It’s one thing to connect Obama to RFK, but…

And the moral of the story is, be very careful when talking about presidential campaigns, Barack Obama, and the prospect of assassination.

Last Friday, Mike Huckabee tried to tell an off-the-cuff joke about someone pointing a gun at Barack Obama. It was a tasteless, foolish thing to say; Huckabee apologized; and the political world moved on.

Yesterday, as you probably know by now, talking about the duration of the Democratic nominating fight, Hillary Clinton referenced Bobby Kennedy’s assassination in June 1968.

The pushback began rather quickly. As the NYT reported, “Campaign aides were taken aback by the quick reaction to her remarks, but then quickly realized that Mrs. Clinton had to backpedal. She then spoke to the traveling press corps for the first time in more than a week, at a supermarket” in Brandon, S.D.

The story, surprisingly enough, is literally front-page news, and seems to have thrown the political world for a loop. I’m just not sure if it’s even remotely fair.

As I see it, there are three possible interpretations to consider:

* The charitable interpretation: This has been blown wildly out of proportion. Clinton was talking about the calendar, and the fact that there’s no real urgency for to withdraw, given that previous Democratic campaigns have lasted through June, as well. It may have been clumsily worded, but this was a harmless, innocent historical comparison. She made a similar reference to Kennedy a couple of months ago, and no one said a word. This is “molehill” politics to the extreme.

* The uncharitable interpretation: By raising the specter of Kennedy’s assassination, Clinton was implicitly making an incredibly offensive assertion — she needs to keep her campaign going, just in case some lunatic kills Obama. When she tried to backpedal, she said, “The Kennedys have been much on my mind the last days because of Senator Kennedy,” but that doesn’t make sense given that she’s made this RFK reference before.

* The very uncharitable interpretation: Clinton, generally a master of message discipline and subtlety, was slyly trying to introduce the notion of Obama and assassination into the broader political discussion. In other words, this was intentional — she’d knew people would freak out, but took a chance anyway, hoping the possibility of something tragic happening to Obama might raise doubts among superdelegates.

For what it’s worth, I’m inclined towards the charitable interpretation. The clip and the context make clear, at least to me, that Clinton was making a point about June. By referencing the Kennedy slaying, she was reminding people of when that happened.

If, in context, she’s been asked about plausible scenarios in which she could still win the nomination, and then referenced the Kennedy assassination, I’d be the first to express outrage. But that’s not what happened here. It was about a timeline, nothing more.

To be sure, Clinton could have worded this much better. In some ways, the reaction reminds me a lot of some of the overheated responses to some of Obama’s verbal gaffes (“bitter,” “typical white person”). These candidates speak thousands of words a day, and sometimes, their thoughts are less articulate than others. But it’s neither fair nor helpful to the process to create a scandal out of every misspoken historical analogy.

That said, the reaction has become so heated, I’ve heard considerable talk that Clinton’s chances of making the Obama ticket are much lower now than they were 24 hours ago.

Post Script: Want to know how dumb I am? The Kennedy part of Clinton’s quote wasn’t even the part that bothered me most. First she argued that “people have been trying” to push her out of the race “ever since Iowa.” Really? Who are these people? I don’t remember anyone, anywhere, arguing that Clinton needed to drop out in early January. It seemed like a strangely self-pitying comment.

For that matter, she characterized “her opponent” of trying to force her to withdraw. Again, as far as I can tell, neither Obama nor any of his top aides have done anything of the sort, at least not in recent weeks. In fact, since the North Carolina and Indiana primaries, it seems like Obama has been doing the opposite — saying very complimentary things about Clinton, and then ignoring her to focus on John McCain.

And as for the on-point discussion of previous campaigns going through June, Clinton’s point about 1968 is flawed, because the party had not yet adopted the modern nominating process 40 years ago. Similarly, Clinton’s point about her husband not wrapping up the nomination until June 1992 is also highly misleading.

Of course, in light of the assassination talk, these details will get no attention whatsoever.

Second Post Script: Given a choice between yesterday’s remarks and her speech in Florida this week comparing the Democratic delegate controversy to Jim Crow and Zimbabwe, I still think the latter was far more outrageous.

You’re not dumb. I agree with the second postscript, too…

She said the exact same thing before. But post-Zimbabwe and all the other crud coming out of her mouth, it may be that more people than just Olbermann are looking to overreact a bit. I know I’ve got Hillary fatigue.

  • Actually, the implication I got from it was that she was trying to tell one of her zombie followers what to do. That’s the uncharitable depiction in my opinion. She’s cold, heartless and now a possible murder inciter. She is beyond despicable and I cannot bear the very thought of someone like this in the white house and I’m a woman who used to be an avid supporter. She has gone too far. I wonder if Barack is murdered if she think after this comment African Americans would just let it slide if something happened to Barack? Maybe she wouldn’t have a shot at it either and it would be John Edwards that ends up with the nomination.

  • The point I think counts most is made in the “very uncharitable” category; “…a master of message discipline…” clearly wouldn’t be dumb enough to make such a comment merely off the cuff, and this being a topic broached by her prior to Ted’s diagnosis discounts her excuse as extremely lame, at best. Add to this the prior comments about his being “less presidential than Mc(ForrestalFire)Cain,” about his not being “electable enough” due to those “lunch-bucket-whitey-type folks”—and all I’m seeing is a continuation of the scorched-earth “kitchen sink” strategy.

    I mean, c’mon—if I were to start blathering on about the black guy who was assassinated in 1968—and the white guy who was assassinated in 1968—and then noted how there seems to be a really big lack of “white presidential-candidate former first ladies who’ve been cheated on by their husbands and underwent imaginary sniper fire” who were assassinated in 1968—how far do you think I’d get with it?

    She’s pulling a classic Karl Rove maneuver here; pushing the envelope to see what she can get away with, because the ends justify the means—whatever those means may be, and all that that implies. It’s time to take the envelope away from her….

  • I think Hils can forget a career on lecturing how to influence people and win friends.

    Hils set of a reaction that seems to stem from a lot of folks fears (and in many cases rightfully so.) Obama is the insurgent candidate and not the “chosen” one as judged by the eelights and MSM (that was Hils for those who have forgotten.) Also considering what has happened in the past 8 years in US politics, there is a sense that anything is possible especially as the eelights are loathe to give up power or the gains (made at everyone else’s expense) which would probably be rolled back under an Obama Admin.

    There was an article from Dallas (of all places) that Obama’s security wasn’t as tight as it could be and the reaction was swift and fierce.

  • The strong reactions to her comments are completely justified. It’s too bad that her glib suggestion that America could “obliterate” a nation of 70 million people was barely noticed…

  • I think it is pretty obvious that she was just trying to make a point about June and chose an unfortunate historical example.

  • “It’s 3 a.m. in the morning and the first black president has inevitably been slain. Now don’t you wish you had voted for Hillary?”

    that’s the message i get out of the garbage disposal of clinton’s kitchen sink.

  • I thought the reaction to this was way over the top. The first time I heard the quote I was struck more by the inaccuracy, ahistorical-ness, and self-centeredness of the sentiment. It never occurred to me that it would be seen as offensive. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I was 3 when RFK and MLK was shot. I don’t know.

    But then Hillary turned Obama’s “bitter” comments, which were off-the-record and surreptitiously recorded into not only a bludgeon to hit him with but the impetus to redefine herself as a blue collar, shot swilling millionaire. Her comments were to reporters with cameras, so they are more than fair game for parsing and offense. In that sense it would have been unfair not to express moral outrage at her comments. What’s good for the goose, etc etc.

    On the other hand I fear these sorts of tempest-in-teapots “controversies” will encourage more and more politicians to adopt the George Bush approach and only talk to friendly crowds tractable reporters for fear of saying the wrong thing or having even the right thing taken out of context and used against them a la Kerry’s “Global Test” incident in 2004.

  • My general perceptions, for what little they may be worth –

    Leaving aside every other issue as regards general integrity, who says what and how stupid it is, who can get which segment of voters, etc, etc, there seems to me to be one very clear difference between Senator Clinton and Senator Obama — when Clinton loses supporters, she cannot replace them. She has no capacity for winning over people who do not like her, and even less ability to win back people who once supported her but have changed their minds. And a significant number of one time Clinton supporters seem to have changed their minds over the course of this campaign, a trend that is, if anything, accelerating as we get further towards November.

    Senator Obama, on the other hand, seems to have a genuine talent for persuading not only uncommitted voters into his camp, but even for swaying diehard partisans of his opponents towards his standard. And once someone decides to support Obama, they seem to stick with it. Clinton’s campaign is hemorrhaging staff, delegates, and supporters; Obama’s is steadily gaining ground.

    To boil it down — Senator Clinton cannot change the minds of the people who loathe her, and they are legion. Beyond that, many of the people who once loved her now regard her with distaste, and she alienates more and more of those people every day. Senator Obama is just the opposite; I honestly believe, given what I’ve seen, that if he has enough time to do it, he could even bring around Appalachia. He’s really that charismatic… as charismatic, in fact, as Bill Clinton.

    Which may be another reason Senator Clinton cannot stand the thought of being beaten by him…

  • I totally agree with your postscripts, however I think there is more to her remarks regarding Bobby Kennedy. I think she was not just referring to a timeline, but that anything could happen in the next few months to knock Obama out of the nomination. Of course, she’s hoping for something like a Reverend Wright fiasco, not the assassination of the senator.

    I watched Keith Olbermann last night and felt he was harsh, but some of his comment really rang true. I believe she should stay in until the last primary and I even think they should try to reconcile Florida and Michigan. HOWEVER, it should not go beyond June!!!! I’m not sure Michigan can be reconciled since Senator Obama’s name wasn’t on the ballot. I posted before that this argument she’s thrown in about disenfranchisement is seems false. She could have helped me and other voters if the she had seen this as a civil rights issue BEFORE the primary.

    I don’t like how she has changed positions on the Democratic Party Rules. As a resident of Michigan, I certainly am embarrassed she would try to compare our situation to Jim Crow or Zimbabwe.

    She is going to get herself (if she hasn’t already) into the position of looking pathetic. She’s like the kid (or adult for that matter) who can’t stand losing, so they come up with excuses or rule changes. As a matter of fact, it’s rather diminishing to the future women who will run for this office. She setting a rather low bar for classy behavior in a campaign.

  • I’m inclined to a semi-charitable explanation: This supposedly seasoned, wise leader didn’t even get why this was a monumentally out-of-bounds thing to say, and still doesn’t fully get it, although what John Cole correctly characterized as the fear in her eyes in the supermarket non-apology shows that it’s started to dawn on her that other people have a significant problem with it. She did have several other examples available to her of drawn-out nominating processes–1984, 1980, the Republicans in 1976, even Roosevelt.

    But she chose RFK, apparently because his assassination’s been on her mind for months now. Why? I’m not going to assign an evil intent to that; I just wonder what kind of person even carries that around popping in and out of her subconsciousness. Something’s wrong there.

    Couple that lack of comprehension about the offensiveness of her statement with her refusal to truly apologize for it (those “if anyone was offended” non-apologies bug me as much as they bug the rest of America, and it’s another indication of her tin ear that she doesn’t realize the time when anyone could get away with those fake apologies is long past), and it’s just more evidence that her judgment can be exceptionally poor.

    And this is very small potatoes indeed compared to her RFK gaffe, but I’m also sick of hearing her repeat the story that Bill Clinton didn’t get the nomination until June 1992. Bill Clinton didn’t officially go over the top because the California primary was late that year, but his campaign was loudly claiming victory in April–far more loudly than anyone on Obama’s fairly-low-key-in-victory campaign has done, as it walks on eggshells even now to avoid setting off Clinton’s more prone-to-rage supporters. One more piece of giant campaign hypocrisy from the Clintons.

  • Anytime I hear about something not being “fair” I see a whiny teenager becoming petulant after not getting his/her way. There’s nothing “fair” about politics, and to have such expectations excludes one immediately from any realistic discussion of the game.

    I would like to accept the charitable interpretation, but I’m having a problem. Her kitchen-sink strategy has led her into such minefields of racism and desperation that either she has completely taken leave of her senses (poor judgment and blindness to reality due to fatigue), or she is plumbing ever lower depths in hopes of shocking everyone into seeing the world her way.

    No matter what she says about it now, or how apologetic she is, she can’t take it back. Nor will possible harm to Obama be erased from the public consciousness. Just as she injected more racism into this campaign than was obviously, but implicitly, already there, now she has injected the assassination boogey man. It too has been on many minds, including mine, but to use it in this way is morally indefensible.

    Political campaigns are frequently immoral, only more subtle in their approach. Nixon’s southern strategy; Reagans state’s rights code are good examples. Willy Horton was the sledgehammer approach. Was HRC’s slip of the tongue, if it was, the equivalent? I can believe it, even if I would rather not.

    This is a little like a judge instructing a jury to disregard certain inappropriate remarks at a trial: it can’t be done.

  • “Obama spokesman Bill Burton said Clinton’s comment was ‘unfortunate’ and ‘has no place in this campaign.'” This comment showed Burton’s lack of integrity.

    It was scurrilous for Burton to pervert the comment into a meaning that clearly was never intended by Sen. Clinton. It was vile demagoguery for Burton to seek to inflame people’s passion against Sen. Clinton with a malicious attack and misrepresentation on her.

    The twisted, perverse distortion and misrepresentation of Sen. Clinton’s comments only reflect the lack of integrity that characterizes Obama supporters. Just like the candidate himself, Obama cultists are ruthless and despicable in continued attacks on Sen. Clinton.

    The pro-Obama biased media and Obama surrogates have been on an unrelenting attack on Sen. Clinton to withdraw, sabotaging her presidential campaign with impunity. Obama has made devious, slick and sly assertions that did not distance him from his attacking surrogates. The pro-Obama media have interfered in, undermined, and subverted the Democratic nomination process to the detriment of Sen. Clinton’s campaign. This media tyranny is our democracy’s worse enemy.

  • Yesterday was the day that CNN had the story about Hillary’s camp putting pressure on the Obama camp to give her the VP nomination. Yesterday was also the day that she made the dumb reference to Bobby Kennedy.

    It has been on my mind that Obama is the kind of candidate who scares the crazies in America. Bobby Kennedy and MLK were those kind of people too. I think it’s reasonable to assume that the same thought has occurred to Hillary. She obviously wants to be president above all else. So since the nomination seems lost, is there another way?

    Perhaps. Be there if the “unthinkable” happens. Because she’s thought about it.

    Hence the Freudian slip.

  • I am “inclined” to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt and I am an Obama supporter. Never-the-less, I am troubled by the fact she made this comment only a week after Huckabee put the whole assassination thing into the arena with his stupid attempt at humor. Surely Hillary was smart enough to have figured out after Huckabee’s gaffe that you ‘just don’t go there’ when it comes to making any reference to assassinations during a presidential campaign. So it bothers me and leaves me thinking a) She is not as smart and savvy as I thought she was. or b) She deliberately raised the “assassination” theme again, to suggest Obama is another ‘high risk’ candidate, like RFK.
    Personally as I said from the outset I will give her the benefit of the doubt, that there was no sinister motive, but she is starting to skate on very thin ice.

  • I think it is pretty obvious that she was just trying to make a point about June and chose an unfortunate historical example. J.Bogart

    Sounds like a ripe old excuse to me.

    Reminding people about assassinated Presidential candidates when you losing? One who has been occasionally compared to your oponent?

    I just can’t accept this. I think CB is still inclined to defend Hillary, despite his post early this week indicating he was done.

    As is indicated in the article, it has been brought up once before. Once is a faux paus. Twice is deliberate. She’s purposefully getting this message out there, and it blew up in her face.

    What a dispicable monster she is.

    I’m tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt. How many times can they slip up and still be called ‘masters of message discipline?’

    Two choices for me:

    1. She’s doing it on purpose.
    2. She’s too stupid to realize she shouldn’t be takling about assassinated Presidential candidates while she and her colleague are running for President.

    Either way, it’s just more proof she’s absolutely unqualified to lead this country. She can’t even lead her mouth.

  • Steve, I reacted negatively immediately when I read the first reports. Throughout the evening, I kept tabs via the Internets and the news shows, read the transcript and saw the video many times. At one point I realized that I was being swept up in the remarks, not in the details about policy. I did search for the charitable option because in the final analysis I could not possibly be inside Hillary’s head to know for sure why she said what she said. This morning I’ve noticed a few sites not really mentioning it or posting about it, so I’m glad you’ve done so.

    For the longest time I’ve tried to refrain from bashing Hillary. I was an Edwards guy but he dropped out before the Illinois primary, so Obama got my vote, and over time I’ve been very impressed with Obama’s poise, so I’m a very big supporter. Yet the race wasn’t “over”, I needed to not mentally reject Hillary because I might be voting for her. But Olbermann was right, this is too much.

    I cannot land on the charitable interpretation, I have no more good will in the well. I’m with Chris at comment #2. Keith Olbermann’s special comment on it last night also expressed (floridly, I might add) the inevitable conclusion I’ve come to: she is off the rails. There’s a problem with her head now. She is concocting daydreams and scenarios, and they’re coming out into public.

    Her fear-based remarks about race, about fitness for office, about electability, etc., have only inflamed people, they haven’t produced anything good. She sounds like BushCo now. People don’t like that.

    The contrast between the thoughtfulness, intelligence and hopefulness of the Obama campaign, and the fear-mongering desperation of the Clinton campaign cannot be clearer. She needs to get off the stage, and right now.

  • CB, your generous interpretation of Hillary’s motive for her remark would make more sense to me if she hadn’t said time and time again that she was staying in the race because you “never know what will happen”. People generally concluded when she said that that she meant some terrible scandal about Obama might break or he would say or do something that would wreck his campaign and he’d lose the nomination. That’s what I thought, too.

    Well, no doubt she and her camp thought that as well, but it’s pretty clear that SHE had another much more devastating scenario in mind, and that was assassination of her opponent. Since she’s mentioned it so many times before and apparently received no reaction, I suppose she thought there would be no reaction this time. Well, the truth is that I, at least, didn’t KNOW she’d referred to “something terrible” happening in June in earlier statements until yesterday.

    I think it’s pretty clear that she was “listing” her justifications for staying in the race, some benign, but also including a possible assassination of her opponent.

    To state for public consumption that that’s ONE reason to stay in the race until June is to titillate memories of horror among those of us who lived through the trauma of RFK’s assassination, not long after JFK’s and MLK’s. And in some of us, it produces a memory of fears of unseen destructive forces that would murder those who might bring us out of darkness.

    For her to almost glibly cite a possible assassination of her opponent as a reason for HER to stay in the race is beyond despicable. As others have said, it’s also extremely dangerous. She has already made subtle appeals to racists to vote for her, to women disappointed at their lot in life to vote for her. This almost seems like an appeal for understanding because somebody might be assassinated, like her opponent, and she needs to stay in the race for that reason because then she’d have a real shot at the nomination.

    I’m one who puts the very uncharitable interpretation on her remarks. It isn’t because of this recent remark alone though. It’s the pattern of doing everything she can think of, no matter how low, without conscience, to win the nomination.

  • Once again, Steve, you are giving her way too much credit. Hillary has deliberately ratcheted up her rhetoric, going over-the-top all week long. This time, she took it to the Forbidden Zone. “Overreaction” my ass. I hope the media (and the superdelegates) crucify her for it. (Metaphorically speaking.)

  • It was scurrilous for Burton to pervert the comment into a meaning that clearly was never intended by Sen. Clinton.

    That you consider Burton’s rather mild statement a scurrilous attack demonstrates with sharp clarity that you have lost perspective. I will just request that you to think for a second about what a real Republican style attack on Clinton’s statement by Obama’s people would have looked like and then hopefully come to a realization of just how restrained Burton really is being here. If you really see this as a vicious attack then the fact is that your not ready to participate in politics with the grown ups just yet. I can guarantee you that HRC herself knows that Obama could have very easily come after her a lot harder on this even if you don’t.

  • Hillary ran a campaign that lived by the sword and now should die by the sword. After running with Obama’s “bitter” comments and repeatedly saying her attacks on Obama were nothing compared to that of the Republican smear machine, it is completely laughable for any of Hillary’s supporters (#14, for example) to say she’s getting an unfair shake now that’s screwed up, this time worse than any other gaffe she’s committed. Maybe she didn’t mean it, but Hillary now deserves everything that’s coming to her. And if she can’t handle it, then she and her supporters have no one to blame. It is merely the same standards they have tried to impose on Obama.

  • I agree fully with your second post-script, and I’m sure that she was referencing June, “as far as I know”, but I’m sufficiently content to let her hang unfairly on this, because her kitchen sink strategy, her “as far as I know” behavior, and her both-sides-of-the-borderline coded appeals to racist voters give her no grounds for appealing for a charitable interpretation.

    Moreover, as some people remarked yesterday, the June standard she is trying to invoke is inappropriate because in earlier years the campaign didn’t get going until much later. Worse, late endings are undesirable, because consider the results from the prolonged divisiveness in 1968, and again in 1980 when Edward Kennedy held out as long as he could against Jimmy Carter (and lots of people called for him to quit). In both cases, the nominee and the party were unable to pull back together in time for the general election, resulting in two terms each for Nixon and Reagan. (In fairness, Bill Clinton’s lateness in securing the nomination was not such a problem.)

    I have been progressively disappointed with her votes on Kyl-Lieberman, her cosying up to Scaife, her positive statements preferring McCain over Obama, her ever-changing rationales and goalposts, her Bush-like habits of excessive rule-changing and boundary pushing, and her first opposing the Florida and Michigan elections when that position served her interests with Iowa and New Hampshire, and then flip-flopping to call for counting the Florida and Michigan votes. I’ve certainly started with lower expectations for many Republicans and even some democrats, but I can’t recall ever becoming as disappointed in a politician.

    I detest her unprincipled hypocrisy in falsely elevating Florida and Michigan to the civil rights struggle and suffrage, supposedly involving fundamental principles of democracy and having every vote count, when this is merely a political expediency for her, while she is blowing off caucus states, red states, small states, and whatever other voters didn’t suit her purposes. The final straw for me was the suggestion by some of her staff that “uncommitted” delegates in Michigan, which were understood to be anti-Clinton and pro-Obama votes, should remain uncommitted rather than going to Obama. I’m sure they consider this to be staking out an extreme position simply so they can negotiate to a compromise that is more favorable to them, but to me it signifies that she is as unscrupulous as Bush. I no longer want to see her as a cabinet secretary of anything, Supreme Court Justice, or anything else with power. (However, if keeping her and McCain out of the White House requires giving her the vice presidency, I’d consider making that deal and then trying to make her vice-presidency into the political equivalent of a nuclear waste container, and the White House into Fort Knox.)

  • This comment popped out of la Clinton’s mouth – like the toads that appeared whenever the self-centered fairy tale princess opened her mouth – as part of a response to why she should stay in a nomination race she has clearly lost. In all the BS over “popular vote” do any Clintonistas ever think about the fairness of declaring victory over an opponent who never had a chance to compete under their version of the rules?

    If they had been competing for the popular vote Obama would have run a different campaign – maybe he would have won, or maybe not – we’ll never know because he was running a campaign according to the actual rules, and he won! Princess Toad Mouth will never change that reality, no matter how many toads she utters between now and the end of time. Unfortunately for her, the only Prince who’s likely to want to kiss her is Bill (and how likely is that?) – I doubt that his kiss will heal her affliction.

  • On top of these other ramifications, what kind of a giant ass brings up assassinated family members just days after another gets a likely death sentence?

    Oh, you have a deadly brain tumor Ted? Hey, do you remember that time your brother got shot and killed? Good times. It was in June, so I should totally keep running for President. Never know what’ll happen right? I bet you didn’t think both of your brothers would get shot? No one ever, wink wink, expects it.

    The only person Hillary Clinton gives a damn about at this point is Hillary Clinton.

  • As I have heard mentioned on TV, the real threat of assassination is no longer in the whispering level. Hillary may have served a good if unintentional means of bringing it to national attention.

    People are talking about “crazies”. But, there is still a very real threat that terrorists could attempt to disrupt our democratic process by whatever means. And a few secret service agents would probably offer little protection to a well organized group or even a single terrorist acting with fanatical determination.

    There are a lot of similarities between now and 1968. The democratic party is divided with one politician providing hope to many young people. A sense of mounting crises is developing. A long war continues with the possibility of several more years should the Republican be elected president.

  • One point about the Olberman special comment: by itself it might seem inartful, but taken with all of the other crap she’s said (and who she has said it to), she only has herself to blame for the sh!tstorm that is flying.

  • My problem with Hillary is her total lack of awareness as to the incendiary nature of the word assassination. She could have used other examples to illustrate her continuing her campaign through June. Instead, she used the word “assassination” as one of her examples.

    It is her lack of awareness and her poor judgement in the use of the word that bothers me. It is almost as if she is unaware of the deep feelings among Obama’s supporters, both black and white, who are fearful that something bad might happen to Obama. And for her to then use the word as one of the reasons for staying in the race, shows an insensitivity which, to me, is beyond the pale.

  • Another issue is that she lied about why she said it if I read correctly that she said Kennedy was on her mind as she said it in March too and Kennedy was healthy then. She’s imploding and we’re just along for the ride.

  • My vote is for ‘minor slip-up’. Of course at this point that’s the last thing Hillary needs.

  • I agree with Maria. It’s the non-apology that makes Clinton look the worst.

    “If my referencing that moment of national trauma for our entire nation and in particular for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive, I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever. My view is that we have to look to the past, and to our leaders who have inspired us give us a lot to give up to, and I’m honored to hold Sen. Kennedy’s seat in the United States Senate from the state of New York and have the highest regard for the entire Kennedy family.

    If my referencing….”

    If?IF?but she lost. She needs to go away quietly. NOW.

  • I pointed this out “downstairs” – for shillary to bring this up after all the attention hucklebee got for joking about pointing a gun.

    SHE KNEW WHAT SHE WAS DOING!

    She has shown America who she is and what she stands for – THE MAJORITY DOES NOT SUPPORT HER

    NO bush-clinton-bush-clinton monarchy!

  • Re: my comment in #31, I don’t know what happened — the preview looked okay. So I’ll try again. Sorry.

    * * * *

    I agree with Maria. It’s the non-apology that makes Clinton look the worst.

    “If my referencing that moment of national trauma for our entire nation and in particular for the Kennedy family was in any way offensive, I certainly had no intention of that whatsoever. My view is that we have to look to the past, and to our leaders who have inspired us give us a lot to give up to, and I’m honored to hold Sen. Kennedy’s seat in the United States Senate from the state of New York and have the highest regard for the entire Kennedy family.

    If my referencing….”

    If?

    IF?

    This isn’t about her awkwardly worded statement. This certainly isn’t about whether she pees sitting down or standing up.

    This is about her almost Bush-like sense of her own certainty in the face of contradictory facts and her belief in her divinely-mandated entitlement to rule over the country. I’ve watched over the last two days as her campaign maneuvers to enable her to take her nomination fight all the way to the convention — in spite of the likelihood that such a fight would result in a win for McCain — and I have lost the ability to give Clinton the benefit of the doubt.

    The people in the party have decided. She lost a close battle by one point, but she lost. She needs to go away quietly. NOW.

  • She’s pulling a classic Karl Rove maneuver here

    Surprised? Her campaign directly relies on kkkarl’s and rush’s his propaganda and support too.

    Extremely dishonest person – maybe “vast right wing conspiracy” was right about the clintons.

    Of course, now the “vast right wing conspiracy” is supporting them – further evidence that they were right when they called the clintons out on their dishonesty?

  • I think it is pretty obvious that she was just trying to make a point about June and chose an unfortunate historical example.

    She makes many unfortunate remarks – many cited in this thread. And you want to say, “oh, she’s not responsible for her stooooopidity because blah blah blah blah…”

    This is not an isolated instance – she has not business being the POTUS because America overwhelmingly wants change, not someone that cannot control the diarrhea from their mouth.

  • $ 33 SteveT – note that this is the same type of “apology” that hucklebee gave – she takes no responsibility for her statement, does not acknowledge it was inappropriate, and is actually blaming those that took offense.

    Right out of the republican play book from just last week!

  • Has anyone here menioned the fact that Ted Kennedy endorsed Obama a while back?I think the Kennedys have been on her mind a LOT lately. If Ted and the Kennedy clan(including Caroline) had put their imprimatur on Hillary-she may have had more clout with superdems. I really do feel she has animosity toward the Kennedys -and to whip up the importance of white votes in KKK West Virginia and Kentuck,yes,I do believe there was a veiled sugestion to some of the Aryan nut jobs. I also believe this is why Obama didnt go to Kentucky or West Virginia. I contend there were credible threats on his sefety.

  • Her comments don’t sound spontaneous to me. Responses to the obvious questions of the day, like “Why are you staying in the race” have to get batted around with staff before the candidate gives interviews. If referencing the RFK’s assassination wasn’t flagged as problematic by someone in those conversations, there’s a serious lack of perspective in play.

  • what goes around, comes around! She has been purposefully twisting the truth since February and undermining Obama’s chances with her perverse logic and rascist dog-whistles. Even though this was probably a -relatively- innocent mistake, she herself contrived the situation where we attribute horrible motives to her campaign. Ugh!

  • It’s obvious that Hillary is trying to implant ideas in an unbalanced persons mind, as well as give herself some lame excuse for continuing. There is no way a person as calculating and ruthless as her should be asked to be vice-president and hopefully she has held her last elected office ever.
    She does give us all a reason for hope maybe the person who has the next better position in life to ours will have something bad happen so we can jump in and take over, immediately happy that we have hung out to be there when something went wrong.
    She has also given me a brand new business model; have an extra one of every employee, just in case they are run over by a car, murdered by a robber, killed in an earthquake, struck by lightning, well, you get the picture.
    She is now exploiting the politics of disaster because that is her last slim justification for being the absolutely tasteless, crass and clawing semblance of a human being that she is.
    Now that she has completely revealed her true identity like an evil super- villain it is time for the super delegates who have not committed to make their choice and end her desperate posturing once and for all.
    She has committed the foulest campaign game of any candidate in U.S. politics in my memory, publicly wishing that her opponent would die so that she can win. The most pathetic wish of all.

  • Well, they say be careful what you wish for—-or suggest———there are nut jobs aplenty who could take very personal offense at Hillary’s remark and God forbid,turn the tables on her.

  • Many good comments in this thread – but one of the most important aspects of this is missing:

    Shillary is just providing the propagnada talking points that the MSM catapults by creating an echo chamber

    Yes this statement is outragious on its face and has no place. NO DEM OR LIBERAL WOULD ACCEPT THIS STATEMENT FROM MCLAME.

    Even a senile old man knows better than to utter this – shillary does too – she went though 8 years of endless investigations and insinuations when bill was POTUS.

    She is now giving credibility to kkkarl and rush and allowing the MSM to endlessly repeat, usually unchallenged, the memes and framing that will be used to steal 2008.

    shillary has become part of the propaganda arm of the wing-nuts.

  • How many presidential primaries were still being held in June in 1968 & 1992 compared to 2008?
    I know we were voting in June up until this election year.

  • I know it something that none of us like to think or talk about, BUT, there are hundreds of WHITE SUPREMACIST groups in this country who must be outraged at the possibility of a bi-racial man as POTUS. All POTUS candidates put themselves at risk for “crazies” to target them. But we all know that Obama is at far greater risk than the average POTUS candidate and not just from people who need to be medicated. Obama had to have a security detail right after he announced—which means the death threats have likely been there since day one. She HAS to know this.

    Yes, Hillary is exhausted. Yes, it was most certainly a very stupid gaffe. But that is the thing about politics—when you make a mistake and say something that can be easily misconstrued to be REALLY OFFENSIVE you have to apologize for it effectively. She didn’t. It was incredibly insensitive for Hillary to go anywhere near this subject and she needs to realize what a mistake it was. She touched a nerve mentioning RFK’s assasination in regards to this race.

  • All this talk about a “nut-job” fails to recognize:

    (1) There is no good evidence that a “lone nut” killed JFK – even gerald ford admitted they arlen sphincter got the “single bullet theory” wrong. The entire warren commission report falls on that.

    (2) King family won a lawsuit because they were able to prove there was a conspiracy to murder MLK and that the government was involved. This also was not a lone nut.

    (3). The investigation into RFK assassination was a total coverup – sirhan sirhan could not have fired the fatal bullet. THIS WAS NOT A LONE NUT.

    The crap that shillary says is no designed to “catapult the propaganda” because if provides cover-up for the deliberate actions of others.

    Hey, crissa, mary, greg, mark stubby pencil – WHY DOES SHILLARY NOW ALIGN HERSELF WITH RUSH, KKKARL, AND THE “VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY?

  • shillary provides the cover up for the deliberate actions of others – in this case election fraud and whatever else the criminal cabal behind dur chimpfurher has in mind.

  • Clinton was the choice of about half of the Democratic Primary voters. Do you believe that they are just deluded or that they are as malevolent as their chosen candidate? Do you think that her supporters are now suddenly going to “see the light”?

  • Steve:
    Giving her the benefeit of the doubt has bit you in the ass before. Son you need to see the truth. Believe me I know how hard it is. They were literally heroes of mine but this campaign has opened up a whole new light on the darker “Politcal Animal” side that I find terribly unethical. I was around for the awful Reagan years. He was actually the first President I voted for at 18 (Grew up in a VERY Republican household so it was probably a given my first vote). I used to be pretty politicaly involved in debates and discussions with friends and always took the position of defendig Reagan….then Iran Contra, Shadow Govenment (See Bill Moyers Report on this for those who weren’ t around or too young to remember), and ABSOLUTE subversion of the Constitution (G.W. wasn’t the first). all inefensible in my mind. I remember the day Reagan came on Tevee and said “Well it seems we know more today than we did yesterday” when it finally came to light he did know about all of the bove mentioned and was totally involved…..I went and registered Democrat THAT day and have never looked back. I digress a bit but the point is it’s hard to give up on people you thought you respected. The reality stinks but it is the reality. TIme to stop looking back at the good old days and focus on the future. Maybetere was a time and a place for the Clinton style of politics but it is clear we are ready to transcend those days. I can’t believe I am sayingthis but I hope he doesn’t choose her for a runnning mate.
    P.S. How do you turn off the damn overtype

  • I’m a baby boomer and she really crossed a line here. I don’t think this is the first time she’s
    brought up assassination. We boomers have a horror of this kind of violence stealing our hope but it is bad form to suggest publicly that it could happen again. If we haven’t been working to make sure it never happens again, then what have we been doing all these years?

  • I was under the quaint notion that a leader INSPIRES,not conspires. That a leader looks forward and inspires to a higher,more hopeful future. I see Hillary as leading people back to the past-a Judas goat. This is not leadership.Be sure the leader you choose to follow,is taking you someplace worth going,and not the slaughterhouse.

  • I did not hear her apologize to the Obamas, only the Kennedys. So I don’t see this as an innocent gaffe at all.

  • I’m inclined to think she meant option number 1 but option number 2 was clearly in her head or she wouldn’t have used the word assassination. She should know better than casually talking about assassinated presidential candidates. It’s way out of bounds.

  • You may recall that the Kennedy family was split with some supporting Hillary (like RFK Jr.) and some supporting Obama (like Teddy). If nothing else, perhaps her remarks will unite the Kennedy family…against her.

  • The responses reflect Hillary’s fading, since Iowa, support and her futile attempts to hang on to this madness of a campaign which is only about her. Olberman is right! I should hang on because he may be killed.! IT IS TIME TO END THIS, I GUESS THE ONLY WAY IS FOR SUPER DELEGATES TO STEP UP . NOW!

  • I wonder if she could have referenced RFK at all. If she had said that RFK was still in the primaries in June, without mentioning the assassination I believe that people looking for the most evil motives would have remarked on the omission and called it a “dog whistle” since everyone KNOWS that he was assassinated, and that’s what she MEANT to call attention to.
    This looks to me like the Dean Scream all over again.

  • BOOMAN has a great analysis on this: http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/5/24/01948/5079

    Here’s a snippet, but please read the full thing:

    As it is, she has already ruined her chances of being on the ticket as vice-president and is rapidly losing her chance to be the second choice candidate, should something tragic happen. So, if we are judging things by how they help Clinton, she has not been too successful lately. But if we are judging things by how they hurt Obama, she has been all too successful.

  • FoxNews reports on Hillary’s Bad Day

    The steadily deteriorating mood on the Clinton campaign took a steeper dip than usual today in the wake of the candidate’s reference to the assassination of Bobby Kennedy.

    Her on camera response was flat, and at her second event she seemed to carry the weight of the press response to her remarks – and of the long, hard slog that the campaign has become.

    Reporters mobbed the lone Clinton spokesman sent back to deal with the fallout. His incredulous, frustrated response has become an increasingly common one among Clinton press staffers as their candidate’s chances wane; there are no more positive stories to respond to, merely negative ones to knock down – as well as the omnipresent question: when will she quit?

    After a laborious second rally in Brookings, where she was confronted on her brother’s arrest and her husband’s pardon scandal and seemed beaten down at times, one reporter played the song “You’ve Had a Bad Day” — used on American Idol to send off losing contenders — on his laptop as Clinton staffers boarded the press bus.

    And on the press plane from South Dakota to New York, a gaggle of reporters dished on the state of the campaign over rounds of beers, laughing and joking loudly about what they judged to be an awful response to her “assassination” remarks at an editorial board meeting in South Dakota – as the Senator herself sat just a dozen rows ahead.

    One friendly Clinton staffer came back to join what looked like a fun conversation, but turned back as the reporters kept up their Clinton bashing. Another walked back to use the bathroom, crossing through the gaggle as some reporters ridiculed the Senator for one thing after another. Neither party spoke to the other.

    The eroding relationship between the press and the campaign isn’t malicious; it’s more that the traveling press doesn’t feel the need to disguise disdain or second guessing. It knows a dying beast when it sees one.

  • For those last few hardcore Hillary supporters who say she’s only making an historic reference to the Primaries going until June, keep this in mind: The 1968 New Hampshire primary was held on March 12, 1968, fully 3 months later than the 2008 primary which was held on January 8, 2008. In 1992, the New Hampshire primary was on February 18, a full month and a half later than 1968. So the June argument is a straw man. Also, in 1968, on 13 states had primaries. For Hillary to compare then to now is apples and cumquats.

  • I don’t know if any here noticed how ashen Hillary looked in her mangled “mea culpa’.or how the pundits all had that shock and awe syndrome deer in the head lights look when reporing this. I do believe that finally,many are forced to see the revelation of this woman’s true mindset and pathological ambition. Where are ANY of her supporters defending her now? Why hasn’t Bill extended an olive branch to the American public in general,and the Kennedys and Obamas in particular-especially on Memorial Day weekend-lots of soldiers were shot and died-thats an insult to their memory to.Please God, let this be the straw that will break the DNC ‘s back and get rid of this harpy.

  • Hillary’s referencing the murder of a previous presidential candidate as a talking point for her continuing in this year’s presidential primary is at the least insensitive and thoughtless and at the worst despicable and dangerous. Her series of underhanded comments and constantly changing goalposts in this campaign disqualify her for consideration as our nation’s leader or even Vice President. There was a time when I could have voted for any of the top three Democratic candidates. It’s been down to one for quite a while now.


  • Hillary mentioning Bobby Kennedy’s assassination once is a gaffe. That is, if you want to be decent and give a candidate the benefit of the doubt in the midst of a long and trying campaign. Hillary mentioning RFK’s assassination twice in this election’s context is sowing seeds of doubt in Obama’s strength, only this time she’s taking it to the extreme.

    Hillary’s been given a lot of benefit of the doubt lately. Too much benefit of the doubt, as has been made plain by this incident. And her half-hearted “apology” only adds insult to injury. Hopefully the superdelegates and donors will agree and will begin exiting her campaign in droves. For a good number of anonymous blog commenters like myself it is long past time for Hillary to have left this campaign. She went from one in a field of many Democratic candidates who were referred to occasionally as an embarrassment of riches, to the candidate of inevitability, to habitual goalpost mover, to the say anything candidate, and then to this.

    Pathetic. Simply pathetic.

  • The thing that gets me is how a person, a young adult in 1968, if that person was truly affected by that vile spring, could ever be unmoved by the events that occurred. A visceral reflex should have prevented her from making the referrence she made.

  • Does anyone here NOW understand that she probabaly WOULD obliterate Iran into oblivion?( I thought that was a pretty insensitive remark,too.) But if she is so out of tune and out of touch with her own constituents,her own countrymen-what could we expect from this abcessed soul ,were she and her equally abcessed husband in the White House? God only knows,and He’s ,unfortunately,not yet telling.

  • #44 raises a very important point: As the New York Times reported this morning, Obama did start receiving death threats from the moment he announced his candidacy. His family, aides and supporters are very concerned about the risk of assassination. According to some reporting, Michelle Obama specifically urged Barack not to run because she was afraid he’d get shot.

    The only way I can subscribe to a charitable interpretation here is if Hillary Clinton is completely oblivious to that context surrounding her remarks.

    And as others have said, any idea that Obama would allow her to be his running mate has now gone out the window. He doesn’t want to have to watch his back every minute he’s in the White House.

  • Here’s the thing about charitable interpretations: Not once during this campaign did Clinton fail to pounce on the slightest misstatement that Obama might have made (e.g “bitter”). Instead, she took each and every one of them (and there weren’t that many) and rode it for all it was worth.

    I’m willing to give her the benefit of the doubt, even though that’s a courtesy she never extended to her fellow Democrat. But that doesn’t change the upshot of all of this: The Clinton campaign has sailed way beyond any usefulness or purpose. She is clearly damaging the party for no conceivable reason. She needs to get off the stage as quickly as possible with whatever small amount of grace that can still be mustered.

  • All those of you inclined to be charitable to Hillary, consider this:

    If she really is concerned that there might be an assassination attempt, and actually has any human decency in her at all and any qualification to be a leader of this country at all, then she should be expressing concern for Obama in positive ways and actively rejecting the racist vote, not courting it, and actively rejecting the wild attempts to connect Obama with “angry black men” (aka Wright), ex-terrorists (Ayres), and Islam (which in the minds of many ignorant racists means terrorism), instead of fostering these false connections and the fear provoked by them all along in her campaign. The thought that such a thing might actually happen should, in a leader and decent human being, go hand in hand with doing everything within her power, in word and action, to see that it doesn’t. Instead, she sees it only in connection with her change to win the nomination and presidency. This, whether she wants him dead or not, is so shockingly insensitive and irresponsible that no more needs to be said.

  • Dear Carpetbagger,

    Why do you have to give her the benefit of the doubt? Is this a Miss Manners moment? As many of your commenters point out, this is just the latest and maybe, just maybe the most offensive of a long stream of vile statements and allusions. The Jim Crow and Zimbabwe comments and the white Americans comments and the alleging sexism (true) and denying racism (not true) in the campaign were also disgusting and obviously meant as attempts to polarize, not lead and play a uniting role.

    We do not need to engage in faux politeness. Hillary has shown and is demonstrating over and over the same approach to politics as Bush/Rove. The ambition is blind and the only goal seems to be power and to win by one vote. Our country has been severely damaged, maybe permanently so (I hope to hell not, but it is going to take heroic efforts to get on track), and if this person were to be elected I am unfortunately confident the same divisive, self serving politics with all the collateral damage will continue.

  • One point that no one has mentioned yet — in any of the coverage I’ve seen. This wasn’t a ‘simple discussion’ in an editor’s office. This was being streamed over the Net and she knew it. If she were just being interviewed, and had made a gaffe (at best it was ‘innocent stupidity’) this bad, the editor could have asked her if she really meant what she had said, and give her a chance to ‘clean it up.’

    But she knew this was ‘going out live.’ She had a duty — to herself, her campaign, and the voters — to weigh her words carefully, to realize they’d be locked into the perpetuity of the Net. (As Obama has shown us, this doesn’t mean ‘weasle-wording,’ or backing down from her positions. He has challenged black homophobia in black Churches, challenged the ‘standard position’ on Cuba in front of the hardest-line emigre group. He even — in a story that just got drowned out — blamed Lou Dobbs and Rush Limbaugh by name for their actions and words that have resulted in the rise in anti-Hispanic hate crimes. And in every case, he seems to have made more friends than enemies simply by being honest.)

    My point? If you give her the ‘benefit of the doubt’ on everything, she’s still destroyed the only argument she ever had for voting for her — except the “It’s MY turn” bleat. This was that her ‘experience’ and knowledge of world situations have made her Presidential material — given her the proper “Presidential mind-set.”

    I agree that “Zimbabwe” was much worse, that the pro-McCain statements were worse, that the original thing that made me anti-Hillary — the Tancredo-like statements Terry McAuliffe made on NPR — was worse. But why argue over this. They were all, at best, ‘thoughtless stupidity.’

    WE CAN’T AFFORD A PRESIDENT WHO MAKES THESE SORT OF GAFFES UNDER PRESSURE. Who doesn’t understand politics enough to know this was live. Who doesn’t — even after the firestorm — even understand why people were upset, and who thinks apologizing for her blunder to the Kennedy family alone was sufficient.

    She has shown that her proudest boast — that she has a Presidential temprament — just ain’t so.

    [And please, before some idiot tries to twist my coments and claim they were sexist, my comment specifically refers to a personal lack in a particular Presidential Candidate, who happens to be a woman. The exact same thing could be said about the similar McCain gaffes.]

  • Prup, I think you’re being a bit unreasonable. There isn’t a person in the world who could withstand the months of media scrutiny that go with a Presidential campaign. In the thousands of hours of off-the-cuff speaking, anyone in the world is going to say some stupid stuff. If being human disqualifies someone from the presidency, well, I guess I could run my cat.

    On topic, I’m inclined to believe the charitable interpretation, but I’m a little confused about what exactly it is. If she wasn’t referencing RFK’s assassination, what exactly was she trying to say? That he was still campaigning in June?

  • put me down as believing “the uncharitable interpretation.”

    are there no other primaries that she could have used as an example other than 1968 and the assassination of RFK?

    i prefer obama to clinton, voted for edwards in the massachusetts primary although he had already thrown in the towel.

    that being said, i have been assiduously ignoring the catfight nonsense, but her RFK remarks (coming on top of the long list of other bone-headed, tone-deaf, childish and alienating remarks by her and her campaign) have brought me to conclude that i would not wish to see her elected as dog catcher.

    yeah, if she ends up as the democratic nominee, i’ll vote for her, but only because the idea of a mccain presidency has an impressive lead in causing vomit to come up in the back of my throat.

  • Steve,

    It’s not often that I think you’ve missed the mark in your analysis, but here I think you’re completely lost.

    Nobody thinks that Hillary Clinton was advocating for an assassination of the front-runner, and nobody sane thinks that she’s even hoping it happens. Her motives, her mindset — all of that — is not at issue, although of course some people are tying to make it an issue for political gain (both for and against Hillary).

    Here are the major problems with what Clinton said:

    1) If it’s prudent to be cautious about using the word ‘fire’ in a crowded movie house, it’s probably aslo prudent to be cautious about using the word ‘assassination’ in a hotly-contested American election. This is simple decency, and it’s not too much to expect that Hillary Clinton, who is aspiring to the presidency, will understand this. It’s not what she was thinking when she said it that is important, it’s that she said it at all. It was the one thing she must not say, and she said it anyway.

    Why is it such a big deal that she said it? Because crazy people — and here I’m talking about the mentally unbalanced in a clinical sense — quite often take literal cues from figurative speech. While it would not be Hillary Clinton’s fault if something terrible happened after she spoke about RFK’s death, her job — and the job of all people on the political arena — is to minimize this kind of rhetoric for expressly this reason. And you can see that pretty much everyone else HAS done so, precisely because of the reaction brought on by Huckabee’s ugly joke.

    2) Again, it’s not important what she said figuratively or literally, it’s important what she said logically. And what she has said logically, both in this instance and over the length of her campaign, is completely unacceptable:

    * She, her husband and her surrogates tried to paint Barack Obama as the ‘black’ candidate as early as New Hampshire.

    * She has embraced and in fact legitimized racism in the American electorate by embracing ‘white’ culture and emboldening people to speak out on the basis of race (including through the use of euphemisms).

    * Now, by choosing to cite RFK’s assassination as a reason for staying in the race — as against any other non-violent primary fight that went into June — she has logically put forward the idea that if Barack Obama was killed, she would be the nominee. Again,it doesn’t matter what she eant or believes, because this is what she said: if A, then B.

    3) Finally, regardless of what you think about all of the above, there can be no analysis of this statement that does not completley gut the main rationale for her candidacy. If she was simply tired when spoke — which is now the leading excuse among her supporters — then her 3 A.M. ads are revealed to be frauds because we don’t need a President who says the wrong thing when he or she gets tired. If she wasn’t thinking about the logical implications of her statement, then she also fails the text of experience and steadiness. And if she couldn’t put herself in the position of the Kennedys of the Obamas or even the average Democrat before she spoke then she fails the emathy test — and after George Bush’s reign we all know how important that kind of connection is to the health of our country.

    Steve, I really believe you’ve missed the importance of this moment, both logically and for what it says about Clinton as a candidate and prospective President. Parsing variations of what she might have meant or been thinking is very thin analysis (as well as exactly what the Clinton camp is now hoping everyone will do), and completely misses the important points.

    I respectfully ask that you rethink your analysis and post a follow-up piece, as opposed to an update of this post.

    Thanks.

  • What seems to me to be another oddity in using the 1968 campaign as a reference is that the Democrats LOST that year. No matter how you slice it, using 1968 as an example does not bolster her argument.

  • shillary should just go blow bill and then she couldn’t be saying all this crap. Of course, we all know this isn’t going to happen, that’s why bill needed to use monica as an ashtray for his expensive cuban cigars.

    Someone should put something in her mouth though to shut her up.

  • Her motives closely risen to the surface ready to bust forth due to blind ambition and desperation, she has revealed her innermost motives and subconscious desires. She should be given the door by the superdelegates for this very offensive yet telling remark that recalls a very sad and dark past in American history. I did feel sorry for her but not anymore. She has proved herself to be a woman devoid of conscience! A dangerous woman! She feels sorry for no one, not Barack or his family by this fear that is very real to them or to the Kennedys who are now going through a very tough and sad time.

  • What is remarkable about senator Clinton’s comment is that she said it twice in the past. Clinton realizes SHE’S NOT GOING TO BE THE NOMINEE, unless something catastrophic happens to senator barack obama. there is something vile and goolish about her mental state in this race.

  • Finally out in the open.

    “Shoot him, shoot him. Somebody just shoot him!”

    “Scary BLACK MAN about to steal your daughters.”

    “Surely one of my hard working white folks needs to get working.”

    Does anyone remember the Clinton mailer from West Virginia with a sniper rifle pointed at Obama’s head? This appeal to assassination has been going on for some time. She needs to be silenced before one of her followers responds.

  • It’s all too apparent to me that Hillary and Bill already have some kind of attempt on Obama planned, this is why they continue to stall the unification of the party. “Hold on folks, let’s just see what happens, okay?” She knows she can’t win at this point, but she can certainly put a call of desperation out, to include the murder of her opponent. I used to respect the Clintons to a degree, even admire Bill at one point, but this is the straw that broke the camels back for me. Enough is enough. I firmly believe she should be expelled from the race for this kind of rhetoric.

    If anything happens to Obama, she and her husband need to be held accountable…

  • shillary should just go blow bill and then she couldn’t be saying all this crap. Of course, we all know this isn’t going to happen, that’s why bill needed to use monica as an ashtray for his expensive cuban cigars.

    Someone should put something in her mouth though to shut her up.

    Seriously, littlebear? SHUT THE FUCK UP.

    I’m not a fan of Hillary, however, these kind of comments are really not acceptable. Try to aim a little higher, k?

  • Brooks:
    Interesting point, and yes, other candidates have made gaffes (I didn’t like ‘sweetie’ very much, or the Donnie McClurkin fiasco, to mention two Obama blunders).

    But if you think running for President is a high-pressure job, well, so is being President.

    You say “There isn’t a person in the world who could withstand the months of media scrutiny that go with a Presidential campaign. In the thousands of hours of off-the-cuff speaking, anyone in the world is going to say some stupid stuff. ” But a President faces four years or eight of just this type of scrutiny — and his words may effect not just votes, but American policy. Yes, there will be some ‘stupid stuff,’ but this has been the topper on a pile of similar statements that people bent over backwards to excuse or explain away.

    No, I don’t think she was being deliberately malevolent here. I do think the possibility of an assassination is in her mind. (And let’s face it, it is somewhere in the back of most people’s minds, because the death threats are out there, and because some of us — including Hillary — lived throuh the nightmare of the King and Kennedy assassinations.) But using this as an argument for her continuing to campaign was about as appropriate and tasteful as using pictures of Katrina, the Tsunami, or the Chinese Earthquake to sell beer.

  • Time for more than keyboarding folks – need more than another “101st Keyboarding Brigade” on this one. Obviously, the majority here (and across the nation) think this is “over the top.”

    More contact info:

    Howard Dean (deanh@dnc.org); Rolands Martin (roland@rolandsmartin.com); budmail@mail.house.gov; gabrielle.giffords@mail.house.gov; sf.nancy@mail.house.gov; mcnerneyinfo@mail.house.gov; mike.honda@mail.house.gov; samfarr@mail.house.gov; congressmanjimcosta@mail.house.gov; bob.filner@mail.house.gov; susan.davis@mail.house.gov; mark.udall@mail.house.gov; john.salazar@mail.house.gov; james.marshall@mail.house.gov; rahm.emanuel@mail.house.gov; nancy.boyda@mail.house.gov; dennis.moore@mail.house.gov; william.jefferson@mail.house.gov; charlie.melancon@mail.house.gov; don.cazayoux@mail.house.gov; michael.michaud@mail.house.gov; rep.sarbanes@mail.house.gov; steny.hoyer@mail.house.gov; john.olver@mail.house.gov; niki.tsongas@mail.house.gov; john.tierney@mail.house.gov; edward.markey@mail.house.gov; collin.peterson@mail.house.gov; gene.taylor@mail.house.gov; travis.childers@mail.house.gov; rush.holt@mail.house.gov; bob.etheridge@mail.house.gov; congmcintyre@mail.house.gov; tom.udall@mail.house.gov; charlie.wilson@mail.house.gov; rep.kaptur@mail.house.gov; zack.space@mail.house.gov; dennis.kucinich@mail.house.gov; dan.boren@mail.house.gov; robert.a.brady@mail.house.gov; jason.altmire@mail.house.gov; rep.doyle@mail.house.gov; john.spratt@mail.house.gov; jclyburn@mail.house.gov; lincoln.davis@mail.house.gov; bart.gordon@mail.house.gov; nick.lampson@mail.house.gov; jim.matheson@mail.house.gov; alan.mollohan@mail.house.gov; senator@ksalazar.senate.gov; senator@jbiden.senate.gov; senator@tcarper.senate.gov; senator_harkin@exchange.senate.gov; webform@landrieu.senate.gov; senator@cardin.senate.gov; webmail@baucus-iq.senate.gov; senator@tester.senate.gov; webmail@reid-iq.senate.gov; webmail@lautenberg-iq.senate.gov; senator@brown.senate.gov; senator@rwyden.senate.gov; senator@reed.senate.gov; senator@webb.senate.gov; webmail@kohl-iq.senate.gov

    Contact email link for DNC:
    http://www.democrats.org/page/s/contactissues

    Contact email link for Pelosi:
    http://www.speaker.gov/contact/

    Contact email link for Pelosi:
    http://reid.senate.gov/contact/

    Link to other Dem Leaders’ websites:
    http://democrats.senate.gov/leadership/

    Fax nos.

    DNC: (202) 863-8063
    Pelosi: (202) 225-8259
    Reid: (202) 224-7327

    And the phone numbers:

    Howard Dean
    Chair
    Dem. Nat’l Committee: 202-863-8000

    Nancy Pelosi
    Speaker of the House: (202) 225-0100

    Harry Reid
    Senate Maj. Leader: (202) 224-3542

    Steny Hoyer
    House Maj. Leader: (202) 225-3130

  • gee, zoe – no less constructive than proclaiming you are in the race because someone might kill Obama.

    And the larger point is this: WHY DOES SHILLARY RELY ON THE SUPPORT OF THOSE THAT DRAGGED THE CLINTONS THROUGH THE MUD IN 1990s?

    Gotta love it when people use patently offensive language to claim someone has stated something offensive.

    wadda maroooooooooooooooooooooooon

  • but I see you proudly proclaim you are from kentucky, like that makes you insightful?

    Do I know I can’t expect much…

  • “Angry” doesn’t even begin to cover my reaction to this numbskull comment from Sen. Clinton. She gave a feeble apology to the Kennedys. Where was her apology to Sen. Obama? He’s the one who has received death threats.

    This comment was merely one of many in a series of mean, race-baiting, lying comments from a sore loser.

  • Prup, how much spontaneuous, off-the-cuff speaking do you think Presidents do compared to candidates? And how much pressure, comparatively, are they under? The job pressure is huge, of course, but they’ve already been elected. There’s no desperate need to change public opinion today. There are no 16 hour days of stopping in three states and talking to five groups. There is, usually, a teleprompter.

    I’ll assert that the process of running for president is far more conducive to gaffes than actually being president (of course, the current office holder has the ability to turn a scripted statement into a gaffe, but he’s spectacularly incompetent).

  • I’d have to say my jaw hit the floor when I first heard the RFK comment I agree her statement that there were “people trying to push her out since Iowa” was far more offensive once I heard the RFK remark in context. Now, as to whether she did this intentionally I can’t say and unfortunately I can no longer say it is something she would never do.

  • Um, I’m not from Kentucky, little bear. Unless you are, in fact, a small bear.

    Although that really doesn’t have much to do with anything. Mostly I was calling you on your rather repulsive, sexist comments. I don’t care who you’re talking about, but suggesting that someone should shut up a woman by shoving a penis in her mouth is totally uncalled for. I don’t care who the woman is, it’s disgusting.

    You’re sort of unhinged, aren’t you?

  • I’m with Keith Olbermann on this– mentioning RFK’s June assasination as justification for staying in the race after she has lost all chances of winning is unforgivable.

  • MFI (@71) Well put, better than I was able to do, but with similar points.

    zoe: just ignore Cubbie and see him/her as the local example of Prup’s Law (“Whatever position you take in any political, social, sexual, or religious debate, you’ll have some idiots agreeing with you.”)

  • zoe – I didn’t say that… And you proclaim to the world that kentucky (re: clinton’s uneducated white supporters) somehow add to your identity. Are you somehow unhinged?

    But love your profanity and it does show your thinking… Sounds like KENTUCKY thinkin’ to me.

    Please, go bleach your brain –

  • prup feels so self-important that he actually proclaims theres a law named after him – please, ol-geezer, you are not that big a deal here or anywhere else.

  • Zoe: Give it up. You’re not going to change the troll by (justifiably) looking down your nose at him/her/it. All the troll has is bluster, and when called on mistakes and immature silliness, more bluster is all the troll provides. Really, you’re wasting your time by trying to get the troll to grow up.

  • shade tale – you constantly proclaim yourself the master of the threads, but no one seems to notice.

    Keep up your self-proclaimations – they make funny reading for the rest of us. But please keep them short – skip anything you right that is more than 2 sentences because self-rightousness, even from BLOG GODS, becomes a bore.

  • I’m an Obama supporter and I lean towards the charitable interpretation. When I first saw the quote out of context, I was outraged. But after seeing the video, I think it was just a very poor choice of words.

    I think the problem is that we Obama supporters have lost all patience with her. From the “as far as I know” comment to the commander-in-chief threshold comment to the “hard working, white Americans” comment, she’s shown herself to care more about herself than her party. A team player wouldn’t have torn down another party member like that and would have dropped out a long time ago.

    So while I give her the benefit of the doubt on this one, I don’t feel the slightest bit of sympathy for her now that this has generated such a firestorm. My only concern is that this drives another wedge between her supporters and Obama’s.

  • You know, the “charitable” interpretation isn’t very nice.

    It suggests that she was so self-absorbed that all she was thinking about was justifying her sticking in the race through June. So she just picked the first two examples she could think of with people in the race in June, Bill and Bobby. Bill because she was involved, and Bobby because all of us who were engaged in 1968 remember that awful event.

    But it WASN’T the first time she’s said it, she’d had plenty of time to find better examples of candidates on the stump in June. She wasn’t just mentioning Bobby because he was the person who came to mind after Bill.

    And, if she’d really been one of us who was engaged enough in the 60s to remember Bobby being shot, she’d have it permanently marked as a Special Subject, not something to be casually trooped out in service of an argument that didn’t really have anything to do with RFK or what he stood, and died, for. And once it had slipped out once, she’d have heard how bad it sounded, and found a better example. But she didn’t.

    Plus, both the Bill and the Bobby examples were basically saying, “You know, the California primary used to be in June.” But this year, it was in February. In 2008, the primary season is OVER. So, even in the ‘charitable’ interpretation, she’s making a bogus argument.

    So, at BEST, she’s an insensitive poser, using the name of a great man to make a bogus argument in service of her own ambitions.

    And that’s being charitable.

  • Jim D – fair enough – important points that are well-stated.

    The most offensive thing about this is that mclame is constantly flip-flopping and outright lying and shillary focuses her entire campaign on sliming Obama and not stating that assassination provides a valid rational for her to continue a negative campaign against her opponent (the implied target of said assassination).

    Her candidacy would be entirely justifiable, accepted, and perhaps welcomed if she spent her energy, time, and resources focusing on the distinction between her Democratic ideals and dur chimpfurher and mclame.

    Instead, she chooses to catapult kkkarl roves talking points, accept the racist support of rush limbaugh, and constantly attack Obama. There is good reason to fault her on this.

  • When Hillary was asked if her staying in the race was hurting party unity she used RFK’s summertime assasination to argue that primaries going into the summer are OK. (Meanwhile, she’s glossing over the fact that the Dems lost that year.) The fact is that we’re going to need some serious time to heal the rifts between Hillary and Obama’s supporters. For her to pretend otherwise reveals just how completely out-of-touch she truly is.

    Recently she and some of her surrogates have been openly flirting with the idea of taking this to the convention if ALL of the Florida delegates aren’t seated. While I think her assasination reference was a stupid, stupid gaffe hopefully it serves a greater purpose– hopefully this will help end her run sooner rather than later.

  • she will be laughed off the convention floor if she keeps this up – no excuse for the RFK statement that she has made repeatedly – as pointed out in this thread, this was not a gaffe

  • I don’t think Hillary is qualified to be president or seek the office of president after statements like this. it is unbelievable. i saw the video yesterday afternoon and was completely stunned, and shocked. this is far more offensive and divisive than anything i have seen in same party politics ever. this will no doubt end up in history books!

  • Um, that’s the National Enquirer guy who claims to have slept with Obama while they both smoked crack together, right? He couldn’t be spinning any of this for money, right?

    Why even pay any attention that completely and totally crazy crap???

    (gag)

  • When George W. Bush said that he’d given up golf out of respect for U.S. military casualties in Iraq (which incidentally happened to be untrue) I thought it was the most stupid, offensive, and politically maladroit comment he’d ever made, which is saying something.

    Yesterday, Hillary topped him.

    I voted for Obama in the NY primary but until this week I was determined to vote for the Democratic nominee in November, whoever it might turn out to be. This week was the tipping point, however. First “Zimbabwe,” now this. No way will I vote for her again, and that goes for re-election to the Senate as well.

  • I think that there hasn’t been enough of a firestorm over this in the media. I think they’re giving her too much of the benefit of the doubt. This remark was unconscionable for all the reasons listed by people above. If it were a remark in isolation, I could excuse it as a gaffe. Coming after everything else that’s gone on from her end in this primary race, and coming most recently on the heels of the Zimbabwe and civils rights analogies, it just adds to my perception that this is a woman with a real problem ethically. She just comes off as a sociopath. A sociopath is a person who does not understand the moral rules of society and how they apply to him/her. They can learn the social rules as rules they have to follow, but they do not internalize them morally. Hence, when they think they can get away with breaking them, they try. I have noted for years that Hillary Clinton has a tin ear for ethics. Over the course of this campaign it has become really obvious as she uses what she thinks are the rules of politics — that is, her understanding that politics is not fair — but uses them without being able to apply some internal sense of ethicality to them. True, politics is not fair. Obama is an example of a good politician. He plays the accepted political games to his advantage. She plays political games without understanding that the people who watch these games do have a sense of morality that has to be appealed to by the politicians who play them, even if it is not shared by those politicians.

    She just doesn’t get it. I’ve thought this for years. I knew even before Obama came on the scene that I would never vote for this woman for president. Morality does matter to me.

    I am deeply unhappy with the leadership in the democratic party. They have given her pass after pass because she is married to a former democratic president. They need to stop. THe republicans would have gotten rid of her long before if she were one of their candidates. IF this latest comment doesn’t spur the leadership of this party to finally act, then the democrats deserve to lose in November.

  • I want to go with the charitable option….but she could have said Kennedy won the nomination in June…and left it at that. But she didn’t…she injected ‘assassination’ into the reasoning. Given some of her other commnts…injecting white when she could have left it at working class…I’m more inclined to think she did it on purpose. I think she purposely panders to the underinformed in her base..throwing out these comments…knowing many of them will just pick up on underlying intent.

  • And if Obama is stupid enough to make her VP after this comment, he WILL lose in November, because any republicans and independent he might have appealed to before will consider him to be really weak after this, and justifiably so. They will rightly understand that this comment was unforgivable, and the erroneous perception out there that he’s wimpy will be cemented. I am an Independent Obama supporter and I date a Republican political consultant. I know what I’m talking about.

  • Of all the “historical” references to campaigns running into June, why would she bring this up? What does RFK’s assassination have to do with it anyway? No matter what she intended to imply, the very fact that she is even thinking about it is…odd. I wondered before she said this if she was just hanging around waiting for something to “happen” to Obama. Never did I think she would let it slip out.

  • The only lesson that the democratic party has learned from the Bush years is that it’s ok to fight dirty. What they have not learned is that fighting dirty is not the underlying reason for their success. The underlying reason is that they stick together and don’t implode. Recall how heated the rhetoric between McCain and Bush was, recall how heated the rhetoric between McCain and Romney was. But before it was too late, they rallied together because they knew they would weaken their party if they didn’t. The goal was to win AGAINST the democrats. Hillary’s goal is not for the democrats to win, it’s for her to win. By allowing her to continue months after it has been known she’s going to lose, the democratic party is allowing itself to implode. If Superdelegates do not flock to Obama in droves after this latest, if the democratic leadership does not pressure her to stop her campaign after this, it WILL implode. Mark my words.

  • Clinton reminds me of Alexander Haig, who declared himself the next in line when Ronald Regan got shot. Sorry, but, it would be beyond crass for her to be Obama’s veep now. I do think she didn’t mean for it to come out that way, just like Haig didn’t didn’t mean it to come out that way, but I cannot help but feel that power ambition getting in the way of dignity. In fact, I haven’t seen a whole lot of dignity coming out of Clinton for quite a while now.

    I think she should stay in the race, til the last state votes… then exit gracefully. She’s got to get going on damage repair in June. She ran a good race, but… she didn’t win. And that’s all there is to it.

  • I called my undeclared senator, Ron Wyden, yesterday and the woman that answered said she had no information for me on his choice. I left a message asking the senator to come out in support of Obama.

    In light of yesterday’s comment by Hillary I have just emailed him. BTW, my comments are sincere. I was truly impressed by Sen. Wyden when I met him. I gave him some information on a group I am involved with that promotes social justice issues and he asked me what we had been working on and were we successful; he was very pleased about our group. And at that town hall meeting, he looked at me the entire time he was answering my question.

    Here is my email:

    Dear Sen Wyden:
    I had the pleasure of meeting you personally here in Bend in the Fall of 2006 and also being able to ask you a question at a town hall a few months later. I am impressed by your concern for America, for her people and the people of Oregon, and your willingness to listen.

    As an undeclared superdelegate, you must make a decision of which candidate to support. Perhaps you have decided, but simply are waiting for whatever reason.

    In light of Barack Obama’s 18% win here in Oregon, his now owning a majority of elected delegates, and now with the increasingly off-the-wall and possibly dangerous histrionics* of Hillary Clinton, I would urge you to get off the fence and announce that you will support Barack Obama. It is time for the Democrats to unite behind Obama so that we can win back the White House this November. A McCain presidency is the last thing America needs.

    Thank you for your consideration,
    Hannah

    * I am referring to her comparing Florida to Zimbabwe and yesterday’s incredibly insensitive remarks re the assasination of Bobby Kennedy. Being 55, I remember all too well the assasinations of JFK, MLK, and RFK. There are too many of us worried that this scenario will repeat itself. Not to mention bringing this up the same week as Sen. Ted Kennedy received such a devastating medical prognosis.

  • Like Senator Clinton, I have had the Kennedys much on my mind lately. Ever since I heard the terrible news of Senator Kennedy’s diagnosis, the most enduring image I have of him – his eulogy for his brother Bobby – has kept coming into my mind. The image endures for me (who heard it as an eleven year old) because it was such an affecting mixture of courage and vulnerability in its delivery. The youngest brother – less than five years (less than our time in Iraq) from the shocking loss of one brother – is called upon to be the public face in the loss of another. For some reason yesterday – before hearing the news of Senator Clinton’s comments – I decided to search for audio or a transcript of the eulogy. I wound up finding one on YouTube that overlayed the eulogy with photographs from RFK’s 1968 run. I found those images – absolute throngs of people all with hungry hope on their faces – to be eerie on two levels. The first was the visceral reminder of all that was lost on that terrible day in June 1968 – much more than an eleven year old could fathom at the time. But I also found them to be eerie in that the images looked so familiar. The crowds; the hungry hope; the people yearning for leadership that is worthy of them.

    MFI’s analysis @71 has persuaded me that Senator Clinton must be held to hard account for her statements. I had been inclined to excuse her under CB’s “charitable” scenario. But, when I hold her accountable, I am also holding another person accountable, Bill Clinton. It is my belief that Senator Clinton’s campaign reflects their shared strengths and, sadly, shared pathology. N. Wells @ 23 does a good job laying out the sad and silly journey the Clinton Rationalization Tour has taken. IMO, her actions – above all else – demonstrate absolute contempt for the voters she claims to champion. Her shifting goal posts and rationales, her tortured contemporary and historical analogies indicate she thinks voters are too stupid to know the difference.

    One of the reasons I have so detested BushCo is because I have felt they had only contempt for the public. It is time for the Democratic party to get the hook and invite the Clintons off the stage. The degeneration of HRC’s run for the presidency has damaged both of them. It is time for them to go – completely, utterly. No VP slot (never wanted that); no SCOTUS nomination; not even an ambassador’s post in Antartica.

  • #94 biggerbox: You know, the “charitable” interpretation isn’t very nice.

    It suggests that she was so self-absorbed that all she was thinking about was justifying her sticking in the race through June. So she just picked the first two examples she could think of with people in the race in June, Bill and Bobby. Bill because she was involved, and Bobby because all of us who were engaged in 1968 remember that awful event.

    But it WASN’T the first time she’s said it, she’d had plenty of time to find better examples of candidates on the stump in June. She wasn’t just mentioning Bobby because he was the person who came to mind after Bill.

    And, if she’d really been one of us who was engaged enough in the 60s to remember Bobby being shot, she’d have it permanently marked as a Special Subject, not something to be casually trooped out in service of an argument that didn’t really have anything to do with RFK or what he stood, and died, for. And once it had slipped out once, she’d have heard how bad it sounded, and found a better example. But she didn’t.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    perfectly said

  • According to Clinton’s background, she can not accept to be a loser in her life. She is a very very super typical politician………for her own ambitions, she can do whatever she need to crab it, very self-center & shameless. Hillary Clinton’s principles only focus on one thing……..HERSELF. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are two extremely different types of personalities………..as water and fire, can not be fit each other……..”Dream Ticket” is an extraordinary super nightmare as image.

  • 47. On May 24th, 2008 at 10:42 am, ClareA said:
    Clinton was the choice of about half of the Democratic Primary voters. Do you believe that they are just deluded or that they are as malevolent as their chosen candidate? Do you think that her supporters are now suddenly going to “see the light”?

    Yes, ClareA, I do believe that many of them have.

  • First of all historically her comments are invalid. In 1968 the primary race didn’t start until March. So in June it was technically less than 3 months old. The 1972, 1980, 1988 all these primaries went way longer than the one in 1968.

    In 1992 the primary season started in Feb. By March Bill Clinton had pretty much locked up the nomination.

    At this point Hillary Clinton is throwing shit on the wall with the hopes that some of it will stick. In this case it boomeranged right back at her.

  • It is surprising how HRC tries to push the envelope. In everything that she does she has a set strategy
    1) aim as low as you can (incite racism, fear, assasination scenarios)
    2) If it misfires, divert any criticism by playing victim (sexism, mysogyny, skewed media)

    This time its just way to low for a lot of ppl I think. Cant tell though… I can see it working.. “oh well she is the first women candidate…dont pile on her.. see assasinations have happended you know, and she was only mentioning it”
    Yeah I am reeling from a sense of moral dissorientation. Where do we draw the line again??? and what are the standards for women? Is it ok to criticize her for anything at all?

  • she didn’t apologize. so she meant what she said. what part of ‘I wish he was dead’ requires greater claritty. superdelegates keeping their silence are in concert with this statement at this point.

  • Look. I’m smart, and a woman, and I recognize a smart woman when I see one. I also recognize a manipulative woman when I see one. Hillary Clinton appears to be both – and she’s ambitious. Charity or non-charity aside, I think it’s a dangerous combination. Think about it: She’s been caught lying over and over during her campaign. She’s changed hats and messages and styles and positions quicker than you can say “gimmee”. She’s expressed willingness to use the nuclear option. And two of the Clinton staffers wound up with bullets in their brains during her husband’s Presidency. This is getting a little too close for comfort for me.

    At the very least, it looks to me like she’s trying to inject fear into this campaign and sway voters away from Obama. At the worst, she either hopes he might get assassinated, or is using the power of suggestion to possibly sway some unbalanced person out there to actually try it.

    And in case you didn’t notice, although she “regrets” that she might have offended the Kennedy family, she made no apology at all for publicly giving the appearance of wishing Obama dead, and possibly even inciting his death. That to me is the greatest offense of all.

    I’m a conservative, and probably won’t vote for either. But I’d take Obama any day over Hilary. I don’t like his politics, but I do like him. Hilary, on the other hand . . .

  • Rich (#13) sums up the situation eloquently. Clinton’s RFK remark tapped into America’s primal, gut fears about what can happen to inspirational figures: a lot of us are already worried. To have the possibility treated so cooly and with such calculation was disturbing, horrifying. To say the reaction is possibly not “fair” is to miss the point: massive reactions like this, immediate and not built up over days by rerunning clips and pundit harangues, reflect instant revulsion by everyday people. In addition, the remark wasn’t necessary: there are other examples of lengthy primary seasons. It rewrote history (again): Bill had the nomination well in hand before June ’92. And it was political lunacy, the product of very bad judgment whether planned or an ad lib: what sensible candidate wants to portray him/herself as a ghoul or vulture? She needs sleep, yes, and extended quiet to reflect, recollect her better self. She is not ready, not now or for Day 1.

  • I’ve been reading about this and discussing this elsewhere, and now I’ve ended up pretty close to Steve’s position.

    I was initially angry with Clinton for both her gaffe — while it wasn’t malicious, it was a verbal misstep in the worst possible taste — and her non-apology apology. I thought her claims of people trying to push her out of the race back to IA and her choice of historical comparisons, even without the assassination reference, were weak and self-serving. I thought Obama and his family should have been openly referred to and apologized to in her statement.

    But now I think everyone in both campaigns, and much of the media, has been deliberately dialing this back. Someone elsewhere thought that Clinton’s naming of the Kennedys only and not Obama was a deliberate part of her apology (although I think that her final pat on her own back re the Senate seat was just a really stupid bit of rambling on her part and not part of the script).

    The big risk, I think, to her original statement was the possibility that some nutbar would think she was finally issuing orders to him. If so, anything else she said afterwards had to be deflected away from Obama as much as possible. I think that most of the media is playing along, because CNN paid lip service to the story this morning and has dropped it this afternoon. Axelrod showed no eagerness last night on Hardball to keep talking about it, and Chris Matthews let him brush it off. And I still have enough faith in her as a human being — albeit one who has really pissed me off lately — to think that she made a decent and full apology to both the Kennedys and Obama and his family.

    This was still a really stupid thing for her to say. I think she realizes just how much she fucked up. And I did feel sorry for her when I saw her statement later that day, and I feel sorry for her and her family as I wonder about what kind of sleepless night they had. She didn’t just say something potentially dangerous and definitely tasteless, but she may have made herself and Obama more of a target than before. I’ve bet their security is really ramped up now. And not only has she lot any chance at the VP spot, I think she knows that she can’t fight on past June 3.

    Yeah, I’ve thought that before, and she always came back, especially this week with the OTT crap in Florida. But this is different. I think a hell of a lot of SDs are really angry with her. I think she’ll be scrambling to keep whatever goodwill she has left.

  • Somebody mentioned that Hillary had actually lived through the events as an adult, and should have realized the horror that she was invoking. Well, I’m one year, four months and ten days older than she is — okay I was curious and checked. We both lived through those days. A lot of you didn’t, and saw them only as tv movies or documentaries.

    Now there’s a lot of nonsense talked about the 60s, starting with assuming that the decade was ‘all of a piece.’ It was such a series of ‘waves and retreats,’ especially politically — and that’s what I’ll be focusing on, not the cultural or sexual changes, for the most part.

    It started with Jack Kennedy — and whatever has come out about him later, he was a breath of fresh air that made the difference between the ‘black and white’ fifties and the ‘colorful’ sixties. If you’ve seen the movie PLEASANTVILLE, it is a very apt — if overstated — analogy. But maybe a better fact to make the point is that when businessmen started wearing (very pale) pastel colored shirts to the office instead of white ones, this was so significant that a major magazine (LIFE? LOOK? One of those two) did a multi-page story on it.

    Kennedy brought joy and laughter to the Presidency, and to people — particularly those my own age — who had felt stifled in the Eisenhower conservatism. It sounds funny but the fact that there was a comedy album based on the President — and one that everybody was laughing at — including him — made a big difference.

    Then came Dallas and Oswald. And we saw LBJ take over — and we didn’t know him, and he scared us. Until he made the greatest strides in domestic policy since FDR. And then Goldwater ran — not the frequently wise libertarian he became, but the ultimate Cold Warrior, the True Conservative that every one on the Right said would show what America stood for, the man who had his biography written by Phyllis Schlafly, who chose — and I am sure regretted — to go the racial route by arguing against the Civil Rights Act on specious “Constitutional” grounds.

    And he was defeated, and Republicans lost seats right and left, and the Democrats finally started shedding its racist Southern component — and had a big enough majority that they didn’t need them anymore.

    And then came Vietnam to the forefront. And it really isn’t accurate to compare it to Iraq. First, we can say ‘Iraq is the new Vietnam’ but we had nothing to compare Vietnam to. We’d always been ‘the good guys’ — and we really had, with some exceptions — but we weren’t in Vietnam. And Iraq is the product of a religiously conservative Republican Administration in conjunction with the neo-cons. But Vietnam was, sadly accurately, ‘the Liberal’s War.’ It wasn’t Goldwater who was pressing the fighting, and lying to the people, it was LBJ. (And that was to matter much more later).

    And most of all, there was a draft then. If you were male and 18, you had to report to a board – usually composed of the most conservative people around — and they could tell you you had to join the army and there was nothing you could do about it except enlist in another service or ‘disappear’ or figure out some way to play the system. (I had a psychotherapist — a very major name who is still alive — who simply wrote a letter saying, in effect, ‘Jim’s a little crazy, but not as crazy as you’d be if you drafted him.’ And mentioning my own bisexuality closed the deal and I got a 1-Y.) It didn’t matter if you agreed with the policy, or the war, unless you were willing to claim to be a total pacifist and could convince those people that you were sincere, you had to go fight if you got drafted.

    And another factor. Iraq has been disputed from the beginning, but the McCarthy era hadn’t completely ended then, and dissent was, in many people’s eyes = communism. It took literally years before the opponents of the war could be heard.

    But we were still optimistic, and still laughing. We might not have completed the civil rights struggle, but we’d established beachheads that would never been retaken. Goldwater had been defeated, and the Republicans looked like they might dig up that national joke, Richard Nixon, and run him. And we’d seen that ridicule and laughter were our best weapons, and watched politicians finally beginning to hear us. (Even Robert Kennedy, who’d held out much longer than we like to remember, had finally been convinced to come out against the war.)

    There were disquieting signs. We idolized Martin Luther King — and his tactics of non-violence were ours. We’d let them show their true colors, the brutality they embodied — only we’d added something in those joyous times. We didn’t just want them to reveal their brutality, but their absurdity. We wanted to people to see them for the clowns they — in so many cases — were.

    But all of a sudden another movement was taking place in the black community, one that rejected Martin and Martin’s idea, that preached ‘power that exists in the barrell of a gun,’ that Martin was wrong in emphasizing the racism hurts everyone, white and black, and working with whites on what should be ‘their struggle.’ (Meanwhile, we were just realizing that ‘civil rights’ were much broaders, that the same struggle tied in feminism, the rights of protestors, and — after Stonewall — the rights of gays.) These people argued that the real evil of racism was that they were the victims — and yes, we saw their point, knew what they had suffered and that none of us could match their suffering — or their ancestors. Still we were saddened more than horrified at their portrayal of Martin.

    But we were still optimistic, We still had Martin, and he was linking the struggle for civil rights with the struggle for economic rights and the struggle against the war.

    And then came James Earl Ray, and we no longer had Martin. And we saw the riots — and, unlike our parents, we understood them. (We didn’t like seeing them, or favor them, but we could only imagine seeing someone who had been their greatest hope snapped away, and the blind lashing out that could result.)

    But while we were shaken we remained cheerful and optomistic. We had Bobby Kennedy, he’d win the nomination, he’d defeat that clown Nixon, and he’d stop the war. And we knew he’d work to bring back the gains on civil rights, and saw him as the embodiment of other hopes.

    And then came June — yes, the nomination struggle was still going on. Then came Sirhan Sirhan.

    And everything changed.
    (to be continued)

  • Senator Hillary knows exactly what she was saying, what in a person heart will surface, you have to ponder on a thought inorder to say it out loud, the heart is very wicked, people often say you can’t trust noone, you have to first trust yourself. The truth like never before is coming forth, that is why former President Bill Clinton wants so badly to put his wife on on the V.P. Ticket, they like many think Senator Obama will get assinated. It has been discussed just like race in the world it exist and it will alway be there.
    Senator Hillary spoke what was in her heart. Come on America be real with yourself, come out of the group mind set and think for yourself.
    America need much prayer, the world need much prayer.
    I think about how the voting has been split between set or groups; white, black, asian, Jews, religious, hispanic, white collars, blue collars, men, women, young, old, etc.., Look at an individual vote, if you are old enough to vote and legal to vote just vote, 1 vote count as 1 single count.
    The only difference is the party republic or democratic that is the only difference.
    Also all we need to pray is for the best candidate to do what is right for the country and on their policies. 1 man or woman does not rule the world by themselves they are not God.Come on people can’t we reason together -seek wisdom and understand from on high; When Our Lord and Savior returns to set up his Kingdom then we will have a 1 world government, we as people will never be as one, there is to many who wants to be head in leadership and not enough to lead.
    Jesus Will Descend To Jerusalem To Set Up His Earthly Kingdom.Revelation 20:4-6 (NIV) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
    We need to support the one who will get the nominee stop tearing one another down.
    I read that state and church did not mix, why is politics and church being a big issue this election. The importance of faith/belief statements:
    We feel that every denomination, para-church organization, religious group, and religious web site should consider creating a statement of belief or faith and displaying it prominently.
    King James Bible
    mark 12:17
    And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s. And they marvelled at him.

    Read your Bible, all this will come to pass: Somebody wrong the Bible is right.

    Jesus Will Descend To Jerusalem To Set Up His Earthly Kingdom
    Job 19:25-26 (NIV) I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. 26 And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God;
    Psalms 68:29 (NIV) Because of your temple at Jerusalem kings will bring you gifts.
    Isaiah 18:7 (NIV) At that time gifts will be brought to the LORD Almighty from a people tall and smooth-skinned, from a people feared far and wide, an aggressive nation of strange speech, whose land is divided by rivers– the gifts will be brought to Mount Zion, the place of the Name of the LORD Almighty.
    Isaiah 24:23 (NIV) The moon will be abashed, the sun ashamed; for the LORD Almighty will reign on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem, and before its elders, gloriously.
    Daniel 7:13-14 (NIV) “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
    Daniel 7:27 (NIV) Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’
    Joel 3:16-21 (NIV) The LORD will roar from Zion and thunder from Jerusalem; the earth and the sky will tremble. But the LORD will be a refuge for his people, a stronghold for the people of Israel. 17 ‘Then you will know that I, the LORD your God, dwell in Zion, my holy hill. Jerusalem will be holy; never again will foreigners invade her. 18 ‘In that day the mountains will drip new wine, and the hills will flow with milk; all the ravines of Judah will run with water. A fountain will flow out of the Lord’s house and will water the valley of acacias. 19 But Egypt will be desolate, Edom a desert waste, because of violence done to the people of Judah, in whose land they shed innocent blood. 20 Judah will be inhabited forever and Jerusalem through all generations. 21 Their bloodguilt, which I have not pardoned, I will pardon.’ The LORD dwells in Zion!
    Zechariah 14:8-11 (NIV) On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter. 9 The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name. 10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up and remain in its place, from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.
    2 Timothy 2:12a (NIV) if we endure, we will also reign with him.
    Revelation 5:10 (NIV) You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
    Revelation 12:5a (NIV) She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.
    Revelation 19:15a (NIV) Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”
    Revelation 20:4-6 (NIV) I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
    Shown above is a series of aerial photographs (approved by the IDF) of Jerusalem, from the perspective of coming from the East while looking West; the perspective that Jesus will have when He returns.
    In the last photograph, note that the Golden Gate, or Eastern Gate in the right foreground wall is bricked in. This was bricked in by Suleiman the Magnificent, reportedly to keep the Messiah from entering through it.
    Also note that the Golden Gate is off-center from the Dome of the Rock. Many historians and artist’s depictions reflect that the entrance to Herod’s Temple was directly behind the Golden Gate. Today there exists enough room on the Temple Mount for the Third Temple.

  • How thin skinned are the Obama folks? We can’t talk about skin color — we CAN talk about him being skinny, though — but in this RFK remark what is most remarkable is Obama folks’ thin skinned reaction. He has thin skin. Too thin to be president. And now the list of taboos grows, now U.S. presidential election history is off the conversation too. It seems to me that around MLK holiday, many people talked about MLK’s untimely demise. Did Obama take that personally too, as a threat? Nope.

  • CB said that he inclined towards the charitable interpretation, but he appears to be looking at the RFK remark as an isolated incident (or two since this is the second time Clinton made the remark).

    On the other hand, most of the rest of us see this remark as just another example of a very ugly and dysfunctional pattern of behavior.

    Regarding the media, this remark was just as disturbing the first time she made it. That the media remained silent then, but decided to report now is sorry illustration of how these guys work. They build a person up when they get in the mood, simultaneously tear a different person down and then turn on a dime. Anything to distract us from nuclear proliferation, growing poverty rates, global warming, economic distress and the rest.

  • Hey, if you reading this are a (D) superdelegate who is as yet publicly uncommitted, would you please react to this latest imho outrage and put the HRC campaign away for good and certain, and SOON? A grateful party thanks you.

  • Thank you for your personal POV, prup. I’m truly looking forward to reading your next post.

  • #122 Prup/Jim: thanks for that and I look forward to the rest. I am six years younger than you and don’t remember JFK’s presidency so much, mostly his assasination. I was a young teen when MLK and RFK were assasinated and remember all too well, which is what caused me to gasp in disbelief when I read of Hillary’s comment. Those were very, very dark days in our country’s history. Too many people I’ve talked to are worried about a repeat of history. I can’t believe Hillary doesn’t see it (apparently). What does this say about her?

    #124: “thin skin”? What are you talking about? Obama talks about his “mixed up” family background* and his African father and white mother all the time. It’s those of us who have read of death threats against him, read about those who are fearful of him becoming president who are worried. That’s not being thin-skinned.

    * per a 5/21 campaign rally, his half sister is of his mother and her second husband, who was Indonesian. This sister is married to a Chinese-Canadian and they have a daughter, who is therefore Chinese/white American/Indonesian. See “We all have a piece of each other” video at the top of jedreport.com.

  • HRC’s RFK comment was: NOT a mistake, NOT a gaffe, NOT a Freudian slip, NOT due to fatigue, and WAS as one previous comment noted Karl Rove-like in pushing the envelope. HRC will say and do anything to win. She is the last person this country needs as a leader. She panders to voters using crass classism, racism, sexism, and just about any -ism she thinks will help her win. She owes Obama and this country an apology. I proposed Obama or McCain promise to appoint her US ambassador to Zimbabwe or Iran or one of the other countries she is so “enamoured” of and send Bill with her. HRC IS A MONSTER!!!!!

  • HRC’s RFK comment was: NOT a mistake, NOT a gaffe, NOT a Freudian slip, NOT due to fatigue, and WAS as one previous comment noted Karl Rove-like in pushing the envelope. HRC will say and do anything to win. She is the last person this country needs as a leader. She panders to voters using crass classism, racism, sexism, and just about any -ism she thinks will help her win. She owes Obama and this country an apology. I proposed Obama or McCain promise to appoint her US ambassador to Zimbabwe or Iran or one of the other countries she is so “enamoured” of and send Bill with her. HRC IS A MONSTER!!!!!

  • The problem with the defense that she was just comparing it to a long primary is that RFK’s campaign in ’68 didn’t begin until March 16th when he announced he was entering the race. The first Primary he competed in wasn’t until May 10th, thus RFK was only FOUR weeks into his campaign when he was assassinated, not part of a drawn-out primary. There is no comparison aside from his assassination occurring in June.

    This was a grave mistake on her part and puts Barack, as well as McCain, Hillary and even Bush in jeopardy. I have worked with the mentally ill for 13 years and many who suffer from delusions are very susceptible to this kind of suggestive language. The last attempted assassination of a President was against Reagan and his assailant was schizophrenic. There is no place in politics for a seasoned politician to make these kind of dangerous and incredibly offensive comments.

  • Hillary is running up again the curse of New York. It went into effect in 1974 not 1968. RFK died of the Kennedy curse not the the New York curse. The last president elected from New York was Richard Nixon. Though he was a native Californian and ran so for president in 1960 but lost to JFK. Nixon ran for president from New York in 1968 and won. The curse of New York went into effect on 8/8/74 and Nixon resigned the next day. Hence forth no person from New York will ever again be elected president. JFK met with demise with the Zero Year curse which was broken by Ronald Reagan in 1981.

  • Ooops…I sent individual copies (of my letter to Howard Dean) to all the addresses posted by little bear (#80) and they ALL came back undeliverable. I am NOT making this up. This are no longer “attended” mailboxes; you’ll need to go to individual websites of those in Congress and send via their personal website email addresses. (I did so with Senators Boxer and Feinstein and Sen. Schumer of New York, and they DID go through.)

  • #48 Ronald Press the ‘Insert’ key (probably above the ‘Delete’ key). It is how you got there; this toggles you out.

  • #124 – very weak try to somehow, anyhow, anyway make Obama and his supporters the bad players in this sordid mess. Shame on you. This kind of twisting the facts to fit a myth is sorrily typical of the desperate and increasingly pathetic HRC campaign.

  • I would respectfully ask all here to Google up “Expose’: Christian Mafia”, by Wayne Madsen. Although it sounds “over the top”, please do not be put off.It is amazing!

  • I’d like to believe it was No. 1 in your list (an innocent mistake), but I’m afraid it was No. 3. Clinton already has a long and shameful record of dropping subtle and not-so-subtle hints in order to plant ideas in people’s heads while retaining deniability — most notably the “as far as I know” remark.

    She reminds me of a trial attorney who blurts out something incendiary knowing that the other side will object and get the remark stricken from the record — but you can’t strike the remark from the jury’s memory.

    In a way, her ploy was successful despite the media firestorm. She gets off the hook by saying she misspoke, and now people are openly discussing the possibility of Obama being in danger. I just hope the remaining superdelegates won’t fall for this nonsense.

  • DON’T BE DUPED AGAIN AMERICA !!!

    IT’S ABOUT ELECTABILITY !!!

    Large numbers of BUSH_McCain Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on with the backing and help of the medical and insurance industry. Under the direction of the George Bush, and Karl Rove vote fraud, and vote manipulation machine. Because they feel Barack Obama would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. And they want to stop Hillary Clinton from fixing the HUGE! American, and Global mess they have created. shocking!!! isn’t it. Just gotta love those good old draft dodging, silver spoon Texas boys. Not! 🙁

    You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don’t want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves off of you, and your children’s suffering.

    With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality affordable universal health care for everyone very soon. And you are also certain to see major improvements in the economy for everyone.

    The American people face even worse catastrophes ahead than the ones you are living through now. It will take all of the skills, and experience of Hillary Clinton to pull the American people out of this mess we are in. Fortunately fixing up, and cleaning up others incompetence, immoral degeneracy, and mess is what the Clinton’s do very well.

    Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

    Just look at Oregon for example. Obama won Oregon by about 70,000 votes. But approximately 79,000 Bush republicans switched party’s back in January to vote for Obama in the democratic primary. They are not going to vote for, or support any Democrat in November. Are you DEMOCRATS going to put up with that. Are you that stupid, and weak. The Bush republicans think you are that stupid, and weak.

    As much as 30% of Obama’s primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses, and open primaries where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help. Except North Carolina where 35% of the population is African American, and approximately 90% of them block voted for him. African Americans are only approximately 17% of the general population.

    Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton. This is even more phenomenal when you consider she has been also fighting against the George Bush, Karl Rove vote fraud machine in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses. Hillary Clinton is STUNNING!.

    If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. That is crystal clear now. Because all of the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. And the demographics, and experience are completely against him. All of this vote fraud and Bush republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is.

    You will have another McGovern catastrophe where George McGovern lost 49 of 50 states. And was the reason the super-delegates were created to keep that from happening again. Don’t let that happen to the party and America again super-delegates. You have the power to prevent it. The only important question now is who can best win in November. And the answer is HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON. That fact is also now crystal clear.

    And YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose. As do African Americans. Support Hillary Clinton. She will do her best for all of you. And she will know how to best get it done on day one.

    The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

    The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

    Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic, and heroic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen. Probably the best there has ever been. 🙂

    “This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)

    Sincerely

    jacksmith… Working Class 🙂

    p.s. Cynthia Ruccia – I’m with ya baby. All the way. “Clinton Supporters Count Too.”

  • “Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed.”

    Almost entirely on name recognition. The more voters get to know her, the less they like. Witness California now becoming Obama country.

    The only demographic she continues to lead in is women over 50. And after her RFK comment I’m not too sure about that.

  • Great site!

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  • Beautiful, beautiful commentary, Prup (#122). This is very much how it felt to me too, what I too remember. We were young, energized,, confident, full of hope and imagination. And then shocked aghast unbelieving, shocked again and hurt to the core, shocked a third time and horribly, unbearably sad. Thank you for saying this so well, for capturing the way it was.

  • (and everything changed).

    [I am telling this story in detail not because I experienced it, but because Hillary did. Her viewpoint and perspective was different, but then all of us are blind men describing the part of the elephant we perceived. And just to add a point that my wife made. She spent 8 years in the White House. For her, the threat of assassination was something that influenced her life constantly. She knows it in ways we can only imagine.]

    We weren’t optimists any more, and all of a sudden we had forgotten how to laugh. We didn’t have a leader. We had Gene McCarthy — who wasn’t going to win, who could only be a protest — George McGovern — who ‘took over’ the Kennedy delegates, and who we didn’t know at all. Or we had the worn-down Hubert Humphrey, once a truly great man, but hamstrung. And all of a sudden, the unthinkable happened, and it looked like Nixon would win. (And the Democratic Convention hadn’t helped. We knew it was a ‘police riot,’ that we had been provocatively non-violent, like Martin had taught us. But it hadn’t worked. People were blaming us for the violence.)

    And Nixon won, and we scattered. Some into mysticism, since the hawks had proclaimed how ‘rationally’ they were acting. New Age, Jesus freaks, Wicca. Some into violence, deciding that we couldn’t win any other way — and damning our reputation when we did win, politically. And some into pure self-indulgence, or into a disgust with politics so that the Religious Right swapped places with us, getting more active as we retreated.

    But after “The Good Guys Finally Won,” after the war was over — messily and with nothing more accomplished than would have been if Bobby had lived — and lived up to our expectations — after Nixon had retreated in disgrace, we weren’t ‘called back’ to the party. There was no attempt to play to the ideas and ideals we had expressed. We’d been the ones who had been right — and Democrats welcomed our votes, but didn’t play to our broken dreams.

    (It was unfair, but understandable. Many of the Democrats remembered the McCarthy era, when a corrupt clown — voted as the 95th most effective Senator when there were only 96 — had become a frightening power in the country by arguing that we had ‘lost’ China and claiming that this was deliberate treason. And of course, ironically, he’d never believed a word he’d said, he’d just used the idea for political advantage. And the Republicans were threatening the same ‘stab in the back’ legend and were claiming that they would have won the war if they hadn’t been undercut by the media and the radicals. Nobody wanted to relive the days of the Unshaven Ghost, so they didn’t want us calling attention to ourselves — and we were so turned off by politics that when they nominated someone who — they thought — would appeal to these new groups of voters who defined themselves as Christian rather than to us, we said fine, we’ll get on with our lives.

    Then came Iran — another ‘liberal blunder’ but one that was much better intentioned. We, rightly, withdrew the support from the Shah — who we should never have supported in the beginning. And, as George Bush was later to do in a neighboring country, we thought the educated, Westernized elites would be the successors. We totally ignored that old cleric in France who kept on sending out these audio casettes. We were secular, the people we spoke with were secular, we didn’t realize how important religion could be.

    And the hostage crisis, and the style of Jimmy Carter — now seen as ‘weakness’ — gave us Reagan, and the Laffler curve, and the ‘no new taxes’ mantra, and there wasn’t money or will for true progressivism. And when the Democrats rejected Kennedy for Carter, and then followed Carter with the worn-out, once-great Mondale, and then with the egregious Dukakis, progressive liberalism seemed dead.

    Things changed slightly in the early Clinton years — but then we were faced with ‘triangulation’ and ‘it’s the economy, stupid.’ And after all the lies and slanders, one of the charges, the sexual one, proved to be true.

    Which has gone on to long, but it shows what Hillary experienced, what i experienced, and why the assassination of Robert Kennedy was so important — even to people like me who didn’t have as high hopes for him as I had had for his brother. And for other groups he reached more directly, and particularly for blacks — to whom he was, potentially, the wearer of Martin’s mantle, it meant even more.

    And that is why so many of us were disgusted at the statement. Hillary, you aren’t someone who knows of this time through the history books. You lived it.

    How could you?

    [I started this in early afternoon, and got pulled away for various things, so it follows #125 in sequence. I know it was long, and for many of you, nothing new, but it’s hard to get feelings into history books.]

  • Re #143: Hillary, you aren’t someone who knows of this time through the history books. You lived it.

    Exactly, Prup/Jim. As I said in comment #49 in the thread “The Request that Democrats aren’t supposed to make”: most Obama supporters I talk to who were old enough to remember the 1968 assassinations of MLK and RFK fear a repeat of those tragedies. That’s another reason I believe Clinton wasn’t speaking in the abstract which makes her multiple references to Bobby Kennedy’s assassination reprehensible.

  • Who wants a president who does not salute our American flag?? That is
    dishonorable and a disgrace to our country and what it represents.
    Shame on you for voting for this preacher of a man.

    See him in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72B3tUAqpo4

    WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR A PREACHER! ! !

    WE ARE LOOKING FOR A PRESIDENT! ! !

    It’s never too late! VOTE 4 HILLARY ‘08

    TEAM HILLARY STILL HAS MOMENTUM – SHE WILL WIN THIS ELECTION AND THE
    PRESIDENCY IN THE END.

    SHE IS THE CHANGE WE NEED – WAKE UP AMERICA! !

    Well, I am a proud American and I do not trust this FRAUD. We are not
    looking for a preacher! WE NEED HER to guide us out of the war and get
    our economy back in shape. Hillary will win against McCain because she
    will give us the change others preach about.

    Hillary knows her s#^+ and we need to allow her to get us back on
    track NOW. She will clean up another Bush era.

    SHE WILL GET US BACK ON TRACK.

    ANYHOW, MONTANA, SOUTH DAKOTA, & PUERTO RICO ARE COMING UP AND THEY KNOW WHAT OBAMA IS ALL ABOUT. THEY ARE HIP TO HIS GAME. THERE ARE 55 DELEGATES AT STAKE THERE AND HE DOESN’T HAVE A CHANCE. WOOOOOOHOOOOOO!!!!

    THANK YOU ! Thank you! THANK YOU – SMART VOTERS ARE VOTING FOR
    HER!!!!

    DON’T BE FOOLED BY THIS PREACHER – THAT IS ALL HE IS – TAKE IT TO
    CHURCH – WE NEED A PRESIDENT – COME BACK IN 15 YEARS OBAMA.

    If he is the nominee, I will not vote. She will bring the change and
    we have seen it.

    WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR A PREACHER! ! !

    WE ARE LOOKING FOR A PRESIDENT! ! !

    It’s never too late! VOTE 4 HILLARY ‘08

    TEAM HILLARY STILL HAS MOMENTUM – SHE WILL WIN THIS ELECTION AND THE
    PRESIDENCY IN THE END.

    SHE IS THE CHANGE WE NEED – WAKE UP AMERICA! !

  • Jim thanks for putting it down. I was in the third grade when Jack Kennedy died. Never forget the day as long as I live. (And no Crissa this isn’t ancient history, toots) I was walking up the sidewalk to my elementary school, in small town North Carolina when I heard mothers weeping in the parking lot. My teachers were crying. I had no reference for grief that big and it was scary.

    We watched the funeral and wept. It was a tragic time to come of age. To this very day, pictures of John-John saluting his dad’s coffin still chokes me up.

    A few years later, little Lady Bird came through my town on the back of a fancy train. Despite the fear from blatant threats against her life, this brave little woman (a REAL first lady!) took the message to the South. Even as a young girl, I gathered from this one moment in my history what it meant to stand tall.

    Barack Obama is the embodiment of all the Old Souls from that era and in January 2009 with his inauguration, we will mark the true beginning of the new millennium.

    The torch has been passed and I am hopeful once again.

  • Senator Clinton’s comments were taken completely out of context. In response to the comment, Senator Obama himself stated that he would take Clinton’s word for it, that she did not intend to offend anyone and only tried to make an analogy between elections. Even Robert Kennedy, Jr. said that he understood Clinton’s referencing his father’s assassination as proof of long-term campaigning: “I have heard her make this reference before, also citing her husband’s 1992 race, both of which were hard-fought through June. I understand how highly charged the atmosphere is, but I think it is a mistake for people to take offense.” (CNN)

    Now, if Robert Kennedy’s own son is expressing an understanding of Clinton’s remarks, and calling it a “mistake” for people to be offended, how could anyone blame her for the remarks? This is not even the first time she has made the analogy (she made a similar remark to Robert Kennedy in a March Time interview); perhaps due the timing alongside Ted Kennedy’s illness, or because the fight to be the Democratic nominee is taking longer than most of us thought it would, it seems as if her remark is being taken out of context for the obvious political reasons.

    Jumping to conclusions to make the inaccurate and judgmental attacks on Senator Clinton cannot even be defended by Robert Kennedy’s family… Let’s not accuse Clinton of saying something hurtful before thinking, because the reference was only meant to make a comparison, and NOTHING else.

    As for Obama’s camp saying that the reference was “unfortunate” and had “no place in the campaign,” it is rather unfortunate that one would try to try to shed such negative light on the issue and subject the Kennedys to even more pain than need be.

    Face it, being the MORE EXPERIENCED & BETTER QUALIFIED candidate, Senator Clinton is not backing down.

  • You know, Hillary has also told her supporters that she will support and campaign for Obama were he to win the nomination. She tells us that it would be a mistake to vote for McCain or to not vote. And she also said this at least three times without anyone calling her on it. After all this, I can’t help but believe there is some unspoken secret evil lie in this. Hah! she won’t fool me.

  • Clinton and “universal health care”? Gimme a break!
    Clinton is so completely sold out in her Magic Princess greed for the nomination that she practically embodies the old saw that we have “the best government money can buy.” A case in point would be the misnamed quest for “health care” (actually equitable medical care) for our poor benighted citizenry, an issue that Clinton attempts to claim for her own:

    It is often observed that in USA, to make mere eye contact with a physician costs at least a hundred dollars, while physical contact with a physician costs five hundred dollars or more. For example, under this barbarous system of preventive-medicine-for-profit, even a cursory physical examination can easily run to a thousand dollars, the few minutes of medical time outrunning in costs a month’s pay for many citizens. I speak not here of CAT scans and breast implants, mind, but of the most elementary preventive or palliative care, the simple checkup, the prescription of an antibiotic for a case of strep throat.

    The single central cause of the US national health-care meltdown is the control of availability of medical care for citizens by entities designed specifically and precisely to profit from injuries and illness. Yet La Princesa so delights in the campaign riches granted by her insurance-for-profit masters that she proposes to extort yet MORE funds from citizens to bolster their booty, by forcing us to pay private insurers tribute via the power of the law! Never once does this frightful woman demonstrate sufficient empathy to suggest that the health of our citizenry might be a matter separate from and above the profits of the vast corporate conspiracy proposing to purchase her presidency!

    Obama doesn’t (yet) propose legally-enforced extortion for the benefit of medical profiteers. One imagines that he might even consider working toward the simple step of making preventative medicine (checkups and the like) universally and conveniently available to US citizens, eliminating its domination by profit-seeking entities! In such a case, many of the chronic health problems currently facing our citizenry could be significantly mitigated, saving untold costs in the future.

    Clinton sees this. In her recent remarks concerning assassinations, perhaps she’s bringing her realization of Obama’s greater responsiveness, and the voters’ recognition of same, to the fore. She knows she cannot win without classical Clintonian (Machiavellian) machinations. She’s cornered herself like a rat.

  • she argued that “people have been trying” to push her out of the race “ever since Iowa.” Really? Who are these people?

    Edwards was recorded by several news organizations telling Clinton that “we should try to have a more serious … smaller group,”
    to which Clinton replied, “We’ve got to cut the number.”
    “Our guys should talk,” Clinton added.

    Clinton is projecting her own attempts to limit democracy
    and exclude Senator Gravel and Congressman Kucinich from
    debates onto whoever calls for her to resign like George
    McGovern.

  • in response to Jacqueline you see Clinton is not the more expereinced candidate she’s been int he white house so what? Clinton is a snake I was originally a Clinton supporter than I heard her diminish black people voting for Obama becuase they were black, Obama doens’t discredit white female voters who vote for her. Clinton everyimte Obama has made a gafee has jumped on it and tried to discredit him and even now with something scary to many Americans especially Obama and his family he gives her the benefit of the doubt. Clinton wants to obliterate a country of innocnet people. How would you feel if Iran nuked us cause they didn’t like Bush? Clinton has tired to get ignorant Americans like those in West Virginia and Kentucky and really all over the palce to fear Obama trying to say he’sa Muslim when even John McCain disowns anybody who tries to use Clintons’ tactics and even fired staff memebers who tried to put fear in the hearts of Americans about Obama. McCAIN! Clinton compared Michigan and Florida’s situation to Jim Crow! Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot in Michigan let’s get that stright first.

    Okay then you ahve the fact Clinton was fine with Flordia and Michigan’s votes nto counting BEFORE Obama started to gain some steam. Okay okay that not enough for you? How about her lying about Bosnia? If she is willing to lie about something as frivilous as Bosnia what else will she lie about to get what she wants?

    Now I know some are unsure about this but i don’t want Clinton to become vice presidnet becuase it would not be beneath her at this point to have Obama assasinated just to become President. What she wants to beocme the party nominee is undemocratic she wants to change up the rules int he middle of the game this isn’t CalvinBall (Calvin and Hobbes refrence) this a democratic election. She said when she was the front runner it was entirely up to the voters now she says that voters are important part of this process but not everything.

    Is this STILL not enough for you? Okay what about hw she’s trying to destroy the democratic party for her own interest? How about the fact she ran an ad about Barack not being able to answer a phone? How about the countless and countless tiem she has said soemthing stupid and controversial and Obama becuase he’s a good man won’t destroy her. if he wanted to he could’ve destroyed her but Obama is about uniting people not tearing them apart.

    Okay Jeremiah Wright wanna throw that screw in there? Firts off Obama disowned him he’s not relevant okay how about the fact that Rev. Wright was the Clinton’s spiritual marriage counselor during Bill’s affair? Nobody seems to talka bout that do they? Of course not!

    If Clinton somehow was the Presidential nominess for the democratic party as an African-American first time voter registered independant I will cats my vote for McCain becuase McCain is an honest man while Clinton is a liar and a cheat. She utterly disgusts me and I don’t want to have to look my kids in the eye (when I have kids) and say I voted for her to be president. She to me is one of the most evil human beings right now, part of it may be Bills’ fault he probably made her this way with his public affair but that serves as no excuse Clinton you are not someone I will vote for ever, not now, not in 4 (hopefully 8 years with Obama) not in 8 not in 12 not in 16 not ever! Ever! Ever! Ever! You are a disgrace to decency , the stae of new york, this country, your fmaily anme but more importantly to yourself! Nobody asked you to drop out until it was mathematically obvious Obama was going to win, so take a hint and drop out we don’t want you anymore!

  • Actually, Clinton’s comments were not taken out of context. Clinton’s campaign up until know is to create doubt in the minds of the super delegates so that she can secure the nomination. I would agree that her comment was not to suggest that Obama would get assassinated, but to cast doubt.

    Clinton and some of her supports (including Geraldine Ferraro) have made outrageous claims. Similar claims have not come from the Obama camp, however some idiotic statements have come from some Obama backs. The thing that can be concluded is that Clinton has been a very divisive campaigner in this Democratic presidential nomination.

    It is quite offensive to hear that Clinton is “more experienced and better qualified especially after this latest mistake. Both that was used in bad taste and factually incorrect.

    I am one of many people who at the start of the democratic primary had believed that Clinton would have one. Then had see this process become historic with the possibility of a woman or an African-American win the Democratic nomination. We have seen people vote across gender and ethnic lines making this one of the most exciting primary in history. The voter turnout and money raised are a historic level.

    Then something happened. More and more Democrats seemed to believe that Obama was their favourite choice. However, men lined up in several states to give Hillary Clinton resounding victories, but it seem it may be too late for Hillary Clinton. Clinton’s; the candidate who was suppose to win; campaign seem to be consistently out performed by Obama’s.

    Clinton’s apology is weak, and is a clear demonstration that she is not ready. It is unknown if the super delegates will see through her ploy.

    She wants to make people believe that she is a victim of sexism, however she has been very successful in winning states.

    She wants to make people believe that not counting the Michigan and Florida primaries are akin to slavery, or equal rights.

    She wants to make people believe that the middle class-blue collar would never vote of an African-American in the general election.

    She wants to make people believe that white people would not vote for Obama, even though his success is based on the fact that white people have voted for him.

    She wants the Florida and Michigan primaries to count as they are, with Obama getting no delegates from Michigan. In other words she wants no sanctions against to states that broke party rules, and Obama punished for removing his name from the ballot in Michigan. Even though she had originally agreed with sanctions that removed the two states all there delegates.

    She wants to make people believe that black people are voting for Obama because he is black, even though her campaign has sum high profile African-Americans supporting it. Also, she had larger support in the African-American communities than Obama.

    Let’s us put everything into perception for those who believe Clinton can win. Based on the current delegate counts/estimates there are two unlikely scenarios for the remaining primaries. Without considering the remaining super delegates. If Obama win the remaining primaries with 64% he would secure the Democratic nomination. If Clinton does the same 64%, Obama would only need 13% of the remain super delegates. Even if Clinton gets 100% of the remaining primaries, Obama would need only 29%. All three scenarios are highly unlikely. The Democratic party has selected Obama, and it is only a matter of time that it will become official.

    Clinton’s words continue to damage her image, and presents her as being inept (even though she is not).

  • Senator Clinton is so crude, cold, heartless, and selfish, that she probably really thinks there’s nothing wrong with the idea of staying in the race just in case Obama is assassinated. She has heard about the death threats. All that matters to her is that she gets the nomination, by any means necessary.

    She wanted the New York Senate seat bad too. John F. Kennedy Jr would have won by a gigantic landslide, but he died in a mysterious plane accident. Her political career is sooooo over.

  • How is it she can have ‘charitable’ interpretations for her remark and she can get a pass about the words coming out incorrectly, or being tired, or blah blah…

    However when Obama said ‘Typical white woman’ when referring to his grandmother, few people were ‘charitable’ or gave him the benefit of the doubt, when any fair person would realize he meant ‘ORDINARY’ and not ‘Typical’. It just came out wrong. By context, and by his facial expressions it was clear what he meant. Yet he received a firestorm for that.

    Also, he even clarified his ‘Bitter’ comment, said he mangled his words while tired and really meant and should have said, ‘FRUSTRATED’. Even with his sincere explanation he was still vilified for what he said, and then he was accused of being an elitist, and then later accused of not being able to capture the vote of working class white Americans (not true by the way). In other words there was a landslide of consequence for what he mistakenly said and even explained and apologized for.

    It’s clear that there is a double standard and that Hillary is given the benefit of the doubt more often, and gets more of a pass in these matters.

  • There is something untoward about the cavalier manner in which death entered the conversation especially during campaign season. Whether intentional or not, only Hillary Rodham Clinton knows for sure, however, the innuendo is unmistakable. Some argue the reference to Bobby Kennedy’s “assassination” was not directed at Obama; it was part of the timeline. Others argue she was just tired. It would be one thing if this had been Hillary’s first time to say such a thing it is quite another when it is the 3rd or 4th time. Once is a mistake, 3 or more is a tactic. She should have just said Bobby Kennedy competed thru June period, but didn’t which created the tempest in the teapot.

    Why even bring up Bobby’s assassination in the first place? If that is Hillary’s justification for staying in the race she is mistaken; she could and should have suspended her campaign.

    Furthermore Hillary’s egregious gaffe, on the eve of the anniversary of Bobby’s death and 3 days following Kennedy’s diagnosis is not only insensitive toward the Kennedy family and Obama, who has received death threats, and his family, it is inexcusable and unconscionable.

    No matter how it is spun by every mathematical equation Hillary Rodham Clinton lost – not because of gender; Hillary lost because she ran a sloppy campaign and made a lot of mistakes — this particular one, on so many levels, may be her worst!

    Compounded by the fact her husband wrapped-up the nomination in March of 1992 not June of 1992 as she suggests may be the tempest in the teapot of Hillary’s own undoing.

  • It is very clear what she meant to do insight fear in people that Obama could be assassination. There is no dobut in my mind about that, and that is scary enough. But that she would want the nomination under those circumstances, knowing she hadn’t earned it. I tell you, we better put her to bed while we have a chance, because she is on the brink of “insanity”. She is now like a cult leader, looking for somebody to follow her and adopt her idology of “me, me, me”, “somebody look at me, I deserve this.” We should name the next natural disaster “Hillary”, because she is all about destrucion.

  • It’s the Scorpion which symbolizes Scorpios, and it’s no accident. Much like the Scorpion would rather kill itself than be killed, those born under this Sign are the ones who are in ultimate control of their destiny. It is life on the Scorpion’s terms, too, since these folks promote their agenda (they are quite the executives) and see to it that things go forward. Others may find this overbearing (it can be) and even self-destructive, but that’s the beauty of the Scorpion: these folks have tremendous regenerative powers, much like the literal Scorpion can lose its tail and promptly grow a new one. Fearless Scorpions rarely lose, per se, they just keep on going, since they are stubborn and determined to succeed (this Scorpio trait is in keeping with the Fixed Quality assigned to this Sign). Scorpios work as hard as they do so they can someday sit back and feel satisfied with themselves. These folks are intense, passionate and filled with desire. They’re also complex and secretive, so don’t expect to get much out of them, lest they become suspicious and exit stage left. It’s best not to bet against Scorpios, either, since these folks are surprisingly resourceful.________________________Hillary is a Scorpio.

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  • Hillary Clinton, as with the Bosnia sniper fire delusion, suffers from a fantasy that she is the front-runner, and with her forever shifting goalposts, her new lunatic math and kitchen-sink-sewer, failed and bankrupt campaign, wants Obama to give her MORE TIME ssso some evil and psychotic person can clear the road to the WH for her . I am a feminist older than Mrs. Clinton and as an American patriot, I need to do the right thing and tell Mrs. Clinton and sex-addicted impeached Bill, get out already! The Clinton dynasty has been spoiling not just Obama’s race in November but also the entire Democratic Party and its representatives’– congressmen, governors, district officers, mayors, etc, etc–ability to win in future elections. Bill is fighting Obama to return to the WH for a third term, and Obama has been fighting not just two Clintons (both playing every dirty card in politics) but also the GOP and the mainstream media who want to see the contest continue and their high ratings maintained. To claim Senator Obama is not electable because he is black is to say that only white Americans, like Bill and Hillary, can become President, as they have for over 200 years. No Native, Hispanic, or Asian American need apply as well just in case they’ll end up like Robert Kennedy as well. Is this what we want for our republic? Senator Obama MUST denounce and reject Hillary’s shameless agenda. He MUST stop treating Hillary as an older white woman like his mother and therefore to be respected, and show her for the corrupt (25 million dollars gained from influence peddling last year alone), lying (Bosnia sniper fire), bullying (Judas name-calling), ruthless (just look at her ads), unelectable (highest negatives ever in a presidential candidate, and negatives increasing every day) small human that she is. The Party Elders Must remove Hillary, the basest fear-mongering, saber-rattling candidate ever, before something really really bad happens with all the hate-inciting she and Bill have been doing.

  • By more experienced I was not simply referring to having been in the White House. I was referring to her ACTUAL EXPERIENCES: U.S. senator from New York, 2001-2006, re-elected Nov. 7, 2006; first lady of the United States, 1993-2001; partner, Rose Law Firm, Little Rock, Arkansas, 1979-1992; associate, Rose Law Firm, 1976-1979; faculty member, University of Arkansas Law School, 1975; staff attorney, presidential impeachment inquiry, House Judiciary Committee, 1974; staff attorney, Children’s Defense Fund, 1973.

    Furthermore, I cannot fathom how one can come to the conclusion that by making that RFK refernece she was insinuating Obama may be assassinated… Way to jump to conclusions and make your OWN assumptions. Anything anyone says can be misconstrued if one maliciously digs deep enough… Oh, and Obama’s “typical white woman” comment was not a reference, it was rather racist. What exactly is a typical white woman, can you explain that?? And to say that Pa. workers in small towns are bitter about losing jobs and thus “cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them,” is rather IGNORANT. Who is HE to speak on behalf of those workers and assume that is how they deal with their frustrations?.. which explains why he did SO well in Pa.

    And as for ending this race, and not seating Michigan and Florida delegates, why don’t we all let the Democratic Party surrender while we’re at it? Looking at the bigger picture (and not just at why Republicans and the Obama camp, as well as supporters are trying to prematurely push Clinton out of the race… )
    Why would we shun the voices of the people in these states, and let the government and administration get away with it? More importantly, why punish our OWN party? I find it interesting that Florida Governor Crist thought it was “brilliant” to move the primary up… how ironic. This reminds me of the General Election in 2000 all too much. Coincidental? I think NOT. Let’s not make the same huge mistake again by allowing shady politics to prevent Clinton from getting ALL of her hard-earned and deserved delegates seated. Let’s not take the voices of the people away in Michigan and Florida; let’s give them BACK.

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