If we’re going to hold candidates accountable for their supporters’ comments…

There’s been considerable discussion this week about whether Barack Obama has, to the media’s satisfaction, rejected/denounced the beliefs of some controversial figures who’ve endorsed his campaign. Most of the talk is a rather classic example of guilt by association, but it seems to be big news anyway.

The Farrakhan squabble seems especially unhelpful, given that Obama doesn’t seem to want the guy to have anything to do with his campaign, but if this is the way the game is going to be played, perhaps John McCain can be pressed for his take on John Hagee’s colorful worldview.

Senator John McCain got support on Wednesday from an important corner of evangelical Texas when the pastor of a San Antonio mega-church, Rev. John C. Hagee, endorsed Mr. McCain for president. Mr. Hagee, who argues that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive, biblically prophesized military strike against Iran that will lead to the second coming of Christ, praised Mr. McCain for his pro-Israel views.

“John McCain has publicly stated his support of the state of Israel, pledging that his administration will not permit Iran to have nuclear weapons to fulfill the evil dreams of President Ahmadinejad to wipe Israel off the map,” Mr. Hagee said at a news conference at the Omni
Hotel in San Antonio.

Mr. Hagee also praised Mr. McCain for his “solid, pro-life voting record for the past 24 years.”

Mr. McCain, who has been on a steady search for support among conservative and evangelical leaders who have long distrusted him, said he was “very honored” by Mr. Hagee’s endorsement.

Given that McCain can desperately use a hand with conservative Christian evangelicals, that’s not surprising, but given the political climate, it’s hardly unreasonable to ask McCain to talk about his thoughts on Hagee’s ideas. After all, if Tim Russert can quiz Obama on Farrakhan’s lunacy, or nutty comments from Harry Belafonte, McCain can at least expound a bit on his new friend’s end-times prophecies.

I suspect the typical American hasn’t heard of John Hagee, but in evangelical circles, he’s a very big deal, and the pastor of one of the nation’s more powerful mega-churches. He’s also a leading, if not the leading player in the “Christian-Zionist” movement, a political philosophy “rooted in biblical prophecies and a belief that Israel’s struggles signal a prelude to Armageddon.”

It’s a philosophy ripe for analysis. Hagee, for example, believes the anti-Christ will be the head of the European Union. Does McCain find that reasonable?

Hagee has also been particularly prolific on the subject of the end-times.

When addressing Jewish audiences, Mr. Hagee generally avoids talking about Armageddon. But his books, whose titles include “Beginning of the End” and “From Daniel to Doomsday,” are filled with death and mayhem. “The battlefield will cover the nation of Israel!” he writes in “Jerusalem Countdown,” his recent work, describing a “sea of human blood drained from the veins of those who have followed Satan.”

Last year, at a major gathering of televangelists, Hagee also explained his belief that “democracy in America is being hijacked by activist federal judges,” and that school violence is the result of court rulings that prohibit state-sponsored Ten Commandments displays. Is McCain on board with all of this?

What’s more, Glenn Greenwald found some helpful examples of Hagee denouncing Muslims (“[T]hose who live by the Koran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews”); blaming Hurricane Katrina on Americans’ sins (“I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God, and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that”); and urging U.S. foreign policy to help hasten the Rapture.

The GOP has long been given a pass on courting the most warped and twisted religious figures around. George Bush spoke regularly with Pat Robertson — never once forced to “denounce” or “reject” him. In 2006, Rev. Hagee had a private meeting with uber-White House neocon (and convicted criminal) Elliot Abrams, who just happens to run Middle East policy in the Bush administration, and afterwards, Hagee gushed that he and Abrams (like he and Lieberman) shared similar views towards the Middle East: “we felt we were on the right track.”

Watching the media’s treatment of Farrakhan and Hagee, is it possible to imagine a more transparent, and grotesque, double standard?

Nope, not really. The difference seems to be that Hagee (like Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, and others) is a wealthy, white Christian, for whom a certain tolerance is expected.

Notice the different responses to the leading candidates denoucing comments

1. John McCain – denounces comments of a RW nutjob that his campaign acitively solicited – McCain is hailed as “being above the fray”

2. Obama – forcefully denounces unsolicited comments from a Muslim “leader” during the highest rated debate of 2008 On National TV and news organizations are tripping over themselves to “report” questions about Obama’s ties to Farrahkan and anti-semitism.

Double standard……yes
liberal Media …..ahhhh NO!!!!

  • I am sick unto death of the metaphysical flatulence that lambastes me daily, the bullshit of Hagee, Robertson, Freddy Phelps and the like! Some sort of their “creation”, a god that hates us for our so-called immorality, for just being people and following our “god” given human natures, is constantly “punishing” us with Katrinas, forest fires, wars, etc.

    Never is it that we just screwed up. I am tired of being a pawn in some ridiculous heavenly game, a game whose rules I understand not and care for even less. I do wish these folks would take their god and stuff it! This is our world, not some ghostly presence’s! This quackery should end and we should learn to accept that we are the responsible factors and we needn’t try to hide behind the chimera of some product of religio-nuttery that these bums continue to promote.

  • Bah. Just more of those “mean old Republican primary voters” forcing St. John of the Straight Talk to say and do things he doesn’t believe in.

    I’m sure that Joe Klein will be along any minute now to tell us what McCain actually thinks about all of this. Or at least what the fictional John McCain that lives in his head thinks about all of this.

  • As I said over at Swampland this morning… Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World; From Daniel to Doomsday: The Countdown Has Begun; The Beginning of the End… this guy is a less sane version of Eugene Levy’s character in “A Mighty Wind.”

    I have to say that I think that the media will press this issue. When there’s been so much discussion about how Russert handled things the other day, I just don’t see how they can duck this one. We will see.

  • I’ve seen Hagee. he’s an angry, angry man.

    But he does have good charts.

    We need more pastors like pastor XXXXX (name withheld), a former porn star who speaks 12 languages 🙂

  • “Mr. Hagee also praised Mr. McCain for his “solid, pro-life voting record for the past 24 years.””

    “Mr. Hagee, who argues that the United States must join Israel in a preemptive, biblically prophesized military strike against Iran that will lead to the second coming of Christ”

    Prolife for white xtian types and pro “choice” for brown people who are really no threat except to themselves.

  • As I said on the earlier post by the IRS and Obama’s demonination,
    REVOKE THE TAX EXEMPT STATUS OF ALL CHURCHS!

  • Apocalypse believers scare the crap out of me. Pretty much anyone who thinks it will be a wonderful thing when the vast majority of the world’s population dies horribly is a person with seriously screwed up morals, and I always worry that some of them will get so confused they will actively cause the disasters they pray will happen.

  • The difference seems to be that Hagee (like Robertson, Falwell, Dobson, and others) is a wealthy, white Christian, for whom a certain tolerance is expected.

    Hear hear.

  • Actually it’s more like the stupidity of the Democrat media, and the cover provided to the anti-Semitic Iranian government provided by “liberals”. “Liberals” do remember that Iran publicly and constantly threatens to destroy Israel, right? Yet, “liberals” praise this anti-Semitism. And then accuse those who agree that this racist anti-Semitism and threats from the Iranian government of being racists against Muslims. Except Islam isn’t a “race”, it’s a religion.

    Louis Farrakhan, on the other hand, is a racist. His anti-white and anti-Semitic views are publicly known. Obama and his campaign need to begin disavowing any ties to the racist Farrakhan. If McCain ever finds out he is being supported by, let’s say, the racists in the Ku Klux Klan or Stormfront, he would have to do so quickly as well. Hagee’s views on Iran aren’t racist.

    There is no double-standard. It is only being presented by “liberals” who have no standards by using false arguments.

    Nice try.

  • Iran publicly and constantly threatens to destroy Israel, right?

    Really the entire country threatens Isreal everyday….or just one deluded man who’s influence wanes with everyday…..

    Talk about false arguements….

    If mcCain had to disavow every Republican racist who will eventually support him….the man would have no time to campaign

  • Steve Funny how CB didn’t cite this statement from the linked story (which sounds quite reasonable to me):

    Mr. Hagee, the pastor of the Cornerstone Church, said that his support for Israel had nothing to do with prophetic scenarios, but rather because he felt the cause was just. “They are a democracy in the Middle East that deserves the support of America and Christian people everywhere,’’ Mr. Hagee said.

    yet puts in this line: “a political philosophy “rooted in biblical prophecies and a belief that Israel’s struggles signal a prelude to Armageddon.”

    Spin away, CB!!

  • I hope the blogosphere really goes after Hagee. (For information on this particularly dangerous nut, check out either the Talk2Action or JewsOn1st websites. There was a very good program on NPR, a “Fresh Air” which has Hagee and two of his critics being interviewed — separately.)

    In fact, Hillary’s attack on Obama’s pastor — and any McCain or Republican echo of it — should be taken as an opportunity by Obama to look at what the ‘prominent Christians’ who are supporting McCain believe.

    I can hear him. “I have been a Christian all my life, but not everyone who calls himself a Christian believes the same things. There are some so-called Christians out their whose beliefs are dangerous. Some of my audience can recall when the Ku Klux Klans had their Kludds, chaplains who believed they could bring a ‘Christian’ blessing to a lynching.
    “Now my opponents have brought up the opinion of my pastor, an opinion which I do not agree with and have shown my disagreement with In fact I have both rejected and denounced it. And yes, I am sure that there are other people supporting me whose ideas I would condemn as strongly.
    “But this ‘rejecting’ and ‘denouncing’ shouldn’t be one-sided. There are pastors calling themselves Christians who support Sen. McCain who have equally horrible ideas, ideas which I call on my opponent to condemn. Take Pastor John Hagee, who urges America to support Israel, not for any love of the Jews or Israel, but so that a war will start, an Armageddon that wll hasten, he believes, the second coming.

    “I know my opponent would see this idea as horrible, that he has no sympathy for such thinking. But I don’t hear any ‘rejecting’ or ‘denouncing’ coming from my opponent’s side.

    ‘I hear other ideas preached. The idea that being rich is a sign of God’s approval, taught in the name of Jesus who spoke of the importance of the poor. The idea — however carefully couched in code words — that we should fear those who worship other Gods, or women, or blacks, or our gay brothers and sister under God, preached in the name of he who taught us to love all equally. Even those who praise the ‘goodness’ of war — war is sometimes necessary, it is never good — against our enemies, in the name of the Prince of Peace. Why are these travesties of Christianity equally denounced by both sides. I’ll start by rejecting them all, right here on this stage. And I call on Senator McCain to join me in this denouncing.”

  • #13 JRS: above

    So you have a fundamentalist Christian preacher in texas with the flags of Israel hanging from the rafters and he’s doing so simply because he “felt the cause was just”? who’s spinning who? Also, in his book Jerusalem Countdown: A Warning to the World, Hagee interprets the Bible to predict Russia and the Islamic states will invade Israel and be destroyed by God. This will cause the anti-Christ, the head of the European Union, to create a confrontation over Israel between China and the West. A final battle between East and West at Armageddon will then precipitate the Second Coming of Christ.

    CB: After all, if Tim Russert can quiz Obama on Farrakhan’s lunacy, or nutty comments from Harry Belafonte, McCain can at least expound a bit on his new friend’s end-times prophecies.

    Absolutely right on the money Steve. Question is, how to get the MSM to apply the principle of universality?

  • “who’s spinning who?”

    Then why wasn’t that paragraph included in the post??? Answer: Because it didn’t quite fit CB’s conclusion.

  • Of course, to the lizard brains out there, Obama’s responsible for what any black person thinks. Everybody knows they all think the same. Just like all gay people think the same. That’s why we know they have an “agenda.” Just like all terrorists think the same. All the groups these nutjobs are most afraid of (i.e. anybody “different”) are perforce lumped together in one twisted mass in their tiny minds. Honestly, talking to some of these people you’d think that gay people have big conventions and leaders who direct their actions. They probably use the same secret convention centers as “the terrorists” and “those black people.” Damn, when they have conventions of gay black terrorists they must really have a hard time keeping it a secret!

  • Swell, we’re moving from IOKIYR to IOKIYC (which, apparently, is one in the same). Not only are our founding fathers spinning in their graves but Jesus Christ is, too.

    Got a news flash for those end of timers who do anything but follow Christ’s teachings…you ain’t gonna make the cut!

    Fu(king hypocrites!

  • Obama accepted the support of the racist Louis Farrakhan. By denouncing his comments, he really did not reject his support, and was reluctant to do so during the debate. This leads people to believe that he still wanted his support, while trying to seperate the words from the man himself.

    Besides that, he knew ahead of time about Farrakhan’s anti-semetic views, whereas McCain did not know (supposedly) what the right wing radio host was going to say, and immediately denounced it.

    Don’t you understand that perception is reality in politics, and the perception is that Obama is NOT a leader, and did not reject the support of a racist because he was afraid of the backlash from the islamic community. Shit, even McCain was willing to endure the backlash from conservatives for his position, not that I will vote for him in November mind you, but if Obama is the nominee, expect to hear about this again.. yet another weapon for McCain to use in the months leading up to November.

  • #19 Greg: Obama accepted the support of the racist Louis Farrakhan. By denouncing his comments, he really did not reject his support, and was reluctant to do so during the debate. This leads people to believe that he still wanted his support, while trying to seperate the words from the man himself.

    it appears obama’s artful response during the debate was over more peoples’ heads than i thought (including clinton’s), but for the sake of redundancy, obama renounced farrakhan since there was no support offered to reject. and yet obama dumbed it down and both renounced and rejected, even tho the latter was irrelevant and a red herring to students of logic.

  • Greg, you have failed a reading/listening comprehension. Thanks for playing.

    OBAMA: Tim, I have to say I don’t see a difference between denouncing and rejecting. There’s no formal offer of help from Minister Farrakhan that would involve me rejecting it. But if the word “reject” Senator Clinton feels is stronger than the word “denounce,” then I’m happy to concede the point, and I would reject and denounce.

    What part of “I would reject and denounce” don’t you get?

    I = Obama
    Would = Express inclination
    Reject = Refuse to accept
    And = Conjunction
    Denounce = Condemn openly

    …and the perception is that Obama is NOT a leader…

    Oh, I’m so confused, I thought the perception was he was the mesiah, which clearly indicates leadership qualities. Now he’s not a leader?

    Hey, can you forward the latest talking points to me, please? I must’ve missplaced them.

    Besides that, he knew ahead of time about Farrakhan’s anti-semetic views, whereas McCain did not know (supposedly) what the right wing radio host was going to say, and immediately denounced it. -Greg

    So? Obama didn’t ask Farrakhan for anything. (Should Farrakhan be denied his First Amendment rights?) Cunningham was asked by the McCain campaign to intro him. There is a completely different level of responsibility there. You can’t control every asshat out there, but you should vet the ones you ask to speak on your behalf.

    Just sad how many people don’t get this. Sad.

  • What I got from Obama’s statement was that he wasn’t about to stifle any voter’s right to say what they want. Hmmm…that sounds American to me. Whether you like Farrakhan or not (I hate him), he has as much of a right to talk about, or endorse, anyone as James Dobson (whom I also despise) and other hate people?

    The fact is that the only thing a candidate should do is denounce their speakings. Their right to speak as a citizen should always remain, no matter whether we like them or not. That is freedom…something we are losing more of daily.

  • Don’t be an asshole doubtful, I’m no idiot and don’t need you to “dumb” it down for me. If you can’t accept differing opinions, then you and the rest of the Obamaniacs will certainly be unprepared for the upcoming onslaught from the right.

    He did not initially reject his support, and therefore percievably accepted it until he was once again shown by Hillary how a true leader SHOULD act.

    Denouncing his anti-semetic remarks is NOT the same thing as rejecting his support, I don’t give a damn what the definition of the word denounce is, the fact is that he did not denounce his support, again he denounced his remarks.. if you think there is not a difference then you are naive.

  • Don’t be an asshole doubtful… -Greg

    Ah, but I so excel at it. Do what you love, and all…

    If you can’t accept differing opinions, then you and the rest of the Obamaniacs will certainly be unprepared for the upcoming onslaught from the right. -Greg

    The problem is, and this is the same problem I’ve had with the right wing morons for years (what a level to sink to), is that there is fact, truth, and no other “opinion” in this case.

    Again, Obama said he denounced and rejected him.

    I don’t give a damn what the definition of the word denounce is… -Greg

    Yeah, why let stupid things like the meaning of words stand in the way of your talking points.

    Get real, he said he denounced and rejected him. What the hell else do you want him to do? Knock over his mailbox?

    Again, you have failed at reading comprehension.

  • #24 Greg: He did not initially reject his support,…

    greg, i’m not picking on you, but in the context of the debate obama made it clear no support had been offered by farrakhan, so there was nothing to reject. clinton either a) didn’t understand the nuance or b) sought to grandstand or c) both, which obama deftly avoided by conceding the meaningless point.

    greatness is in the details, and obama is demonstrating he has the right stuff. whether people can recognize it is another story.

  • Greg, you’re attacking doubtful for not accepting differing opinions, when he simply pointed out you don’t know your facts. You claimed that Obama did not reject the support of Farrakhan. Doubtful showed you that he did, so you’re wrong. This is a fact. Direct quote as it were.

    Why in fact, it smacks of desperation when the only attack one can muster is a rhetorical difference between denounce and reject. Obama attacked the views of Farrakhan repeatedly, and was willing to renounce, denounce, and pronounce whatever minute, insignificant difference one could muster between rejecting and denouncing.

    For someone who does not give a damn what the definition of denounce is, you sure seem to care a lot about the definition of reject. Therefore, I both denounce and reject Greg’s intelligence.

  • I was not attacking doubtful, I was in fact sticking up for myself. If you read his reply to my original remarks you would see that he was treating me like I was some kind of idiot.

    Back to the topic at hand.. this comes straight from CNN:

    “During the debate, Obama repeated his denunciation of Farrakhan’s views, which have included numerous anti-Semitic comments. And, after being pressed, he rejected Farrakhan’s support in the presidential race.”

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    He did not reject his support until being pressed, and then he made it into a joke, and it is frankly not funny anymore.

  • Get real, he said he denounced and rejected him. What the hell else do you want him to do? Knock over his mailbox?

    LOL!! Touché!

  • and I was merely pointing out that this would come back to haunt him in the general election.. if you don’t think so, then you are naive too, and probably think all those republicans voting for him are doing so because they plan to vote for him in the general election instead of playing spoilers in the democratic nomination.

  • Hagee skips over the admonition that gluttony is a sin. This fat piece of shit, Hagee, is pure scum. Dangerous scum. He believes that all of the Jews must die in order for Jesus to return and reign for a thousand years. He once told his flock that the AIDS virus could live on a plate for 12 hours. That all the unclean, dirty gays drink each others urine and play with each others feces. He also advocated for the quarantine of AIDS patience and the incarceration of the GLBT community. I wanted to vomit yesterday when I saw McCain accepting the endorsement of the Hagee scum. I don’t see any difference between Hagee and Farrakhan as they are both crazy and hateful pieces of shit!

  • #28 Greg: He did not reject his support until being pressed, and then he made it into a joke, and it is frankly not funny anymore.

    wow, you still don’t get it.

    this is what scares me about general elections — people don’t vote based on the facts, they vote based on what they want to believe the facts to be.

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