It’s his story and he’s sticking to it

James Comey’s testimony this week before the Senate Judiciary Committee has caused all kinds of headaches for Attorney General [tag]Alberto Gonzales[/tag], but Peter Swire touched on one of the more notable problems yesterday — [tag]Comey[/tag] seems to have pointed to an instance in which Gonzales lied under oath.

In a 2006 hearing, Gonzales, during a Judiciary Committee hearing, denied there was any “serious disagreement about the [NSA domestic surveillance] program” among administration officials. This certainly appeared to be demonstrably ridiculous — the disagreements at the Justice Department were so “serious” that it led to a dramatic confrontation in John Ashcroft’s hospital room and nearly led to a mass resignation among senior DoJ officials.

Yesterday, several Senate Dems demanded an explanation. Gonzales responded by sticking to his story.

The Justice Department said yesterday that it will not retract a sworn statement in 2006 by Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales that the Terrorist Surveillance Program had aroused no controversy inside the Bush administration, despite congressional testimony Tuesday that senior departmental officials nearly resigned in 2004 to protest such a program.

The department’s affirmation of Gonzales’s remarks raised fresh questions about the nature of the classified dispute, which former U.S. officials say led then-Deputy Attorney General James B. Comey and as many as eight colleagues to discuss resigning.

It’s possible that Gonzales isn’t lying — but it only leaves one option.

During his 2006 testimony, Gonzales seemed to concede that some, including Comey, expressed reservations over the legality of the surveillance program, but the AG testified, “The point I want to make is that, to my knowledge, none of the reservations dealt with the program that we are talking about today.” (emphasis added)

As Swire explained:

Perhaps Comey’s objections applied to a different domestic spying program. That has a big advantage for Gonzales — he wasn’t lying under oath. But then we would have senior Justice officials confirming that other “programs” exist for domestic spying, something the Administration has never previously stated.

In fact, given yesterday’s refusal to retract the 2006 testimony, it seems Gonzales had to be referring to some other domestic-spying program. Otherwise, he lied under oath.

As for what lawmakers might do about all of this, the question of impeaching Gonzales seems to be more and more common among political observers. Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), appearing on Hardball yesterday, responded to the subject.

MATTHEWS: Well, there’s no way you get it back if the president says he wants to keep it in the hands of his friend, Alberto Gonzales, is there? There’s no constitutional means to remove this man, I guess unless you impeach him.

WHITEHOUSE: That I think is the only legal means. But I think if we continue to put the pressure on, it may get to the point where even if the president’s highest purpose is to get his administration out of Washington without further indictment, it’s still not worth it to carry the weight of Attorney General Gonzales and his incompetent and very unprincipled administration of the Department of Justice.

MATTHEWS: You mention the weight. Do you have enough weight to impeach and convict him and remove him from office?

WHITEHOUSE: You know, after the run that the Republicans took at President Clinton, I think there’s a real bad odor in the public’s mind about that. It is the one device that is at our disposal. It’s been used in the past, for secretaries of war back in the Civil War. But I think right now, everybody’s focus is on really trying to get to the bottom of this and find out for once and for all what happened.

At a minimum, Whitehouse didn’t seem willing to rule impeachment out as a possibility.

Stay tuned.

you know, the only way to remove the “stink” from the clinton impeachment is to use the process for it’s proper purposes – removing corrupt officials for high crimes and misdemeanors. i think you’ll find most americans will understand the difference if democrats would just get this underway….

  • If a Dem administration had an AG who blatantly lied under oath, or was running an illegal domestic spying program, the Republicans would have them impeached almost immediately. And I would APPROVE. But because the Republicans misused a tool Dems are now prohibited from using it correctly?

    Jesus Christ our team sucks.

  • To impeach, the Senate would need 67 votes in favor of conviction. The odds are pretty good that there’s at least 34 votes—33 ReThugs and 1 Lieberman—who will go down with the ship, rather than risk the Pandora’s Box of having Gonzo spill his guts about the criminal enterprise currently operating in the WH.

  • That was one of the themes of this week’s Frontline — that even as the administration defended the NSA wiretaps, there was evidence of wider programs that they wouldn’t admit to. They included several instances of Gonzalez specifically limiting his testimony to “the program we’re talking about today.”

  • “You know, after the run that the Republicans took at President Clinton, I think there’s a real bad odor in the public’s mind about that.”

    So that is the reason why the Dems will not uphold their mandated Constitutional duty to remove these actual criminals from office before they can do even more damage to the US? We might as well have the GOP back in control if this is the case. No accountability is no accountability no matter how it is sliced.

    just bill–agree 100%.

    Impeach them all now. This is one that involves Bush, Gonzales and possibly Cheney. Tri-mpeachment.

  • I know Republicans like bullshit, but our team needs to GET A CLUE…

    WHITEHOUSE: You know, after the run that the Republicans took at President Clinton, I think there’s a real bad odor in the public’s mind about that.

    About impeachment in general? Really? So they wouldn’t support impeaching anyone who actually committed crimes? Come ON.

    I think what needs to happen is that we of the Left need to drag every single Dipshit Donkey to the water trough, and shove their head in until they take a drink.

    Here, Dems. Drink…

    October 2005… By a margin of 50% to 44%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he lied about the war in Iraq…

    …72% of Democrats favored impeachment, compared to 56% of Independents and 20% of Republicans…

    http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-1

    January 16, 2006… By a margin of 52% to 43%, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge’s approval… 66% of Democrats favored impeachment, as did 59% of Independents, and even 23% of Republicans…

    http://www.democrats.com/bush-impeachment-poll-2

    See that? Unless you work for the Republicans, you should support impeachment on multiple counts. By a huge margin.

    And here’s another pressure point we need to be blasting away at:

    Since the wiretapping scandal broke in December, the number of Congressional leaders and commentators – both Democrats and Republicans – who are discussing impeachment has increased exponentially. This of course demolishes the excuse given by Gallup’s Frank Newport (and seconded by the PentaPost’s Richard Morin) last September: “We will certainly ask Americans about their views on impeaching George W. Bush if, and when, there is some discussion of that possibility by congressional leaders, and/or if commentators begin discussing it in the news media. That has not happened to date.” It’s time for the progressive blogosphere to join us in demanding impeachment polls by the Corporate Media.

    Impeachment is not wrong when you’re talking about real crimes of consequence. There’s a real bad odor in the public’s mind about something, and it’s not impeachment. It’s about politicians who won’t do what their bosses demand, and a media that works for criminals.

  • “…to my knowledge, none of the reservations dealt with the program that we are talking about today.”

    See, he just forgot. Nothing to see here. Non-story. Just another case of faulty memories. Gone-zo didn’t take his dose of MK Ultra that morning, that’s all.

  • WHITEHOUSE: “You know, after the run that the Republicans took at President Clinton, I think there’s a real bad odor in the public’s mind about that.”

    A real bad odor? I’ll tell you what fucking smells, Sheldon, is watching a Democrat say that because someone once used a fire extinguisher for a prank, that Democrats are *afraid* to use fire extinguishers to put out the fire that’s been set to the Constitution.

    Jesus fucking H. Christ, no wonder there’s this enduring perception of Democrats as weak on national security and other issues; I wonder if it’s got anything to do with the idea that our party and our politicians are so fucking weak-kneed when it comes to politics that they can’t even be counted on to defend themselves and their interests. Because why the fuck would you trust someone to defend *you* if they can’t defend *themselves*?

    In case Senator Whitehouse has forgotten, Republicans waged a jihad against Clinton over a *BLOWJOB*.

    Luckily, since then, Democrats have refrained from impeaching Bush over a variety of things that a less temperate party might have taken offense at:

    – stealing a presidential election. Who here thinks Republicans would have let Gore get away with winning an election that was that tight?

    – spending the month after the 8/6/01 PDB (title: “OSAMA BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE U.S.”) clearing brush, after telling his CIA briefer, “Great, now you’ve covered your ass.”

    – lying the country into war. Republicans fucking hated it when Clinton did things with the military that *worked*; can you imagine how steamed they’d have been had he done anything that went awry?

    – continuing to escalate our presence in a clusterfuck of a war that he’d gotten us into once it was clear the first few reasons (WMD, spreading democracy, stabilizing the Middle East) were horseshit or Pollyannaish or both.

    – warrantless wiretapping, in one or more programs, against all kinds of people who weren’t so much terrorists as opponents of Bush’s regime. Funny how effectively those nets seem to work at catching “the wrong people” and violating civil liberties. Almost like that’s the real goal.

    – the wholesale firing of US Attorneys for political purposes.

    – drowning an American city.

    – cheerfully sending out his attorney general as a punching bag and finger-pointer because after all, how can the *Justice* Department be expected to know what it’s doing, to avoid obstructing justice, or to tell the truth about anything? If that happened, why, you might as well say that the terrorists have won.

    So yeah, thank god we haven’t *overreacted* and tried to *impeach* anyone lately.

  • “To impeach, the Senate would need 67 votes in favor of conviction.”

    Actually, the House is the body that impeaches an official. A simple majority of those present and voting is needed to impeach. Think of “impeach” as “indict.”

    To convict on the charges raised by the actual impeachment the Senate requires a two-thirds majority, but I believe this is also two thirds of those present and voting. True, in reality most senators would not stay away from the discussion/vote. But who knows.

    And just because one cannot get the majority to convict does not mean that impeachment should not be pursued. In today’s times, every effort should be made to stop/remove these criminals. Failure to take every step possible makes those who have the power to try to do something complicit and enablers. Maybe if our people/soldiers and Iraqis were not dying due to the misconduct of these officials I would not be so dramatic or pushy. But that is not the circumstance before us.

    Impeach. Them. All. Now.

  • In response to Steve: I think we’re talking about three different things:

    1. Impeachment requires a majority in the House. That’s all.

    2. Removal from office *after* impeachment requires a 2/3 vote in the Senate. There may be 34 votes against removal of Bush, or Cheney, or Gonzales, or Rove, or anyone, but that didn’t stop Republicans from foisting impeachment on Clinton, Democrats, and the rest of us.

    3. Pursuing impeachment as a political tool instead of *only* with an eye towards removing Bush Administration people from office. This is trickier: would you advocate pursuing impeachment even if you didn’t have the votes? I think there are two main schools of thought on this, and it’s sort of a chicken-and-egg thing with impeachment and political accountability; I happen to think that impeachment has the potential to lead to more political accountability *because* it shows that Democrats are using their political power and that’s ultimately the only thing Bush respects: people who can, and do, confront and thwart him – everyone else can shut up and get out of his way.

  • I think Gonzales should be impeached. However, it is worth remembering that the reason that Gonzales should be impeached is that BushCo fights dirty. If impeachment is put on the table you can be sure that they will defend against it by fighting dirty. The result may turn out to be a quagmire which runs until Junior pulls down the shades at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. That will serve no purpose and might end up rallying a wingnut insurgency. Consequently, if we are to impeach Gonzales we must think the entire process through, which means, in part, lining up votes in the Senate to convict even before impeachment begins in the House. We want to do this smart.

  • I think if the Democrats in the House impeached Gonzales, there’s a really decent chance the Senate would remove him from office–or at least, that the Republicans in the upper house would agree to save Abu G only by pushing the Idiot King toward sanity on Iraq or other issues.

    My strong impression is that the congressional Republicans are sick to death of the Duhciderer, and wouldn’t mind sticking it to him in some respect. They’re scared he’ll drag them down again next year, and they grasp that loyalty runs one way. Those who have any sense of pride or fealty to the Constitution rather than simply to Team Republican–probably a minority of their caucus at this late point, but still maybe close to a hundred in the House and 20-25 in the Senate–are probably more than a little pissed off at having been lied to and talked down to for so long. And they’re embarrassed to be called on to defend a crooked hack like Abu.

    The Democrats really are too timid on this one. If they keep the pressure on, something will break loose. Absolutely the House should impeach Gonzales.

  • One of the benefits of impeaching and trying Gonzales would be that it would allow the Congress to collect additional evidence regarding the illegal wiretap activities put in place by Bush/Cheney, which can then be used in a potential impeachment of one or both of them.

    I also wonder if Abu G would talk if in fact faced with impeachment.

  • rege # 11: That will serve no purpose and might end up rallying a wingnut insurgency.

    Bring ’em on. I say do it anyway. Marginalize the wingnuts by exposing them as those who fighting for a liar like Gonzales.

  • It’s possible that Gonzales isn’t lying — but it only leaves one option.

    Not necessarily. See my own excellent post about that today:

    Comey’s testimony is that there was a NSA wiretapping program in place before March 2004 that the Justice Department came to feel was illegal. As a result of the hospital-bed events of March 10 2004, the Justice Department was eventually authorized by the President to revise the program, to bring it into compliance with the law. These changes were made, resulting in what the Justice Department regarded as a legal wiretapping program.

    You don’t have to be a graduate of the George Bush School of Deliberate Miscommunication to realize what Gonzales plans to shelter behind:

    Comey’s and Ashcroft’s objections were to the earlier program, the one they viewed as illegal.

    Gonzales’ February 2006 testimony was about the then-existing program, the revised one that Comey and Ashcroft had no objections to.

    Tim Grieve made the same point later this morning.

  • Exactly, Ohioan. Place those on record (GOP congressfolk and their pundit/wignut enablers) as supporting unlawful and improper conduct and this administration’s incompetence. Make the record clear, not just for the sake of saving our county’s soul, and not even for pure electoral purposes, but so that when one of them tries to slam some Dem for some made-up or minor indiscretion his or her record can be thrust in his or her face time and time again.

  • Keep the powder dry!!!!

    There are so many concurrent scandals of serious substance and consequence to **all Americans** that the Dems have to proceed gingerly rather than flying headlong with reckless abandon into using the **political** tool of impeachment. There are so many of the Bush wrigglers in the skillet right now that if the public gets focused on one scandal, it might be difficult to re-focus on something that might be of less import to the average Joe, but may yield a bigger Bush wriggler.

  • How can the Dems be so out of touch. The sour tast in our mouths about Clinton impeachment is that it was over a blow job, even though it was for lying to a Grand Jury it was ‘because’ of a blow job and most people liked Clinton and just thought what a shame. We damn sure know the difference between that and the high crimes and misdemeanors committed by the present administration. Never was there a time when Impeachment was more justified than today where corruption and treason is around every corner. If impeachment began more info would surface quickly because fear of retribution would be out the window. Until then people are more concerned about covering their own asses and keeping their jobs. Start Impeachment proceedings and watch a nation stand up against all of the corruption and lies we’ve endured the past 6yrs. Without Impeachment the country will remain divided, frustrated and intimidated. It’s the only way America and the world can get real justice and closure.

  • I understand the impatience with hearings and the logic of using impeachment trials to make a case for accountability, but it is a very political process, rather than a rational one. People will become sympathetic to the underdog; there will be some retribution against the Democrats if it devolves into a unsuccessful Starr-type fishing expedition; and it will end up being a nitpicking splitting of legal hairs.

    Thus, I don’t think one should begin impeach proceedings until it’s very nearly a foregone conclusion. Holding a trial and having the offender wriggle off the hook on the basis of either some technicalities or raw political support risks convincing people that the offender did nothing wrong and that all complaints are political and unprincipled, while setting a newer and much lower bar for acceptable bad behavior. Premature impeachment is a bit like shooting before aiming properly in a duel: understandable, but potentially lethally counterproductive.

    I think the hearings are working well enough. Washington opinions rarely change at the logical moment such as during a hearing, but tend to change in response to either a) tipping points that more often than not are completely inane, or b) as aresult of the previous round of scandals and hearings rather than the current round. (This is a direct consequence of the habit of politicians to forgive errors and to circle the wagons in defense colleagues in their own party.) However, the hearings that everyone but Lieberman seem to be doing a good job with create a slow and steady erosion of the administration. Each one has opened up new outrages, so the next round of hearings starts off from a more anti-Bush starting point than the previous one. The republicans find it harder and harder to defend the administration and its lackeys, so they are increasingly just going through reflexive motions. I think for the moment, elected Dems should just keep holding hearings to wear away at the Republicans, and keep insisting that they aren’t out to “get” Bush. That way, if and when a tipping point is reached, everyone can act saddened, and can say, “Until now, I never thought impeachment was necessary, but this is just too far beyond acceptable.”

  • The Washington post is reporting that the number of Federal prosecutors considered for firing was more than eight. Twenty-six is the new number, apparently discovered on a list compiled by Kyle Sampson. According to the Post, that’s more than 25% of those serving. Gonzales has a truth problem.

    And I’m still waiting for someone to ask — as asked here yesterday — WHO sent Card and Gonzales to Ashcroft’s hospital room.

  • If impeachment is put on the table you can be sure that they will defend against it by fighting dirty. The result may turn out to be a quagmire which runs until Junior pulls down the shades at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. That will serve no purpose and might end up rallying a wingnut insurgency.

    I disagree. At the very least it would stop Putsch from demandering some more tax giveaways to the rich, decidering to try and gut Social Security and Medicaid/Medicare again, and expose some of the Republican’ts illegal and immoral actions since they stole the White House in 2000.

  • Alibubba–today one of the reporters tried to ask Bush himself if he called and gave the order. Bush avoided it and refused to answer.

    “That way, if and when a tipping point is reached…” I would respectfully argue that that point is upon us. Serious violations of our Constitutional laws have occurred, admittedly at this point, violations which go against all of our basic rights as citizens as provided by the Constitution. Throw on top of that the attempts by the administration to make the DOJ an enforcement arm of the RNC. Then on top of that pile the lies and misdeeds that brought us the Iraq War, a war that continues to result in the needless deaths of our own citizen soldiers and the deaths of Iraqis. A new tipping point is reached each and every time a new US GI is killed in Iraq.

  • Impeach Abu. That will put the focus on the illegal wiretapping project that we want to stop anyway. It will fire a shot across the Administration’s bow. If we try for Bush, we will get Cheney as Pres., which would be worse. If we try to impeach all three, it will look like a circus and come across as political gridlock, something else the public hates. We can hog-tie Bush and Cheney just by impeaching Abu and the public will support it when the facts come out. Mission accomplished!

  • If the media had functioned properly, i.e., objectively, a lot of the Bush disasters wouldn’t have happened or been so bad.

    Which brings us to the question of who controls the media. IMO, the major media is owned and controlled by people who’s primary loyalty is to Israel, not to the United States. They saw Bush as doing Israel’s bidding and gave them their unwavering support, even until now, when the wheels have obviously fallen off the wagon. All the questions have been asked by outsiders…bloggers and honorable people like the McClatchy Group of papers.

    Congress needs to require that the media is not controlled by any one religion, political party, or powerful interest group, including foreign countries like Israel.

    BTW, how many Jews are in Iraq?

  • We also need to discuss this “dual-citizenship” jive. What’s that all about?

  • Cowards.
    Impeachment of criminals isn’t vengeful and faith in justice should overcome fear of public opinion.

    Because the Republicans abused a law enforcement tool, we aren’t to use it legitimately ever again?

    The allegations that the Democrats run from a fight have seeds of truth, but they aren’t planted in Iraq.

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