not put a woman in jail for that. I think ultimately you have to leave that to a disagreement of conscience.”

But he also hinted that his judicial nominees would disagree with him, and he praised conservative Supreme Court justices like Alito, Roberts, and Scalia, all of whom reject abortion rights. Giuliani specifically told Hannity he would want “justices who interpreted the Constitution rather than invented it.”

It’s a clumsy and borderline ridiculous attempt to “finesse” the abortion issue, but it appears to be Giuliani’s strategy. In other words, here’s the pitch to the GOP base: he’s pro-choice, but it doesn’t matter because his judges won’t be. Sure, he’s accepted awards from NARAL and has taken a firm stand against banning what the right-wing likes to call “partial-birth abortion,” but his judges will compensate by ruling the opposite of the way he would.

This isn’t particularly coherent. First, part of being pro-choice, which Giuliani has always bragged about being, is the belief that reproductive rights are part and parcel of Americans’ constitutional rights. Part of being pro-life is the belief that Roe should be overturned, which in turn could lead lawmakers to ban the procedure. One cannot be both — it’s impossible to believe that abortion can and cannot be regulated by law.

Second, as publius explained very well, Giuliani would have a government to shape as president.

The problem, of course, is that it doesn’t really matter what Giuliani thinks personally about abortion. If his executive branch nominates judges that are anti-abortion, or delegates that process to the Federalist Society and OLC, then he is for all practical purposes anti-abortion.

The larger point here, one I made in 2004, is that it’s important to resist viewing presidential elections (particularly general elections) as personality contests. It’s important of course to consider an individual’s judgment prior to handing over the keys to the military. But voters should also remember that they’re selecting not just an individual, but an executive branch. In an ideal world, voters would therefore take into the account the types of people who will be running the various administrative agencies (and nominating judges) under a certain person’s presidency….

Personally, I would only be willing to vote for someone like Giuliani — despite our agreement on social issues — if I had some assurance that his executive branch (and judicial nominations) would be institutionally different than the current one. My hunch though, as his comments to Hannity show, is that Giuliani would let social conservatives run a big part of the show (including nominating or vetoing judges). In fact, he may be even more deferential on these matters to compensate for his liberal social views. The bottom line is that while I see major differences in the personal preferences of people like Brownback and Giuliani, it’s not clear that their executive branches would be all that different.

It should make for a fascinating sales pitch. Center-left voters, who may like his social policies, would get to hear all about the ways in which he’d ignore those policies as president. Center-right voters, who are skeptical about him, would get to hear how he’ll turn his back on everything he’s believed throughout his professional career.

Who does this appeal to?

Great! As an audience member for the great GOP cannibal-a-thon that should be the 2008 primary season I can only say “Bring ‘Em On”. Nothing like a public airing of how completely whacked these guys are to charge up the electorate. Maybe they should consider Pastor Ted now that he’s “cured”.

  • Who does this appeal to?

    “Metro” Republicans, who are attracted by the Rudy-after-9/11 poise, the gruff get-things-done veneer, and are repulsed by the Big Brother-ism of other Republican candidates who bet the farm and lost on gay marriage and abortion issues.

    I absolutely welcome Rudy to the race. He’ll attract enough interest to pull the other candidates leftward or push them rightward. Either is anathema to the Right, widening the already-evident divide in the Republican electorate. What’s missing? Rudy’s take on Iraq.

    Waiting for that shoe …

    -GFO

  • I really, really can’t wait to see the brawl between Giuliani and McCain as they fight over the social conservative base. The religious right aren’t big fans of either of them, clearly, so I think we’ll get to see a race to the bottom in terms of pandering, with each constantly pointing out the huge numbers of inconsistencies in each other’s positions as they loudly run to the right.

    I’m thinking (and hoping) it’ll be a self-immolation on McCain’s part after he tosses piles of red meat at Rudy, burying Rudy’s chances with conservatives while at the same time destroying what little credibility he has left with Republicans who are even remotely moderate. There’s still a lot of good feeling about Rudy (just look at his approval ratings), so I think McCain’s going to end up looking about as sympathetic a character as Cheney after he’s done. It seems possible that a big Republican dogpile on Giuliani could also alienate a fair number of more moderate Republicans from the party for a long time, too.

    Toss Brownback and Romney into the mix and this is going to be a seriously entertaining primary.

  • so much for principles, and standing up for one’s beliefs. Rudy is, always has been and always will be, an opportunist.

  • bubba’s got it. Perhaps aside from his commendable stance on gay issues, which (as is the case literally any time a righty takes a progressive position) stems from his personal experience of having gay friends, he really couldn’t give a shit about any of these things. They were positions of convenience/necessity to win here in NYC; if he could destroy all the evidence, he would turn on a dime.

    The prospect of Giuliani as president should terrify anyone who believes in limited government. The guy is a monomaniacal psychopath, who happens to be a lot smarter than the current intellectually devoid sociopath in the White House. No presidential contender would more quickly or enthusiastically move us toward a police state than Rudy.

  • He would never say where he came from
    Yesterday dont matter if it’s gone
    But he’s not too bright
    As he moves to the right
    No wife knows
    Where he comes and goes

    Goodbye, Rudy Giuli
    Who could hang a claim on you?
    When you change with every new day
    Still I’m not gonna miss you…

  • Denying rights to gays & women is the “institution that forms the foundation of human civilization”? Jeez, hyperbole much?

  • I’m not sure if you read Glenn Greenwald’s post today (http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com) but he makes the case that Guiliani is going to be a pretty formidable candidate. Particularly by pointing out that 1) He’s a narcissictic authoritarian, 2) that conservatives love narcissictic authoritarians, 3) that conservatives always forgive poor moral and ethical behaviour as long as they talk a lot about being morally and ethically upstanding (Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh being cases in point.)

    Well worth reading.

  • Well god damn. I just wrote an awesome comment, but forgot to answer the damn question or copy my response. And so I just lost the whole thing. But I wrote pretty much the same thing at my blog, so you can just read it there. It’s basically about how far-right Republicans will target Rudy to establish their own presidential credentials, now that he’s the front runner; and how Rudy won’t be allowed to pay lip service to the religious right, as Bush was. They’ll expect specific promises.

    And something new I thought of is that I think religious leaders (like Perkins) realized that they really didn’t gain anything by befriending the Bush Admin, and that business was much better for them under Clinton. Under Bush, they were merely part of Rove’s Republican fiefdom, but with Clinton, they were religious crusaders sent to save America. And I think they did better that way. So I see no reason why they’d accept Rudy or any other nominee who isn’t completely with their cause. And without the religious leaders, Rudy hasn’t a chance to win the religious vote. Yet Republicans can’t win without it.

    More and more, I think Republicans will realize that their pro-Southern, pro-religion strategy has utterly backfired and doomed them to a small minority of the country.

  • Despite the Repub field either trying to emulate Bush or become Bush lite, i.e. Rudy’s abortion switcharoo and Mitt’s attempted appeals to the religious right (Gott mit Mitt), there are some serious divisions in the party. What I like to hear are the conservatives trying to define what being a conservative is. “He is defacing the institution that forms the foundation of human civilization. That is not conservative.” I thought conservatives wanted a small institution that forms the foundation of civilization, you know making it small enough to drown it in the bathtub?

    The collection of contradictions that has become Republicanism and conservatism may come crashing down with this election. The marriage of the business elites with religious social conservatives was a mismatch. With enough wedges, the two can be pried apart again. Rudy’s a good wedge.

  • part of being pro-choice, which Giuliani has always bragged about being, is the belief that reproductive rights are part and parcel of Americans’ constitutional rights
    .
    This isn’t really true. There are people like myself who support a woman’s right to choose who would prefer that it was done through legislation. The Roe v. Wade decision with it’s distinctions about trimesters reads more like a good piece of legislation than an interpretation of the constitution. Given that I like the outcome of Roe v. Wade I don’t get excited about it, and don’t really want it overturned, but it makes me uncomfortable when the Supreme Court stretches that much. Next time they might create a constitutional right that I don’t like.

  • As described at the link, Rudy supports a massive amnesty that will flood the U.S. with new LegalImmigrants as well as new IllegalAliens. Since the Dems support that as well, I think the choice is clear: Rudy should switch parties.

  • Rudy’s got a great plan there: he’s taking the pre-established Republican concept that what one says and what one does don’t have to be connected in any way, and running hard with it. See, the idea that someone might appoint judges that would do the opposite of what he himself believes seems odd to those of us who believe in consistency and disapprove of hypocrisy, but not to the GOP faithful. They eat that stuff up, apparently.

  • >What can Giuliani tell GOP primary voters that would convince them to nominate a pro-choice, pro-gay candidate as the Republican presidential nominee for the first time in the party’s history?

    don’t forget Rudy is also pro-gun control. As a conservative/libertarian friend of mine put it: “he can’t be all three; he’s got to drop at least one of those stances publically”. And I agree. If he comes out with a “as a big city mayor I was for gun control, but as President I understand that we are a large and diverse country and thus I do not support the Brady Bill, or any other *federal* gun control legislation…”, then his I’m pro-choice personally but will nominate “non-activist” judges may just work.

    I still don’t think he’ll get the GOP nomination, but if he does, I think he’ll be hard to beat. Too many voters are still motivated by greed and fear, and he can play to both of those factors quite well.

  • Rudy Rudy Rudy:
    If Giuliani WOULD come out forthrightly in favor of the good that immigration has done for America, and the benefits, culturally, socially AND economically we all get from the immigrants now and in the past — and my family has been here almost 100 years — I might even consider voting for him.
    I am fortunate in living in Brooklyn, one of the most diverse areas in the country, and one reason I enjoy it is because of that very diversity, and the way that the groups do interrelate positively. (Come to the corner of Coney Island Avenue and Avenue L any day when school is letting out and see the diversity of every group that comes to the bus stop, with orthodox jews, Pakistanis, Orientals, blacks, whites, not hanging in cliques but mixing and talking and laughing together.)
    America has had a blight of anti-immigrant, anti-foreign bigotry since it was founded — with many of the same arguments used and only the groups changing. This sort of bigotry (see Orcinus’ recent column on “Immigration and the Haters”) fuels the ugliest part of America, and it would be nice to see ANY candidate condemn it (and not have their campaign manager play to the bigots, as Terry McAuliffe recently did).

  • Can we call this the “hired thug” approach to leadership?
    “I would never smash a guy’s kneecaps with a baseball bat. I let my associates Lefty and Knuckles take care of that sort of thing.”

    Go. Away.

  • One wonders if Rudy would not enforce any laws congress might pass (yah, right) restricting a woman’s rights even after the Supreme Court said it was okay?

    He’s gone pretty lame, but not as lame as Romney or McCan’t.

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