It doesn’t sound like Clinton’s going anywhere anytime soon

In case there was any doubt at all about Hillary Clinton’s intention to keep fighting for the Democratic nomination, as long as it takes, the senator made her objectives clear in an interview with Time’s Mark Halperin. When Halperin asked about her “most likely path to victory,” given the very high hurdles in front of her. Clinton said:

“Well, first I think that it’s important to point out that the premise of the whole discussion that some people are engaged in is off base because this is a very close race and neither of us will reach the magic number of delegates. We’re both going to be short, and when you think about the many millions of people who have already voted, we are separated by a relatively small percentage of votes. We’re separated by, you know, a little more than a hundred delegates. I’ve won states that Democrats need to win in the general election in order to win the White House and obviously the strategy on the other side is to try to shut this race down, but I don’t think voters want that.”

Some of these points strike me as more persuasive than others. When Clinton emphasizes that she and Obama are “separated by a relatively small percentage of votes,” she’s quite right. Obama will end the process with more pledged delegates, and almost certainly more popular votes, but the margins are going to be modest. As far as Clinton’s concerned, there’s a key difference between a 3-point margin and a 23-point margin. Fair enough.

When she emphasizes having won key general-election states, I’m far less impressed. The link between primary victories and general-election victories is very weak, and this whole line of thinking seems flawed.

As for Clinton’s Democratic rivals trying to “shut this race down,” I’m fairly certain the Obama campaign hasn’t ever said this, or even anything close, but is it really that bad to talk openly about ending the process? In January, Clinton talked about ending the race on Feb. 5. Obviously, things didn’t work out as she planned, but no one accused her at the time of wanting to “shut this race down.”

What’s more, voters don’t want the race to end? Are you sure? (That’s only half-way intended as a rhetorical question. I haven’t seen any recent polls indicating whether Dems would prefer this to be over, but if anyone has, let me know. My guess is most Dems just want it to be over, but I’d like some empirical data to back that up.)

This was an interesting exchange, too.

Halperin: Last question Senator. Some people look at the current state of the delegate counts and say the only way you can win the nomination is at the convention, with a convention where delegates move around perhaps, and you’ll make your case side by side. Are you comfortable if that’s the way you win the nomination, going all the way to Denver and winning it there? Is that a comfortable outcome for you?

Clinton: You know it’s the same thing for Senator Obama. Neither of us will reach the number of delegates needed. So I think that that is, you know, the reality for both of our campaigns. And all delegates have to assess who they think will be the strongest nominee against McCain and who they believe would do the best job in bringing along the down-ballot races and who they think would be the best President. And, from my perspective, those are all very legitimate questions, and as you know so well, Mark, every delegate with very few exceptions is free to make up his or her mind however they choose. We talk a lot about so-called pledged delegates, but every delegate is expected to exercise independent judgment. And, you know, I’m just going to do the best I can in the next 10 contests to make my case to the voters in those elections and then we’ll see where we are.

First, it doesn’t sound like she’s going anywhere anytime soon.

Second, since when did anyone start calling them “so-called pledged delegates”?

This primary campaign is Clinton’s Iraq. She can’t just pull out.

  • First, it doesn’t sound like she’s going anywhere anytime soon. Second, since when did anyone start calling them “so-called pledged delegates”?

    Agreed on the first point. As to the second, she’s the fat lady who won’t sing because she’s too invested in hogging the stage, even if it means creating pointless drama with “so-called pledged delegates” and the like. If she had played this straight, I’d understand — and agree — that she should hang in till the end. But when you have to resort to kitchen sinks, exaggerations, fabrications and disingenuous personal attacks that elevate the Repub over the Dem (remember, “Shame on you, BO?” He was correct!) you forfeit legitimacy.

    A while back, Tom Brokaw teased with some business about 50 supers ready to commit to Obama. Unless he was blowing smoke, it’s time they come forward and do the deed, because it’s scorched earth time at Clinton HQ.

  • you know, there is a great Dan Hill song for occasions like these:

    How Can I Miss You if You Won’t Go Away?”

  • The lies of Hillary Clinton during this campaign:

    * I only supported the war authorization to get inspectors in (note: she was a cheerleader on the eve of the invasion).

    * The Obama campaign is responsible for the MLK/LBJ flap.

    * Barak Obama said the Republicans have better ideas.

    * Michigan won’t matter…(fast forward)…I’m proud to have won Michigan.

    * Florida Republicans decided to move the Florida primary up against the wishes of Florida Dems.

    * I’m a long-time critic of NAFTA.

    * Barak Obama winked and nodded to the Canadians about NAFTA (note: she’s peddling this story in Pennsylvania long after it has been discredited).

    * I helped bring peace to Ireland.

    * I had to run and duck to avoid snipers in Bosnia.

    * Requesting tax returns are Rovian tactics (note: she did the same to her Republican opponent in 2000).

    Just a few off the top of my head. I’m sure there are many, many more.

    To think that I used to admire and respect Hillary.

    How anybody could vote for this person is beyond me.

  • Excuse the swan, but I’d also add that now is the time for Obama to focus on McCain and let HRC spin in her own grave. Reclaim the momentum and take it to the real opposition. Look presidential.

  • regarding the difference bewteen 3% and 23%, consider Bowers’ assessment in his post today:
    http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4798

    Myth: The pledged delegate count is close
    Fact: Obama leads pledged delegates by 6.0% with only 17.4% remaining
    According to the best available count, Obama currently leads among pledged delegates 1,415.5 to 1,253.5, a margin of 162 with 18 delegates currently for Edwards and 566 left to be determined. In terms of percentages, this translates to Obama 52.7%–46.7% Clinton, with 82.6% reporting. In any other campaign, if a candidate led by 6% with 83% reporting, all major news outlets would project that candidate as the winner. 6.0% is greater than the margin by which Bill Clinton won the 1992 election, and also greater than the margin by which Republicans won the 2002 midterms. I don’t know anyone who follows politics who considers those close campaigns.

    6% is not terribly close.

    Also: when Clinton says, “You know it’s the same thing for Senator Obama. Neither of us will reach the number of delegates needed”, she’s just engaging in wishful thinking. Based on Bowers’ projections of the final 10 contests, without Fl and MI, Obama WILL most likely reach 2024 by June 3 (and probably before), since he will need just 33.7 of the remaining 263 superdelegates. That’s just 88.5 supers to end it. Conversely, Clinton would need 193.5.
    http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4703

  • It’s moot. She’s done.

    If you look at a graph of delegates:

    http://worldwideweave.com/dem/

    The trend is quite clear. She has been losing ground since the first vote was cast. She’s lost more ground as time goes by. She has not had a single week where she has acquired more delegates than he has.

    Her best hope is James Earl Ray.

  • In January, Clinton talked about ending the race on Feb. 5. Obviously, things didn’t work out as she planned, but no one accused her at the time of wanting to “shut this race down”.

    Does anyone have any quotes from back then (seems so long ago)? I know that she was expecting the primaries to be over after Super Tuesday with her as the nominee. It would be interesting to see how the messaging has changed

  • Wow, that’s something I hadn’t really thought of before, but for as much as the Hillary people insist that it’s wrong to end the primary early by having Hillary drop out, she HAD assumed she was going to win it on Super Tuesday and had no plan or money to continue campaigning after that. Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania weren’t even supposed to matter and she expected all her opponents to have dropped out long before now.

    But somehow, something seems to have happened that has changed her thinking on that. Huh, I wonder what that could be. Oh yeah, self-interest. Now it’s very important to continue a process until August that she thought would be over at the beginning of February.

  • What David Brooks said (word for word for word): The Longest Defeat.

    Most delicious quote:

    For nearly 20 years, she has been encased in the apparatus of political celebrity. Look at her schedule as first lady and ever since. Think of the thousands of staged events, the tens of thousands of times she has pretended to be delighted to see someone she doesn’t know, the hundreds of thousands times she has recited empty clichés and exhortatory banalities, the millions of photos she has posed for in which she is supposed to appear empathetic or tough, the billions of politically opportune half-truths that have bounced around her head.
    No wonder the Clinton campaign feels impersonal. It’s like a machine for the production of politics. It plows ahead from event to event following its own iron logic. The only question is whether Clinton herself can step outside the apparatus long enough to turn it off and withdraw voluntarily or whether she will force the rest of her party to intervene and jam the gears.

  • It is wishful thinking for Hillary to believe that Obama can’t sew it up before summer. See the links above to Chris Bowers’ post about the delegate math. Obama can get to 2024 after the May 6 IN/NC races if he isn’t blown out completely in PA. And I don’t think he will be. He won the majority of delegates out of the Mar 4 races (and the Feb 3 races) and will out of the April 22/May 6 races. Then if he gets a few more supers he’s got it.

    She is talking tough now to try to get the most votes possible in PA-IN-NC, but after that I think there will be a reappraisal. If not by her, then by a majority of the remaining supers, and she will be effectively out.

  • Hey—The Kaiser and his crew were pretty much defeated in the Spring of 1917—and it took them until November 1918 to finally toss in the towel. If the free world could endure what was an unnecessary 18 months of war because of some stubborn old fool wearing a spiked helmet, then I’m quite sure that America can survive another few months of a crazed old fool, ex-resident of the WH with a spiked ego….

  • The bottom line seems to be that Hillary is quite willing to rip up the Democratic party in order to try to win, which is highly unlikely. In fact, continuing to prolong this B.S. is only giving McCain time to sell himself. If the Dems lose this election, the blame will attribute to Bill and Hillary. And Carville called Richardson a “Judas?” What a complete joke!!

  • What’s more, voters don’t want the race to end? Are you sure?

    My guess is the voters of the remaining 8 states still want a crack at it. The rest of us have been waiting for it to end since we pulled the lever 4, 8 or 12 weeks ago.

  • Regarding how close the delegate count is, everything’s relative. In basketball, a five point lead in the final minute of the game is definitely surmountable. In soccer, the game would essentially be over. And in this primary, we’re in the closing seconds of the soccer game and the only way Hillary can win is if she can convince the refs to give her six straight penalty kicks. Unfortunately for this game, the refs have given themselves the ability to do so, and Hillary’s going to try her damnedest to make it happen.

  • Living in Indiana, and being a Clinton supporter who realizes Obama will likely be the nominee, and will support him wholeheartedly – I am delighted that the candidates will actually have to make appearances in my state to campaign this year. Usually by this time, it is over (Indiana’s got a late primary). Chelsea was in town just a couple of days ago.

    I know you hate it, but it’s good for democracy, it tests the candidate (the Republican slime machine will not be polite about these “non-issue” things – and it will be old news by then) – and, finally, it keeps the focus on the Democrats.

  • Obama can get to 2024 after the May 6 IN/NC races if he isn’t blown out completely in PA.

    I’d like to believe that, but that’s not true. He can cement an absolute majority (50% + 1) by that point, which would guarantee he’d have the lead going into the convention no matter what happened next.

    But there’s no way to get to 2024 before the convention. If Obama won every single primary/caucus delegate left on the table, he’d still only have 1979.

  • Second, since when did anyone start calling them “so-called pledged delegates”?

    TPM posted a letter to Pelosi from twenty top Clinton donors complaining about her for publicly saying that the super-delegates should support the winner of the pledged delegate count. But that’s not all they said:

    “We therefore urge you to clarify your position on super-delegates and reflect in your comments a more open view to the optional independent actions of each of the delegates at the National Convention in August…”

    This mess is going to drag on through August and I’m going to hate the Clintons for the rest of my life.

  • Has anyone asked Hillary how she expects to win the general election if the superdelegates overturn the popular vote? Does she really expect to get the necessary support of the people she shoves a knife into?

  • I know you hate it, but it’s good for democracy, it tests the candidate (the Republican slime machine will not be polite about these “non-issue” things – and it will be old news by then) – and, finally, it keeps the focus on the Democrats.

    All true and all good, just as long as each side stops handing the Republicans ammunition.

    By that I don’t mean they can’t campaign hard against each other — there’s nothing they’ll dig up that the GOP machine wouldn’t bring out in the general, and hell, might as well float it now rather than in October, right?

    But they need to be sure not to provide soundbites that McCain can use against our nominee, like Clinton’s “commander in chief threshold,” and they need to avoid really alienating each other’s supporters.

    If they can avoid that, then great. It’ll keep bringing new Democrats to the party, keep spreading our message, and keep crowding out McCain’s — all good. But if Hillary’s campaign really is determined to cross those lines, then I do think it’s time to bring this to an end.

  • TAPPED has a post up today with a poll showing 62% of Dems do want the race to continue. I think they’re crazy, but there you have it.

  • TAPPED has a post up today with a poll showing 62% of Dems do want the race to continue.

    Ugh. Not surprising, though. Say 45% or so would be people who want Hillary to win, and know it would need to continue; the other 17% might be in states yet to vote, or just masochists.

  • She’s not going anywhere on her own (never was). The only way to effectively end this thing before the last primary is if a large block of SD’s move to Obama, making the delegate math impossible for her.

    The party elders will have to make it happen.

  • She might as well stay in, keep the good times rolling. There’s still time for Obama to embrace Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or tapes to surface of Hillary doing Gore.
    Obama refuses to condemn his racist, anti-Semitic homophobe spiritual advisor, Hillary is ducking and running, and McCain might drop a nuke on Iran in a fit of temper. And any of the three is better than the immoral clown now occupying the office. Unless McCain picks Huckabee or Meg Whitman as his VP. That’d be enough to make George look good.

  • TR @ 24:

    I don’t think that’s it at all, though it is a reasonable thought. To be honest, I think it’s just a reflection of how little most voters follow this stuff, even primary voters. Even though it was well-known 2 weeks before TexOhio that Clinton would need to win both, and win both BIG, to stay competitive, a majority of Dems thought she should keep in even if she only won one of those states, narrowly. This was someone who already, at that point, was basically behind too far to catch up and lost 11 straight blow-outs.

    How does that make any sense? It makes sense if you only are paying attention at the margins and hear some guy say it’s neck-and-neck or read a quote from Hillary saying “its only a hundred or so separating us” (actually, its 162, but w/e). And there’s nothing wrong with that. I’d prefer it if people were more engaged, but I’m happy that people are paying attention at all, actually voting, etc. But we have to understand the reality that the majority of Dems won’t want this race to end until a super-majority of Dems who’ve already voted hear, consistently, from both the media and party leaders, that Hillary has -0- chance of winning and her staying in the race and taking the tone she has been taking is damaging to the party. It’s quite understandable for colonpowwow and others to want the race to go on just to see the candidates, also.

    We’ve only just started to see some media and party leaders express this sentiment. Until that’s the widely-held CW among the media and voters, we won’t see much movement in those numbers.

    Now, the thing is, I’m of the mind that Hillary can stay in as long as she wants…so long as she’s not engaging in attempts at character assassination. I think, however, that the party leaders are well within their rights to sit her down and tell her that if she continues along these lines there is no chance she’ll get anymore super delegate endorsements. And I think we’re already starting to see some leaders lay the foundation for a push to end this from the establishment Dems (anonymous DNCers referencing “Tanya Harding”, Harry Reid ominously saying things are being done, Bill Richardson quite openly making the case that the race shouldn’t be negative and Dems should start rallying around the presumptive nominee, etc etc). Those might be shots across the bow to Hillary, saying, “hey–ease up”, or not, I dunno, this is very much insider baseball

    But I don’t hink the party leaders can come down emphatically on this issue until those numbers go down.

  • Okay—just for the heck of it, let’s play the numbers game:

    I’ll use the numbers from MSNBC’s count that shows Obama with 1,408 delegates from primaries and caucuses, and another 218 supers, for a total-to-date of 1,626 delegates (conventionals and supers combined).

    With Florida and Michigan out of the equation now, Obama needs to reach a total of 2,024 combined delegates. If I subtract 1,626 from 2,024, he is exactly 398 delegates short of garnering the nomination prior to the convention.

    As of right now, there are 10 contests remaining in the Democratic Primary, with a total of 566 delegates at stake.

    Going back to the MSNBC numbers, Clinton has 288 supers in her corner. Add that number to Obama’s for a total of 473 committed supers, and then subtract those 473 committed supers from the total amount available—795—and I’m seeing a remaining quantity of 322 supers who are “still in play.”

    Now, let’s go back to those delegates coming from the 10 remaining contests—566—and add them to the remaining supers—322—and we come up with this math sentence:

    566 + 322 = 888.

    Finally, we can look at this from one of two angles. First is the simple math: Comparing what Obama needs to get the nomination (398) to what’s still available (888). This equation alone starts to spell out the theory that Obama will win this thing. Even if he only gets half of the remaining committed delegates, that’s 283 off of the magic number of 398, for a remaining “need” of 115 (out of 322 remaining supers).

    But—two things are beginning to play out here. First, the ad-nauseum negative “kitchen sink campaign” has caused her “negative rating” to skyrocket to a point where she’s approaching Bu$h-esque popularity (or lack thereof, depending on how we might want to view it). Second is the combination of (1) bringing up the Wright factor after the media decided it was a dead horse, (2) the Scaife “pact,” (3) the embracing of McCain, (4) the faux sniper issue during her red-carpet runway event, and (5) the “Faust-like” embracing of FOX. If people in Pennsylvania and elsewhere start seeing this all as a reason for Dante to start work on that “8th Concentric Circle,” then Obama might even carry Pennsylvania by 20 or so delegates.

    Is that a reach? Yep—but so was Clinton’s belief that the media would devour Obama over the Wright controversy; the promotion that she had “35 years of demonstrable experience” (I do so want to write “monstrous” experience—but I’ll behave, if only because I’m doing my “Professor Steve” thing here); and the notion from the outset of the campaign prologue that she was “the inevitable nominee.”

    But, I digress. Coming back to the numbers, should Obama win Pennsylvania by a large amount, those additional 20 delegates drops his eventual magic number to 95. Should he win Pennsylvania, the remaining 9 contests will, in all likelihood, go his way as well—at an even more lopsided quantity as would a 50/50 split. The overall end could easily turn into a 60/40 split favoring Obama—about another 40 delegates to subtract from that magic number. “95” now becomes “55”—and to suggest that Obama cannot garner 55 votes from those remaining 322 superdelegates is an incredulously stupid thing to do.

    Oh, yes—I do expect the Hillistines to come out of the woodwork and taunt my math—but they taunted it all through January when “the Invincible One” was supposed to kick Obama’s butt back to Illinois….

  • As long as none of the three ask Larry Craig to be their VP, I’m fine, snicker.

  • Thanks for that Steve.

    Your brilliant post didn’t fall in the net forest unheard.

  • @27 saying “his racist, anti-Semitic homophobe spiritual advisor ”

    Uh, do you have any quotes (with links so I can see the context) for him for those claims?

    From what I’ve read, the UCC is actually quite welcoming of gays, he developed AIDS programs and services in his community and has spoken against homophobia, after having held different views earlier (as did many if not most churches 3-4 decades ago).

    Let’s not state rumors as fact without backing it up.

  • Hillary and Bill now have their big donors thugs threaten the DNC “demanding” their money back.

    Obama’a supporters would happily replace the Clinton donor money for the DNC. One email from Obama could raise the DNC $1,000,000… and another, and another. His donor list would also raise millions for close Congressional elections where the Dems could pick up many new seats.

    It’s not just electability that compels an immediate Hillary withdrawal, but also major cash for the Democrats coffers. The Superdelegates and Democratic professionals should understand that Obama’s coattails includes major cash for their elections. It is well past to move beyond the Clinton/Bush legacy. It is time for the party leaders to insist that Hillary end her failed endeavor.

  • I will vote in the primary for Hillary. I will vote in the election for Hillary. Even if the party picks Obama I will write in a vote for Hillary. I will not vote for a man who has the nerve to say that he has never heard his minister talk that way when he’s been attending for around 20. Poppy cock. He’s lying period.

  • Hillary and Bill now have their big donors thugs threaten the DNC “demanding” their money back. — gani, @33

    That’s sooo … yesterday. The blackmail du jour is chastising Pelosi and reminding her that they *had been* generous to DCC in the past… (details on TPM Election Central).

    One of the reasons it’s difficult to stay ahead, financially (especially in this stinking economy), is that not only does one need to support Obama, but the Dem National Committee (Dean), the Dem Congressional one (though, if Rahm Emanuel doesn’t declare soon, he can go whistle for my contributions) and the Dem Senatorial one. They *all* need cash to whoop Repub ass in November. And we need majorities in both houses probably even more than we need a Dem Pres (for example, a filibuster-proof Senate can stop McCain’s worst nominations to the Supreme Court)… But one worries about how they’re going to dispose of it, if you send them any; I don’t want it going to Clinton. For me, that’s one — very important — reason to have the nominee wrapped up as soon as possible.

  • Note the comment at 34, and you see why the Democrats have a problem here.

    Obama’s going to win–and even if he doesn’t, somehow, Hillary won’t be the beneficiary. A 37 percent approval rating seven and a half months before the election, with someone whom half the country detested *before* she started throwing The Sink, pretty much is the definition of “unelectable.”

    But if they crowd her out, at least one or two million “Rebeccas”–individuals, I’m guessing mostly women, who see their own life struggles in Sen. Clinton’s campaign, and see in Obama every man who’s put one over on them because of the sexism that still is a force in our society–will return the favor, probably dooming the Democrats in the fall.

    It’s irrational–Obama’s failure to denounce Wright, a man who legitimately reflects the grievances of his community and has been overall a very positive force within that community (including, like Obama, his almost unprecedented willingness to confront the homophobia within the African-American church), is somehow less offensive than Clinton’s chronic lies, most recently about her death-defying Bosnian adventure–but then, so is most everything else about voting. (How else could McCain poll ahead of them both?)

    I could add that, for a variety of reasons, Hillary Clinton is about the worst imaginable champion for the legitimate grievances of American women… but she’s the one in this race, so that doesn’t matter. Much as I wish we had Laura Roslin running for president, we don’t.

    Now, if Clinton were a responsible leader or someone who put party and principle ahead of personal ambition, she’d see the writing on the wall and conclude that her historical reputation and future clout in the Senate–which is what she’s playing for now; it’s a near-certainty that she’ll never be president–would benefit by graciously withdrawing and offering wholehearted support for the party’s nominee.

    Instead, she seems willing, if not eager, to lead her supporters right over the cliff–and take the party, and very possibly the country with her.

    This is why so many of us have come to view the Clintons as… well… monsters, of narcissism at any rate. How else can you describe someone whose self-regard is so vast that they see no possible daylight between what’s best for them and what’s best for their country?

  • 28: Michael, that’s a good point, and better than my flippant response.

    29: Steve, excellent work.

  • I will not vote for a man who has the nerve to say that he has never heard his minister talk that way when he’s been attending for around 20. Poppy cock. He’s lying period.

    Well, the Clintons would certainly never lie to you, would they?

    I’m starting to think that this election might lead to a nice realignment of the parties. Given his track record so far, I think Obama can bring lots of independents and the few remaining non-insane Republicans over to our party, where we can work to actually solve the real problems facing this country.

    And in return we can send the hyperventilating, pearl-clutching folks who get outraged — OUTRAGED! — over stupid shit like this over into the reformulated holier-than-thou Repuritan Party. St. Hillary’s already made alliances with their worst assholes, so it should be an easy transition.

  • Okay, maybe I’m getting a little hysterical here, the WBE can do that to you, but I think I see hints of her next (or next-but-one) strategy here.

    If as predicted, Harry Reid, Pelosi, and Dean get together to end this WWI-style trench warfare, and if Obama rolls out a number of SuperDelegates (I’ve always doubted the idea that Hillary had them in her pocket before, and now I’m sure the majority will break his way because they aren’t total idiots — or why did we Democrats elect them as we did most of them) to give him the nomination, she’s not going to give up even then.

    Can’t you see it. “Vote for me, the candidate of the ‘true democratic’ voters, instead of Obama, the candidate of the Party Bosses!” She’ll be working the delegates — using her ‘they are bound to use their judgment not to follow their pledges’ routine.

    And when she loses that fight, well, I am becoming less convinced that a McCain/Clinton or a Clinton/Lieberman 3rd Party is out of the question. (She can afford to tie up with McCain, since he will only have one term — at most.)

    I was really energized earlier in the campaign, and yes, I think I will be again, but right now I am getting so sick of her lies, and all the rest of her baggage from Penn to Scaife that I think I am going to deeper into baseball than even usual.

  • I’ve undergone a strange transformation.

    When Hillary squeaked out her tiny win in Texas and it became clear the race would continue, I felt sick. I was terrified about Dem prospects in the general if the primary continued. But within a couple of days with a little introspection I realized that I was wrong. The best thing for the party is for every State to vote. In fact I really wish Florida and Michigan could revote.

    Here’s why. If you believe in the grass roots, people powered politics sponsored by KOS, and if you’ve been a supporter of Howard Dean’s vision of the 50 State Solution. Nothing could be better for our party than this. Registering new Dems in every state, having 20,000 people rallies all over the country, building an energized youth vote and energized black vote. This is how Democrats are going to take back America. Hillary and Obama going to every state in America and laying down get out the vote operations, grass roots fund raising and building party infrastructure. What we’re witnessing is the future of the Democratic Party.

    This primary has been, for all intents and purposes, a general election. The amount of cash, air time, activism, participation, enthusiasm and even the set backs… It has been a truly national campaign. We got that. The Republicans didn’t. When I hear Carpetbagger opining that McCain is not getting the same scrutiny that Dems are, I understand it, but I also think its short sighted.

    REMINDER: This is not the General Election. This is the Democratic Primary!!! But with the size and scale of this thing is staggering, and it’s sometimes hard to remeber its just the primary.

    Personally, I cannot imagine how a prolonged Dem Primary is a bad thing under any circumstance.

    ~ Full Disclosure:

    I say all of this having no doubt that Clinton has already lost this race, yet I want the race to continue. The only thing that worries me is Hillary’s newfound Dem vs Dem tactics, promoting McCain and so forth. She needs to stick to her message. I’m not saying she shouldn’t play hardball with the issues. It will help inoculate Obama in the General. But she should not try to turn Democrat on Democrat.

    So far I’m pretty satisfied. When she and Bill have injected race, the party and media have punished her for it. When she sews confusion about Michigan and Florida, the party and the press has been pretty good knocking this stuff down. I’m also grateful that this “Wright Controversy” happened now instead of during the General Election. Republicans will not be able to use it in any meaningful way down the road.

    So if all of this continues as it has, I will be very satisfied. I’m confident Hillary’s attacks are good battle scars for Obama to wear come November.

    But that’s just me…

  • Hmmm… If you find yourself confused about the remaining super delegates and you have any concern that they will gravitate to Hillary… Check out Politico’s state by state Super Delegate breakdown. Let’s face it, these are ALL Obama delegates.

    http://www.politico.com/superdelegates/

    Two things to remember when looking at this. First, all the DLC people (Clinton Machine people who owe her favors) where all committed a LONG time ago. Most of them before Super Tuesday. She doesn’t have some reservoir of party comrades ready to bolster her at the convention.

    Second. Look where the uncommitted delegates are from, Obama States mostly. Many of them from states Obama won in Landslides. States that Obama has coat tails in. States where Hillary would have Anti Coat tails… Look at Alaska for example. Obama won by 70%. Hillary has 1 super delegate, which she received before super Tuesday if I remember correctly. And the rest of them… Uncommitted… Where do you think they’re going?

    The idea that these delegates are going to commit hari-kari in their State for the Clinton dynasty is so far in the realm of fantasy as to be ridiculous.

  • When you mention James childmolestin Ray you show your youth. Been through those days; they are as much fun as a punch in the stomach.

  • A final note, before the sun breaks the horizon, I see my shadow, and turn back into a daytime creature once again: There will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000 to 400,000 “Rebecca-types” out there for the general election; not supporting Obama by (1) staying home, or (2) actually voting for McCain—as a way to punish all of us “bad” Americans for the audacity of not supporting “good” Hillary.

    But from the political pattern I have seen to-date—and I can logically expect this pattern to continue—a great many who in another time would have willingly (or “hold-their-nose” willingly) supported the GOP are instead choosing to flee the wreck of the Mediocre-at-best-Ship Bushylvania. I have also seen, in the amassed numbers of votes, vast legions of independents and “new” voters who, under normal circumstances, would not have voted at all.

    That sea-change will bring into the Obama column approximately 3 to 4 million votes in November. Votes that did not exist during the primaries; votes that people want to change as a means of seeking penance for the horrific damages done by the current administration; votes against the madness of McCain as the economy falters further into the rabbit-hole of recession, and the band-aid fixes of billion-dollor bailouts is shown to be just another skim-artist scam to eke one last shot of mass profit into the pockets of the hyperwealthy elite.

    The point? Rebecca and her ilk can go jump, for all I care. America does not need them. America can survive them; will survive them—and will once and for all wipe the stain of political dynasty from “the platter of consensus….”

  • Watching Obama’s attempt at his own rendition of the Brooks Brother’s riot play out has been one of the most interesting aspects of this race for me lately. Doesn’t seem to be getting much traction so far, but you never know. I’ve certainly never expected Hillary to go as quietly as Gore did in 2000 though, and I’ve always thought that fight would have been winnable for him if he hadn’t ceded so much ground at the outset.

  • About half the democratic voters don’t want this to end. The half that voted for Clinton. If you spend all your time on these so-called progressive blogs, you will not appreciate the strength of her support. It looks like Obama is winning here because these blogs have driven away Clinton supporters with their vitriol, aimed at the posters not solely the candidates. Suppressing discussion is not the same as winning an election. It isn’t over until all of the primaries are finished and the votes are counted. Then we will know how things stand going into the convention.

  • These days…

    It’s hard to tell the left from the right:

    1] They both hate Hillary Clinton
    2] They both engage in conspiracy theories about Vince Foster, et al
    3] They both use the same stealth tactics in their attacks
    4] They both draw the most rabid “supporters”
    5] They both preach tolerance, but don’t deliver it
    6] They both engage in yellow journalism
    7] They both deride superdelegates as undemocratic
    8] They both pooh-pooh popular votes as important
    9] They both try to stifle honest dialogue and debate
    10] They both bash centrists as deranged

    Any point I’ve forgotten?

  • I wonder what the Clintons got on the SD.Richardson was brave enough to stand up to the Clinton machine, but it does not seem like the others have the nerve.Now that the party is being threaten by rich donors,I don’t what going to happen. The SD rallying around Obama might be the only thing Hillary will understand. If she some how steal the nomination I don’t see how she will have the support she needs in the fall.

  • I love the people who continue to see Hillary as some kind of victim in all of this.

    Seriously? Hillary?

    She’s a victim of her own ambition if she’s a victim at all.

    I actually liked her and respected her for a long time. However, her recent Scaife-embracing, American Spectator-peddling behavior has made me ashamed that I ever supported her. The Clintons are now living up to every negative stereotype ever created about them– she’s willing to trash the party and risk helping elect someone WORSE than Bush in the fall. (How could McCain be worse– he’s a true neocon who has made jokes about bombing Iran.)

    Hillary agreed to the rules in Florida and Michigan BEFORE those primaries, now she suddenly is angry about them being disenfranchised? How disengenious. If Obama had won them she certainly wouldn’t be fighting for them. It’s just so transparent that it’s ALL about HER.

    If the situation were reversed and Obama had her delegate/state/popular vote numbers he would have stepped down a month ago, if not earlier.

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