I watch the debates, so you don’t have to

After skipping a couple of Republican presidential candidate debates lately, I thought it was time to get back in the game. After all, the field is down to just four candidates, which led me to believe that last night’s event, at the Reagan Library in California, might be a little more substantive than most. Indeed, it also seemed likely to be more lively, given that, for the first time in a year, there’s an obvious frontrunner, who seemed like an obvious target.

Alas, I was quickly reminded as to why I gave up on watching these things in the first place.

There was one exchange that was particularly heated, and which will probably draw the most media attention today. The LAT’s Janet Hook asked, “Obviously Iraq is still a major issue in this campaign, and over the last few days there’s been a real back and forth going on here. Senator McCain has said over and over again that you supported a timetable for phased withdrawal from Iraq. Is that true?” Romney responded:

“Absolutely unequivocably [sic] — (chuckles) — if I can get that word out — unequivocably [sic], absolutely no. I have never ever supported a specific timetable for exit from Iraq, and it’s offensive to me that someone would suggest that I have. And I have noted that everyone from Time Magazine to Bill Bennett over there, to — to actually, CNN’s own analyst. He said it was a lie, and it’s absolutely wrong. I do not support that, never have. […]

“Raising it a few days before the — the Florida primary, when there was very little time for me to correct the record, when the question I was most frequently asked is, ‘Oh, you’re for a specific date of withdrawal,’ sort of falls in the kind of dirty tricks that I think Ronald Reagan would have found to be reprehensible.”

McCain responded:

“Well, of course, he said he wanted a timetable before that. We have to understand that we lost the 2006 election and the Democrats thought that they had a mandate. They thought they had a mandate to get us out of Iraq. And I was prepared to sacrifice whatever was necessary in order to stand up for what I believe in….

“April was a very interesting year [sic] in 2007. That’s when Harry Reid said the war is lost and we got to get out. And the buzzword was ‘timetables.’ Timetables. Governor, the right answer to that question was ‘no,’ not what you said, and that was, we don’t want to have to lay — have them lay in the weeds until we leave, and Maliki and the president should enter into some kind of agreement for, quote, ‘timetables.'”

And from there, we were treated to a back-and-forth squabble that seemed to last for hours. How bad was it? It took Ron Paul to help make sense of the bickering.

“[W]hen I listen to this argument, I mean, I find it rather silly because they’re arguing technicalities of a policy they both agree with. They agreed going in, they agreed for staying, agreed for staying how many years, and these are technicalities. We should be debating foreign policy, whether we should have interventionism or non-interventionism, whether we should be defending this country or whether we should be the policeman of the world, whether we should be, you know, running our empire or not and how are we going to have guns and butter.”

Paul received more applause than he’s heard at a GOP debate in quite a while.

The truth is, the endless squabble over whether Romney backed “timetables” for withdrawal in April 2007 — objectively, he did not — didn’t do either candidate any favors. For his part, McCain was lying, and it was pretty obvious. As for Romney, the underlying point — that Romney was not enthusiastic in support for the Bush policy in Iraq — is fair, and he was trying to weasel out of it. Worse, by spending what seemed like forever bickering over a one-sentence comment from April about Iraq, Romney wasn’t able to talk about the economy, which is safer ground for him.

As for the bigger picture, since there were only four candidates on the stage, let’s go one at a time:

McCain: The frontrunner appeared tired and a little confused at times. Worse, he was intentionally deceptive more than once — on the “timetables” thing and when he told the audience that he voted twice to make Bush’s tax cuts permanent. If McCain had a strategy last night, it was hiding well. Slate’s Chadwick Matlin wrote, “As my Trailhead colleague Mr. Beam pointed out, he’s the senile grandfather you let prattle on because it’s too sad to tell him to shut up.” Will any of this change the dynamics of the race overall? I doubt it.

Romney: He’s actually become a pretty good debater, but his goal for the night was to score some points at McCain’s expense. I didn’t see that happening last night. Indeed, I saw more of Romney trying to be too slick for his own good, such as refusal to answer a question about whether the U.S. is better off now than it was eight years ago.

Huckabee: Huck clearly has the best rhetorical skills of the GOP field, but he got screwed last night with very few questions, and at times, one forgot that he was even on the stage. I did notice, though, that at one point in the debate, Huckabee said, “You can’t have a president who sees a whole bunch of America as invisible.” Isn’t that almost the exact same line that Hillary Clinton used in her Iowa ads?

Paul: At one point, early on, after some discussion between the other candidates, Paul said, “I would like to take one minute, since I didn’t get a chance to answer this discussion on conservative versus liberal…” at which point Anderson Cooper cut him off. “I promise you we’re going to have a — you’re going to have another opportunity to do that, I promise you, coming up in like two minutes, or two questions,” Cooper said. He broke his promise, and Paul wasn’t heard from again for quite a while. Paul, for his many faults, at least kept some of the other debates interesting with an untraditional perspective. Last night, CNN ignored him altogether.

So, what did you think?

RE: Republican Debate January 30 2008 – Simi Valley, CA. – Reagan Library

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!! Ron Paul is fighting for us. Now we have to fight for him! Anderson Cooper’s conduct at tonight’s debate is inexcusable! If CNN has any journalistic integrity at all; THEY MUST TAKE ACTION AGAINST ANDERSON COOPER! Anderson Cooper MUST BE FIRED!!! This cannot go unanswered. Our nation’s media must be held accountable. The Soviet era “Pravda” would have been more fair!

  • Yesterday, for the first time I decided to actually watch the debate live rather than wait for the YouTube summaries. That lasted about ten minutes into the assenine bickering between McCain and Romny over trivialities. Now that I’ve had an opportunity to review some of the YouTube material, it seems that Paul got a surprising amount of real policy statements (his usual ones) out, in spite of CNN’s attempts to sideline him.

    I’m going to go way out on a limb here, but it is starting to look to me like this might develop into one of those “When two dog fight over a bone, the third one runs off with it” events. Discounting Huckabee who’s campaign is broke, what we now seem to be left with is two Democrats disguised as Republicans and one actual Republican disguised as a fringe candidate.

    Only time will tell whose disguise turns out to be the most effective.

  • It’s odd to hear any candidates discuss Iraq. The R’s seem to feel that we have to stay until we are victorious – without ever defining victory in anything but the most amorphous terms. The Dems say they’re for withdrawing the troops but they won’t say when. The closest a Dem got to saying anything substantial was when HRC said that she’d establish a commission, within ninety days of taking office, to study the question. That’s half a Friedman to establish and then an unknown number of Friedmans while they complete their study. What needs to be studied? Get the troops out now, let the Iraqis decide their own destiny.

    I’m beginning to think that McCain was taking the “under” when he said one-hundred years.

  • ***The Soviet era “Pravda” would have been more fair!***

    Ummm…no, Matt, it wouldn’t. Pravda would’ve never let him on the stage. If you were old enough to know what you were talking about, then you’d have known that. CNN is not going to fire Anderson Cooper until you, and others like you, make it prohibitively expensive to keep him on the payroll. So here’s an idea for you and your little PaulBot friends—do some in-depth research on what other groups have done to chisel away at the FOX ratings, and then apply the same tactic against CNN.

    And if you can’t stand the heat in the GOP primary kitchen, then I really don’t think you’re fit for the inferno of a general election

  • Mainstream media is ethically and morally corrupt.
    I Will not watch FOX-MSNBC-CNN news anymore..They all have lost credibility with me.
    I don’t need them, Screw ’em…

  • From the Daily Standard:

    “Perhaps the moment of the night came immediately after the debate. Within minutes of its conclusion, CNN had a “breaking news” alert across the screen touting Arnold Schwarzenegger’s endorsement of McCain tomorrow. So although I thought Romney had a strong performance tonight overall, the Schwarzenegger news will step all over it. With more big endorsements for McCain coming in the next few days, I’m told, Romney could have trouble winning a news cycle before Super Tuesday.”

    It is now McCain’s race to lose.

  • Instead of watching the debate, CB might have been better off watching the Daily Show, particularly the interview with Peggy Noonan. Surprised at Giuliani’s failure, she said, “He didn’t commit a gaffe. He didn’t have a scandal. His head didn’t blow up. Nothing terrible happened.” On John McCain, she described him metaphorically as “the best of the past; 6 1/2 years in that Hanoi Hilton.” Who needs comedy writers with guests like this?

  • The Soviet era “Pravda” would have been more fair!

    If you want ‘fair’ then investigate the many wonderful county and state fairs in your area of the country. Stay away from politics because in that arena ‘fair’ is whatever doesn’t get you prosecuted.

  • The only nutjobs are ones who disregard the Constitution of the United States of America.

  • I also was very disappointed, despite having previously watched several of these “Debates.” I should have known better, but I hoped that the number of questions and time allotted would be similar for each of the four remaining candidates since, you know, there were only four candidates. Yet again the focus was on CNN’s (evident) favorites, with Governor Huckabee and Congressman Paul either pushed aside or outright ignored.

    Senator McCain lost some of my respect last night (basically for the reasons mentioned by the author of this article). I still have too much respect for the Senator to go into further details.

    My opinion of Governor Romney hasn’t changed. He promoted himself (with researchable details so we can check his facts), but otherwise he seems to speak in positive ambiguities common to most politicians who want our vote.

    Governor Huckabee (when he was given the opportunity to speak) sounded like he was more in touch with the needs of the “average” citizen than Senator McCain and Governor Romney but he didn’t get the chance to elaborate upon his ideas/plans to improve our country.

    Congressman Paul (when he was given the opportunity to speak) addressed important issues facing our country today. Like Governor Huckabee, he was denied the time to fully explain his ideas/plans on how he could improve our country.

    It will be (as it has always been) up to us to do our research. Little could be learned from last night’s “Debate” except who CNN favored.

  • Steve, all I can say is THANK YOU for watching the squabbling morons debate so we don’t have to.

  • Ron Paul is, indeed, a libertarian nutjob.

    He’s also the only candidate from either party I can come close to taking seriously. The only one with a concrete economic plan, the only one committed to getting us out of Iraq and putting an end to our “policemen of the world” status, and the only one who can demonstrate a long history of sticking to his guns and consistently defending the Constitution with every vote he’s ever cast and every bill he’s ever introduced.

    Nutjob? Maybe. But in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

  • ** Pravda would’ve never let him on the stage. **

    Steve, I’m old enough and spent time in Moskow during the Soviet era. Pravda wouldn’t even have known he existed. He would have been languishing in the Lubyanka long before now.

  • my comments to andersen cooper:

    Mr. Cooper-
    Shame on you for a completely deplorable performance in last night’s “debate”. This was not a debate, this was the McCain/Romney show! There were 4 people at the table last night, not 2. And even now, as I write this, at 6:02 am PST on Thursday, January 31, 2008, you still have only 3 people’s pictures on your web page advertising last night’s debate! Why are you so groosly disrespectful to Dr. Paul? Please, for once, an honest answer! Why was he not allowed to speak? Why was he promised that you’d allow him to speak on the issue of conservative credentials “later”, and then you never did? Honestly, why? Do you think it’s up to you who deserves to speak? I even feel sorry for Gov. Huckabee. You let these two glory hounds bluster and blow, to your own discredit and dishonor. You, sir, are no true journalist; at the very least you’re a weak-kneed political junkie who bows in the presence of “celebrity”; at the worst, you’re a propagandist and the worst that the so called mainstream media has to offer…Shame on you. I know the fact that this comment is negative means it will get absolutely NO response or play, but come on. If you can defend yourself, do so sir. Try. Can you?

    sent it to every cnn email i could find…
    disgusting!

  • Anyone who doubts that the media control this process by denying coverage to those they deem unworthy hasn’t seen any of these debates. I mourn the departures of Edwards, Dodd, and Kuchinich, none of whom had much of an opportunity to make his case because of being muzzled.

    Last night’s treatment of Rep. Paul was a particularly egregious example. Each time Mitt the Twit and his ilk sneer and condescend to Paul, I want to slap their vacuous faces silly. (Okay, so I’m too late, they’re already silly.)

    Although I cannot support many of his positions, I admire the fact that Paul is spot-on, blunt, and honest, and it absolutely infuriates me that he’s demeaned, ignored, and marginalized by entertainers who don’t have an iota of his (or anyone else’s) brain power or integrity.

    P.S. Matt–CNN and journalistic integrity? A total oxymoron.

  • This debate reminded me of the words of the character ot “Big Man Hearst”” to the local newspaper man” during the finale of HBO series “Deadwood”:

    “Elections are for the purpose of implementing my will… or I neuter them”.

    This is the approach of CNN, FOX, MSMBC, USA-Today and other mass media. The purpose of the election coverage is no to inform, but to make sure that the will of those who own majority stock and control the media is implemented. It is very rare that their actions are as blatent and transparent as during this election season. We have a lot to thank congressman Paul for provoking them to show their true colors in such a bright light.

    It is imperative that people stop supporting any of those companies and their advertisers by learnig to use the internet as their source of information.

  • I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw the petty attacks and bickering between McCain and Romney annoying. The debate seemed like the McCain/Romney show for the most part. I also notice how arrogant and pompous McCain was for most of the debate. His lack of disrespect did not go unnoticed when Dr. Paul was talking sense. When McCain mentioned that he was part of the Regan coalition, somebody should have pointed out that he was one of the Keating 5.

  • Disappointed. I thought it was a pissing match between McCain and Romney. Anderson Cooper needs to grow some balls and cut the BS when it gets too long winded. CNN should get Jack Cafferty to moderate these things, he’d stop the BS before it starts. I truly felt that when Ron Paul answers a question, he uses his limited time most efficiently and with the most substance. Huckabee does speak well, but I dont see any substance.

  • Dennis, I don’t know where you are getting this notion that Clinton will establish a commission; as near as I can determine, she has stated that she will bring the Joint chiefs of Staff, the Secretary of Defense and the National Security Council together to draw up a plan for withdrawal, but would begin those withdrawals in the first 60 days of her administration.

    Whether it is Obama or Clinton in the Oval Office in 2009, I cannot imagine he or she will not want to make their own assessment of the situation in Iraq and in Afghanistan, as well as on the region in general. After what will have been eight years of deliberate bamboozling of the Congress and the American people by this administration, of refusing to allow members of Congress to see intelligence, of never knowing whether the intelligence they have been given is the totality or just the parts that make the administration’s case, how could they not? Who in their right mind could go into the presidency taking any part of that on faith – including what the current crop of military top brass have been saying?

    I hope what is happening behind the scenes is that both candidates are hard at work on plans, that they are studying, and gaming and putting together the pieces of a plan that will minimize the risk to our men and women, to the people of Iraq and to the larger region.

  • I just don’t get why McCain bothers to lie about Romney. He could probably blow out Romney in a debate on foreign policy before a pro-war Republican audience without having to distort Romney’s position. If the debate comes down to what Romney’s position is, I’d tend to give Romney the benefit of the doubt that he knows his own position unless we have clear evidence (as on many social issues) that he has really taken both sides of the issue. If McCain’s point is to show that Romney is inconsistent there are so many other areas he can do this other than on Iraq.

    This is especially foolish considering that he could wind up running against Clinton. Against Clinton he might have had a strong case for being the honest candidate and could bring up all the lies Clinton has told during the campaign recently. When McCain pulls the same thing, even if not as badly as Clinton has, he reduces his ability to show a distinction between Clinton and himself on character.

  • I watched the “debate”. CNN has convinced me that they are no better than Fox News, a pretty dubious accomplishment. Anderson Cooper is a wuss and now apparently a liar…he let the two “front running” candidates argue about stupid technicalities…when we will we ever get a chance to hear talk about REAL issues? I was hoping Ron Paul and Huckster would walk off, it would have been the best thing they could have done.

    The sad thing is none of the candidates seem to say how we will pay for all of their AHEM ideas…None of them understand the basic role of government and the limitations. (except Ron Paul and he is not allowed to speak…ever) Just smile and tell a dumbed down America how great you are…we will get what we desreve and it won’t be good.

    If Ron Paul’s ideas came out of Mike Huckabee’s mouth we’d have a new front runner…wait a minute, I think I hear some of Ron Paul’s ideas coming out of Huckabee’s mouth? Coincidence?

    Enough of the Arnold panning too…big deal he’s supporting McCain, bullies think alike. Vice President Ahnold?? Constitutional amendment to be the PREZ?? hMMM. McCain will “lead” us right into record deficits, world war III and senility…hooray he was a POW…Can he do other tricks? Can he sit? Speak? Roll over? Down boy! Vietnam is over…get a clue.

    Romney has not been in the “private sector” he’s been in the “trust fund” sector don’t confuse him with a regular guy…what a crock of BS about one of his biggest regrets was not serving in the military…He was in the Peace Corp during Viet Nam
    none of his 5 sons will ever serve in IRAQ or Afghanistan…don’t people get it?
    Rich kids get given trust funds and companies to play with while “normal” kids go to war…

    Romney? McCain? Either one brings back a draft. TEN-HUT!

  • plan that will minimize the risk to our men and women, to the people of Iraq and to the larger region

    I’m glad to see someone cares about the Iraqis as well. I never hear Clinton or Obama deplore the situation we led the Iraqis into.

  • #22 Anne – plan that will minimize the risk to our men and women, to the people of Iraq and to the larger region

    I’m glad to see someone cares about the Iraqis as well. I never hear Clinton or Obama deplore the situation we led the Iraqis into.

  • Who comes up with these debate questions? Personally? I’d love to see a debate where the candidates themselves ask questions of each other. And the only rules are, no personal attack questions, only questions representing the issues, and they HAVE to answer them specifically. No run around. No doubletalk. This would be much more informative in two main ways. One, you get to find out what’s important to each candidate by virtue of his question. And two, the American public gets to know how they stand on issues which are important to the other candidates. Each candidate gets to ask the same amount of questions and each candidate answers the same amount. Can’t get more fair than that!
    Last nights debate was a joke. It really wasn’t a debate at all. It was not only obviously bias, but it was pretty much worthless listening to the two so called front runners acting like school children. Very little was actually accomplished other than reinforcing the publics view of mainstream media.

  • #15 Tara: Nutjob? Maybe. But in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

    oooh, that’s good. reminds me of a wonderful sufi story:

    When the Waters Were Changed…

    Once upon a time Khidr, the Teacher of Moses, called upon mankind with a warning. At a certain date, he said, all the water in the world which had not been specially hoarded would disappear. It would then be renewed, with different water, which would drive men mad.

    Only one man listened to the meaning of this advice. He collected water and went to a secure place where he stored it, and waited for the water to change its character.

    On the appointed date the streams stopped running, the wells went dry, and the man who had listened, seeing this happening, went to his retreat and drank his preserved water.

    When he saw, from his security, the waterfalls again beginning to flow, this man descended among the other sons of men. He found that they were thinking and talking in an entirely different way from before; yet they had no memory of what had happened, or of having been warned. When he tried to talk to them, he realized that they thought that he was mad, and they showed hostility or pity, not understanding.

    At first he drank none of the new water, but went back to his concealment, to draw on his supplies, every day. Finally, however, he took the decision to drink the new water because he could not bear the loneliness of living, behaving and thinking in a different way from everyone else. He drank the new water, and became like the rest. Then he forgot all about his own store of special water, and his fellows began to look upon him as a madman who had miraculously been restored to sanity.

    From “Tales of the Dervishes”, Indries Shah, translator.

  • #24 Bob C: Anderson Cooper is a wuss and now apparently a liar…

    there’s really only one word necessary to describe ‘AC 360’ — he’s a tool.

  • #22, Anne. I believe that she said that in the last Democratic debate – I could be wrong. The closest I could find was a press release on her website mentioning the sixty day time frame for consulting with the military. I’d like to believe that Dems are working on a plan to pull out our troops with minimum harm to the Iraqis however, I doubt that we’ll see any substantial withdrawal for years – no matter who is elected.

  • Paul and Kucinich were both vanity candidates only in the race to use it as a soapbox, neither with any realistic possibility of contending for their party’s nomination, or of even influencing whoever does get nominated. By now we are past the vanity candidate stage, and we’re making the actual nomination decisions among credible candidates. CNN’s mistake wasn’t in giving Paul too little time; it was in inviting him to the debate at all.

    Romney and McCain’s discussion of the war illustrates why neither could win in November. The GOP base demands an absolute commitment to continuing indefinitely, and to refusing to admit the whole thing was a mistake. Even if Dubya’s long-term residence in the ratings cellar didn’t doom his party’s successor, this unpopular stand on a war the public long ago threw in the towel on will doom whoever comes out of this with the Republican nomination.

  • I doubt that we’ll see any substantial withdrawal for years – no matter who is elected.

    I don’t think this is so. Both Obama and HRC are savvy politicians, who know that if there are still substantial troops in Baghdad in 2012, they’ll be one-termers. I know after 7 years it’s hard to wrap your mind around the notion of having an administration that isn’t stark raving mad, but if we can get one or the other in, we’ll get at least a modicum of sanity.

  • I think the two front runners will get crushed by Obama or Hillary. These bafoons are talking heads full of empty rhetoric. Say what you will – he’s not polished, he stumbles on his speech, he looks and talks like a “mad” professor” – but Ron Paul whipped their arses last night in the few minutes he got to speak. The other two (poor Huck is being censored now like Ron) don’t even hold a candle to Paul’s intellectual greatness. Poor America – they have been dumbed down enough to not realize the fall of the country is at hand.

  • Huckabee said, “You can’t have a president who sees a whole bunch of America as invisible.” Isn’t that almost the exact same line that Hillary Clinton used in her Iowa ads? — CB

    I seriously doubt it, since Clinton is literate. “Bunch of America”, indeed!

  • JimBob said, Paul and Kucinich were both vanity candidates only in the race to use it as a soapbox, neither with any realistic possibility of contending for their party’s nomination, or of even influencing whoever does get nominated. By now we are past the vanity candidate stage, and we’re making the actual nomination decisions among credible candidates. CNN’s mistake wasn’t in giving Paul too little time; it was in inviting him to the debate at all.

    Right on,.JimBOB!

    As a graduate of the government school system, and a proud mainstream-media-informed voter, I’m really not capable of independent thought. CNN, MSNBC, Fox News…it’s SO much easier when you make the decisions for me. Please just tell me who to vote for. After all, that’s why I have cable TV!

    You don’t really need to tell me why I should vote for your “front runners”…I won’t be able to understand you anyway…just tell me who’s “viable.” Because I only want to vote for the winner. Otherwise I’m wasting my vote, and it’s so weird, you only get one when you vote for President. Not like on Dancing with the Stars where you get, like, one for each email address.

    Seriously…the less time I have to spend thinking about weird stuff like “habeus corpus” (like, who even knows what that IS!) and why gas is $3.00 a gallon, and why we have 700 bases in 120 foreign countries, the more time I have to watch American Idol.

    The U.S. dollar is worth less than the Canadian dollar? WHO CARES! If I need more money, I’ll just get another credit card. They send me pre-approved credit card applications like, every day!

    What do you mean, the “Federal Reserve” isn’t part of the Federal government? The word “Federal” is right there in the name…DUH! How stupid do you think I am! And who cares about the “money supply?” Can’t the government, like, just print more?

    Hey look…Britney Spears is gonna be on Entertainment Tonight!

  • Steve, I am old enough to know about Pravda. The Pravda reference was meant as sarcasm, which I thought would have been obvious. Regarding “Firing Anderson Cooper”, that was, I must admit, a case of extreme exasperation on my part due to the complete melt down of true “fourth estate” journalistic neutralism. And gee, thanks for the tip on “doing research”. Wow that would have never crossed my mind… oops more sarcasm, sorry. I AM actively participating in mainstream media boycotting efforts, which you can see if you google “smedleywasright”. And as far as your “heat in the kitchen” comment, I believe it’s the other candidates and corporate sponsored media who suffer from that issue, which is exactly why “they” don’t want Paul to be heard. And “little Paulbot friends”? Really? Prior to the campaign launch, almost every national poll cited America’s discontent with the war. Most people, regardless of party, supported rapid withdrawal of our troops, which the Democrat’s victory last year confirmed. So where is Paul wrong about the war? Please lay out in detail what makes anyone who supports Ron Paul deserving of “small minded’ name calling. Pre-campaign, everybody, including msm media, was complaining about loss of civil rights, the war, the credit and mortgage crisis, etc… Then, once the campaign got started, all the candidates started competing for the right to claim that “they” were the champions of “change” and that “they alone” would fix the broken government and get us out of the war. But read the fine print, its all a bunch of hollow talking point, emotionally targeted, button pushing sound byte, one-liners with zero substance. Ron Paul has been consistent for years, his record proves it. He is the ONLY one left who WILL really change things and that’s what scares the corporate media propaganda machine. So make your case on who you support and why. Specifically, what is it that you think Paul is wrong on and why? Lastly, I apologize for my excessive CAPS, in my original post, and I admit my call for Cooper’s firing was unrealistic and grandiose, but how would you have felt if that had been “your candidate”? The msm media blackout on Paul has just gone too far. Thanks for your indulgence! Matt

  • Kathleen

    Show me a credible scenario for Ron Paul getting the GOP nomination. Unless you can, the rest of your blather is meaningless. If Paul (or you) want to make speeches about any of it, and you can find someone to listen, good for you. But at this point these debates are about picking candidates to nominate. Your guy isn’t going to make it. Deal with it.

    Matt

    par·a·graph [par-uh-graf, -grahf]
    –noun
    1. a distinct portion of written or printed matter dealing with a particular idea, usually beginning with an indentation on a new line.
    2. a paragraph mark.
    3. a note, item, or brief article, as in a newspaper.

  • The economy has replaced Iraq as public issue #1. But it has to make everyone other than diehard right wingers cringe to hear Romney and McCain brag about who is more pro “Iraq war forever.” That view is antithetical to what the vast majority of Americans want.

  • jimBOB / Matt,

    sar·casm [sär-ˌka-zəm]
    –noun
    1. a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
    2. a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual
    3. the use or language of sarcasm

    You are a complete moron. Deal with it.

  • “You are a complete moron. Deal with it.”

    Very definitive.

    Credible scenario for Ron Paul getting the nomination: Right now while he hasn’t won any of the primary states, no other candidate is running away with them either. Huckabee will probably stay in the race long enough to get a few more and no candidate is likely to end up with more than 50% of the vote, which means the caucuses will be more important this year. Paul has done much better in the caucuses than the actual primaries (most likely winning at least Louisiana). At that point it’s anyone’s game.

  • Let me just say, I think the people complaining that Ron Paul is being unfairly neglected is just wrong. At least he was at the debate; at least he was quoted in this post.

    But this post starts off w/the premise that “the field is down to four candidates.”

    It isn’t — there are FIVE candidates!!

    ALAN KEYES! ALAN KEYES! ALAN KEYES!

    (yeah, yeah — nothing here is intended to be taken seriously. Just like ALAN KEYES! ALAN KEYES! ALAN KEYES!

  • After reading through all of the posts on this page thus far, I am far from surprised at the pattern that has emerged from the campaign thus far. The first pattern I see emerging is the amazing support that Dr. Paul has on the internet and that everyone seems to disregard this as fluffy nonsense that doesnt reflect Americans.
    Two, I also find it interesting that whenever anyone points out the fact that our media sources only focus on certain canidates and excludes others, (usually based on how much income is raised for their campaigns and useless polls that are reflective only on landbased phonelines and persons over the age of 40), it raises the ire of those who support the mainstream canidates and inspires name calling and cries of conspiracy theory.
    Our election process has become, as pointed out earlier, decided by the media, because the majority of voters do only get their info from the television and make only generalized descions based on generalized info presented to them in sound bytes and biased commentary. While I am pleased that most states have been having record numbers turn out for the primaries, I am still sad that we as Americans have not yet learned to think for ourselves and turn off the tv.
    Mayhaps I am just being a naysayer and the primaries are truly reflecting the will of the American people, but I just dont feel that way. Even if Dr. Paul or one of the other disregarded candidates dont have a realistic chance in gaining the nomination, at least they are proving that with each election, we as a country are gaining momentum on regaining control over our govt. and not letting the pre chosen candidates, cast from the same old mold, be our only choices.
    I firmly believe in Dr. Pauls message, but also firmly believe that even if he won every state primary, the GOP would find a way to not let him be nominated. If McCain or Romney is nominated as the GOP candidate, then the election has been handed to the Democrats. I for one will not vote for either of the two, based almost soley on their thought process of the war.

  • Typical; MSM has promoted the two Democrats with the highest negative Q ratings (Obama and Clinton), marginalized the most progressive (Edwards) and ignored the most untraditional and most honest (Kuchinich).

    For the Republicans, its chosen the opposite strategy after it became obvious that you can’t fool all the people all the time and stopped promoting (Guilianni). It’s demoted the candidates with highest negative Q (Romney and Huckabee) but likewise ignored the nmontraditional and most honest (Paul).

    Voila, Saint John and a manufactured chance for the status quo. Hopefully, you still won’t be able to fool all the people all the time.

  • @25/26

    Bwuh? So apparently being against the war from the get go (Obama) or soon after (Clinton) means they don’t care about the Iraqis? One would think that maybe, just maybe, that might have been wrapped into being against it? I think so.

  • no other candidate is running away with them either.

    (speaking very slowly) Many of the Super Tuesday states are winner-take-all on the GOP side. Unless Ron Paul can actually WIN in these states he will be awarded a grand total of zero delegates from them. Since he is not even close to coming in second in any state, his chances of winning the GOP nomination this year are much the same as mine, i.e. zero.

    BTW, the same winner-take-all dynamic means that once McCain gets on a roll, he’ll be unstoppable. Mitt either pulls out an improbable set of upsets or on Feb. 6 we’ll have an undisputed GOP nominee whose name is not Ron Paul.

  • bananarama said: “Ron Paul is a phony libertarian nutjob.”

    No, Ron Paul is a real libertarian nutjob.

    Tara said: “Ron Paul is … the only one with a concrete economic plan”

    Sadly, no. Ron Paul’s economic plan is more like sandstone, easy to shape from his extremist capitalist philisophy, but not strong enough to support the American economy.

    Not that I don’t like some of what Paul says respecting the war in Iraq or the war on drugs.

    And I have to say Romney almost sounded sensible when he talked about entitlements.

    And Huckabee sounded sensible when he talked about infrastructure spending rather than rebates as a way to stimulate the economy.

    Take the best parts of them and you almost have a decent candidate.

    McCain on the other hand said nothing worthwhile, and plastered that fake John Cage smile on his face every time someone challenged his Holy Writ of an opinion.

    Gah, the man makes me sick. You can feel the waves of disrespect eminating off him, not just towards the other three but towards Americans in general. He even took a shot at use when referencing Reagan.

  • McCain is such a smug, deceptive little shit. I can see him lying to the American Public poorly but ‘daring’ anyone to question him on it, just like he did last night at the debates A perfect example of the authoritarian personality. Just keeps on talking the lie in spite of objections or reporters trying to interrupt to call him on it. The man would not compromise on anything even if proven wrong. He’s past being president of anything.

  • John Lowbeck, you are a man among men.

    JimBOOB said, Show me a credible scenario for Ron Paul getting the GOP nomination.

    Mmmmmkay….

    [Cue audio from July, 2008]

    The stock market lost another 3.2 percent of its value today, the fourth straight day of losses spurred by second-quarter economic reports released on Monday. The U.S. economy has officially entered a recession, defined as two consecutive quarters of negative financial growth. Financial analysts fear that the market could dip below 9,000 next week before bottoming out.

    And there’s more bad economic news…the U.S. Dollar has continued its slide, opening still lower today against the Euro and the Yen. Currency markets are nervous as overseas investors begin to dump Dollars in favor of more stable currencies such as the British Pound and the Canadian Dollar (which is now worth $1.46 in U.S. currency.)

    U.S. exports have again declined, in spite of the weak dollar, as overseas markets contract as part of the now-global economic downturn. Meanwhile, debate continued in Congress about another stimulus package, this one aimed at extending jobless benefits as unemployment has reached a ten-year high. This will be the third economic stimulus package passed since February. The first two have had no measurable positive impact on the economy, but increased deficit spending by 7.3 percent.

    Democrats in Congress have proposed a massive rollback of the Bush tax cuts, with the aim of restoring a top marginal rate of 78% for households earning more than $250,000 per year. “It’s time the rich started to feel the pain of the working class,” said presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton. “The wealthy have had a free ride for too long.” Luxury goods manufacturers such as yacht builders and custom home builders, and travel and tourism operators, predicted massive layoffs as upper-income consumers would be left with dramatically reduced disposable income. Clinton also proposed raising the tax rate on capital gains to 50% to make up for the budget shortfall created by this third economic stimulus proposal, estimated to cost $280 billion.

    And in a flashback to the 1970s, gas lines have once again appeared in major metropolitan areas. Price controls, instituted by the Democrat-controlled Congress, and passed over Mr. Bush’s veto, capped gasoline at $3.75 per gallon. U.S. refineries have slowed production as wholesale costs have neared the price cap, leading to shortages at the pump.

    Presumptive Republican nominee John McCain discussed his plans to turn around the U.S. economy at a hastily-called news conference. Mr. McCain said, “…crickets…working group…uhm…echo….interest rates…straight talk…err…Jack Kemp….”

  • (Sorry to keep engaging the Paulites, everyone, it’s just too much fun.)

    So Kathleen, you are saying that in the event of a spectacular economic meltdown this summer, all the already-committed McCain delegates will, en mass suddenly decide to switch to support one of the least-popular primary candidates whose economic and foreign policy positions are at complete variance from the party rank and file? This is your credible scenario?

  • Where do the Ron Paul supporters get the idea that Hillary Clinton will start taxing the Rich at 78%

    Any proof of that? Is that on her website, as one of her agenda items?

    Or is this just more of the same: Republicans making it up as they go. The more they see that winning becomes impossible, the more desperate their claims become.

  • Bruno said, Where do the Ron Paul supporters get the idea that Hillary Clinton will start taxing the Rich at 78%

    Any proof of that? Is that on her website, as one of her agenda items?

    Or is this just more of the same: Republicans making it up as they go. The more they see that winning becomes impossible, the more desperate their claims become.

    Bruno, honey, where do I begin….

    Sigh.

    I am not “the Ron Paul supporters.” I am A Ron Paul supporter. I’m an individual. I speak for myself alone. (It just so happens that a lot of folks agree with me. Or I agree with a lot of folks. Depends on how you look at it.)

    I understand that socialists/collectivists/Democrats have difficulty grasping this “individualism” concept. So I’ll wait for a moment to give any socialists/collectivists/Democrats in the room a chance to catch up.

    Are ya with me?

    Bruno, if you scroll up the list of comments a bit, you’ll see that my creative writing exercise was in response to this comment from JimBOB:

    “Show me a credible scenario for Ron Paul getting the GOP nomination.”

    I showed him one. He just didn’t like it. (And by the way, top marginal tax rates were about 78% when Ronald Reagan was elected. That absurd rate is not without precedent. And Charlie Rangle is dying to raise taxes on the “evil rich.” And if you don’t think Hillary would go along with that, you’ve got kumquats for brains.)

    And now THIS comment (the one I’m typing right now) is in response to this comment from JimBOB:

    “So Kathleen, you are saying that in the event of a spectacular economic meltdown this summer, all the already-committed McCain delegates will, en mass suddenly decide to switch to support one of the least-popular primary candidates whose economic and foreign policy positions are at complete variance from the party rank and file? This is your credible scenario?

    There’s just so much here to work with.

    It is John McCain (a tax-and-spend, illegal-alien-loving, First-Amendment-destroying big government warmonger) who is at complete variance from the party rank and file.

    The GOP rank and file have a hell of a lot more in common with Ron Paul than with John McCain Feingold Kennedy. They just don’t know it yet, thanks to a nearly traitorous blackout of TV coverage of Ron Paul and his platform.

    “Republicans” like John McCain are to blame for the smackdown that grassroots Republicans administered during the last election (the one where Republicans lost control of the Congress.)

    John McCain has been endorsed by The New York Times (I’ve heard they’re somewhat liberal), Rudy Guiliani (a liberal who’s a Republican in name only) and Arnold Schwartzenegger, a “Republican” who wants to nationalize the health care industry (if I remember correctly, that’s about 8 percent of the U.S. economy.)

    And yes, I’m saying that if the economy spirals into a deep recession—or a depression—this summer or fall, and it becomes apparent that all of Ron Paul’s dire predictions about the collapse of our currency were all true, and people start to realize that putting John McCain in charge of this country’s economy will be like throwing a boat anchor to a drowning man, it’s conceivable that some of his delegates will put loyalty to their country ahead of loyalty to a corrupt, lying career politician.

    JimBOB, if you’re not going to vote for Ron Paul anyway, WHY DO YOU CARE?

    Whew, I feel better.

    Okay kids, I’m going back to work now.

    JimBOB, Bruno, it’s been fun.

    Talk amongst yourselves.

    Kathleen

    p.s. I’m not a “Paulite.” I’m a Constitutionalist. And an American.

  • The GOP rank and file have a hell of a lot more in common with Ron Paul than with John McCain Feingold Kennedy. They just don’t know it yet, thanks to a nearly traitorous blackout of TV coverage of Ron Paul and his platform.

    You owe me a new keyboard.

    Sorry to break the sad news, but the Republican base loves them some Iraq war. They really do. And they also love big authoritarian government, just so long as it has wingnuts in charge and runs on borrowed money so they can continue pretending that the Tax Fairy (“Tax cuts pay for themselves!”) will provide for everything. I’ll grant you that McCain hasn’t historically been enough of a xenophobe for the wingnut taste, but he’s been working very hard on that. I think they’ll let it slide.

    In any case, there are plenty of words to describe a nomination strategy based on the notion that your opponents’ pledged delegates will spontaneously vote for your candidate, but “credible” isn’t one of them.

    JimBOB, if you’re not going to vote for Ron Paul anyway, WHY DO YOU CARE?

    Because our nice lefty blog got invaded by a slew of libertarian types who throw a gasket (and call us names) whenever we mention the fact that Ron Paul is a fringe candidate with zero chance of getting the GOP nomination.

  • Kathleen

    p.s. I’m not a “Paulite.” I’m a Constitutionalist

    One of those… No different from a bible thumper then. (As in taking an ancient document and believing it’s the absolute truth for todays world) The Constitution was written a few centuries ago. It’s time to update it, or at least not misconstrue things, the way a lot of Republicans seem to enjoy doing.

    “Democrats in Congress have proposed a massive rollback of the Bush tax cuts, with the aim of restoring a top marginal rate of 78% for households earning more than $250,000 per year.” Those were your words Kathleen. That’s where I got the 78%. Instead of saying that I have “kumquats for brains”, you could have offered some proof where Democrats (Hillary in particular & Rangle) say they want to raise the taxes to 78%

    As I understand it; Hillary has made clear she wants to return the taxes to where they were BEFORE Bush lowered the taxes for the Rich. At no point has she insinuated to want to raise them to 78%.

    I agree with several of Ron Paul’s agenda points; unfortunately there quite a few of them that are clearly off base as well. Hence his low ratings in the actual elections.

    For your information, Kathleen, I was born and raised in a socialist country. I’ll venture to say that I know a LOT more about socialism than you do. I came to America the legal way, got my green card, and eventually became a Naturalized US Citizen.

    It was my CHOICE to be an American, and I’m proud to be an American. You were born an American, and I sincerely doubt you even appreciate what that means. If it wasn’t for freedom of speech, you wouldn’t be talking at all. You claim to be a ‘constitutionalist’, yet your proposals are not based in reality and smell more of conspiracy theories. Your view of the world, has nothing to do with American values.

    Governing a country is not just about ‘individual’ rights, it’s about what is good for the entire country. Your view is more closely related to anarchism.

    Come to think of it.. Why am I responding? It’s not as if Ron Paul is going anywhere, nor are any of his followers. I have to give it to you: idealism you certainly have. Cute, but not very practical.

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