House to take up Limbaugh resolution

Here we go again. Last week, congressional Republicans struggled to see through their crocodile tears just long enough to push resolutions condemning MoveOn.org for its “Betray Us” newspaper ad.

Next week, it’ll be Dems’ turn. From Greg Sargent:

I’ve just learned that Rep. Mark Udall (D-CO) will be introducing a resolution in the House of Representatives on Monday condemning Rush Limbaugh for his “phony soldiers” remark.

This is significant because it has the potential to dramatically up the stakes in this fight. If the Democratic leadership allows it to go for a vote, it will force all the Republicans in the House to either vote for it, against it, or skip the vote — and to pass judgment on the powerful conservative talk show host’s contention that troops who don’t support President Bush’s war policies are “phony soldiers.”

It will also potentially present the Dem leadership with a not-so-easy choice. Many people will naturally call on the leadership to allow the resolution to come to a vote, which is not necessarily something the leadership might want, since it could look like a tit-for-tat reso in retaliation for the measure condemning MoveOn. It also is potentially problematic for some in the leadership because there is an internal sentiment that it’s not Congress’ job to go around denouncing the remarks, however reprehensible, of private citizens.

Following up on a post from the other day, it’s not exactly encouraging to think we’ll have competing congressional resolutions every time a person or group of political significance says something intemperate. Political posturing certainly has its place, but part of the problem with the Republicans’ apoplexy over the MoveOn ad was its inherent silliness — the GOP had nothing better to do, so it chose to waste time hyperventilating over a newspaper ad, instead of, you know, legislating.

On the other hand, Glenn Greenwald presents a compelling case: “[S]everal people express the unquestionably valid concern that it is inappropriate, even McCarthy-ite and dangerous, for Congress to start formally condemning private political speech. That is true, and if we had a healthy political system, that would not happen. But, as the MoveOn vote demonstrated, we have the opposite of a healthy political system, and it is thus far preferable — for reasons I set forth here — to ensure that a corrupt standard is applied equally rather than allow it to be applied by one political faction against another.”

OK, but can the Limbaugh resolution be the last of these? Maybe we can call it even?

In related news:

* The AP finally did an item about all of this, but included an error: “In a transcript of Thursday’s show posted on his Web site, Limbaugh said the comment followed a discussion of Jesse Macbeth, who was sentenced to five months in prison earlier this month for collecting more than $10,00 in benefits to which he was not entitled.” That’s plainly false — the “phony soldiers” comment did not follow a discussion of Macbeth.

* Mitt Romney has joined John McCain in criticizing Limbaugh’s comments: “Governor Romney would disagree with the negative characterization of those men and women who serve with honor and distinction in the United States Military. There may be disagreements with individual opinions, but no one would ever dispute the fact that those members of the military who disagree with the war have earned the right to express that opinion.” Rudy Giuliani, who could barely contain himself in going after MoveOn, remains shy.

* For all his denials, Limbaugh must be feeling somewhat embarrassed by all of this — he posted a touched-up transcript on his site. Was the original too accurate?

Before offering the resolution, someone should take the time and dig into the archives for some other right wing venom: some come to mind — O’Reilly, Coulter, Hannity, Robertson, and their ilk, as well as plenty of congressmen from the ‘wrong’ side of the isle…

It wouldn’t be a surprise to me that the resolution would need to be censored just to be read into the records.

  • This is why our side has been at a competitive disadvantage – we don’t fight the battle in front of us, and instead try to fight the battle we wish we were fighting.

    For the Democrats, actual legislating is largely an exercise in futility; anything worthwhile will be blocked by Senate filibuster, or, if it were to pass the Senate, by Bush veto. Don’t kid yourself – the Dems have nothing better to do than this crap either.

    (Personally I think the Dems should take a page from the previous session’s Republicans and pass the “constitutional option” destroying the Senate minority’s ability to filibuster. Ah, to dream.)

    In game theory, the optimum strategy for dealing with iterated conflict is “tit for tat.” An opponent will know that any attack will instantly and invariably met with a similar counterattack. This discourages attacks, as they never gain any lasting advantage. So the Limbaugh condemnation is both appropriate and necessary. It shouldn’t even be a question.

  • I’m all for this resolution, and I’m all for the tit-for-tattiness of it, if it’s done to ridicule the repubs’ ‘solemn outrage’ over MoveOn. The best way to halt this silliness is to take it over the top and rub the repubs’ noses in it. Assuming they still have two brain cells to rub together, repubs will quickly realize their side has many more over the top commenters to be embarrassed about if they insist on playing this game.

  • If the Congress censures Rush, MoveOn should do an ad defending his/their right to freedom of speech.

  • The republican party grows sillier and sillier, and reminds me lately of old, male-menopausal men with nothing better to do but cry, pass resolutions, and compare the size of their growing breasts. It’s why I joined the libertarians.

  • And see Greenwald this morning, where he reports that FoxNews.com has accused our generals in Iraq of “betraying” their troops and their mission, of caring more about “their precious careers and reputations than their soldiers” and saying that “we should be putting these generals on trial.” To be consistent, the Senate needs to condemn not just Limbaugh, but Fox News as well.

  • No, we don’t “call it even”.

    Everyone should do as Obama did.
    Don’t dignify this silly junk with a vote.

    Limbaugh is an ass, moveon is a little out there… This is NOIT worthy of Congress’ time. Every second you do this crap is a second we don’t prosecute Iraq war contractors for bilking the US government and other worthy pursuits.

    The bad guys would like little more than for us to spend time on this worthless stuff to make their accusations of a do-nothign congress become TRUE.

  • jimbob @2
    Exactly wrong.
    They should codify the right to filibuster. We’ll need it someday.
    What would teh last 6 years have been like if Dems didn’t have guns to their heads? (They shouldn’t let the bastards pull the trigger. The filibuster was dead if they can’t use it anyway.)

    If the GOP refuses, THEN pull the nuclear option just long enough to codify the filibuster. Ironic that you destroy something to save it.

  • The Democratic strategy should be to discuss the things that matter, and go tit for tat on every distraction that derails the process to remove that arrow from the quiver and return to the business at hand.

    Unilateral disarmement has not allowed us to move beyond silliness. We can’t move beyond it until we neutralize it. Roshambo ends when we take our turn.

  • I’m afraid I can’t agree. With a war going steadily from bad to worse in two countries, and the VP and his band of merry men pushing hard for another – is this really going about the business of the nation? Rush Limbaugh is a fat useless blowhard, and the only people who take him seriously can never be moved anyhow. Maybe I just don’t understand American politics.

  • I’m going to shrug and say “might as well”. But I don’t think it will work. Ten years ago the GOP might have cared about some semblance of intellectual consistency but today they clearly do not. Today they care about their party before anything else and aren’t afraid to show it. I doubt that many of the Republicans who were so quick to attack MoveOn.org will be willing to be shamed into attacking their allies similarly.

  • OK, but can the Limbaugh resolution be the last of these? Maybe we can call it even?

    This is exactly why the resolution should be introduced. One reason is to call attention to how silly the Repub MoveOn resolution was, one is to try and harm Limbaugh with the mainstream the same way the Right has demonized progressive groups. But the main reason is that there will never be a cease fire on this sort of nonsense if the Rethugs think they can keep the upper hand. There is simply no reason for them to stop. Only when we start hitting back in kind will they have the slightest incentive to agree to “calling it even.”

    It may not be as substantive as fighting back over an unjust war that is killing thousands, I’ll grant folks that one, but with this Democratic congress’ history of rolling over, it may be that we have to learn to walk before we try and run. At this point, any pushback is good pushback.

  • > ensure that a corrupt standard is applied equally rather than allow it to be applied by one political faction against another

    Exactly. I remember several times recently — the California governor’s recall, the nuclear option — where the dems said “ooh, just wait until it’s our turn to use that trick” and then guess what? When it was their turn they didn’t do it! When the playing field isn’t level you gotta bring out your backhoe and build your own damn hill…

  • As I see this, Mr. Limbaugh has attempted to take the nation one step closer to a construct by which soldiers would, prior to service, be required to take an oath of loyalty to the president, his policies, and his political party. How did MoveOn do something that could even hold a candle to such nonsense? Clearly, Rush-ya wants to promote a neoconservative breed of Japanese Shintoism—whereby the Emperor is deemed to be divine, thus beyond reproach, and the troops his loyal, indentured samurai-for-life.

  • “Congress shall make no law . . . abridging the freedom of speech, . . . ”

    A resolution condemning protected speech has the chilling effect of suppressing free speech through intimidation, and violates the First Amendment.

    Doesn’t anybody care about what the Constitution actually says anymore? Democrats or Republicans?

    As individuals these shameless politicians can posture and pander all they want, but they can’t use the government to suppress the rights of the people.

  • But the main reason is that there will never be a cease fire on this sort of nonsense if the Rethugs think they can keep the upper hand. There is simply no reason for them to stop. – zeitgeist

    I agree with zeitgeist. Letting them continually get away with this unanswered is death by a thousand cuts. As a Dem I do feel it’s beneath us to even dignify this crap, but at some point you have to stand up to the playground bully. Once he knows you’re not gonna take it anymore he’ll stop.

  • How about a citizens’ resolution pushing for the bozos in congress to grow up and respect freedom of speech, and to get on with running the country?

  • What would teh last 6 years have been like if Dems didn’t have guns to their heads?

    Uh, pretty much the same. What castrated the Dems?. You could make a long list of reasons (hostile media environment, 9/11, misplaced “centrism”), but fear of losing the filibuster, if it made the list at all, would have been an important reason. By contrast, a filibuster-free Senate could be far more muscular in opposing the war and forcing Bush to actually veto things instead of hiding behind 40 senatorial votes.

    The Senate is already a highly non-representative institution, with small (especially rural and western) states holding massively disproportionate influence. Having it also wield the power of the filibuster is just stupid.

    As to the Dems needing the filibuster someday, I’ve seen no indication that they were willing to use it even when they had it; otherwise most of the Bush program would never even have passed. This is another “keep our powder dry” argument – an excuse to do nothing and accept impotence.

  • A resolution condemning protected speech has the chilling effect of suppressing free speech through intimidation, and violates the First Amendment.

    Neither Moveon nor Limbaugh were harmed by these symbolic measures. Hell, MoveOn turned it into a fundraising bonanza (please don’t throw me in that briar patch!). This is political smashmouth. Any shrinking violet who’d be intimidated by this crap would have left politics long ago.

  • No doubt the Democratic “leadership” in the House will oppose bringing the resolution up for a vote. Nice job Nancy.

  • I’d rather see Democrats beating up these guys up on our own time. Let Republicans be seen as the ones yammering about frivolous resolutions while Democrats are trying to move the business of government. I would hope though, to see a prominent Democrat or two on every Sunday talk show tomorrow, on every cable new show for the next week including Fox and flooding the zone with op-eds repeating “Limbaugh, Limbaugh, Limbaugh. Fox, Fox, Fox. Betrayal, Betrayal, Betrayal,” till they’re blue in the face. Democrats are definitely showing signs of improvement in the PR wars but they’re still not playing in the Republican’s league with any kind of consistency.

  • This is just fucking dumb, but coming on the heels of something even dumber, well. Logic and reason don’t work well when dealing with children, especially bratty ones like the ‘pubs. Time to rub the Repubs’ noses in it and smack’em in the ass.

  • This is one time when a justified condemnation should be pursued because Rush has had both president and vice president on his show and soon a SC justice. The senate called Move on a far left organization and are using it to smear democrats. The same should be applied to a far right organization because of who is “directly” associated with it. They condemned dissent with condemning Move On’s ad and here is Rush condemning dissent by insulting those in uniform who don’t go along with his and Bush’s policies.

    The republicans opened this can of worms and are playing it for all the mileage they can get out of it. It’s fate and not coincidence that Rush made such comments allowing the Dems the same (and far more appropriate) opportunity to call out the republicans and Bush/Cheney for worse behavior. For dems not to take advantage of this opportunity will only make them look spineless and dupes of the GOP.

  • The thought of Congress condemning speech was repugnant yesterday, it is repugnant today, it will be repugnant tomorrow.

    The Democrats can use this opportunity to take digs at the elected and appointed officials who appear on his show. Private citizens can arrange boycotts of advertisers. Anything else is bullshit.

  • The only way this resolution condemning Limbaugh will work is if attention is continually shifted away from the entirety of what LImbaugh actually said. It’s no help to nail someone by using one piece of speech (the ‘phony soldier’ comment) and then purposely failing to include the example and context of that which you are condemning. I’m surprised AP actually did some homework on this rather than just throwing up what MediaMatters said and walked away. Probably a new hire working late on a Friday who wasn’t up to speed as to how things operate there.

    Limbaugh went to his example of what he meant by a ‘phony soldier’ immediately after the soldier had his say as a caller. That MediaMatters purposely didn’t include a portion of the show directly related to the issue it was exercised about is telling. Because Limbaugh didn’t bring up his example Jesse Macbeth case within what — 1 and a half minutes — of initially invoking ‘phony soldier’ that the two aren’t inextricably linked?

    That’s pretty thin stuff, especially considering there’s plenty of other things you might be able to nail Limbaugh on without intentionally leaving out things. And that this all happens just after the Petraeus ad looks like Democrat sour grapes. Probably because it is. At least Republicans didn’t have to manufacture theirs.


  • On September 29th, 2007 at 12:00 pm, Jen Flowers said:

    If the Congress censures Rush, MoveOn should do an ad defending his/their right to freedom of speech.

    I LOVE it!

    Not only does it make the “resolution” condemning MoveOn look like the piece of silliness that it is, it redeems MoveOn for the Nancies who thought it went too far!

    Jen, you are a JENius!

  • Limbaugh is a jerk often enough. But I was listening to that show and he did NOTsay that soldiers who called for withdrawal are phony soldiers. He was referring to a couple of guys who never even went to Iraq or anywhere or any combat at all, who made up lies about seeing atrocities. People in the media and in the government have a responsibilty to verify events and statements before spreading falsehoods around as news. That’s actually slander. Limbaugh ought to sue all of you for slander.

  • Look, all of this energy that you put into your hype and smear campaigns would be better spent on finding someone who can do the job of the commander in chief better than the last guy.

    Junior Senator —Nope
    Wife of a President—-Nope
    Short rich white guy that does photo opportunities with poor black people and then says soon all black males will be dead or in jail.

    –You gotta be kidding, right?

  • the limbaugh/hannity TR empire got us here

    without the uncontested repetition of the talk radio monopoly to tens of millions of Americans every day we wouldn’t be in this mess. it has completely distorted this ‘democracy’. it was /is rove’s most important tool.

    by ignoring the growth of the TR monopoly, of which limbaugh was an important part, since reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine, progressives/liberals/democrats made a huge political blunder.

    most still wonder what went wrong the last twenty years to allow this small minority of certainty freaks in the GOP to take over and blame it on this or that. but the reagan and gingrich “revolutions” wouldn’t have happened (or been interpreted as such), without the TR monopoly.

    and we wouldn’t have had this bush disaster without the national and local GOP blowhards making excuses for bush and distorting and attacking and lying about his opposition without worrying about being corrected. to continue to ignore them because they give thinking people headaches is dumb strategy.

    this opportunity should be used to its fullest to at least alert the country to the TR problem or progressives will continue to get slammed by these chickenhawks and armchair generals and the invisible two by four of talk radio.

  • So does this mean that Jesse (the Hero) Macbeth wasn’t a phoney? That should be in the resolution too then. Maybe give him a medal while they are at it.

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