It’s time to repeal the Second Amendment

Guest Post by Morbo

Last week, I wrote about deluded NRA members who actually argue that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to arm the citizenry in case it becomes necessary to overthrow the U.S. government.

Some who responded to that post noted that a federal appeals court in Washington, D.C., recently struck down that city’s gun-control law, adopting a broad interpretation of the Second Amendment that seems to be at odds with Supreme Court precedent.

I agree that this ruling is troublesome and dangerous. I hope it is overturned on appeal. But that won’t be enough. The only way we can prevent dumb opinions like this from resurfacing is to repeal the Second Amendment.

The Second Amendment has long been a subject of controversy because of its vague wording. It states, “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

The debate centers around whether this amendment confers an unfettered right on individuals to own firearms or whether that right exists only within the context of a state-run militia. I side with the latter view, but I also believe that the entire debate is antiquated and esoteric. We would be better off simply ditching the Second Amendment. It is a relic from days gone by, and it is time for it to go.

As I mentioned last week, in the post-Revolutionary period, a system of state-run militias looked like a viable possibility. Rather than a large standing army, the nation would rely on a corps of citizen-soldiers who would spring into action when needed. Naturally, they would need to bring their own arms.

It didn’t work out. The militia was failure during the War of 1812, and it soon became obvious that the United States would need to follow the example of European nations and form a large standing army if it wanted to secure its place as a world power.

The citizen-soldier/militia concept had powerful appeal to the founders. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both spoke positively of gun ownership. No one should be surprised by this. The founders lived in a largely rural nation uncertain about its standing on the world stage. Jefferson and Madison might have felt differently if psychopaths were regularly taking flintlock rifles into shopping malls and blowing away 12 teenagers at the food court.

Unlike the First Amendment, which is a grandiloquent statement on the right of free people to express themselves that transcends all time, the Second Amendment reflects an obsession particular to the late 17th and early 18th centuries. It’s like the Third Amendment, which forbids the quartering of soldiers in private homes. The country was a very different place back then. The Founding Fathers could not have foreseen the rise of urban metropolises or the rapid escalation in firepower that today enables a deranged malcontent to mow down dozens of people with an assault rifle. We should not hesitate to admit that times have changed and ditch a constitutional provision that no longer serves any useful purpose.

Some might argue that amending the Bill of Rights is dangerous. I disagree. The problem with amending the Bill of Rights is that over the years, most of the proposals have been foolish or short-sighted. This hardly indicts the entire amendment process.

For example, with the Supreme Court narrowing the application of church-state separation, I would support an addition to the First Amendment stating explicitly that no tax money is to be spent on sectarian activities. I would not support one fostering state-sponsored prayer in public schools.

Finally, I don’t want to hear that repealing the Second Amendment is not worth pursuing because it won’t happen any time soon. I freely conceded that it will not. Our generation will not see it happen. If we’re lucky, the next generation will. (Assuming they survive climate change.)

Congress, even under the Democrats, remains in the death grip of the NRA. We should push for repeal of the Second Amendment anyway. Great ideas often take a long time to come to fruition. The Thirteenth Amendment ended slavery in America, and the Fourteenth Amendment guaranteed equal rights to all citizens — yet African Americans did not secure civil rights for 100 years. Women’s suffrage was first proposed in the United States in 1848. It did not become federal policy until 1920.

It is time to quit trying to reconcile our need for a sane gun policy with the antiquated language of the Second Amendment. We must cease pretending that we can live with the Second Amendment, as long as it is interpreted properly. Let’s not give judges the opportunity to misconstrue it by getting rid of it outright.

Once this is done, federal, state and local gun laws can then take whatever form the people want through their elected representatives. A sparsely populated, largely rural state like Wyoming may choose relatively few gun controls. The urban areas of the East Coast would likely adopt tighter laws.

If the idea of repeal sounds insane, remember that the first people to propose the vote for women were considered lunatics. They were subjected to verbal assaults and violence. The same thing happened to those advocating the end of child labor, the creation of labor unions, gay rights and many other good things. History has vindicated them all.

Someday history will vindicate those who laid the groundwork for the repeal of the Second Amendment. When, far in the future, that history is written, wouldn’t you like to be recorded as one who had the courage to stand on the right side?

[Editor’s note: Firearm enthusiasts should remember that this is a guest post and does not necessarily represent the opinions of the editor, who sincerely hopes not to get shot by an outraged NRA member. Angry mail should be directed to Morbo, not me. -CB]

Considering how infrequently the NRA actually invokes the 2nd Amendment in court, I think repealing it is totally irrelevant. Until you have legislatures — Fed and State — willing to craft “sane” gun policy it’s not going to happen. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t prevent that policy, the NRA, a well funded lobbying organization, does.

For the record, I’m old enough to remember lefties arguing the 2nd Amendment is there to allow them to overthrow Nixon;>

And for the record, my policy reccommendation is to treat guns like cars: registration, licencing and testing on a regular basis.

  • Interesting post here. I can’t say that I agree. First, I believe the implications of the second amendment extend beyond personal gun ownership. The justification for the National Guard comes to mind. Second, I don’t really see what the world would look like in a repealed second amendment era. What would happen? Would owning guns be a criminal offense? That seems extreme. Unlike voting or civil rights, gun ownership is a condition not an action. Sure, regulate the hell out of guns. Fix the loopholes. Get a decent background check system. Even increase penalties for crimes committed with a gun, but don’t criminalize their ownership. Guns form a part of the cultural landscape of much of the U.S. Here in the southwest, for instance, virtually everyone owns guns. Relatively few people actually use them with any regularity. Sure there are hunters, but mostly it’s “this was great-grandpa’s rifle… it’s been in the family for three generations.” I know this is the case with me, it’s the case with my wife and many of our friends. I hope I’ve responded to the substance here. Interesting stuff.

  • You are wrong in so many ways it is hard answer every idiotic thing you said but here is a couple points to ponder.

    You said “Jefferson and Madison might have felt differently if psychopaths were regularly taking flintlock rifles into shopping malls and blowing away 12 teenagers at the food court”.

    Name one case where a “flintlock rifle” was used in a shopping mall shooting.
    Psychopaths are not allowed to own guns which endorses the true statement “when guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
    If more people were armed you would never see a shooting in a public place. Look up the stats where there are liberal guns laws, public shootings are nonexistent as well as any gun violence.
    It is estimated there is 4.7 guns in the world for every man women and child. Good luck in rounding them all up.

    You said, “The Second Amendment has long been a subject of controversy because of its vague wording. It states, “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

    Please explain what is vague about this statement? I can’t think of any statement being more forthright than that.

  • The phrase ” well regulated ..” is hopelessly inaccessable to the Bush administration. We are going to have to either lower our constitutional standards or raise our presidential qualifications.

  • Certainly this is an excellent proposal. Yet, Who is going to put themselves in the front of such a proposal… Who?

  • Re #2 – repealing the 2d Amendment would not in any way, by itself, result in the criminalization of gun ownership. If the Constitution is silent toward firearms, the presumption is that they are legal – but the states and federal government would now be much more free to enact reasonable regulations without a challenge to those regulations as an infringement of the underlying “right” to bear arms.

    As Martin notes, however, being free to enact sane regulation (i.e. no armor piercing bullets until someone shows me proof they confronted an armor-wearing deer) is very different from actually getting it done. The NRA has been wildly successful despite truly stupid arguments. The right-wing gun nuts (I can say that – I own guns) argue that a right to firearms is critical to protect individuals from an oppressive government. The best way to show the nonsense of this would be to try and purchase an F-14 (the government quit using them, so they have some to spare!), an Abrams tank, a Predator drone, and RPG launcher or a small nuclear warhead. When turned away, bring a 2d Amendment case and see how you do. Because if “arms” in the 2d Amendment means simply hand-held weapons using munitions that are not independently propelled and do not deliver an explosive charge, they are utterly useless in defending one’s self from the tools of oppression available to a modern government.

    The real issue is that, properly cared for an used, guns can be valuable for hunting, sport, and (setting aside arguments over their efficacy versus their unintended harm) small-scale home defense. A sane law would focus on (a) what is justifiably allowed for these purposes and these purposes only, and (b) would require testing, registration, updated testing and registration, (c) strong safety regulations (trigger locks), and (d) massive liability for mishandling, misuse, or failure to properly secure the weapons. It would also strictly control the chain of distribution. And obviously it would exclude things like massive clips, teflon-coated bullets, and extreme concealability. And it may mean that gun laws would be quite different in dense, urban, high-crime areas than in rural woodlands where hunting would be more reasonable and crime is less a problem.

    This rationalization of gun laws, without criminalizing all gun ownership, would be facilitated (and indeed is likely only possible) if the 2d Amendment either goes away or is definitively limited by the US Sup Ct. But then we’d still have to overcome the NRA.

  • Mike, I hope you are being sarcastic and I’m just not getting it. You can’t seriously be asking — since you seem to be using English adequately — what is ambiguous about the 2d Amendment. In that short, small set of words it refers to group rights (the initial subject is a militia) and, argubaly, individual rights – although “the People” is arguably a group right as well and not one for each person. Then, it refers to limits rights (“well-regulated”) and unlimited rights “shall not be infringed”). It speaks to a specific purpose – the secutiry of the State – which may not be consistent with unlimited individual rights, but which also may take away federal powers (which would be a reasonable interpretation prior to the 14th Amendment being interpreted to incorporate the Bill of Rights against the states). Finally, as my example of the armaments of modern warfare above shows, if there was ever a case where originalistic interpretation is pointless it is the 2d Amendment. There are good arguments on both sides as to what the Framers intent would have been given the history of the times and the writings at the times, but nothing could have contemplated the evolution of “arms” or of the power of the State or the challenges both states and individuals may face both from guns and which may be addressed by guns.

    In short, there is ambiguity galore for anyone not blinded by a testosterone-poisoning-induced pro-gun hysteria to see at a glance.

  • Morbo, you will take away my gun only when you can pry it from my own dead cold fingers, a state I will enter before you arrive by some other gun-nut shooting me or me shooting myself by accident.

  • Who needs guns to protect your family and property when you can depend on the onmipotus, and ALWAYS benign, power of the state comrad?

  • I want my own NUCLEAR BOMB!!!!

    Why should I have to defend my life and my family with simple things like handguns and hunting rifles.

    I already own 35 handguns, 60 rifles, 10 machine guns, and a number of anti tank missles but I still think that I can’t properly defend my home and family.

    I want tactical nuclear weapons.

    I think it is my constituional right. How dare some dumb-ass justice say it is OK for me to own this type of gun but not that kind of gun. How dare they draw a line on what I can use to protect myself.

    I have never broken any law.

    I want my nuclear bomb.

    Come on everyone.

    Sign my petition

    The undersigned want some crazy idiot who posts on a blog to be able to legally own as many nuclear bombs as necessary to protect his home and family

    NEIL WILSON

  • Once you decide to fuck with the Constitution you might as well repeal all of it. Sounds like a totally irresponsible approach. You don’t like Amendment 2? Good-I don’t like 1 & 4; let’s get rid of all of them.

  • barrelhse, i’m always a little concerned about such things as well, but you do have to admit there is more than a little irony in complaining about the risk of “fucking with the Constitution” when you are defending an Amendment — i.e. a prior instance of fucking with the Constitution. We’ve had 27 of ’em, some reasonably recent, and the country hasn’t fallen apart, hell hasn’t frozen over, and the world still turns on its axis. “Fucking with the Constitution” is what BushCo does when it it simply ignores or violates it without changing it first. The Constitution itself provides a process (difficult, properly) for amendments. Can following a Constitutional process really be considered “fucking with the Constitution”? If people don’t like Morbo’s idea, they can reject it as part of the process. If people want to eliminate the 1st and 4th, they can try, too, and likely fail.

  • Maybe this already has been said in the comments section, and I know it’s been said many times elsewhere, but I don’t understand what is so vague about the wording of the 2nd Amendment. Sure, it’s written in 18th century English, which is somewhat different than our modern day speech, but come on. The comma halfway through the sentence separates two clauses, each of which asserts an important point. Broken down they look like this: “A well regulated militia is necessary for the health of the nation. (That being true), the right to bear arms shall not be infringed.”
    In the original language, the part in parentheses is implied in the first clause.

    The second clause stands completely alone from the first. It simply states the right which cannot be infringed. The first clause states the reason for the second clause, but it does not provide any sort of contigency for its repeal. The amendment does not grant the right to bear arms, it simply protects and guarantees it.

    I disagree with the thrust of your post, but I don’t have a problem with anyone saying it. But the vagueness argument doesn’t hold water. I wish people would take some syntax lessons before trying to parse words.

  • First…lets make sure that we get the text of the amendment correct:

    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Note the first (originally missing) comma; it is important. It makes the phrase “being necessary to the security of a free state” a dependent clause: a present participial phrase at that. This means it serves as an adjective modifying the noun, “militia”. The next phrase is the same: “the right of the people to keep and bear arms” is also a dependent clause acting as an adjective and modifying “militia”.

    As we all learned, a sentence is still complete even when all dependent clauses are removed. Thus, the thought described by the 2nd amendment can be considered to be simply

    A well regulated militia shall not be infringed.

    And the meaning of militia, according to the author at least, encompasses the idea of 1) being necessary for a free people, and 2) synonymous with the right to bear arms.

    Now we can argue what a militia means. And what it means to be well-regulated. I’d suggest, based on the amount of power Congress has squeezed out of its other Art 1, section 8 enumerated powers, quite a lot.

  • I’m sensing a confusion between “amending the Constitution” and “repealing an amendment.” As I understand it, once an amendment is ratified, it becomes an integral part of the Constitution, so referring to an “amendment” by title or number seems merely a convenient way of locating it within the larger document. It’s all the Constitution.

    There is no such thing as “repealing an amendment,” only adding another amendment that might have the effect of repealing an existing part of the Constitution. The new amendment could simply nullify provisions within the existing Constitution (effectively, a repeal such as happened with Prohibition) or it might modify provisions within the document, extending, restricting or clarifying rights.

    In the case of the former (“repeal”), all rights outlined in the 2nd would revert to the states resulting in a free-for-all mess. In the case of the latter (modification or clarification), some rights might be preserved (reasonable hunting, self-defense and a National Guard) while others could specifically limited (armor piercing rounds), and some expanded (some local discretion).

    I think the kind of amendment we’re really talking about here is one that modifies, not one that really “repeals.”

    (BTW, if anyone really thinks the right to bear arms means you can overthrow the government, be forewarned that exercising that right will prove detrimental to your health).

  • Neil Wilson # 11, where did you get the anti tank missiles? I’d really like to have some of them. I like to sit out on my front porch in the evening until it is ruined by some dude cruising by with his boom box jacked up enough to vibrate my house to the point of coming apart. That’s when I think, man if only I had an RPG…..

  • Do you really think that progressives will see any of their progressive goals met, if we suddenly take on a fight to repeal the 2nd amendment?

    What a lovely rallying cry for the right. The left is trying to destroy our Constitution, so vote for a conservative whack job and you’ll be safe.

    And I’m going to assume you’re generally a supporter of the Bill of Rights.

    Do you really think there would be no consequences if, remarkably, the left were able to win that fight? Which amendment would the right decide to tackle to get rid of pesky liberal values entrenched in the Bill of Rights? Maybe freedom of speech?

    Admit it, you’re just tossing this out to be provocative. Because I can’t believe you really think that this would be the best way for progressives to turn gun control into a reality and to get their larger agenda enacted.

  • Good luck getting this amendment through.

    To my mind, the second amendment has always been a non sequitur. It cites a demonstrably false premise and then gives a vague proscription (Which arms? Flintlocks? Single shot pistols? Revolvers? Shotguns? RPG’s?) whose practical meaning would be debatable even aside from the premise. It’s as if you had a rule saying, “Given that the moon is made of green cheese, all astronauts traveling there shall be required to bring their own fork.”

    Politically, though, it’s a nonstarter. You can see on this thread the way it pushes emotional buttons, and brings out hordes of idiots who imagine themselves as latter-day Davy Crocketts bravely defending the homestead from the injuns or something. (As an example, there’s a hilarious thread over at Majikthise with some guy vowing to mow down all the barbarians waiting outside his door wanting to steal his daddy’s guitar.) Getting the constitution amended is hard enough even when there’s a rough consensus. On this issue it’ll never happen.

  • This essay presents a very thought-provoking idea, to be sure.

    I think, however, that it might be more practical to leave the Second Amendment alone. Instead of eliminating the Second Amendment, create a new amendment that would say:

    “No provision of this Constitution shall be interpreted to infringe the right of federal or state legislators to enact laws regulating or restricting the possession or use of arms by individual persons who are not in lawful military service.”

    Such an amendment would curb the ability of gun zealots to snooker the public as to the constitutionality of gun laws. It would leave the Second Amendment to fulfill its original purpose, the continuation and effectiveness of state militias — the purpose confirmed by the U.S. Supreme Court in U.S. v. Miller, 1939.

  • This is just a really stupid idea.

    The whole purpose of the Second Amendment is for citizens to protect the nation from tyranny.

    Imagine what the Bush administration (and other even more despotic successors) would try to pull if they knew that Americans had been disarmed.

    And the “militia” means the people, see George Mason, June 1, 1788, “I ask, Who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”

    The government hardly needed to give itself permission to raise an armed militia.

    The Bill of Rights enumerates individual rights.

  • The problem isn’t the Second Amendment; it’s interest-group politics within a corrupt, or at least corruptible, system. Break the NRA’s political power and the Second Amendment is fine, and will be interpreted in a more sensible manner.

    “They’re trying to take away our guns!” is not a winner for Democrats, and likely never will be. And frankly, though I don’t own a gun and have no plans to do so, I don’t have a problem with people who do, provided they obey the law.

  • It’s not the arms — which are dead, inert things — it’s the control of the arms that’s at issue.

    The “well regulated militia” that is “necessary to the security of a free state” should be the well-regulated militia that is controlled by the state. The apparent vagueness in this respect in the 2nd Amendment arose, as Morbo indicates, from the historical fact that the state’s “well regulated militia” depended entirely on the armaments that soldiers already carried and owned independently. Gathering these weapons into a state-owned arsenal would have solved this problem. It didn’t happen, so the problem persists.

    It is not possible for the state to completely fulfil its obligations to the security of the citizens as long as free, universal, independent ownership — and hence control — of weapons exists. So the first part of the 2nd Amendment that evinces a security obligation on the part of the state is in conflict with the second part that sanctions free independent control of the means of meeting that obligation. Basically, the two halves of the amendment are incompatible.

    There is an additional confusion in that the Amendment does not specify whether the threat to “security” is from outside or inside. In the old days, it was probably construed to refer to an external threat. Nowadays, the interpretation of “security” has shifted, tacitly perhaps, to the sense of a predominantly internal threat, in terms of public order, etc.

    For a Constitution to be effective it has to be revered as highly sacrosanct. Meddling with it is a very delicate matter, as is well understood. In the case of this 2nd Amendment, Morbo has put his finger on the exact justification for revision, namely an overriding historical imperative that no longer applies.

    The significance of this change, however, is not in the technology of weapons, it is in the power of the state to control its weapons.

  • “The Founding Fathers could not have foreseen the rise of urban metropolises or the rapid escalation in firepower that today enables a deranged malcontent to mow down dozens of people with an assault rifle. We should not hesitate to admit that times have changed and ditch a constitutional provision that no longer serves any useful purpose.”

    Ironically your reasoning is the same used by Gingrich in his speech about changing/repealing the first admendment.

    “It is time to quit trying to reconcile our need for a sane gun policy with the antiquated language of the Second Amendment.”

    I would love to hear what you consider “a sane gun policy”.

    “Once this is done, federal, state and local gun laws can then take whatever form the people want through their elected representatives. A sparsely populated, largely rural state like Wyoming may choose relatively few gun controls. The urban areas of the East Coast would likely adopt tighter laws.”

    Yet this is exactly the process that has produced what you implied was an “insane gun policy”. For example most big cities have much stricter gun control policies then at the state level. The East Coast cities already have some of the strictest gun control laws in the country (check out washington DC’s laws and it’s crime rate).

    “As Martin notes, however, being free to enact sane regulation (i.e. no armor piercing bullets until someone shows me proof they confronted an armor-wearing deer) is very different from actually getting it done. The NRA has been wildly successful despite truly stupid arguments. The right-wing gun nuts (I can say that – I own guns) argue that a right to firearms is critical to protect individuals from an oppressive government. The best way to show the nonsense of this would be to try and purchase an F-14 (the government quit using them, so they have some to spare!), an Abrams tank, a Predator drone, and RPG launcher or a small nuclear warhead. When turned away, bring a 2d Amendment case and see how you do. Because if “arms” in the 2d Amendment means simply hand-held weapons using munitions that are not independently propelled and do not deliver an explosive charge, they are utterly useless in defending one’s self from the tools of oppression available to a modern government.”

    The funny thing is armor piercing bullets are almost always illegal (I don’t know of a legal method of procuring them). People have already tried doing what you suggest except they really wanted the weapon system in question. THere are far more laws governing weapon sales then you seem to be aware of buddy (unless your a foreign country like Iran).

  • #13 zeitgeist- While I was being sarcastic, you’ve made good points, all well taken.

  • Regarding the notion that the people need a protection of their means to resist an oppressive government, I believe that in today’s world we, the people, are more threatened by the unholy alliance between big business and government than a loss of the right to have handguns & rifles would be.

    Having said that, I think the points made about warplanes and other sophisticated weaponry, as well as the points made about sensible regulation are good. We need to have sensible regulation. To the extent that the NRA (and their trumpeting of the 2nd amendment to resist regulation) are obastacles to our society’s sane management of firearms, it would be nice if they could be weakened. I’m not sure repealing Amendment #2 would accomplish that.

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