I watch debates — so you don’t have to

The good news from last night’s Republican debate in New Hampshire is that no one endorsed torture. The event lasted two hours, and the subject never came up. The bad news is these guys aren’t necessarily opposed to using nuclear weapons against Iran.

CNN’s Wolf Blitzer asked, “If it came down to a preemptive U.S. strike against Iran’s nuclear facility, if necessary would you authorize as president the use of tactical nuclear weapons?” The obvious answer is, “No.” The preferable answer is, “Are you crazy?”

But these guys seemed completely open to the idea. Hunter said, “I would authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons if there was no other way to preempt those particular centrifuges.” Giuliani responded, “I think it could be done with conventional weapons, but you can’t rule out anything and you shouldn’t take any option off the table.” Gilmore added, “All options are on the table.” Romney said the same thing.

Later, Ron Paul described all of this as lunacy. “Tonight, we hear that we’re not even willing to remove from the table a preemptive nuclear strike against a country that has done no harm to us directly and is no threat to our national security! I mean, we have to come to our senses about this issue of war and preemption.”

That would be nice.

After every debate, the obvious questions are about who won, who lost, who gained most, etc. Last night, in this respect, was rather uneventful. Michael Crowley wrote, “And the winner is…no one! I don’t think anyone really changed their standing.” Jonathan Martin added, “The big story out of this third debate seems to be that there is no big story.”

I’m very much inclined to agree (but keep reading anyway). It’s unlikely that this is the kind of debate that people will still be mulling over, say, tomorrow.

That said, we nevertheless learned a few things.

Rudy’s partisan strategy. In the very first GOP debate, the candidates hardly mentioned Democrats at all. In the second, there was a joke about John Edwards’ haircut, but not much else. Last night, Giuliani went after Dems relentlessly. Practically every question was a chance for the former mayor to bash the majority party.

“The problem the Democrats make is they’re in denial”; “During the debate the other night, the Democrats seemed to be back in the 1990s”; “What the Democrats suggested on this stage two nights ago was socialized medicine.” On and on it went. It looks like Giuliani has decided to prove his conservative bona fides by being as hyper-partisan as he can be.

Bush gets some time in the sun. In previous debates, none of these guys wanted to talk about the president. Blitzer realized this, so he asked several pointed questions about Bush last night, leaving the candidates little choice. The president didn’t fare well — at one point, Tancredo said he has “been so disappointed in the president in so many ways,” and that he would tell Bush to “never darken the doorstep” of his White House. Much to my surprise, the audience applauded.

Law and order party? All of the candidates expressed some sympathy for convicted felon Scooter Libby, the same day he was sentenced for lying and obstructing justice after exposing the identity of an undercover CIA agent. Giuliani was particularly inane, calling the charges “incomprehensible,” and insisting that “there was no underlying crime.”

Get that man a dictionary. Asked about whether the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, Romney, more than once, called the question a “null set.” He apparently has no idea what that means.

Rudy gets a sign. Blitzer asked Giuliani about a Catholic bishop in Rhode Island who said his position on abortion is “similar to Pontius Pilate’s personal opposition to Jesus Christ’s crucifixion but allowing it to happen anyway.” When Giuliani started to answer, lightning struck and disrupted his microphone. He looked up jokingly — and lightning struck again, prompting McCain and Romney to start moving away from Giuliani.

Getting social. Several candidates, especially Giuliani, relentlessly bashed “socialized medicine.” They have no idea what the policy means, but that didn’t stop them. The entire healthcare discussion was painful to watch; these guys are clueless.

Best of the second tier. Huckabee got the least amount of airtime, but continues to impress with thoughtful and articulate answers. I dare say “eloquent.” I frequently wonder why the GOP won’t even consider this guy, and frankly, I’m kind of glad they don’t.

McCain alone on immigration. McCain was forced to defend his immigration plan on his own last night — everyone else took shots at it — but he did an admirable job holding his own. He also was the only candidate to question the utility of making English the official language, and gave a compelling answer about how immigrants “enrich” American culture.

First Amendment hugger. Ron Paul gave a reasonable defense for the separation of church and state, thus ensuring that he’s going to lose.

Se habla, Romney and Rudy? Romney wants English to be the official language, and was the first candidate to run a campaign in Spanish. He couldn’t really explain why. On a related note, Giuliani endorsed English as the official language after saying the opposite as NYC mayor.

Family Values. Late in the debate, Tancredo seriously suggested that immigrants, once they arrive here legally, should “cut your ties with the past, familial.” In other words, blow off those foreign relatives, they don’t matter anymore. None of his GOP colleagues agreed.

I have a couple of other observations that I’ll save for separate posts, but on the whole, these 10 candidates are surprisingly unimpressive. No real substance, no real expertise, nothing beyond soundbites. It was kind of depressing.

damn, blitzer is jonesing for a tactical nuke hit against iran. his job is to plant the idea and gradually make the idea of a u.s. nuke first strike acceptable — something he’s been doing for the past year

  • Sounds like the winner was Ron Paul. If he’s still in by the Vermont primary, I might just vote for him. Of course in the general, I’ll vote for the Dem, whoever it is.

  • “Giuliani was particularly inane, calling the charges “incomprehensible,” and insisting that “there was no underlying crime.””

    Yeah, because it was a Republican who committed it.

    “Several candidates, especially Giuliani, relentlessly bashed “socialized medicine.” ”

    Ron Paul’s opposition is a principle (however misguided I might feel it is) whereas Rudy’s is based on principal–Perdue Pharma–the makers of OxyContin–Rush’s drug of choice– is a major client for his consulting “crisis management” agency.

  • Can we agree not to say “tactical nuclear weapon?” It’s a nuclear weapon, ok? The word “tactical” only serves to make the idea more palatable to all the idiots out there, which apparently includes all the Republican presidential candidates, except Ron Paul.

  • Instead of calling it the Republican Presidential Debate, it should be renamed Obfuscation on Parade & How to Dodge, Sidestep, & Ignore a Question.

    It was especially offensive that when the woman from the audience who had lost her brother, a Veteran, to the U.S. Military Occupation of Iraq, of the candidates who were allowed to answer, all of them — to a man — either ignored or sidestepped her question — “when can we leave Iraq?” It’s a shame Mr. Paul was not given a chance to respond.

    Also, I thought Mit Romney really lived up to his title of Game Show Host when he said “I love immigrants.” What a disgusting panderer.

  • Could someone kindly explain to the GOP that poor people with anti-biotic resistant TB may not be flying next to them for European jaunts, but they might be nannies, maids, caterers, or pool boys and oddly enough, they’re just as capable of spreading disease.

    I know it’s hard to thing about, but the poor and you are teh same species. Germs don’t care if you have a different opinion.
    Socialized medicine is for your benefit too.

  • Could someone kindly explain to the GOP that poor people with anti-biotic resistant TB may not be flying next to them for European jaunts, but they might be nannies, maids, caterers, or pool boys and oddly enough, they’re just as capable of spreading disease.

    I know it’s painful to think about, but the poor and you are the same species. Germs don’t care if you have a different opinion.
    Socialized medicine is for your benefit too.

  • By the way- there are Christians in Iran, and Iran shares a border with Armenia, the oldest Christian nation on Earth. Dropping a nuclear bomb on Iran would kill Christians, not just Moslems. If for no other reason, this fact may make the rabid fascists pushing this insane idea think twice.

    I’m pretty sure if Japan was populated with white Christians, we wouldn’t have nuked them either.

  • “If it came down to a preemptive U.S. strike against Iran’s nuclear facility, if necessary would you authorize as president the use of tactical nuclear weapons?”

    Not that it excuses the responses in any way, but this is a thoroughly damnfool question, as phrased.

    If necessary, would you do it?”

    Wolf, by definition, you have to do what’s necessary. And what’s necessary is for you to run your questions by someone else first before you ask them.

  • Thank you CB for watching the morons debate.

    I am sure my television wouldn’t have been able to survive it.

    I love the part about Rudy getting a sign. LOL!

  • Thanks, CB, for watching the Republican debates so we don’t have to. It’s a filthy, disgusting job – but someone has to do it!

  • Asked about whether the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, Romney, more than once, called the question a “null set.” He apparently has no idea what that means.

    That must be why they’re selling him as beauty, not brains.

  • In one line of an old JA album, it’s noted that Long John Silver sees a thousand countries all the same/some of the men are crazy/some of the men are sane . . . . It seems only Ron Paul fit the latter bill last night in the so called Republican debate. I hope Republicans can find their way home now that the Bush vision has gone blind. -Kevo

  • ***…these 10 candidates are surprisingly unimpressive. No real substance, no real expertise, nothing beyond soundbites.***

    That would make them perfect fodder-puppets for the political machinations of “Chancellor Cheney….”

  • and how about rudee’s comment that the invasion of iraq was justified because who would leave saddam in power after he helped the terra-ists……..

  • Thanks for the references James, #17. After reading them, I have concluded I will not vote for Ron Paul in the general election. I’d probably still vote for him in the primary though, just to weaken whoever the Republican front-runner is at the time. I voted for McCain in 2000 for the same reason.

  • Who would torture more, who would use nukes quicker, who would build the biggest wall around the US, who hates gays the most … the Repub primary is a race to the bottom of the looney bin. Don’t gangs act like this? The craziest MF that everyone fears the most gets to rule? Bush set the template that the most resolutely insane person gets to be the leader of the Republican party. Pity for us.

  • “Giuliani was particularly inane, calling the charges “incomprehensible,” and insisting that “there was no underlying crime.””

    Wolf missed (again) a perfect follow-up: would he have resisted impeachment of Clinton, as there was no ‘underlying crime’ there as well?

    Personally, I only watched about one minute of the debate. I turned it on just in time to see one of the anti-evolution candidates (I’ve forgotten which one- all those white guys look alike to me) praise God and go on and on about how he would bring God to the White House, or something. I turned it off right after that.

  • CB, put me down for a big thanks for summarizing last night’s debate. You also gave me a few chuckles which I am sure I wouldn’t have had if I had watched that beauty show.

  • Who would torture more, who would use nukes quicker, who would build the biggest wall around the US, who hates gays the most …

    For a minute I thought the republix were adding planks to their platform……

  • gg wrote: “Giuliani was particularly inane, calling the charges “incomprehensible,” and insisting that “there was no underlying crime.””

    Wolf missed (again) a perfect follow-up: would he have resisted impeachment of Clinton, as there was no ‘underlying crime’ there as well?

    I think the real reason the Rethuglicans tried to impeach Clinton was because he was getting blow jobs – something that they probably have to pay for.

  • “If your foreign policy was so ignorant and clumsy as to force a crisis involving Iranian nuclear capability, and people were telling you to ‘pre-emptively’ attack their nuclear facilities, would you choose to end over 60 years of worldwide refusal to use nuclear weapons, setting a precedent that nation’s should use nuclear weapons not just in warfare, but for geopolitical purposes?”

    “Would you increase your holdings in oil stocks before doing so?”

  • Asked about whether the invasion of Iraq was a mistake, Romney, more than once, called the question a “null set.” He apparently has no idea what that means.

    Romney has a “null set” alright. Just another Rovian proto-typical pandering politician, trying to give the “right” answer to get elected. An amoeba has more principles — no offense to the amoeba.

    Later, Ron Paul described all of this as lunacy. “Tonight, we hear that we’re not even willing to remove from the table a preemptive nuclear strike against a country that has done no harm to us directly and is no threat to our national security! I mean, we have to come to our senses about this issue of war and preemption.”

    Remember, this was in response to the question “what is the biggest moral issue facing this country?” Mr. Paul was the only candidate to address the crises caused by the Bush imperial foreign policy as a moral dilemma. By the way, while Mr. Paul was making this statement, Rupaul Giuliani could be heard incoherently muttering “that’s not right.”

    I wonder, has Mr. Giuliani completed his reading assignment from Mr. Paul, to actually read the 9/11 Commission Report? Until such time, Mr. Giuliani, no talking during Mr. Paul’s lecture.

  • Il Rudi is a monster, but he’s not an idiot: he understands that the main “principle” of the Republican Party today is conspicuous hatred of Democrats. As a man for whom hatred comes particularly easily, he’s well positioned to win that fight.

    The most surprising moment of the debate for me was agreeing with Tommy Thompson about reforming the health care system. What he said wasn’t sufficient (no mention of the uninsured), but it was necessary: switching to a preventative care model and modernizing records. The funniest moment was the aforementioned “How would you use George W. Bush?” question. I only wish Blitzer, that worthless toad, had asked the “top-tier” guys instead of losers like Thompson and Gilmore.

    Semi-related, I think Gilmore might be the most Bush-like candidate in the race. He’s the guy who thinks he has a right to fail upward: his term as governor of Virginia was so lousy that the state’s Democrats immediately began to win elections there.

  • Can we agree not to say “tactical nuclear weapon?”

    Fair enough. Especially when the premise of the question was a strike at a strategic target. Unless Wolf was imagining the Army using its surplus Davy Crocketts as the opening salvo of Operation Make Iran Go ‘Way Now.

  • What I mostly heard last night was the chorus on stage singing that old familiar tune, “Praise God and Pass the Ammunition”. Empty suits, all.

  • I just love JKap’s (#6) referring to Romney as a “game show host.” What a great meme to spread.

    So many Republican talking heads prefer to talk of Romney as “presidential”, but his demeanor and look don’t remind me of any president that I know of.

    “Game show host” is most definitely a better fit. (And a bad game show at that.)

  • Haik Bedrosian,

    I’m pretty sure if Japan was populated with white Christians, we wouldn’t have nuked them either.

    I know its off-topic, but I thought you might like to learn that Nagasaki and Hiroshima were the cities with the largest populations of Christians in Japan. Kinda ironic, eh?

  • I watched some before I could take no more of it. Then it hit me. The repubs should nix their debates and primaries altogether and stage a ‘reality show’. I’m thinking, ‘Survivor: Mayview’. Every week, the sanest candidate gets voted out of the asylum. The last one left becomes the nominee. I suspect they’d get the same result as with their primary races.

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