‘I doubt we are going to have a million screaming Germans’

July 24, 2008

Chatting with reporters last night, Barack Obama was asked if he expected a million screaming Germans to greet him in Berlin today. “I doubt we are going to have a million screaming Germans,” Obama said. “Let’s tamp down expectations.”

That’s probably a very good idea, but it’s hard to deny the international interest in the speech in front of the Tiergarten’s 226-foot high Victory Column. I have no idea how to judge the size of the crowd, but I’m watching the coverage, and there sure are a lot of people on hand for Obama’s event.

I’m watching the MSNBC coverage, and the Obama campaign has a live feed going.

ABC’s Jake Tapper had a good report.

Obama said tonight’s address will not be “a wonkish policy speech…We started working on it about two weeks ago, about two weeks ago.” The speech “was in pretty good shape a couple days ago and now we’re just kind of tooling around with it.”…

Did he look to the Ronald Reagan and John F. Kennedy speeches about Berlin for guidance when writing his own? he was asked.

“You know, they were presidents,” Obama said, ” I am a citizen. But obviously Berlin is representative of the extraordinary success of the post World War II effort to bring the continent together and the West together and then later to bring the East and the West together so, so I think it’s a natural place to talk about it.”…

“Hopefully it will be viewed as a substantive articulation of the relationship I’d like to see between the US and Europe.”… He added that “there’s no doubt that part of what I want to communicate on both sides of the Atlantic is the enormous potential of us for restoring a strong sense of coming together.”

I’ve heard a fair amount of talk about whether Obama’s ability to draw huge crowds is a good or bad thing.

Chris Cillizza had this item:

A huge crowd today could be a mixed blessing for Obama. On the one hand, it is a potent symbol of the excitement his candidacy has caused worldwide. On the other, thousands and thousands of cheering Germans may not play well stateside.

Does a big crowd work to Obama’s benefit or detriment? Or somewhere in between?

I’m not sure how a leader’s ability to draw international excitement could possibly be a “detriment,” but I guess the media needs something to talk about.

I’m listening to the speech now, and will be back in a bit to offer some commentary and analysis.

Are you watching? What do you think?

Yes, I’m watching. The “detriment” is that most patriotic Americans are weary of even former Commies (this would be especially poignant if Obama could garner a million Frenchmen for his speech too ; )

  • So far, damn good. Some great passages, including a nice riff on Reagan’s comments two decades ago.

    The crowd is cheering enthusiastically and waving small American flags at him. Hard to see how that can be spun into a bad thing, but then again I’ve never tasted McCain’s barbecue.

  • It’s like I told Winkandanod on the other thread:

    Thank God the rest of the world does not get to vote for U.S. President ; )

  • Um… when was the last time a crowd outside of the U.S. (or hell, INSIDE the U.S.) could be seen “waving small American flags” at a U.S. elected official? Hello guys, this is a bunch of GERMANS. Last I was in Germany was 2004, and boy the place was awash in anti-American graffiti like you wouldn’t believe. But my German friends told me: “We’re not anti-American, we’re anti-Bush,” and they were watching the 2004 election with bated breath. They were more disappointed that Kerry lost than we were.

    Only four years later, and here we go. America is awesome again. Now, was that so hard?

  • Like the metric system, small cars, and football, the rest of the world isn’t going to tell us what to do.

  • The “detriment” is that most patriotic Americans are weary of even former Commies

    Yes, because West Berlin was a known hotbed for communists during the Cold War.

    Can we get some conservative trolls in here who aren’t complete idiots?

  • On the other, thousands and thousands of cheering Germans may not play well stateside.

    Yeah, right….cheering people, waving American flags, enthusiastic about the promise of a change from Bush is a bad thing. Yeah, right. Maybe for jackasses pulling godwin’s Law violations at National Review Online, but in the real world, not so much.

    This fact doesn’t get mentioned very often, but Obama’s popularity underscores the fact that Republicans haven’t had a popular political figure since Reagan. Bush lost the popular vote and had the Presidency handed him by a partisan Supreme Court. America overlooked his incompetence and rallied around him after 9/11 — something Republicans would never have permitted if a Democrat were POTUS — but his popularity has shown nothing but a steady decline, marked by occasional bumps.

    America is sick of the Republicans and ready for something better.

  • JakeD, I believe Davis was mocking you with that comment. And if not, then I am.

    Go wallow in your self-satisfied ignorance elsewhere, and take your fourth-grade emoticons with you.

  • The only problem with Obama drawing large crowds of people who aren’t born and bred Americans is that vacuous, xenophobic twits like JakeD are still munching Freedom Fries. They still think non-Americans, even those of the Free World, as having no say in American politics. They see the enthusiasm of Germans or French or Mexicans or whatever as suspicious. And they’ll use it as a talking point for weeks to come. The see the president’s job as going into other countries and telling them what’s what. So, they’ll see Obama talking and listening to people of “Old Europe” as being an appeaser of the worst sort.

    The good news is, as evidenced in comment number one, these people are already lost to the Democrats. They are stupid and lazy and cannot be swayed. And they are precisely the reason why America has been so very loathed abroad for the last seven years. Let’s write them off.

    Bringing people together is critical for our future. Not just in America, but worldwide. Real patriotic Americans love our country not because we’re better than anyone else, but because we recognize our place in the world and because we have a history [excepting the most recent seven years] of at least trying to live up to our potential as a decent and honorable player on the world stage.

  • Can we get some conservative trolls in here who aren’t complete idiots?

    And a pony! I REALLY want a pony!

    As for Chris Cillizza, “On the one hand, it is a potent symbol of the excitement his candidacy has caused worldwide. On the other, thousands and thousands of cheering Germans may not play well stateside.”

    Yes, Chris, we can’t have our allies cheering for one of our presidential candidates, that’s just so verboten. It’s so much more effective when the crowd throws rotten vegetables and burns our public figures in effigy.

  • I think Jakey is right — anyone who really loves America should want the rest of the world to hate America.

    (And Jakey, I’m being sarcastic. I am mocking you. I know it’s hard for you to tell.)

  • No, but it is beyond foolish for anyone to actually prefer that we are always standing alone in world affairs. I saw a quote, perhaps in one of yesterday’s posts, about a German saying he had mixed feelings about how much Germany liked Obama because if he asked for additional NATO troops for Afghanistan “It would be hard to say no to him.”

    Precisely.

    One of the very best things about the rapidly approaching end of the Bush Error is the opportunity for the US to have a fresh start internationally. Nearly the entire globe stood with Bush’s father in Gulf War I; even after global outpouring of support after 9/11, Bush the Lesser’s “coalition of the willing” was, beyond Britain, Canada and Australia, largely a farce. When Clinton left office, the United States was widely admired around the world; no so today.

    These are not just academic matters, things that show that we “don’t need them.” (A misguided machismo if ever there was one.) It makes a huge difference in how well sanctions work, for example, and whether embargoes would be a possible option. It makes a huge difference in how much leverage we have against distant governments. It makes a huge difference in tracking movements and finances of terrorists. And it makes a huge difference in American casualties — both in terms of whether others share our combat burden, but another prime example is that Li’l Bush blew the negotiations with Turkey (be assured that neither his father nor Clinton would have), forcing an on-the-fly revision of our entry into Iraq, leaving key strategic components of the force still at sea when the invasion began.

    Being admired rather than despised also helps us win “the street,” helps draw people to our ideals and values — all of which are allegedly the aims of our intervention (i know, i know – it doesn’t mean they’ll relinquish their oil to our megacorporations, so it just doesn’t mean anything useful).

    In short, for any thinking American voter, the interest and positive reaction to Obama internationally — and particularly among our traditional western allies like Germany (it isn’t like the North Koreans have idolized him) should be an unambiguous benefit.

  • (My starting with “No,” in 13 was a response to JakeD at 3. Y’all filled the thread quickly!)

  • The detriment may be that many Americans don’t know jack about Europe and think they are soulless liberal commies or some other silly caricature.

    America Uber-alles!

    His speech makes me hope that we can somehow recapture the working-together spirit that existed in the world immediately after 9/11, before Bush spit in its face and threw it in the trash.

  • Hell of a speech.

    Nice to see a foreign crowd waving our flags instead of burning them.

  • What we’re seeing the repudiation of the the neo-con’s wet dream, the “new American century” in which America was entitled to use its status of “sole superpower” to inflict its will upon the world.

  • Frank:

    I don’t think that they are ALL soulless liberal commies — take Margaret Thatcher, please.

  • Actually, considering that the Bush Administration hasn’t managed to disenfranchise every serviceman and American civilian living aboard, the opinions of foreigners is very likely to effect the vote in America.

    But you can bet the Bushites are trying their best to cage and eliminate those votes.

    Obama sounded pretty good by the way.

  • I watch Colbert every night. He pulls off a terrific spoof of conservative stupidity. Your posts just sound like the real thing.

  • Same goes for the person. above, who urged “Let’s write them off” and then typed the very next sentence: “Bringing people together is critical for our future.” COMEDY GOLD!!!

  • TR:

    I thought that Secretary of Education Spellings held her own against Stephen.

  • The current troll is an embarrassment. We should write to the McCain campaign and demand a replacement.

  • I arrived in London this morning on vacation and watched the speech on CNN/Int (they don’t get MSNBC – damn it). I was impressed by the speech, but the cheering seemed aenemic for the crowd of “hundreds of thousands”. It could have been the channel, but the crowd didn’t seem to be like some of the rousing of those in the US at some of Obama’s speeches.

    I think that it was a great speech, covering the very points that we will again JOIN the world if BHO is elected. The crowd seemed very attentive and appreciative of Obama’s words, it was just the actual cheering that threw me off. (Again, maybe the CNN mics were oddly placed and didn’t pick up a lot of cheering).

    I guess he’s going to be here in London this weekend. I may try to find out where and attend his rally, though I’ve met him several times when he was running for Senator in my orginal home state of Illinois.

  • I’m a German expat, and man, I cried buckets. This was a very symbolic speech for me, and it played very well to the European internationalist sentiments (which here in the U.S. hardly anyone with whom I usually talk understands). And yeah, I was really quite impressed. Just wish I could have been there in person.

    My favorite part was when the crowd spontaneously broke out into “Yes we can,” and you could detect the German accent in the chanting. Man, I love my two countries.

  • The Bush administration has brought shame for our country abroad. The destructive world effect of this administration’s actions has brought out world concern out of necessity to deal with the politics of fear where human rights are so easily discarded in the name of security.

    Disaster capitalism was aimed at world domination through a global market and was expanded to outrageous levels under Bush. To the world population Obama represents a return to sanity for the US, an alleviation of the politics of fear where policy substance replaces policy slogans.

    America’s image abroad was not just tarnished, it was deeply stained the past 7yrs. and Europeans are quick to welcome back what America has always stood for…democracy, justice and liberty. Obama represents an end to the “Bush Error” (to quote zeitgeist at 13 above) and a move toward “reason” and away from selfish profiteering by the few at the expense of the people.

  • Hmmm, I have this thought – let’s make a deal. You make McCain POTUS of America and we make Obama POTUS of Europe.

    After all, he draws larger crowds over here than at home.

  • If we want more help from NATO in Afghanistan, then having more friends is a good thing.

  • Because it must be said: Hitler excited Germans too and look how that turned out. I guess we’re going to have to elect McCain instead.

    If only Obama had attacked Germany instead…

  • TR said on another post”…Hard to see how that can be spun into a bad thing, but then again I’ve never tasted McCain’s barbecue…”

    A more accurate description of how the press will spin and minimize Obama’s speech would be hard to find. If they say anything kind at all it will be through gritted teeth or with repressed resentment.

    By this time it should be…McCain who???

    Is it true that Lieberman and Graham are moving in together. They claim they are not gay but their friendship has become so strong they would like to explore it on another level.

  • Cheering Germans are a bad thing, in 2008? Really?? To who??

    “Oh my God, cheering Germans! It’s like watching ‘Triumph of the Will’ in color!!!”

  • “It is best to be both feared and loved; however, if one cannot be both it is better to be feared than loved.”

    Unfortunately, in these turbulent times, that is the sad reality. It is a sad day indeed that a full half of the American political spectrum looks to European sentiment as a barometer of which direction to head. For those of you who claim this to be “true patriotism,” they had a word for you during Colonial times: Loyalists. You would have been opposed to George Washington and would have been literally tarred and feathered for treason. Ahh, the good old days…

  • John:

    Exactly. They are so blind, they can’t even grasp how Obama’s reception will play in the “fly-over” States. McCain’s briar patch strategy seems to be working very well.

  • Just a note, I think I remember from my history class that Berlin never went for Hitler, being progressive and all that in the 30’s. Hitler never got more than 20% of the vote in Berlin. The left in Berlin was very strong, and yet, they paid a heavy price for a war and a leader they never cared for. Sound familiar? Hitler was elected by the “fly over” parts of Germany.

  • JakeD said: “I already AM “Mary’s” replacement.”

    Hardly true, Mary could write in whole paragraphs and push a thought beyond the first corner of the maze. Also, she was writing from the point of a disappointed Hillary fan. You are just a sad little bigot (as your constant referencing the lie about Obama’s religious identity proves) who is going to vote for the senile old man who doesn’t challenge your prejudices or other stupidities.

  • It’s not a “lie” to acknowledge the possibility (however slight) that Obama is a secret Muslim agent plotting to gain the Oval Office and kill every American. I am not claiming to BE “Mary” — just her replacement — I am, in fact, not even female.

  • JakeD said: “It’s not a “lie” to acknowledge the possibility (however slight) that Obama is a secret Muslim agent plotting to gain the Oval Office and kill every American.”

    Isn’t it a lot more plausible that John Sidney McCain is a “Mancurian Candidate” who will sell our country to China?

    Opps, too late, he has already done it.

  • I have no idea how to judge the size of the crowd, but I’m watching the coverage, and there sure are a lot of people on hand for Obama’s event. — CB

    According to NYT, there were about 200K people gathered there. Here are some pics:
    http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2008/07/24/world/0724-OBAMAGERMANY_index.html

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I don’t think that they are ALL soulless liberal commies — take Margaret Thatcher, please. — JakeD, @19

    “Please”? “take Margaret Thatcher, PLEASE”??? Have we got ourselves a Repub with a sense of humour??? Well, I’ll be…

    Thanks, Jake D; that was priceless.

  • Anyone who thinks that whipping up non-Americans into a pro-American fervor is somehow a bad thing, is not allowed to watch Rocky IV ever again.

    And Jake, in Rocky IV, the crowd was filled with present-day Commies. If Rocky IV can make money, so too can America, with Obama at the helm. 😀

    I’d tell ya to take that to the bank, but then I forget, no one will hire you, so why would you ever go to the bank? Except of course for the free pens.

  • It’s not a “lie” to acknowledge the possibility (however slight) that Obama is a secret Muslim agent plotting to gain the Oval Office and kill every American.

    Yep, just as it’s not a lie to acknowledge the possibility (however slight) that America never landed men on the moon. Your commentary is just as daft as any conspiracy theorist.

    I think Obama’s trip was fantastic. Not meant for anyone really but Americans. The images of him walking as an equal with other leaders of the world will go along way to convince the undecided. And that’s whose vote is up for grabs. You won’t convince lunatics like Jake otherwise. But Obama can convince those with an open and intelligent mind.

  • I know I’m way late with this, but:

    JakeD: Same goes for the person. above, who urged “Let’s write them off” and then typed the very next sentence: “Bringing people together is critical for our future.” COMEDY GOLD!!!

    Touché! I like how you easily uncovered the hypocrisy in my statement. Would that you were as quick to notice the hypocrisy in “compassionate conservatism” and the long, long line of utter hypocrisies promised by McBush. COMEDY PLATINUM!

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