I used to watch debates so you don’t have to

January 11, 2008

I admit it; I have an acute case of debate fatigue. Over the last eight months, I’ve watched every single debate for the Democratic and Republican presidential candidates, most of which were largely the same. In an apparent bid to drive political observers to tears, news outlets and state parties have apparently decided to crank things up a notch, scheduling a barrage of debates all at once.

Last night, believe it or not, was the fourth debate in the last six nights. I mean, really. I live for this stuff, and even I have my limits. So, I skipped it. (I feel especially comfortable missing Republican debates because, well, they’re just so darn similar — “Hillarycare,” “Islamofascism,” “Reagan.” Lather, rinse, repeat.)

So, how about this — I read a bunch of news stories about debates so you don’t have to?

From what I gather, Fred Thompson showed some signs of life for the first time in recent memory, and focused most of his attention on Mike Huckabee, whom he no doubt sees as his principal rival for the support of the far-right GOP base. As far as I can tell, this was the line of the night:

“On the one hand, you have the Reagan revolution. You have the Reagan coalition of limited government and strong national security. On the other hand, you have the direction that Governor Huckabee would take us in. He would be a Christian leader, but he would also bring about liberal economic policies, liberal foreign policies. He believes we have an arrogant foreign policy and the tradition of, blame America first.

“He believes that Guantanamo should be closed down and those enemy combatants brought here to the United States to find their way into the court system eventually. He believes in taxpayer-funded programs for illegals, as he did in Arkansas. He has the endorsement of the National Education Association, and the NEA said it was because of his opposition to vouchers. He said he would sign a bill that would ban smoking nationwide. So much for federalism. So much for states’ rights. So much for individual rights. That’s not the model of the Reagan coalition, that’s the model of the Democratic Party.”

Salon’s Mike Madden responded, “That was just the beginning of the night for Thompson, who was so vibrant, so energetic, so… awake that it almost made you think he was running for president.”

Other observations from other people’s notes:

* McCain was not only thrilled to not have the other candidates going after him, he was especially pleased that Thompson was taking on Huckabee for him.

* There was reportedly quite a bit of discussion about the incident with Iranians in the Strait of Hormuz — Brit Hume said the U.S. military reacted “passively” — prompting some painful answers from the Republican candidates. “I think one more step, you know, and they would have been introduced to those virgins that they’re looking forward to seeing,” said Thompson. Huckabee said if it happened again, the Iranians “should be prepared to see the gates of Hell.” Oh my.

* What about Mitt Romney? Noam Scheiber said, Romney “sounded like a smart technocrat last night–his comments about the recent near-confrontation with Iran was detailed and impressive. This is a winning persona for him. The problem is that technocrats don’t inspire much passion.” Not among Republicans anyway.

* I think Rudy Giuliani is trying too hard to stay relevant. In response to a question on foreign policy, Giuliani squeezed in this canned line: “The kind of change Democrats are talking about is taking the change out of your pocket.” Please.

* Huckabee was asked about his support for a 1998 statement that said a wife should “submit graciously to the servant will of her husband.” Scheiber said he seemed ready for the question: “Huckabee started with a winning comment about how everyone says we should keep religion out of presidential politics and yet he constantly gets questions about his religion. Then he explained that this was a tenet of his faith, not an expression of his politics, and that the full commandement is for both husband and wife be the servants of one another. ‘It’s not a 50-50 split, but a 100-100 split,” he said.”

* The non-Paul candidates seem to enjoy having Ron Paul on the stage, if only because they use him as a foil to score points with the Republican audience. (Fox News, which has made no secret of its disdain for Paul, also mocked him openly, reminding him that he has no chance of getting elected.)

So, did anyone see it? Did I miss anything important?

“He believes that Guantanamo should be closed down and those enemy combatants brought here to the United States to find their way into the court system eventually. He believes in taxpayer-funded programs for illegals, as he did in Arkansas. He has the endorsement of the National Education Association, and the NEA said it was because of his opposition to vouchers. He said he would sign a bill that would ban smoking nationwide. So much for federalism. So much for states’ rights. So much for individual rights. That’s not the model of the Reagan coalition, that’s the model of the Democratic Party.”

wow! huckleberry believes this? maybe he ain’t so bad after all……/snark!

  • CB – First you complain of debate fatigue, and then I see a typo: “Rather, rinse, repeat” – I think you are trying to “humanize” yourself on purpose (kinda like William “the bloody” Kristol claims what Hillary did…)

    Also heard Huckleberry hit right back at Lazy Fred, suggesting that he may have forgotten to drink his “Metamucil”… 🙂

  • Man these newspapers are so wrong on the event. Ron Paul clearly dominated the scene, that is if you watch it through the eyes of an adult. To actually see how the rest of the candidates just unleashed their rehearsed propaganda was next to nothing to what truth Ron exposed. Man Ron seemed to be the ONLY adult on that podium. Everyone joked besides Ron. More important this was the second time he won with a huge leap Fox news question: “Who won the debate?” Mc Cain is totally unelectable as commander in chief being such a warmonger (100 years war in Irak) and making jokes about our enemies. That really hurts me as I have so much respect for McCain and what he went through. I am no Ron Paul advocate but Truth should be told.

  • cb, i think you missed something.

    what rudy actually said was, “The kind of change Democrats are talking about is taking the change out of your pocket. On 9/11!”

  • Who can be blamed for debate fatigue? Or campaign fatigue? An afternoon at the dentist is more fun. The whole debate charade is a media circus from beginning to end, as are these primaries, which can’t be over soon enough for anyone I suspect.

    If the Rethug power elite doesn’t get who it wants (Il Duce Rudee, Robot Romney or Grandpa McCain as a last resort) someone awash in money will suddenly emerge from the wings to ‘save’ them, and I don’t mean their souls (to be a Rethug you have to give up your soul).

    Bloomberg running as an independent is a recipe for a Rethug victory, no matter how much of his fortune he spends on himself. The Rethug dirty tricks squad is more than his billions can handle. Besides he’s Jewish and from New York City. How many strikes does he need against him?

    Does anyone (other than my delusional Democratic friends) really believe Amerika will elect either a woman, a black man, or a Jew? Even in 2008? It would be nice, but ain’t gonna happen.

  • If you have enough debates rapidly enough, the candidates will be exhausted and say something “revealing”. That seems to be MSM’s strategy.

  • Actually, Ohioan, I “like” the obvious typo. If you think about the incredulously-goofy thing that “Dan” did—running a story at maximum speed without checking all the facts for good accuracy first—it’s pretty much identical to what the “good-ol’boy-club” did in that debate last night.

    So to the Great and Powerful Benen, I offer a rousing ovation—you’ve coined a new meaning.

    The “Rather-rinse-repeat syndrome.”

  • I will give the media the point that Fred livened up, maybe he took his viagra or something. But his continuously looking down at his notes was pathetic. It was almost like he knew what questions were going to be asked prior to the debate so he could prepare himself. Just my take though. As far as Ron Paul, I think Wolf Blitzer unleashed something in Paul who was very spirited. The Huck’s “gates of hell” tirade scared the crap out of me. Romney’s lame Ahmadinejad’s newsletter response was pretty bad only to be topped by McCain’s burka joke. The debate was pretty pathetic…luckily as usual Ron Paul was the thorn in the side.

  • At the risk of encouraging them, I have to say the one clip NPR ran this morning of Ron Paul responding to the Iranian war-mongering truly was one of the highlights of the debate season so far.

  • i guess while this debate was going on i was watching the HBO movie “bury my heart at wounded knee”, with fred thompson playing the president (grant) in it.

    he’s a better actor than politician, i think it’s safe to say. good movie, btw.

  • I skipped last night’s debate also. They always say the same outrageous things trying to outdo each other, as if the campaign is a contest to see who can do the best impersonation of Attila the Hun.

    But I have to second the other commenters who have expressed appreciation for the contributions of Ron Paul to these debates. I missed him terribly in last Saturday’s debate on Fox Propaganda. Paul is the only one who calls “bullshit” on these guys, and he has to be a thorn deep in their flesh.

    You have to admit it – Paul makes more sense than any of the other Republican candidates. But that is certainly damning Dr. Paul with faint praise.

  • Maybe Thompson’s more energetic now, because there’s not chance he’ll actually win. Perhaps what he wanted all along was just to position himself for a cushy ambassadorship in a gentle, sunny locale.

  • Somebody needs to ask huckabee if he thinks Armageddon could happen soon.

    That guy is a nutcase.

  • I felt physically ill hearing their responses to the Hormuz incident, especially given the evidence snowballing toward the conclusion that the Navy fabricated the entire radio transmission.

    We’ve been here before, running in slow motion, shouting ‘no’ at the top of our lungs only to have Washington completely ignore us. The rhetoric is the same; the prevarication is the same; and the successful passage of an ‘authorization’ is the same. Every mallet strike against the drums of war is deja vu all over again.

  • You have to admit it – Paul makes more sense than any of the other Republican candidates. -OFM

    Sure, when he’s talking about ending the war. He’s eloquent and right. A perfect foil for the rampant stupidity which is the very essence of his competitors but…

    ..then he wants to abolish the IRS and implement the (un)FairTax, which is one of the most destructive, disingenuous ideas ever propositioned in our Government.

    Why start a war with Iran, when you can start a violent class war at home?

  • Here was my favorite:

    “Romney said Paul had been reading “too many press releases by (Mahmoud) Ahmadinejad,” the Iranian president.

    “Make fun buddy,” muttered a clearly irritated Paul.”

    Reaaly, these Republican debates aren’t to be missed just for the entertainment value – almost as much fun as Stewart and Colbert

  • I wrote this up this morning, then had to leave. I was so hoping to get in the first words on this thread. 🙁
    ———-
    Watching the Republican’t debate last night (I only managed to handle one hour of it) was quite insightful. Once again John McCain was trying to pretend he was the adult in a room full of children. McCain’s trying to berate Ron Paul on his position on Iraq was most amusing. Paul’s answer was devastating:

    PAUL: “I’m talking actually about that, because that’s what we have been doing. We used to support Saddam Hussein and we used to be allied with Osama Bin Laden, and what I want to do is stop that.

    Who are our friends one day turn out to be our enemies. Right now, we finally got rid of Saddam Hussein. And what are we doing now? We’re re-arming the Sunnis, the old henchmen of Saddam Hussein.

    And what are they going to do with it? There’s all those weapons we’re giving the Sunnis in Baghdad. So look out, believe me, that war is not over and right now they’re demanding more troops in Afghanistan and we’re — some people, like the Senator, he thinks we should be there for 100 years if necessary.

    How can he commit the young people of this world, five more generations, to be in Iraq if it’s necessary? I say it’s time to come home.”

    And McCain is standing there with his ‘John Cage Smile Therapy Grin’ just to underscore the sheer disdain McCain has for anyone who disagrees with him (not to mention the sheer seething anger he must have been suppressing).

    But then we mustn’t criticize him for suppressing his anger, anymore than we criticized Hillary for suppressing her tears.

    And McCain wasn’t the only one Paul managed to rip into yesterday. His reply to Guiliani’s “Israel is our special ally” of “yah, then why do you send three times the military aid to Israel’s enemies?” should have just cut to the bone.

    And every booing was against someone taking on Ron Paul.

    It was like watching a Basset Hound (McCain), a Coon Hound (Thompson), a Miniature Doberman Pinscher (Guiliani) and a Poodle (Romney) each in turn try barking at a Bull Terrier (Paul). Not hard to figure out which one is going to win.

    Even Huckabee had a try:

    HUCKABEE: “But my final seconds, I’d like to just, with all due respect, Congressman Paul, the issue of whether the president should be in the Middle East comes to something that I think we’ve got to recognize.

    We’ve got one true ally in the Middle East, and that’s Israel. It’s a tiny nation. I’ve been there nine time. I’ve literally traveled from Dan to Beersheba, and I understand something of that nation and the vulnerability of it.

    And for us to give the world the impression that we would stand by if it were under attack and simply say, “It’s not our problem,” would be recklessly irresponsible on our part.

    And if I were president, you can rest assured that we would not let an ally be annihilated by those enemies which is surround it, who have openly stated it is their direct intention to destroy that nation. It would not happen under my presidency.”

    PAUL: “In many ways, we treat Israel as a stepchild. We do not give them responsibility that they deserve. We undermine their national sovereignty. We don’t let them design their own peace treaties with their neighbors. And then we turn around and say that, when you want to do that or you want to defend your borders, they have to check it out with us.

    I think Israel would be a lot safer. I made the point earlier. We give three times as much money to the Arabs. Why do we arm their enemies? So if you care about Israel, you should be against all the weapons that go to the Arab nations.

    And I just don’t see any purpose in not treating Israel in an adult fashion. I think they’d be a lot better off.

    I think they, one time in the ’80s, took care of a nuclear reactor in Iraq. I stood up and defended Israel for this. Nobody else did at that time.

    But we need to recognize they deserve their sovereignty, just as we deserve our sovereignty.

    I believe that if they assumed more responsibility, there would be more peace there and that there would be a lot less threat to us. Besides, we don’t have any money to do this.”

    So Paul seemed to have a pretty good night, and the Fox viewer poll went for him. Then again:

    CAMERON: “Congressman Paul, many of your supporters call themselves 9/11 Truthers. They believe that the U.S. government was in some way complicit with the 9/11 attacks or covered it up.

    Are you tonight prepared to either embrace that rhetoric or ask those supporters to abandon it, or divorce themselves from your candidacy?”

    PAUL: “Well, I can’t tell people what to do, but I’ve abandoned those viewpoints. I don’t believe that, and that’s the only thing that is important. And so I don’t endorse anything they say.”

    So what you are saying Congressman is that you once held the view that the U.S. Government WAS complicit in the 9/11 attacks?

    And there was Hume trying to imply Paul was too old by lowering his voice:

    PAUL: “So what — I just don’t see this rush to judgment [that the Iranian speed boats were provocative].”

    HUME [in a clearly lowered voice]: “Well, wait a minute. All of these people I’ve asked this question to so far have said they supported the decision to be passive. What are you responding to?”

    PAUL: “I’m very sorry, I can’t hear a word you said.”

    (APPLAUSE)

    “You’ll have to speak up.”

    HUME [clearer]: “Every one of these — of your fellow candidates have said they supported the commander’s decision to respond passively. I just wonder what you’re reacting to.”

    PAUL: “Well, I didn’t hear that. Of course we want caution. But I’m worrying about the policy of why we’re looking for a justification. Now there are no weapons, actually people are looking around for an excuse to bomb Iran.

    I mean, we’re already, with our CIA, being involved in trying to overthrow that government, and we don’t need another war. And this incident should not be thrown out of proportion to the point where we’re getting ready to attack Iran over this.”

    Maybe Thompson rallied in the last half hour, but I think it was clearly Paul’s night, with Huckabee doing rather well.

  • I’m glad to hear CB finally reached his limit — I was beginning to worry. The last Republican made for TeeVee event that I saw was somewhere between a third-grade name calling contest and a junior high debate in which the kids spout positions overheard from their parents, with little or no context or understanding of what it is they’re saying. From what I’ve read here and elsewhere, this one doesn’t sound much different.

  • *The kind of change Democrats are talking about is taking the change out of your pocket.”

    Our national debt is $9 trillion.

    If Americans have change in their pockets, it means they’ve miraculously dug us out of the hole Dubya and Reagan made for us.

    There’s two parts to the wifely submission thing and evangelicals hate the second part.
    Husbands are to take counsel of their wives.
    The wife is not your pet who obeys you. She’s your Board of Directors and you do what she says if she’s got the better ideas. Not that I expect many of these guys to EVER believe their wives’ ideas are better. Still, it bears mentioning.

  • I’m all for the wifely submission thing. It’s just so hard to get her to put on that leather outfit.

  • McCain insulted moderate Islamic nations with his burka response to Paul’s rational comments about Israel’s ability to broker peace agreements with their neighbors. Bunching all Islamics into one type is a big mistake.

    Thompson never addressed what he would do with the 12million illegal immigrants.

  • dudley: “Perhaps what he (Thompson) wanted all along was just to position himself for a cushy ambassadorship in a gentle, sunny locale.”

    i’d add to that… of his wife’s choosing.

  • Thompson does one thing only …smear and insult. He has no policies and no plans of any value. Ask him a question and he turns it into a means of smearing or condemning someone. He’s a loathsome human being who is a phony to the max.

    Paul is the only rational republican when it comes to the occupation or foreign (ME) policy. This alienates the attack dog republicans who believe a .45 is the only way to settle disagreements.. Guiliani is almost completely irrelevant now and it is way past time.

    CB…pretend the debates and the campaigns are not there for a second and ask yourself what you would be writing about right now if that were so. For instance…when will Siegleman be freed, how do we stop telecom amnesty, and when will congress hold this administration accountable??? How do we reverse the “real ID act”, the MAC, the patriot act, and is SCHIP going to end? Forget the campaigns for awhile and do us all a favor.

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