I watch debates, so you don’t have to — Part XII

Maybe presidential candidates are less aggressive early in the morning, but yesterday’s 8 a.m. debate in Iowa was surprisingly docile. If the YouTube debate was the event at which the gloves came off, yesterday was time for the gloves to go back on.

John Edwards said Hillary Clinton “did a terrific job” in fighting for health care in the 1990s.

Clinton said Joe Biden was “absolutely right” in describing how difficult it is going to be to get out of Iraq.

Chris Dodd said, “I agree with what Hillary has just said here” about mere mortals not being able really to understand “the wisdom and power of God.”

If debates are intended to be opportunities for candidates to create contrasts between themselves and their rivals, yesterday was largely a friendly get-together. On Middle East policy, Barack Obama said, “I don’t actually see that much difference” between his position and those of his critics. A few minutes later, John Edwards added, “[T]he differences between us, whether it’s Senator Clinton or Senator Dodd or Governor Richardson or Senator Biden, all of whom I have enormous respect for, the differences between all of us are very small compared to the differences between us and the Republican candidates, who the best I can tell are George Bush on steroids.”

To be sure, this isn’t a complaint or a criticism. I was actually kind of relieved — the temperature seemed to be rising in recent weeks, and I was afraid that if things got really ugly in August, the animosity would be dangerous by the winter. I suspect, therefore, that yesterday’s pull-back was intentional — the campaigns implicitly understand that there’s no real value in taking pot shots when most voters aren’t particularly engaged anyway.

Stephanopoulos did his level best to goad the candidates into attacking their rivals, probably because it makes for better television. The very first question of the debate was: “Senator Biden, you stepped into this last week. You told Newsweek magazine that Senator Obama is “not yet ready” to be president. Senator Clinton, is he right?” (Clinton didn’t take the bait.)

I guess I can’t say I was surprised by Stephanopoulos’ efforts, but after a while, it was rather comical. At one point, the ABC host said, “I want to move on to another issue we’re hearing about a lot from the voters from Iowa in the poll. More voters wrote in questions for us on the issue of Iraq than any other single issue. They all wanted to know what your plans were to get out of Iraq, and to get out safely from Iraq.”

It came 25 minutes into the debate, after a protracted discussion about whether Dems should find Obama qualified, and whether they should find Clinton electable. If we have to wait nearly a half-hour in a 90-minute debate for a substantive question, it’s a problem.

Worse, given the limited time constraints, this was one of the least serious questions of the campaign season: “We’ve got a question — we’ve got an e-mail question from Seth Ford of South Jordan, Utah. And he said, ‘My question is to understand each candidates’ view of a personal God. Do they believe that, through the power of prayer, disasters like Hurricane Katrina or the Minnesota bridge collapse could have been prevented or lessened?'”

C’mon. I like outside-the-box thinking as much as the next guy, but we need to know whether the candidates think prayer can stop bridge collapses? What kind of question is that? (For what it’s worth, Obama nailed the answer: “Most of the issues that we’re debating here today are ones that we have the power to change. We don’t have the power to prevent illness in all cases, but we do have the power to make sure that every child gets a regular checkup and isn’t going to the emergency room for treatable illnesses like asthma. We may not have the power to prevent a hurricane, but we do have the power to make sure that the levees are properly reinforced and we’ve got a sound emergency plan. And so, part of what I pray for is the strength and the wisdom to be able to act on those things that I can control. And that’s what I think has been lacking sometimes in our government.” Nice.)

There was also this odd question from Robert Malzarek (ph) of Montgomery, Alabama: “Unlike many others, I think that candidates may tell the truth, just not the whole truth and nothing but the truth. For example, when advocating a position or action, candidates downplay or simply ignore the likely negative side effects. Can you name a major issue where you didn’t tell the whole truth and describe what you left out?” In other words, candidates, please talk about some lying you’ve done. (Dodd nailed the answer by changing the question: “Well, I’ll tell you one issue that I wish I had done more on, recently. And, I think, maybe one of the worst votes cast in the Congress, maybe in the last 20 years, was last fall, on the Military Commissions Act, in which we allowed the abandonment of habeas corpus, returning to torture, and abandoning the Geneva Convention. I thought about filibustering that bill, and I didn’t do it. I regret that deeply. I can’t think of a worse vote we cast, to walk away from the Constitution of the United States.”)

As for winners and losers, I think Obama won the day, Richardson had his best debate yet (arguably, his only good one), Dodd got screwed (again) with far too little airtime, and Gravel looked sillier than usual.

What about you? What’d you think?

I didn’t watch it, but I’m not surprised by Obama’s performance. Even though he’s not my first choice in the primary, I’d be very pleased to work and vote for him if he ends up winning the nomination. In my opinion, and from what they’re saying, there isn’t a “bad” candidate in the bunch. This is the best field of Democrats I can remember in 37years as a Democrat and a voter.

There. Now I’ve joined the lovefest.

Good morning!

  • I voted for Kucinich in that abcnews.com web poll, even though I thought Obama won. It doesn’t matter anyway. The election will be Clinton/Edwards vs. Romney/Whovever.

  • I had a couple thoughts after watching this debate.

    One is that I kind of like a format that seems more like a discussion, which is what both This Week-moderated debates were like, but if you’re not considered a top-tier candidate, you don’t get to say much; if the point is to hear from all the candidates, in a format that is not the typical one, then figure out how to bring fairness to it.

    The other thing that struck me is that it is an exceptionally well-qualified field (comments on Kucinich and Gravel shortly), and looking at the eight people on that stage, it was easy to see that they all could have a meaningful place in the administration of any of them who happened to end up being president.

    Kucinich and Gravel…sigh…I think they have every right to run, to put themselves out there for the people, and to express their views and ideas. I also think that every campaign can use a few people whose function seems to be to yank the others back into the real world, who can sort of force the others to get down in the trenches with the average voter. Since we pretty much know neither man will be the nominee, I’ve started viewing them like ants at a picnic – you know it would be more enjoyable without them, but they’re inevitable, so you just take it in stride.

    Rather than have a Kucinich or a Gravel, though, I would like to see, at each debate, one randomly chosen voter who could stand on the stage and have an opportunity to respond to what the candidates say, force them back on the subject, pin them down on important questions, and throw out the occasional, “Are you freakin’ kidding me?” It’s clear that the moderators can’t do this, so why not let Average Joe or Average Jane stand on equal footing, and participate in this job interview?

    I have to say that I would rather have the problem of having too many qualified candidates than none. Looking back to last week’s GOP debate, I wonder how on earth Republicans can choose someone out of that crowd who would come even close to being competent. If you want more Bush-like administrations, no problem, but if you’re looking for something to go in a new direction, to put the country back on track, I don’t think you can vote Republican this time around.

  • Dems will need a new politics of inclusion if they are going to govern well in the aftermath of Bush. So much talent and skilled service was assembled on that stage being encouraged to play a survivor style game of cut throat elimination. The big picture demands cooperation and teamwork between the Dems.
    Edwards said to the questioner, “I understand that you are trying to start a fight”.
    It’s time for the Democratic candidates to elevate the discussion and deprive the media of it’s spectacle of pig wrestling in the mud.

  • ABC shows Kucinch wiping the competiton—and waxing Clinton -Edwards COMBINED? I ‘ve got to break out my old Mickey Mouse ears for this election cycle, because I think Dennis could mop the mat with anything the GOP is putting into the ring right now—and he’s been doing a better job of addressing various issues than the other candidates….

  • Chris Dodd said, “I agree with what Hillary has just said here” about mere mortals not being able really to understand “the wisdom and power of God.”

    Please, Dodd and Clinton, don’t be modest for me. I understand all too well the “God” thing.

    Stephanopoulos was trying to start a fight, but none of the candidates took de bait.

  • I keep on waiting for the Democratic candidates to ask these obviously partisan Republican’t moderators “did you ask the Republican’ts loaded questions like this?” and/or pointing out the partisan hatchet jobs the moderators have been doing to the Democratic candidates whilst simultaneously fellating the Republican’ts.

    “So, Judas Maximus, did you ask the Republican’ts the same thing? Did you ask Romney if he thought McCain was right when he called Giuliani a lightweight?”

    Funny how all the crappy political bomblet questions are reserved for Democratic debates…

  • Dodd had a fly on his head during his answer to the last question. I’m ashamed to admit I was laughing to hard at this that I didn’t hear his answer.

    Seriously, the fly was on there forever. I don’t think he felt it.

    I do agree with TCB about the absurdity of the two questions he highlighted: “Admit when you’ve lied,” and “Do you think prayer can alter physics and make bad stuff stop happening?” Appalling that those would even be asked.

    I’m sick of Edwards telling me what the question really is (a trap Obama also falls into occasionally) and I’m sick of Edwards and Hillary saying they aren’t going to talk about hypothetical situations. Isn’t that how we find out what they’d do in certain situations? Sure, I can understand not answering them definitively, but to avoid addressing them at all is cowardly.

    Kudos to Gravell for asserting Cheney should be committed. Kudos to Kucinich for repeatedly pointing out the time bias. Sorry, I’m all out of granola bars for the rest of the candidates.

  • It is so difficult to stay tuned in when we are given such nonsense and ridiculousness over and over again.

    The powers-that-be (and we can often include the politicians and parties as well) keeps feeding us this drivel and we keep eating it up.

    Maybe we do deserve the government we get? Maybe we all deserve this current administration to some degree and we all need to take responsibility for it because we keep accepting the inane parameters that are shoved down our collective throat.

    I am convinced that it is the ludicrous venue of these adolescent debate formats that make some of the candidates look like clowns!

    I heard Gravel on a Public Radio hour-long interview. What a difference a dignified venue makes. Whether one agrees or not with Gravel’s views, it was unquestionable that he came across as a reasoned, articulate, experienced, thoughtful, thorough, forthright, and forthcoming candidate. Hardly the image he is reduced to in these so-called debates.

    We mostly form our opinions based on an incomplete picture that has been fed to us by powers that have larger hidden agendas. I don’t think any of this coincidental.

    In every “debate” Gravel cautions us on what we are hearing because all the talk of money and programs have long ago been bought and sold by these hidden agendas and the public, for all intents and purposes, is not invited to the table.

    Nobody ever follows up on Gravel’s claims. If you notice, most of the candidates look down when Gravel accuses the system. Like the unprepared student in class looking down and hoping the teacher doesn’t call on he or she, these candidates too are also hoping not to be called. I would have to think that they are mostly embarrassed for this scam because in their heart of hearts they know Gravel is speaking much truth.

    Not to worry – Lehrer, Stephanopoulos, Mathews, Olbermann, or whoever isn’t going to ask the question and those that would will never ever get near a microphone.

    We all know the game is fixed. We all know that money is the real string puller. We all know that for any candidate to get to the paydirt label of “serious” candidate has already made their various deals with the various “devils.”

    And yet we keep buying it. Why?

  • Still, no one is touching what I feel to be one of the more important issues of the day:

    Who wants to be the first candidate to step up and say that he/she would immediately, and without predjudice, upon taking office, clearly and without reservation repudiate any and all executive power grabs that are now in place? This entire business of the ‘unitary executive’? Grasshoppers are quite loud.

  • Anne said: If you want more Bush-like administrations, no problem, but if you’re looking for something to go in a new direction, to put the country back on track, I don’t think you can vote Republican this time around.

    Exactly. At this rate, anyone who can survive the Republican primary is going to be dead meat in the general election, which about the only good thing Bush ever did. Of course some of the Democrats will see this historical opportunity as a good time to push for the same DLC bullshit “centrism” (right wing crap masquearding as populism).

    As for the idea of having “at each debate, one randomly chosen voter who could stand on the stage”

    I vote that someone like Anne be the randomly chosen voter. As for an actual random American, I’m afraid we’d get an idiot.

  • My question is to understand each candidates’ view of a personal God. Do they believe that, through the power of prayer, disasters like Hurricane Katrina or the Minnesota bridge collapse could have been prevented or lessened?

    I thought that was a brilliant question. Clinton assumed the guy was a religious nut, and went on to say she was big into praying. Obama caught the fact that the guy weaved in a man-made recovery failure and a man-made bridge collapse into a very clever question. Like you said, Obama nailed it.

  • “[substantive issue – Iraq policy] came 25 minutes into the debate, after a protracted discussion about whether Dems should find Obama qualified, and whether they should find Clinton electable. If we have to wait nearly a half-hour in a 90-minute debate for a substantive question, it’s a problem.”

    Makes me happy that I watched Chris Mathews first 😉

  • Once again you are led by the nose to ignore the best candidate out there. Anne mentions Kucinich in the same sentence with Gravel as if the two are related in some way and they aren’t. Kucinich’s numbers have soared from these debates because it’s the only time anyone gets to hear him speak and GS did everything in his power to keep Kucinich from being heard. Anne relates Kucinich to an ant at a picnic and obviously has been led by the MSM to discount him without ever having looked at him seriously or listened to what he has to say. The top tier candidates just wish he’d go away because he so far outxhines them that there really is no comparison. Yet without any justification, he is ignored and belittled because his name has not been mentioned as much as the other names.
    Kucinich is the only candidate who walks the walk as he talks the talk. Oh how well he handled George Stephanopoulos’s smear tactics on his Sunday show when he tried everything to make Dennis look bad but came out looking the fool himself. George was visibly angry which is why he virtually left Dennis out of the debate in Iowa. Kucinich is tough as demonstrated by how well he handled Rumsfeld at the Tillman inquiry.
    Dennis is the only candidate who at the debate sponsored by the AFL/CIO said he would withdraw us from the WTO and end NAFTA. Kucinich voted against the War authorization, against the Patriot Act, against the Military Commissions Act. Against the war funding bill and FISA without having to wait around to see how others voted.

    He has ALREADY introduced legislation for single payer not for profit national health care ins., and brave enough to introduce articles of impeachment against Dick Cheney. His plans for withdrawing from Iraq and redeploying forces is much like the other candidates but with the agenda of seeking World peace by example rather than just to protect American (corporate) interests. The man is as near the perfect candidate as is possible and if funding were equal to run the ads the others run he would top all the other candidates. It’s an insult to refer to him as an ant at a picnic when he is more like the caterer who has brought the feast. 40 years he’s been in public service and a better, more qualified candidate would be hard to find.
    But for some reason the “he’s not electable so let’s not pay any attention to him” logic originates from the MSM who can find nothing negative to say about him. So without even listening or being able to justify their position people just automatically neglect him as if following in some nonsensical trance.

    A Kucinich/Edwards or Kucinich/Obama administration would be perfect. Remember, we are not nominating someone you’d like to have a beer or glass of wine with. We are nominating a president.

  • I wrote the religous question… my follow-up question seems to have been dropped. which was “If you don’t believe in miracles or intervention, why do you pray?” I also put together another question which I didn’t submit….

    If you where to pick a persona for your God would he 1) Be a father too busy to spend time with his children 2) An overprotective dad 3) A Gambler that loves to roll the dice or 4) A very caring father who is locked away. But knew they would rather take the first one…

    Anyways I enjoy Richard Dawkins as much as I religious intellectuals like C.S. Lewis and Harold Bloom.

    Personally I think I should ask the republicans if they believe God to be a capitalist, socialist or communist. That might get them dancing… Faith is such a dicey question it’s always fun to start to poke into the real bits of belief.

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