House GOP motto: when in doubt, lie

Barack Obama sat down with the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg to discuss U.S. policy towards Israel, and for the first 95% of the interview, Obama offered a solid, uncontroversial position, which included effusive praise for the Jewish state.

After describing some of the first times he thought about Zionism, Obama said “the idea of a secure Jewish state is a fundamentally just idea, and a necessary idea, given not only world history but the active existence of anti-Semitism, the potential vulnerability that the Jewish people could still experience.”

He talked about how “the idea of Israel and the reality of Israel is one that I find important to me personally. Because it speaks to my history of being uprooted, it speaks to the African-American story of exodus, it describes the history of overcoming great odds and a courage and a commitment to carving out a democracy and prosperity in the midst of hardscrabble land.”

He assailed Hamas as a terrorist organization and said the United States “should not be dealing with them until they recognize Israel, renounce terrorism, and abide by previous agreements.”

When the topic turned to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Obama said, “Israel and the Palestinians have tough issues to work out to get to the goal of two states living side by side in peace and security.” When asked if Israel besmirches the United States’ reputation, Obama said “No, no, no.”

So far, so good. Obama then added, “[W]hat I think is that this constant wound, that this constant sore, does infect all of our foreign policy. The lack of a resolution to this problem provides an excuse for anti-American militant jihadists to engage in inexcusable actions, and so we have a national-security interest in solving this, and I also believe that Israel has a security interest in solving this because I believe that the status quo is unsustainable. I am absolutely convinced of that … I want to solve the problem.”

Describing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a source of instability in the region, and a dispute in need of a resolution, hardly seems controversial.

So, House Republican leaders changed Obama’s words to make him say what they wanted to hear. By any reasonable definition of the word, they lied.

Reps. John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Eric Cantor (R-Va.), the first and third highest ranking Republicans in the House, issued written statements. First Boehner…

“Israel is a critical American ally and a beacon of democracy in the Middle East, not a ‘constant sore’ as Barack Obama claims,” Boehner said. “Obama’s latest remark, and his commitment to ‘opening a dialogue’ with sponsors of terrorism, echoes past statements by Jimmy Carter who once called Israel an ‘apartheid state.'”

…and then Cantor.

“It is truly disappointing that Senator Obama called Israel a ‘constant wound,’ ‘constant sore,’ and that it ‘infect[s] all of our foreign policy.’ These sorts of words and characterizations are the words of a politician with a deep misunderstanding of the Middle East and an innate distrust of Israel,” Cantor said.

Pathetic. House GOP leaders are well past the point of shame, but if there’s even a shred of decency among them, Boehner and Cantor will say their statements were written by overeager staffers and apologize.

(Boehner’s reference to Carter was an especially ridiculous move, given that Obama specifically denounced it in the very same interview: “I strongly reject [Carter’s] characterization. Israel is a vibrant democracy, the only one in the Middle East, and there’s no doubt that Israel and the Palestinians have tough issues to work out to get to the goal of two states living side by side in peace and security, but injecting a term like apartheid into the discussion doesn’t advance that goal. It’s emotionally loaded, historically inaccurate, and it’s not what I believe.”)

Jake Tapper concluded:

…Boehner et al are falsely accusing Obama of besmirching a nation and a people. They are accusing him of being anti-Israel, even anti-Semitic. It is false.

This kind of twisting is unbecoming a party that claims to have superior ideas to Obama’s fairly orthodox liberal record. Voters may conclude that Republicans think they have to make things up to beat Obama. Which they don’t.

Actually, they might. If clowns like Boehner and Cantor had any confidence at all in the merits of the Republican agenda or the value of ideas, they wouldn’t perceive lies like these as necessary for electoral success.

Update: The Atlantic’s Goldberg, who is a conservative, also blasted Boehner, calling the Minority Leader’s attack on Obama “mendacious, duplicitous, gross, and comically refutable.” Goldberg called on Boehner to “do the right thing, and correct the record.”

Dogs bark, cats meow, Republicans lie.

  • Obama’s recent cozying up to AIPAC interests makes me uncomfortable. Describing Israel as a “Vibrant Democracy” is disingenuous at best – A theocracy run by a bunch of clerics would be more accurate. Olmert is about to go down in a bribery scandal involving an american businessman. The Likud party (Unlike a growing majority of Israeli jews, who are now more sympathetic to the palestinian issue), has grown increasingly hard line and racist. The English treated the Irish better, and that ain’t saying much.
    We have to go all he way back to Carter (Who has then and now done some studying on the issues in that region) to find the most significant (And longest lasting) peace treaty in the region involving Israel (with Egypt). So maybe Obama, and the rest of us, should be listening to Carter.
    Israel is the spoiled child of an indulgent parent – It’s time for some tough love.

  • This is a good one…

    What is with Chris Mathews in his interview with a Democrat this morning about taking sodium pentathol ? Here, is Chris Mathews suggesting the Democrats lie.
    Of course he is. At just about every breathe he makes a claim Hillary has no chance to win the nomination.

    A very interesting approach to modern news casting that makes one wonder why America has a problem with modern media propaganda techniques. So, in the modern sense Chris Mathews, MSNBC, is making gaffe of horrible proportions. Telling the truth about the snotty, smear, and arrogance in interviewing. America has been witness to is none other than “ interrogating methods “ to obtain information for political purposes. All along many social science experts have been claiming America never had reporting for over sight. But the argument can be a fascist trend of information dissemination is taking place. Here one could make the claim for the obvious reasons but America is really interrogated in fundemental political techniques for power and greed.

    Especially watching the snapping, spitting, splattering American’s witness as Chris Mathews always relentlessly with the arrogance of a ranking officer asks questions and rides right over answers to squeeze something out in a public display to prove something to a political end. All to view in a narrative with ammunition of time pounding day after day hour after hour minute by minute. Keith Olbermann is good at it too, so is Limbaugh, Hannity, and the star performer O’Reilly. The list is huge, first liners across the board pimping news to America using this treachery on the very ‘public’ electromagnetic domain spectrum. The results, we all witness a screwed up America in a bad dream, no, bad reality. America lives in a nightmare watching six figure Journalist laughing having a gay old time all the while spewing pole numbers from some mysterious place unknown dark origin, certainly not from the goodness of Grace and the God I know.

    Did you know that the sodium Pentathol is a drug used to get information from “unwilling” subjects. A truth drug (or truth serum) is a drug used for the purposes of obtaining information from an unwilling subject, most often by a police, intelligence, or military organization on a prisoner. But the kicker is the use of truth drugs is classified as a form of “ torture “ according to international law. Yike and Americans argue about water boarding.

    Perhaps Mainstream Media does not use the drug but use the methods. Here, today America feels like, personal sovereignty, a Republican core believe, is shattered beyond anything, anyone can think. Especially those of the Republican Party that developed the Patriot Act. No Habeas Corpus, and especially endorse secret prisons, Gitmo, or gulags anywhere in the world. That is scary to have embedded in a system for this long for years and kept silent by our free market media enterprise. Now for obvious reasons we are ‘Bushed” as Keith Olbermann says.

    You with me, anyone can make the argument the free market system does not work here and the Bush administration has created the most devastating form of political movement in history. The Irony is the 28% of America will stand by it and support Bush. The media has given Bush a free ride for six years. you really tink the media is fair? Here, 72% of America is being choked out what they have and forced to into a system of not bitterness, but grief. Most don’t have time for bitterness.

    Vote Hillary Clinton 2008

  • @ 4: Vote Hillary Clinton 2008

    I sure will, if she’s nominated, because my country is more important to me than my personal preferences. Tell me, will you vote for Obama if he gets nominated? Will you do what it takes to keep another Republican neocon out of the White House?

  • No, our politicians should not be kissing up to AIPAC, but I really don’t understand the left’s outsized sympathies for the Palestinians, either.

    It would make more sense to protest about the United States being occupied and pushing for non-natives to get out and give the occupied territories back to Native Americans.

    Unlike the Jewish people, what unprecedented genocide gave us moral entitlement to a new safe-haven in another part of the world? What historical ties did we have to North America? What international body sanctioned and legitimized our new territory?

    Moreover, what did the Native Americans do to threaten WASPs that provided a security reason for claiming North America? See, I think it gives the Palestinians and arab states a pass to consider Gaza and the West Bank “occupied.” In 1967, all of Israel’s neighbors simulteneously threatened war on Isreal and massed on Israel’s borders. Such acts have consequences and you have no right to be protected from those consequences. Israel won that war — the territories are not “occupied,” that is land the Palestinians and their arab allies chose to gamble, and lost.

    Moving to modern day, Israel has been playing very nice with Fatah for the past year. Why do we in the American left throw our lot in with Hamas, who continues to reject diplomacy, reject violence, reject entry into civilized society — when Fatah has shown that they are willing to work toward peace, to stop the fighting, to try and build a state rather than just an army? How be we justify telling Israel they are expected to play nice with an entity who continues to reject Israel’s existence (or perhaps some here actually reject Israel’s existence as well? I often sense more than a whiff of anti-Semitism in the posts here).

    The solution in the ME is a carrot and stick approach that rewards Fatah and works with them to build a modern state while isolating Hamas and, when Hamas lashes out with rockets and attacks, Israel has every right to fully retaliate. Eventually the thinking, reasonable Palestinians will see the Fatah-controlled areas thriving, with new infrastructure, growing economies, and peace while the Hamas areas continue to be depressed and dangerous. Once the majority of the Palestinian people see that more is acheived through peace than war, and choose the Fatah path rather than the Hamas path, the groundwork is laid for a permanent solution (likely along the lines of the Clinton-brokered agreement that the Palestinians scuttled at the last minute).

    Yes, we should show some tough-love to Israel on issues of new settlements or failure to fulfill promises to dismantle certain settlements. And we shuld encourage the best of faith in dealing with Fatah (while continuing to insist Fatah drive out corruption that is a troubling part of its history). Coddling Hamas, however, helps no one and suggests that terrorism is a more acceptible approach than working with your neighbors as Fatah is learning to do. Coddling Hamas prolongs the ME crisis, it doesn’t solve it.

  • Just for clarification… I think the “sore” that Obama was referring to is the issue of (issues like) housing settlements in the West Bank, and the Jewish-Muslim hostility it inflames.

    Read Obama’s comment right before he says “No, no, no.”

    BO: What I will say is what I’ve said previously. Settlements at this juncture are not helpful. Look, my interest is in solving this problem not only for Israel but for the United States.

    JG: Do you think that Israel is a drag on America’s reputation overseas?

    BO: No, no, no. But what I think is that this constant wound, that this constant sore, does infect all of our foreign policy. The lack of a resolution to this problem provides an excuse for anti-American militant jihadists to engage in inexcusable actions, and so we have a national-security interest in solving this, and I also believe that Israel has a security interest in solving this because I believe that the status quo is unsustainable.

    Emphasis was mine… but still, that comment provides a very different frame for Obama’s statement.

  • Megalomania said: Vote Hillary Clinton 2008

    You might consider another handle if you’re pushing that message.

  • But, but, but, but I thought Republicans were morally superior. Are you saying they lie?

    To Megalomania: Sure, I’ll vote for either Hillary or Obama in November … what does this have to do with Republican liars?

  • Why even bother using his actual words since they’re misrepresenting his actual intentions? Why not lie all the way? “Obama says Jews are devils and he never met a Jew who didn’t smell bad.”

  • I’m pretty sure that AIPAC will not call the republicans on their lies, and that this will get a lot of airtime as a result. It’s the “Iran has vowed to destroy Israel” thing all over again.

  • ME Moderate said:
    Moving to modern day, Israel has been playing very nice with Fatah for the past year. Why do we in the American left throw our lot in with Hamas, who continues to reject diplomacy, reject violence, reject entry into civilized society — when Fatah has shown that they are willing to work toward peace, to stop the fighting, to try and build a state rather than just an army?

    We are stuck with Hamas because the Palestinians democratically elected Hamas to lead them. It was the United States that pressured the Palestinians in 2006 to hold legislative elections. The Palestinian people rejected the Fatah party, which was corrupt, incompetent held in contempt by the rest of the world, and which had done nothing to improve the lives of ordinary Palestinians. And since a moderate, accommodating political party didn’t materialize out of thin air, the Palestinians turned to Hamas.

    To make things worse, after the election the Bush administration began arming Fatah and urging them to overthrow the Hamas-led government by force. The result was a fiasco reminiscent of the Bay of Pigs, which left Hamas stronger than ever.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

    The United States and Israel did everything they could to undermine the Palestinian Authority when it was governed by Fatah. The Palestinian people saw time and again that negotiation led only to humiliation. Neither the United States nor Israel has done anything to give the Palestinians hope that a peaceful co-existence with Israel is possible. The only choices we’ve left them are to continue in poverty and despair or to fight a asymmetric battle against Israel.

  • Silly thugs. I’m betting that AJs who hear the chopped, distorted version will immediately find the actual Obama comments and thus be more inclined to support Obama. Moronic liars are good enemies to have. Too bad all Americans won’t do the simple search exercise(or read CB).

  • He talked about how “the idea of Israel and the reality of Israel is one that I find important to me personally. Because it speaks to my history of being uprooted, it speaks to the African-American story of exodus, it describes the history of overcoming great odds and a courage and a commitment to carving out a democracy and prosperity in the midst of hardscrabble land.”

    Nice touch. The challenge of the Dems/Obama/Progressives is to see to it that such great snippets are not the political equivalent of trees falling in an empty forest. The right wing certainly isn’t going to be honest about what Obama says; the MSM will simply ignore anything that doesn’t feed their preconceived narratives. So how many voting American Jews will ever see or hear this part of Obama’s comments?

    One of the biggest efforts from the left in the 2008 campaign (and beyond) is how do we get a megaphone – how do we get one back in the MSM, how do we create a new one, how do we turn our online advantage into one.

  • SteveT –

    Not to hijack a thread about Repub lies and turn it into a ME policy debate, but here goes anyway. . .

    I will grant you that pre-Abbas Fatah clearly had no real interest in governing. But I think it hard to look at the Fatah territories now versus the Hamas territories now and say that the Fatah effort to overthrow Hamas was a Bay of Pigs-like fiasco.

    Yes, Bush screwed up in having no foresight about the likely election results. But being democratically elected is not a blank check. If you are firing rockets into civilian populations, it really doesn’t matter if you are run by the elected, the appointed, the inherited, or the junta. You are still doing wrong. That you are “democratically elected” does not legitimize bombing sidewalk cafes full of families with children. (I note you just assumed the right of Hamas-led Palestinians to pre-1967 borders, ignoring that part of my argument. Obviously I disagree that the use of asymmetrical warfare is justified here — particularly since it is clear that the “pre-1967 borders” is a ruse to Hamas leadership, who still refuse to acknowledge anything but the “pre-Israel” borders.)

    Since the Fatah/Hamas split, Hamas suffers the same problem that I believe led Arafat to scuttle the Clinton deal at the last minute (despite it being the best offer Israel had ever agreed to – and likely the best it ever will). Revolutionaries often become obsolete once peace occurs. By all accounts and appearances, those leaders interested in running a civil government stayed in Fatah. Those interested in running a martial effort stayed in Hamas. For Hamas leadership, peace means putting yourself out of a job.

    At present, enough Palestinians rejected the election results and Hamas post-election inability to transition from guerilla army to civil government that there are now, in essence, two Palestinian “pre-states.” One – and only one – of those states has shown a willingness to work with Israel. I have long believed that the best approach is for Israel, the west, and any Arab neighbors who want peace, to work to make Fatah a successful, prosperous, safe, stable, competent government. Let it stand in stark contrast to what Hamas has to offer, which is more violent confrontations, and no long term prospects. The comparison can make a great, world-wide object lesson in how in the end honey really does catch more flies than vinegar. (Alas, BushCo wont learn that in time, but I think the American electorate might have already.)

  • Dogs bark, cats meow, Republicans lie.

    This cuts straight to the point. They are not lying as part of some carefully calibrated strategy. They are lying out of reflex. Opponent says something that could be dickishly misconstrued, ergo they dickishly misconstrue. It is part of their nature as much as it is a part of any given strategy.

  • Megalomania –

    I might agree with your point about Sodium Pentothal except for the fact that Chris Matthews was asking the question of known fabulist, prevaricator and outright lying weasel, Terry MacAuliffe.

    You know, the guy who now thinks the Super Delegates should now make their selection based on who wins Puerto Rico?

    I’m not sure that even under the most intense of chemicals would MacAuliffe be capable of saying a complete sentence without spinning the truth.

  • meanwhile, according to ha’aretz, > 60% of israelis want to talk to hamas. just sayin’

  • Actually, I’m more in Jimmy Carter’s camp on this issue than Obama’s.

    Unfortunately, due in part to our electoral college (which we should dump), all presidential candidates have no choice but to take hard-line positions on the Israeli-Palestinian issue (as opposed to a more balanced position).

    In fact, both Israel and Palestine have blood on their hands in this dispute, and we’ll never get it resolved as long as we (i.e. the American electorate) insist on letting the politicos bully any of us who see the benefit of talking with persons who were democratically-elected by insisting that we support “terrorists” (as per their limited definition).

    I suggest that voters read Carter’s book, among others, and make up their own minds.

  • Hey, MagaloDementia: As “the Other Ed” pointed out, the Democrat in need of “sodiyum penthothal” was well known Lincoln Bedroom Pimp Terry MacAuliffe, professional coordinator of White House high donor pajama parties.

    And head of the campaign for the candidate you’re still stupid enough to support.

  • It is a lie to say, as Bignose does, that “The English treated the Irish better” than the Israelis have treated the Palestinians. More than a million Irish died during the potato famine, a period during which English colonial policies forced Ireland to continue exporting food– then as now fanatics devoted to the free market refused to abide any restraints on trade. As a result, Ireland remained a net exporter of food throughout all the years of the famine. Before that, Elizabeth and Cromwell devastated the island. In contrast the Palestinian population has grown by a factor of 6 since 1948. Half live in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. Those under occupation endure difficult circumstances– all the more reason for the establishment of a Palestinian state through negotiation, rather than the continuance of the conflict through terrorism and asymmetrical warfare.

    The same scholar states “Describing Israel as a “Vibrant Democracy” is disingenuous at best – A theocracy run by a bunch of clerics would be more accurate. Olmert is about to go down in a bribery scandal involving an american businessman.” First of all, the idea that because Olmert is facing legal troubles Israel is not a democracy is ridiculous. On the contrary, the exposure of corruption in high places is a hallmark of the rule of law. With regard to the theocracy issue, it is true that Israel does not separate religion and state as we do in America. But that does not mean it is not a vibrant democracy. The vast bulk of its Jewish population lives highly secular lives. The power of the religious parties is a result of coalition bargaining in the Knesset, where the religious parties play the game of proportional parliamentary representation to get what they want. Like our democracy, Israel’s needs reform but freedom of expression and freedom of religion are not under threat in Israel.

  • If two countries are friends – really truly friends – then the friendship can withstand disagreement and criticism. The US and Israel are friends and both act like hypocrites: “A hypocrite pats you on the back in front of your face, and slaps you in the face behind your back.” If we don’t settle our differences eventually it won’t matter, we will put an end to ourselves. Enough already! It’s time to put a stop to all the madness before the madness puts an end to us.

  • ME Moderate said:
    Not to hijack a thread about Repub lies and turn it into a ME policy debate, but here goes anyway. . .

    If people object, I’ll let it go. Personally, I think a discussion of the Israeli – Palestinian conflict is more useful than continuing to agree with CB’s original post. But I’m just a guest here.

    I will grant you that pre-Abbas Fatah clearly had no real interest in governing. But I think it hard to look at the Fatah territories now versus the Hamas territories now and say that the Fatah effort to overthrow Hamas was a Bay of Pigs-like fiasco.

    You didn’t read the article I posted the link to, did you? It tells how the Bush administration has fouled up the Palestinian conflict so badly that it will take years to stabilize.

    But being democratically elected is not a blank check. If you are firing rockets into civilian populations, it really doesn’t matter if you are run by the elected, the appointed, the inherited, or the junta. You are still doing wrong. That you are “democratically elected” does not legitimize bombing sidewalk cafes full of families with children.

    I agree. But the United States should expect a proportional response from an ally we support and arm. The rockets fired into Israel rarely hit anything, so they cause little damage and almost no casualties. The collective punishment Israel imposes on the Palestinian people in response is counterproductive. Not once has Israel or the United States given the Palestinian people incentive to stop the people who launch the rockets. Instead of a carrot and stick, the Israelis have used a stick and a club, and then bullets and then bombs.

    I abhor attacks against innocent civilians, but Israeli military policy all but encourages them. If Israeli civilians are attacked, the Israeli army counter-attacks against individuals and buildings. If Israeli military personnel are attacked, the Israeli army destroys entire city blocks. If Israeli government officials are attacked, the Israeli army levels entire neighborhoods.

    Since the Fatah/Hamas split, Hamas suffers the same problem that I believe led Arafat to scuttle the Clinton deal at the last minute (despite it being the best offer Israel had ever agreed to – and likely the best it ever will).

    The offer was to have several separate Palestinian city-states connected by roads controlled by Israel. Israel promised not to block the roads, but Israel has not honored similar promises. There was no possible way this proposal could result in a viable Palestinian state.

    I have long believed that the best approach is for Israel, the west, and any Arab neighbors who want peace, to work to make Fatah a successful, prosperous, safe, stable, competent government.

    And yet every time the Palestinian people start to feel the slightest glimmer of hope, the Israeli hammer comes down, the barricades go up and the Palestinians become convinced again that Israel is not serious about peace. The Israeli approach has been “an eye for an eye”. The problem with that is that Israel is, in effect, giving a few Palestinian extremists a veto over the peace process.

    We already have a blueprint to end this conflict. In the 1970s and 1980s the Irish Republican Army was at it’s most violent. In 1991 they even fired a mortar against number 10 Downing Street. At the same time the Irish economy was the worst in western Europe. Last year the IRA and their Protestant counterparts signed a power-sharing agreement and, not coincidentally, Ireland had the fastest growing economy in Europe.

    A fundamental element of terrorism, which few Americans (and no one in the Bush administration), seem to understand is that terrorists have to hide among their own people. If those people have nothing to lose they will support, or at least not act against, the terrorists. If the people have prosperity and hope, then they will oppose the terrorists to keep them from upsetting the apple cart.

    If the Palestinians and the Israelis are to coexist, then both sides have to prosper. American aid to Palestinians has been a pittance. Israel’s campaign of confiscating Palestinian land and locking the Palestinian people behind ghetto walls has only made things worse.

  • Dan S – Several points
    I was really talking about more modern history – Comparing the actions of England two hundred or so years ago to what has happened in the last twenty or thirty is apples and oranges. England was a much different country then. I would hope to hold modern day England, as well as Israel, to a higher standard when it comes to Human Rights.

    Of course Israel is a democracy – I was using hyperbole. But as you acknowledge, it is also a “Jewish state”, and I would say that they cannot serve two masters. In the knesset, arabs hold 10% of the seats, while making up 20% of the population, and if you factor in the occupied territories, the numbers look even worse. Does the US have its own problems in the area? Yes. Are we talking about the US right now? No.

    When I mentioned Olmerts problems, I was really conflating two issues – I meant to preface that with a point about how the Israeli Government is just a corrupt as pro-Israeli advocates like to say the PA is. – My bad – I’m typing at work in a hurry.

    All I’m looking for is a little parity. THe US gives Israel 3 billion a year in cash and military hardware. The Palestinians get squat. Previous posters have made dead-on points about how unreasonable it is to expect the PA to become more democratic under these conditions. Carrots and sticks, for sure. Don’t forget the carrots.

    Back to history: I don’t care about England during the potato famine, I don’t care about the creation of Israel, I don’t care about the six day war, I don’t care about who was the original settler of the land 10,000 years ago when it was part of the fertile cresent, I don’t care who bombed who first – “he hit me” ” he hit me first” “nu-uh” ” ya-huh” – Stupid children, all of them, who need their toys taken away and given a time out. We need to learn from history, without being stuck in the past.

    And I’ll repeat this point: Israel, nominal democracy that it is, and ally of the US, needs to be held to a higher standard when it comes to human rights. Us too, which a Democratic administration will (Hopefully) bring.

  • Bignone said:
    And I’ll repeat this point: Israel, nominal democracy that it is, and ally of the US, needs to be held to a higher standard when it comes to human rights. Us too, which a Democratic administration will (Hopefully) bring.

    Damn straight!

    Conservatives rail against “moral relativism”, but I embrace it.

    The United States should always behave better than anybody else.

    Our allies, especially the ones we supply with weapons, should always behave better than our enemies.

  • Steve T
    I have heard the term “Moral Relativism” many times in the last several months – In several threads, and, most memorably, from the Pope in justifying an anti-abortion position. Sometimes, I think I know what the term means, other times, not so much. I just looked it up on Wiki, and there was more there than I have time to plow through now.

    I can see where it applies as you have used it, but beware! “Moral Relativism” is a little like “Activist Judges”, I think – I depends on what morals you relate to.

  • Bignose said:
    I can see where it applies as you have used it, but beware! “Moral Relativism” is a little like “Activist Judges”, I think – I depends on what morals you relate to.

    I embrace the term “moral relativism” as well as “activist judges” and other Republican boogeyman words deliberately so they can be rehabilitated — and so Democratic “leaders” can use them instead of hiding under their desks and soiling themselves at the mere thought of having those words and phrases attributed to them.

    I’m wandering far afield here, but I support the appointment of people whom conservatives label “activist judges”. I want judges sitting on the bench like the ones who ruled in:

    Brown v. the Topeka Board of Education, which found that racial segregation in schools was unconstitutional.

    Loving v. Virginia, which found that laws against interracial marriage were unconsititutional.

    Griswold v. Connecticut, which ruled that it was unconstitutional for states to outlaw contraception.

    And I oppose “conservative” judges, like the ones that ruled in Dred Scott v. Sandford that property rights to a slave took precedence over human rights or other considerations.

  • Perhaps writer Jeffrey Goldberg, a conservative, now has a better appreciation of the duplicity and flat-out lying that is the trademark of leading Republican neo-cons and kneejerk Bushites, how damaging they can be, how absent principle and how wrong — when the country needs truth as never before — they so frequently are. Perhaps he will write about that.

  • Megalomania,
    If you’re going to post comments considerably longer than CB’s own posts, it might help if you put at least half as much care into making them readable. If you’re really only as semi-literate as your writing makes you seem, then I’d suggest you brush up on spelling and grammar, because any points you try to make are going to be undercut by your unintelligibility. On the other hand, if you’re not actually semi-literate but just sloppy, then you’re not showing much respect for the community here and are going to end up either ignored or justifiably flamed. If English is your second language then your abundant errors would be more understandable, but in any case it’s very difficult for people to take you seriously if you don’t know how to write decently—or if you simply don’t make the effort. I don’t mean to play literary critic here, but DAMN!

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