‘I worry more about abortion and gay marriage and all that crazy stuff’

So, is this finally the election cycle in which socially-conservative voters move away from the culture war and start voting on their economic self-interest? It depends a bit on whom you ask.

The Washington Post, in an interesting front-page piece today, says the notion of basing votes on far-right “values” is in decline, especially in places like Ohio.

Two years ago, Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell was a driving force in the triumphant campaign for a state constitutional amendment to outlaw same-sex marriage. That helped cause a surge in turnout of “values voters,” who helped deliver this pivotal state to President Bush’s successful reelection effort.

As the Republican candidate for governor, Blackwell has been counting on values voters to do for him this year what they did for the party in 2004. But the culture wars are being eclipsed as a voting issue by economic worries and Republican scandals that have altered the political dynamic here in striking ways. Several polls find Blackwell trailing his Democratic opponent, five-term Rep. Ted Strickland, by double digits with less than four weeks to go until the Nov. 7 midterm elections.

The difficulty Blackwell is experiencing winning support for his socially conservative message reflects the anxiety evident this year among voters in Ohio and elsewhere, some pollsters say.

“It is harder to run on wedge issues when voters have huge concerns on their minds regarding war in Iraq, economic issues and a Congress they perceive as doing little,” said Michael Bocian, a vice president at Greenberg Quinlan Rosner, a Democratic polling firm in Washington.

Great, right? This is exactly what Dems have been hoping for years. Indeed, a recent survey by the University of Cincinnati’s Ohio Poll, which found that 63% of likely Ohio voters are basing their choice of candidates on the “issues” rather than “character.” (I’d argue that Dems have always held the high ground on “character,” too, but I think I know what the poll meant.)

On the other hand, however, there’s Missouri.

The LA Times’ Ron Brownstein spent some time in Missouri recently, following the Talent/McCaskill Senate race, and found that the wedge issues matter as much as ever.

[I]n her 2004 gubernatorial race, McCaskill won only eight of the state’s 109 rural and exurban counties, noted Kenneth Warren, a St. Louis University political scientist. To win this year, he said, McCaskill’s main challenge “is to get more of the rural vote.”

Both the opportunities and barriers in that effort were on display as McCaskill and Talent crossed campaign paths recently in rural southeastern counties, a region known as the Bootheel.

McCaskill’s biggest obstacle, by far, is her liberal views on social issues: She supports abortion rights and opposed state amendments banning gay marriage and allowing residents to carry concealed weapons. Talent’s campaign has run ads in rural markets highlighting these positions.

“It’s a question of who believes in these heartland values and who doesn’t, and that is a set of issues in the race,” Talent said.

At the end of September, when McCaskill appeared at the 62nd annual Cotton Carnival Parade in Sikeston, several along the route said they did not need to know her opinions beyond abortion and gay rights to conclude they could not vote for her.

Brownstein spoke to Jim Holt, a foreman at a trailer manufacturing company, who said, “I mostly vote Republican because of the Christian values side of it.” Holt said economic issues — what he called “the money side of it” — took a backseat to his other concerns. “I worry more about abortion and gay marriage and all that crazy stuff.”

Similarly, Joe Hester, an accountant, said he would vote for Talent because the incumbent “supports family values and I think McCaskill is too liberal for our state…. I’m a strong Christian, and I believe if you take care of the values, God will take care of the rest.”

So, which is it? Will socially-conservative voters allow the “wedge” to work once again or not? I’m inclined to believe the Ohio article, not just because I hope it’s true, but also because I suspect a whole lot of these folks have come to realize that voting Republican not only hurts them on wages, health care, and education, but also because the GOP won’t actually deliver a Christian-right agenda anyway.

Fool Christian conservatives once, shame on the GOP. Fool the same Christian conservatives for a couple of decades….

“I’m a strong Christian, and I believe if you take care of the values, God will take care of the rest.” – Joe Hester

I’d like him to show evidence of anytime in history when that has been true.

You’d think the Chosen People’s captivities in Egypt and Babylon would dissaude people of that notion.

But in the end, I think this proves the premise that if someone knows their economic interest, they are not poor because they act on it.

  • Just more proof that Christendom is full of hypocrits and ignorants. Not that other religions aren’t, but then again those other religions aren’t pursuing a course of trying to rule everyone.

  • Since when is carrying a concealed weapon a “heartland value”. What’s next, the right to commit felony assault with impugnity?

    “Heartland values”. *snort*

  • I bleieve the news out of Ohio is encouraging, but I also believe the Missouri news is indicitave of the huge numbers of Americans who still vote on Gays, Guns and God.

  • “I worry more about abortion and gay marriage and all that crazy stuff.”

    Ah for the simple life. Here’s me worried about war and the economy and the rocketing cost of health care and child abuse and all that “crazy stuff,” when I see my concerns should be: What happens to a blob of cells and the genetalia of people who fall in love. Thanks dude.

    Similarly, Joe [Scarlet Letter] Hester, … “supports family values and I think McCaskill is too liberal for our state…. I’m a strong Christian, and I believe if you take care of the values, God will take care of the rest.”

    News flash Buppie, you’re a fricking feeble minded poseur. Where does Jesus Christ say “Maintain the values and I’ll carry your sagging arse on my back?” In fact, if you’d stop hitting your head with the Bible and read it you’ll see Jesus hung out with whores, tax collectors and lepers, trashed a house of religion, broke the sabbath, regularly told people to mind their own damn business in re: sin and generally pissed off narrow minded shits such as yourself with his flagrant disregard for “values.”

    I’m starting to think the whole point of The Rapture will be to Hoover all the cretins off the planet. Any one who believes Revelation – Schlurp! Yea, they shall be sucked into God’s vaccuum bag and deposited on the rubbish heap with the other crap no one wants.

  • Fool the same Christian conservatives for a couple of decades….

    How about for a couple of thousand years? God, I wish we were governed by people as revolutionary and rational as our Founding Fathers.

  • You can believe the Ohio article but I would not apply it to Missouri voters. I have been in southern Missouri enough to judge that Brownstein got it right — that abortion, gay marriage and church/state issues rank highly among these rural voters. And Bush still rates right up there with Jesus.

  • I’m inclined to believe the Ohio article …

    Then you haven’t spent any time with the Clampetts down in the southern part of Missouri … or in the central part … or the northwestern and northeastern parts … or pretty much anywhere outside of KC and St. Loser.

    I can promise you that the folks mentioned in that second article — the ones that are willing to control the personal lives of people they’ll never meet while ignoring the harsh fiscal and social realities of the GOP plan — are all over the place around here. Hell, I work with a few of them.

    And the scary part is that they’re not as dumb as we’d like to think.

    The problem is that they simply vote for those whom they believe are good Christians. Unfortunately, the right (with the media’s help, natch) have convinced them that GOP = God’s Party while the Dems = Aetheists. Whether or not a person actually follows Christian values is irrelevant; it’s the label that matters.

    As much as I’d love to think that something will wake them up, I just don’t see it happening since far too many don’t realize that they’re being used as pawns. They just eat up the wedge issues like a block of moldy cheese, all the while claiming that it tastes wonderful and would go well with a nice Natural Light.

    It really does make me ashamed of living in this state …

  • Wow, Ohioans are merely goofy, while people in the Show Me state are showing the rest of us that they’re bloody retards.

    When in the world did it become de riguer for rural people to be stupid?

  • … while people in the Show Me state are showing the rest of us that they’re bloody retards.

    Hey now! You know, not everyone in Mo. is clinically stupid …

    🙂

  • It’s sometimes hard for folks living outside of the bible belt to fully understand the extreme religiosity of the rural folk.

    If you want an eye-opening taste of just how insane it is, watch the excellent documentary Paradise Lost about the murder of 3 8-year-olds in West Memphis, Arkansas. Apart from the loony and savage families of the victims, the prosecutors of three boys charged in the killings even used “Satanism” as a motivation–knowing full well that even though their evidence was weak that they could still secure a conviction just via religious zeal on the part of the jurors. Who wouldn’t want to convict a non-Christian? And they knew their jurors!

    There truly is no hope for those people–they are easily manipulated and credulous. No wonder our government is filled with hucksters.

  • Unholy Moses, unfortunately MO doesn’t have a monopoly on socio/religious conservatism. Downstate IL is about as bad and rural Arkansas could give it a good run. No amount of reality is going to shake that branch that these folks cling to get them to a better life after this life. If the GOP threatens those beliefs less than the dems, the GOP is going to remain their party even if they ain’t got a pot to piss in.

  • You can believe the Ohio article but I would not apply it to Missouri voters. I have been in southern Missouri enough to judge that Brownstein got it right — that abortion, gay marriage and church/state issues rank highly among these rural voters. And Bush still rates right up there with Jesus.

    You don’t know the half of it. The Missouri Bootheel is so mired in bone-grinding deep poverty and ass-backwards ignorance it’s like another world. I lived and worked there for more than two years straight out of college — just long enough to have every stereotype of Southern white trash confirmed.

    But they love Republicans, Rush Limbaugh, guns, and Jesus in about that order. I’m surprised Claire is even bothering campaigning there.

    The thing that will swing the Missouri Senate race one way or another is the stem cell research amendment on the ballot. If the Missouri “values voter” turns out, the election will swing to Talent. If enough intelligent voters in Kansas City, St. Louis and the rest of the state turn out, McCaskill stands a good chance of winning. So far she’s at least made the Senate race competitive and she has the backing of most Missouri Democrats. That’s a big step since the last Senate race.

  • Which brings up something about the George Felix Allen race this year that doesn’t get mentioned a whole lot – but VA has a 2004-style gay marriage amendment on the ballot this year – which may bring out enough of the “values voters” to get Allen re-elected

  • If the “Christian voter” would take 5 minutes to reflect on the policies they were promised over the last 6 years with the policies that have been enacted, they might come to realize that they have been duped and will continue to be duped every election cycle.

    Republicans control everything, every branch, everything – and yet, abortion is still legal. Repubs will NEVER make it illegal because they need the issue to run on every 2 years. So while women’s rights are safe (hooray!), we’re at a disadvantage every election season because the sheep of the midwest think Rethugs will legislate their religious beliefs as they are continually promised.

    I’m speechless as I ponder the fact that Dobson, Perkins, et al. haven’t figured this out yet. You good values voters/politicians control everything, right? Then why isn’t abortion illegal? Your boys could ram it home first thing Monday morning if they wanted to, but they won’t and they never will because it might affect their power. Wow, Mr. Christian, in your words wouldn’t you say that the guy you voted for is killing babies to stay in power? Suckers.

    I respect the heck out of Dems for not carrot and sticking people with their own belief system.

  • Hmmmmn. It would be good if moderate churches would step up even more to define Christian values. While I wouldn’t want to see it as a strong element in a national campaign, it just seems so dumb that Repubs get away with convincing people that they’re the ones with “Christian values,” apparently making it immoral to vote for a Democrat, whatever the circumstance. In districts like that, this has to be challenged.

  • I grew up in rural southern Iowa–just north of the Missouri state line. I have to say that the comments from Bootheel voters sound pretty familiar. On the other hand, try to understand that there are not many sophisticating influences in deep rural America.

    Some little towns, like the one I grew up in, still don’t have cable TV. Poverty is so entrenched that the people can’t afford it or satellite anyway. The local newspaper is pretty thin and usually published once or twice a week. There are no large companies in these areas to provide exposure to people from outside the local area through management interaction or business travel. Anyone who goes to college ends up moving away permanently because there are no jobs for a college graduate.

    What does that leave rural people with? Their church. Most churches support missionaries who send reports back from various parts of the world. Ministers are usually educated out-of-state and have evangelized different parts of the country as part of their education. These people give rural folks exposure to the larger world, and the rural people grab onto it and practically anything else their told.

    Rural people are not necessarily ignorant or stupid (ok, some are). It is a fact, though, that they do not have the same access to information or the experiences that can expand a person’s world view that urban people have.

    I’m a devout Christian and a Democrat. I have been fortunate to get an education and travel the globe whereas many people I grew up with had neither. I guarantee that Democrats will NOT make in-roads into rural America as long as they refer to rural citizens as cretins, ignoramuses, and/or religious fanatics.

    The tone of the comments on this article is as narrow-minded as the people they are criticizing. It’s shameful. Try to show a little more understanding for others’ circumstances.

    Out West

  • Perhaps the best solution in the coming decades will be for people of progressive values globally to congregate in nations, states, regions, localities where their numbers and resources will assure that at least some of the world will not be run by the greed of global corporatism or the bigotry of religious fanatics. Or would it be better for progressives to live in as many places as possible and try to be an influence for change?

  • What I find particularly bizarre about the idea of “values voters” is that their primary concerns are about a handful of issues that focus on the behavior of other people, people who (allegedly) have nothing to do with them. It is only in an abstract way does a woman having an abortion or a gay couple getting married interfere with their lives. Their priorities about what is important, what DOES impact their lives is quixotically out of whack.

    The fact is that abortions happen and gay people live as married couples and it doesn’t impact their lives in the slightest, except that they *know* these things go on and their is a remote possibility that somewhere, somehow they will be faced with a gay couple or someone who is “trouble” who wants or has had an abortion. I don’t get it.

    For some reason they’re able to allow abstract, relatively minor issues totally trump the obviously more important problems– war, economy, poverty, education. But maybe that’s way they gravitate towards them, they don’t want to think that much, which is why some of us call them “sheeple.”

  • Almost anyone with a brain in rural Missouri has gotten out of there over the past 60 years or so, which is bound to have an effect on the gene pool that’s left behind, which is reflected in the statements of these morons. .

  • Which brings up something about the George Felix Allen race this year that doesn’t get mentioned a whole lot – but VA has a 2004-style gay marriage amendment on the ballot this year – which may bring out enough of the “values voters” to get Allen re-elected — DeepDarkDiamond (#14)

    Yeah, I’ve been wondering about this one. There are two other amendments on the ballot, and I have yet to find out what they are. And the marriage amendment one is a bit peculiar, too. For one thing, it’s wrapped up in such “legalese”, that it’s hard to determine just what you’re voting for (or against). Then, when you spend some time digesting it, you realise that it’s not really aimed at *just* the gays; it pulls the rug from under *all* unmarried couples, even if they conform to the one man/one woman standard. No partner health insurance, no survivor benefits, no child protection, no nothing.

    Yet… There are a lot of unmarried (straight) couples in our area (rural south-western VA) and most of them sport the little fish on the back of their car or a vanity license plate which says “God bless” or something like that — that is, they’re intensely religious. They don’t get married (particularly the women), because they’ve already had 2-3 divorces and don’t want another. So they live with their “boyfriends”, sometimes for years. If the amendment passes, they’ll be left “bare ass to the ice” (to use a Polish phrase).

    I wish Webb’s campaign would make more effort to get *that* message out, loud and clear, and not just to the “choir” of “converts”, but to everyone. Those folks are against gay marriage, on religious grounds, but they’re unlikely to be against straights living together (and having the same benefits as any married couple), since it’s a lesser sin.

  • World estimations of the number of terminations carried out each year is somewhere between 20 and 88 million.

    3,500 per day / 1.3 million per year in America alone.

    50% of that 1.3 million claimed failed birth control was to blame.

    A further 48% had failed to use any birth control at all.

    And 2% had medical reasons.

    That means a stagering 98% may have been avoided had an effective birth control been used.

  • dobson and perkins know the gop won’t deliver on abortion. they don’t care. they are just a couple of elmer gantrys. they want the money and the power. i doubt they believe their own bullshit, but it doesn’t matter, the fundies who give them their money believe their bullshit.

  • Something for Pro-choicers and Pro-lifers to concider…..

    I am a 98% pro-lifer, 2% Pro-choicer, who has no religious convictions at all . I didn’t need the fear of god or anything else to come to my decision, just a good sense of what is right and wrong.
    You see we were all once a fetus. Is it beyond the realm of possibilities that when your mother first learned she was carrying you, she may have considered her options? What if she had decided to terminate? Would that have been OK?
    You would not exist, if you have children they would not exist, and your (husband or wife) would be married to someone else. You would have been deprived of all your experiences and memories. In this day and age with terminations being so readily available and so many being carried out, if you make it to full term
    you can consider yourself lucky. Lucky you had a mother that made the choice of life for you. Don’t you think they all deserve the same basic human right, LIFE?
    I’m all for contraception, prevention is certainly better than termination.
    Did you know you can get an implant that is safe, 99.9% effective, and lasts for three years? Just think girls not even a show for three years, wouldn’t that be great? I think too many people rely too heavily on the last option (abortion), I think if abortions weren’t so readily available people would manage their reproductive system far better resulting in a fraction of the number of unwanted pregnancies.
    World wide there are over 50 MILLION aborted pregnancies each year. In America 3,500 terminations carried out every day, that’s over 1.3 million every year, 50% of all cases claimed that birth control had been used, 48% admitted they took no precaution, and 2% had a medical reason. That’s a staggering 98% that may have been prevented had an effective birth control been used. Don’t get me wrong, I suspect the percentages in Australia would be much the same.
    Just a lot of unnecessary killing.

    At the point of conception is when life began for you. This was the start of your existence. Your own personal big bang. Three weeks after conception heart started to beat. First brain waves recorded at six weeks after conception. Seen sucking thumb at seven weeks after conception.

    I am convinced that in the not too distant future, people will look back at many of the practices of today with disbelief and horror.

    Want to know how to find humanity-?

    True humanity can only be achieved, by concidering others/ caring about others, as much as, if not more than yourself.

  • Bill Clinton once said that abortions should be available , safe and RARE. He is a very wise man.

    I’d like to see an ultrasound in every clinnic to provide a more informed choice,
    before going through with something they may regret.

    I’d also like to see effective birth control made available to all who can’t afford it.

  • We can’t beat the Conservative Christian lock on rural areas like in Missouri from the outside, it has to be changed from inside the Churches themselves.

    just sayin.

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