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John, Cindy, and the Miss Buffalo Chip Beauty Pageant

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Call it a hunch, but I don’t think John McCain’s remarks at a biker rally in Sturgis, South Dakota, yesterday are going to help him win over women voters.

McCain felt so comfortable at the event that he even volunteered his wife for the rally’s traditional beauty pageant, an infamously debauched event that’s been known to feature topless women.

“I encouraged Cindy to compete,” McCain said to cheers. “I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as first lady and Miss Buffalo Chip.”

In this case, it wasn’t just a question of feeling “comfortable” — McCain read these comments from a prepared text, as the video shows.

And what is the Miss Buffalo Chip Beauty Pageant? I’m glad you asked.

This description from ESPN seems to summarize the event nicely:

Buffalo Chip has a reputation for that sort of thing. It holds a Miss Buffalo Chip contest every night, which is essentially a topless beauty pageant. And occasionally bottomless, too. During a drenching rain Wednesday night, the contest broke up into smaller groups and one woman wound up dancing naked on a bar top. Her boyfriend/husband saw her and angrily dragged her away as she struggled to put her pants back on and muttered something about how, “It’s only this one week a year.”

Josh Marshall added:
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/207172.php

We wanted to show you a bit more of what the contest is like. Unfortunately, we were worried that posting the videos could lead to TPM being banned from many corporate intranets. So we’re going to link to this video of the Bikini phase of the contest, complete with simulated fellatio and banana coddling. There’s also this Sturgis ‘pickle-licking’ contest. But we’re not sure if that’s part of the Beauty Pageant or not.

That John McCain, what a classy guy.

Comments

  • joepa

    says:

    The GOP’s ability to capitalize on the average person’s annoyance with this kind of hypersensitive political correctness was one of the reasons why both Gore and Kerry lost.
    Clinton won because clearly he had a sense of humor and proportion. He could have made this joke and Hillary would have laughed.

    So keep up with this garbage and finding phallic symbols in commercials and watch Obama go down in flames.

    You are doing the GOP’s work for them.

  • Karl Rove

    says:

    If Obama had done this his old lady (Sturgis vernacular) would have kicked his ass on the spot, anf he knows it, the wuss; but Cindy is a good Republican spouse. And we Republicans would have made mucho hay of this incident.

    Watch what the dems do. Nothing! Nudda! Not squat! Reopub licans fight. Republicans win. Democrats roll over. Democrats lose.

    LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

  • thorin-1

    says:

    Yes but a ‘highbrow’ ‘elitist’ ‘arrogant’ ‘fancy lettuce eating’ guy like Obama would NEVER go to such an event. So therefore this proves McCain is more of the ‘everyman’ ‘guy you’d have a beer with’ than Obama.

    He’s just one of the guys. It reinforces his ‘maverick’ status.

    Don’t forget this is one of reasons people said they voted for Bush.

    On another note, how exactly does this event jibe with ‘family values’?

  • Nancy

    says:

    Sadly, #6, you’re right. Grandpa McBush’s supporters DO think Ms. Buffalo Chip is cool, interesting, and funny. And these supporters think they are “one of the guys.”

  • ROTFLMLiberalAO

    says:

    Joepa: So keep up with this garbage and finding phallic symbols in commercials and watch Obama go down in flames. You are doing the GOP’s work for them.

    Sour pussy. Don’t be such a chip off the old buffalo bro.
    Have some fun. Party dude, repug style:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVQHJd_3J7g

  • Winkandanod

    says:

    “I encouraged my ol’ lady Mrs. McCunt to compete,” McCain said to cheers. “I told her with a little luck she could be the only woman ever to serve as first cunt and Miss Buffalo Chip.”

    I’m gonna enter her into the tire gauge sucking contest.

  • MsMuddled

    says:

    Well maybe they *didn’t know* what the contest was, but everyone knows a buffalo chip’s a pile of shit. Cindy must’ve had an enormous botox dose earlier to avoid cringing.

    McCain’s just creepy.

  • BuzzMon

    says:

    Hey – give us some links to Focus on the Family, The 700 Club, etc, so we can “inform” them about the Republican candidate pimping out his wife.

    And joepa – go Cheney yourself

  • ROTFLMLiberalAO

    says:

    Addendum:

    Good campaign idea: Maybe Cindy could use a tire gauge instead of a banana!
    Brilliant!

  • joepa

    says:

    I am so impressed with the deep thought and discussion on this board. Especially Winkandanod who makes it clear he just loves any opportunity to use obnoxious offensive words while pretending to complain about other people.

    I’m sure you are all the same people who laughed when Penn of Penn & Teller and Ludicrus called Hillary a bitch and then attacked the Republicans and women in general for being without a sense of humor.
    Hypocrisy its a beautiful thing when you are a sophomoric idiot.

  • lou

    says:

    Tailhookers on bikes.

    John came down from the campaign when he is 71 and he wants to be 25. Shit, don’t all of us? We can only be young once but we can be irresponsible out entire lives.

    But we got crude in the white house now. Damn ain’t we havin’ a freakin’ ball!

  • Detroit Daniel

    says:

    Steve, You should be on the Obama campaign team. At any rate, I hope they at least check you out each day. Your work reminds of the Clinton rapid response team in 1992. Read about it here (an article written in August 1992)…

  • SHI

    says:

    It’s so fun to be discussing the serious problems facing this country! Tire gauges, light bulbs & buffalo chips rule the day. If the country wants frivolous, the Rethugs win hands down every time. They own frivolous and indeed, I think that’s what the good ‘ol USA wants (i.e. BUSH)….
    I think I want to write in Randy Newman for Prez.

  • Winkandanod

    says:

    joepa:

    I’m not the one running for president. I’m also not the one trying to appeal to bikers between the pickle-lickin contest and whoring out my trophy wife.

    By the way, not to be obnoxious or offensive but, did you hear the one about why Chelsea Clinton is so ugly?

    No?

    Well, go ask McCain’t.

  • joepa

    says:

    Again using words like “whoring out your trophy wife” undercuts your point and any legitimate claim that you have that you think a euphemism is over the top and offensive.

    Practice what you preach or stop preaching.

  • Dale

    says:

    McCain sez, “Have you seen any naked pictures of my wife? Do you want to?”

    I wonder how many “real Americans” ride in motorcycle gangs? These ain’t NASCAR dads. Who in the heck is picking his campaign events? Out of touch.

  • Dennis_D

    says:

    McCain didn’t really mean to volunteer his wife for a topless beauty pageant. McCain is too honorable and decent of a man to do such a thing. The evil aliens/campaign managers zapped him with their mind control ray and made him say that.

  • ScottW

    says:

    Who cares, McCain sucking up to voters by using Cindy is nothing new, he’s been doing it for years. So I guess the insinuation of nudity is what you have a problem with ? Or is it the blaring hypocrisy that the right divulges in every day ? I guess I just don’t see the point except maybe to prove that your readers are just as juvenile as TweedyBird.

    Personally, I would file this in the Britney folder (garbage), because there is absolutely no point except to entertain and I find it rich coming from someone who criticizes the media for the exact same non-sense.

    Make up your mind, is a story like this pure garbage or news worthy ?

  • SHI

    says:

    @19 – Randy is the best – check out Harps & Angels…I think Obama needs him for VP.
    Alfred E. – it’s a mad, mad, mad world!

  • ROTFLMLiberalAO

    says:

    Joepa: The GOP’s ability to capitalize on the average person’s annoyance with this kind of hypersensitive political correctness was one of the reasons why both Gore and Kerry lost.

    This argument is only valid if you can state unequivocally that if Obama was at that rally with Michelle, and said McCain’s words verbaitim, it wouldn’t be THE issue that killed his candidacy immediately. He’d be lynched for the same performance. Posthaste.

    Joepa: Clinton won because clearly he had a sense of humor and proportion. He could have made this joke and Hillary would have laughed.

    Don’t preach what you don’t practice. Sit back, laugh and enjoy the McShow.
    I certainly am: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVQHJd_3J7g

    [Insert raucous McBiker wolf whistles here.]

  • Winkandanod

    says:

    joepa:

    I’m proud of the issues that I have been trying to address with the (celebrity) American people.

    All I can say is that I’m proud of these comments. I think (presumptuous) Americans need to know that I believe that we should base this discourse on what we can do for (drill) Americans here at home and how we can make (tax increase) America stay prosperous and that’s the theme of my (inflate tires) comments.

  • Charles

    says:

    The Sturgis rally is the mother lode of low-information voters. Every low-life with a chopper in the eight-state region will be in attendance. Joepa ought really to attend it, or even just stay in a nearby city while it’s going on in order to get informed. I used to live in the Black Hills, and the more intelligent locals avoid the roads, bars, and the Sturgis area during the rally. Knife fights every night, the incidence of STD’s experiences a violent bump, and general hooliganism goes off the charts.

  • joepa

    says:

    Hypothethicals about how Obama would have been treated are just that speculative pre-determined hypotheticals that are evidence of nothing but the fact that you have no other argument.
    I can’t disprove what you have decided to believe with no evidence. It would be effective as arguing that Atlas Shrugged is a boring polemic to those true believers.

    I do know that many people saw Obama and his supporters in both the campaign and the media making denigrating and sexist comments about Hillary and many of you who are now making a big deal about this had no problem with it and indeed cheered it on.

    I also agree with ScottW that it is ridiculous to complain about the triviality of the McCain ads while pushing the same type of idiotic triviality

  • joepa

    says:

    And before you start continue the attack on motorcyclists as lowlifes needlessly denigrating another group, learn some facts:

    * Nearly one in 10 motorcyclists is a woman.

    • From 1998 to 2003, there was a 36 percent increase in female motorcycle owners in the United States.

    • In 2003, there were approximately 6.6 million motorcycle owners in the United States. Of that number, approximately 635,000 were women.

    • Nearly 60 percent of female motorcyclists are married.

    • Twenty-eight percent of female motorcyclists have a college or post-graduate degree.

    Source: The Motorcycle Industry Council’s household survey

  • ROTFLMLiberalAO

    says:

    I also agree with ScottW that it is ridiculous to complain about the triviality of the McCain ads while pushing the same type of idiotic triviality

    Who is complaining about McCain in S. Dakota?
    I think it is wonderful that he wants to whore his wife out to cock-and-puss sex show.
    [Insert ribald wolf whistles here.]
    I hope he does it everyday from here on out.
    I think it is great family values message. Very progressive Christian.
    If anything this country needs more raunch.
    Indeed, if McCain “keeps it up” he might just get my vote.

  • Mick

    says:

    The GOP’s ability to capitalize on the average person’s annoyance with this kind of hypersensitive political correctness was one of the reasons why both Gore and Kerry lost.
    Clinton won because clearly he had a sense of humor and proportion. He could have made this joke and Hillary would have laughed.

    So keep up with this garbage and finding phallic symbols in commercials and watch Obama go down in flames.

    You are doing the GOP’s work for them.

    /signed

  • slappy magoo

    says:

    John Dice McCain.
    Vote for me ‘n you kin see mah wife’s tig ol’ bitties.

    Honestly, this might be elitism on my part, but it doesn’t bother me all that much. I can’t imagine Obama winning over this group…AS a group. Take these individuals & put them in other groups in which they might align – unions or truckers or even family groups where inflation & healthcare & fuel prices really matter – Obama’s got a shot. But THAT group? On THAT day? A preacher in a strip club would get a warmer reception than Obama at a gathering like that.

  • Charles

    says:

    Joepa,

    “Motorcycle rider” is not synonymous with “low-life with a chopper” in my mind.

    One wonders why you think they are.

  • Lew Scannon

    says:

    What’s the difference between bikers and John McCain?
    Bikers haven’t changed their look in over fifty years.
    John McCain changes his position on issues every fifty minutes.

  • joepa

    says:

    Charles

    I was responding to your comment at 29 and some others. Reread what you wrote if you don’t think you were at least implyng that you made such a connection. You were.

  • 2Manchu

    says:

    I hate to be critical of McCain’s decision to attend a biker rally, and his joking about Cindy entering a contest where contestants go topless and perform sexual acts on fruits and vegetables.

    But if you’re a presidential candidate, and you’re in the Black Hills, wouldn’t it play better on television if you concentrated your visit at another famous location in that region?

    Say, oh I don’t know, a certain national monument?

  • Maria

    says:

    I’m confused by joepa’s samba-ing goalposts. Are the Clintons shining examples of who can take a gender-specific sexual joke and demonstrate a great sense of humor, or are they cruelly treated victims of gender-specific jokes and mean-spirited claims that they don’t have a sense of humor?

  • jen f

    says:

    joepa is trying to encourage the enlightened left wing to treat women – all women – with an iota of respect. We consistently berate the right for ridiculing the intelligence and grace of Obama yet on these blogs women are constantly reduced to their physical attributes and pejorative terms. It’s the same activity. Dehumanize your opposition.

    I suspect I would intensely dislike Cindi McCain if I had the misfortune of meeting her, but no one deserves being dehumanized.

  • Charles

    says:

    Jen_f,

    Go view that video, see how women are treated at the Sturgis rally, and then come back and tell us how we “dehumanize” women here.

  • Bruno

    says:

    I think that Obama should not mock McCain for making the reference. I believe that McCain didn’t realize it had some raunchy parts to it (banana act, etc) and topless modeling.

    BUT

    Obama could use the event, to highlight that McCain was pandering to a group of people, once again. He obviously did not do any research, on this group of people who happen to gather in Sturges every year.

    One of his campaign aides saw a flyer that mentioned “Miss Buffalo Pageant” and bingo – time to insert a joke and show that you’re one of the guys. Little did they know.

    Do you want someone to be President who doesn’t bother finding out what is really going on, and then joking about something, not realizing what it is all about? I idon’t

  • zeitgeist

    says:

    jen f, if that is joepa’s point – and i dont believe it is – you are both wildly misunderstanding this thread.

    we are defending women by slamming on McCain for his belittling of Cindy by crudely suggesting that his own wife participate in a very demeaning lets-see-how-cravenly-we-can-make-ourselves-objects-for-bikers’-kicks pageant.

    joepa, you, and ScottW too are missing the point by trying to compare this thread to our annoyance at the “Celeb” TV spot. The point here is hypocrisy: the candidate of the “family values” party at a den of hedonism. The candidate complaining about big crowds appearing before one. Etc.

  • Bruno

    says:

    Thank you zeitgeist for clarifying that to some of the new readers here who seem to complain about unequal party. (joepa – jen_f, etc…)

    It would be good to remind them once again – because they do have short memories – about how the media treated Democratic candidates:

    Hillary’s cleavage seemed to be more important than her policies. Or course shortly after that came Hillary’s emotionalmoment and the Republicans were falling over each other to point it out.That is, until she cackled and that was awful because it was so calculated.

    Should we mention Republicans wearing flip-flops to mock John Kerry, or the Purple Heart band-aids worn by Republicans to demean John Kerry’s war service.

    Let’s not forget John Edward’s $400 haircut, while Romney pays about the same amount, but didn’t get mentioned. Or that McCain’s shoes cost more than most peoples entire wardrobe, but again the media stays mum

    Oh, let’s not forget the tire gauges that Republicans are still having fun with.

    Do you remember Dean’s roar and how that got replied over and over again? The list goes on and on

    But please don’t point out any hypocritical behavior shown by Republicans. Why? Because it is innate to them and normal behavior, so we shouldn’t make fun of something that is a mental defect?

    As Lieberman said: “Relax, sit back and enjoy it” or McCain himself: “We’re just having some fun”

  • Steve

    says:

    One should remember that a topless biker babe in Sturgis is capable of remaining a topless biker babe for a longer period of time than McCain is capable of remaining on the same side of a political issue. Besides—the topless biker babe probably took one look at McCain and said, “That’s all you got? I’d rather do a tire gauge!”

  • Prup (aka Jim Benton)

    says:

    Obama doesn’t touch this. He won’t have to. This one is going to grow and grow, and, for the first time we can do something more than just write checks — especially those of us who are registered as Independents. All of us can get on Republican websites, particularly religious ones or ‘family-oriented, female-oriented’ ones, mention the story, mention the existence of videos from Sturgis on YouTube — of course, we would never actually give the cites (which will tempt them even more) — and ask how we could possibly support a candidate who could appear at this sort of event.

    The Independents among us, or unaffiliated, can write the local Republican organization, or the offices of those people who are already delegates, and do the same thing.

    This one is not going away, and is only going to build, as long as we don’t make it look like something that Democrats are ‘pushing.’ Let the Republicans start their own revolt — and they will — just nudge them a little.

    Writing letters to newspapers and blogs doing the same thing will also be useful.

    (Personal prediction, when the Republican Convention tries to make the vote for McCain unanimous, it will fail, by at least a hundred votes — not counting the Paulistas.)

    Understand something, I may be one of the most pro-sex people on this blog, but I was offended at this — and I am not pretending offense. This is simply ugly, and there is no way that McCain can get out of it except by, once again, claiming he didn’t know what he was doing — which again can be used against him.

  • daniel rotter

    says:

    I don’t understand joepa’s #31 comment. Since when does being a woman with a college or post-graduate degree automatically mean that one is not a lowlife? Since when does being a woman in general automatically mean that one is not a lowlife? What only men can be lowlifes?

  • Prup (aka Jim Benton)

    says:

    jen f: “yet on these blogs women are constantly reduced to their physical attributes and pejorative terms” Huh????

    The only time I can recall anyone using a pejorative term towards women here is when they were quoting John McCain — and the use of the term in his name (which I have never joined in on and have protested against) is referring to his own use of the term about his own wife.

    It is McCain who has used the disgusting joke about Chelsea — I’m still not sure about the ape joke — and we have been the ones who have protested at the MSM’s fascination with Hillary’s cleavage.

  • libra

    says:

    I wonder how many “real Americans” ride in motorcycle gangs? These ain’t NASCAR dads. Who in the heck is picking his campaign events? — Dale, @22

    Dale, this was a bike RALLY. A rally means lots of people (see: Obama rally in… well… almost anywhere). Since McCain himself is unable to attract large crowds (even when there’s a concert beforehand; see Rich’s performance over the weekend. Attracted *hundreds*), McCain’s campaign *has to* resort to using whatever crowds are already there, as a background. Would you have him talk to 3 people in front of a shredded cheese and frozen juice shelf in places like Bethlehem (PA, not Israel) instead? Or 5 in front of the Fudge House? Give his campaign some credit for creativity.

    As for the contest itself… My *main* objection to what McCain said there is that I’ve always hated to *be* “volunteered”. For anything — from working in the factory over the summer (my government “volunteered” me) to baking, on short notice, cookies for a group of 22 kids (my son “volunteered” me but forgot to tell me, till 4 hrs before the event. There were not enough materials on hand in the house and I didn’t, yet, drive. He was 6 at the time and that was the only time he made that mistake).

    As Miss Muddled, @12, pointed out, a “Buffalo Chip” is a piece of — dried out — BS, good only for tossing onto a fire. *The least* McCain should have done was to volunteer himself, not his wife, since he *is* a Buffalo Chip already and would have won, pants down.

  • Bruno

    says:

    Prup @ 47 said:

    This is simply ugly, and there is no way that McCain can get out of it except by, once again, claiming he didn’t know what he was doing — which again can be used against him.

    That was exactly my point as well in an earlier post on the subject. I hope Obama does not mention it, other than insinuate that maybe McCain was not familiar with what the ‘pageant’ was actaully about. Either way it will be bad for McCain.

    Either he knew about what the event was about, which is bad for his base.
    or
    He didn’t know what it was about, which means he didn’t plan, and is bad for America.

    Hmmm tough choice for the McCain Camp. It will be interesting ‘how’ Schmidt will spin that one

  • Sarinda

    says:

    McCain operating on limited knowledge made a small joke that is really tasteless only if you add in information that no one believes he actually had about the exact nature of the beauty pageant.. His obvious intent was to compliment his wife as attractive. Who cares? It really is nothing but a trivial garbage issue (more so than the ones you guys constantly complain about)
    What I really don’t get though is how people who claim they are offended by this remark at the same time have no problem calling Cindy McCain repeated offensive names and essentially acting like 12 year olds thinking its cool to curse. That is not respectful to her nor any woman and just shows your offense is manufactured for partisan purposes. Indeed it is much more offensive than McCain’s comments today.
    And its really grating that many of those claiming offense are the same people who defended Rev. Wrights graphic sexual insults to the Clintons and Ludicrus bitch comments as totally acceptable and further denied that other such type of remarks during the primary by Obama’s supporters represented misogyny.
    Further denigrating as STD carrying lowlifes some adult women who chose to participate in a silly show because they are comfortable with their sexuality is equally intolerant and offensive. Women just like man are free to act sleazy if they want. and shouldn’t be denigrated by those with madonna/whore complexes.

    Before you denounce hypocrisy, many of you should realize that you are engaging in it.
    Otherwise this blog will become like this thread- pitiful offensive and showcasing the worst of Obama’s supporters.

  • Hannah

    says:

    Amazing that Cindy McCain, apparently a classy woman, would not be offended by her husband’s suggestion, since she smiled and waved at the crowd after he made it. (Maybe she doesn’t know what is expected from women in the contest…?)

    But then I started thinking, maybe Cindy is just being a good businesswoman! Bikers drink BEER, yes, and lots of it! Smile and wave, look beautiful, and those bikers will buy more of my BEER!

  • zeitgeist

    says:

    nice of you to drop by Sarinda, but you should hang out a while before spouting nonsense. find a single comment by anyone here defending Ludacris’ song.

    i’ll wait.

  • Charles

    says:

    Sarinda,

    The spikes in STD transmission that coincide with the Sturgis rally aren’t from women only. Nor only men. It’s not everybody. It’s not even a majority that “goes wild,” but there’s enough of the attendees that do to make the whole affair something a lot of the locals dread.

    McCain can’t be so uninformed as you seem to be willing to believe. You can’t hear about the Sturgis rally without hearing about what goes on. Ask anybody from that area, and they’ll tell you.

  • Bruno

    says:

    Moralizing Sarinda said:

    Before you denounce hypocrisy, many of you should realize that you are engaging in it.

    Sarinda; you are missing the point. Most of the people blogging here are open minded enough that ,although they might personally not approve of the behavior that goes on at Sturgis, they would still allow other adults to enjoy whatever they want.

    As pointed out before; McCain is unable to attract big crowds, like celebrity Obama can. Hence McCain’s need to go where the crowds are. Sturgis seemed as good as any.

    I agree that McCain probably had no idea what the pageant was about, and that Cindy was smart enough not to embarrass her husband in front of a crowd, and played along.

    BUT. The Republican Party’s platform specifically mentioned Family Values, and Christian believes, anti-gay, no same-sex marriage, pro-life, etc…

    Do you think that whatever happens in Sturgis is considered Family Values, according to the GOP platform?

    Now you have to question: What was on McCain’s mind to make that ‘prepared’ remark?
    – Pandering to a big crowd, since he usually doesn’t get that much attention? Sure that’s what some politicians would do, as McCain has shown over and over. BUT, he should stick to crowds that fit within what his very own party stands for.

    So. Let McCain go to the Mega churches and pander, which is in the GOP platform.
    Let McCain go to Military bases, since the GOP thinks they have a monopoly on patriotism. Let McCain hold a rally in front of an abortion clinic, since that would be very acceptable according to the GOP platform. Let McCain hold big fundraisers for the Big Oil executives, because the GOP is pretty much in bed with them. Let McCain go to Oklahoma and insist that the 10 commandments should be allowed in the court house, which is also something the GOP likes to accomplish. I can go on and on about what McCain wouldn’t have any problems with because it is approved by the GOP platform and reinforces their dogma.

    However: McCain should NOT be joking around at events that are not proper when it comes to Family Values. It doesn’t matter how opportunistic it is. There are plenty of hypocritical examples that can be listed as well here.

  • MsMuddled

    says:

    Jeff said:

    Cindy should have flashed the crowd. Would’ve gotten McCain a few votes….

    Then doused herself with a bucket full of Budweiser.

  • Maria

    says:

    Man, that John McCain, running his entire campaign singlehandedly, advancing his own events, writing his own speeches, with not a single other soul to do a little research on where he’s going, what will be happening there and what prepared remarks he’ll make about it.

    It would truly be churlish to mock such a hardworking man–a man alone, a man who nobly relies only on himself–for not knowing what goes on at this very special event, particularly in the Miss So-and-So contest.

  • zoe from pittsburgh

    says:

    I don’t understand the folks that are still stuck on the primary– it’s over. Obama won. What does it do for you that you’re still fighting that battle? That you’re still mad that Hillary lost? How can you not take a step back and look at your passions and think, “wow, I’m treating this election as though someone broke up with me and I’m really bitter about it.”

    C’mon already, this is about much bigger things than Hillary or what you perceived to be as slights against Hillary. If you really believe that Obama is sexist then you haven’t given his wife much of a thought, have you? Do you really think Michelle Obama would put up with him for a SECOND if he were?

  • tom_oftheplains@hotmail.com

    says:

    Joepa:

    “Hypothethicals about how Obama would have been treated are just that speculative pre-determined hypotheticals that are evidence of nothing but the fact that you have no other argument.”

    Okay, your words there. So, how do your words jive with… well, your words again…?

    “Clinton won because clearly he had a sense of humor and proportion. He could have made this joke and Hillary would have laughed.”

    Something about hypotheticals and whatnot? How you’re… lemme see… not supposed to make them? Or was that just a rule for democrats? I think I see why you’re such a McCain fan.

  • Tom Cleaver

    says:

    Ol’ Johnnie-boy is just an ignernt ol’ Nasal Radiator of his generation (think the Tail Hook scandal back in 1991 – the kind who should have been guest of honor at a single-fatality ramp strike 50 years ago when no one would have noticed.

  • Bruno

    says:

    Tom Cleaver You sure are a take-no-prisoners kind’a guy, especially when it comes to your fondness for McCain.

    I have to agree, the scenario you’re describing would certainly have solved the problem of us knowing what a ‘Straight Talk Express’ looks like.

    It’s funny in a not-funny way.

  • Tom Cleaver

    says:

    Actually, the article on this in today’s Los Angeles Times had several quotes from “bikers” attending the convention to the effect that they thought McCain was an idiot and were supporting Obama – including one guy with mid-back length white hair who was a 31-year military justice veteran and a civilian defense attorney.

    As someone who has known bikers going back to Terry the Tramp (who was in Hunter Thompson’s Hell’s Angels book) and Pat T, at the time retired vice president of the Oakland Angels (in whose company I always felt 100% safe, since no sane person would ever cross him, and he’d go over the clif for anyone he considered a friend), and who has had several other biker friends over the years who live lives you would never connect to the fact they are lifelong “outlaw bikers,”
    it’s my experience that liberals who put down bikers don’t know what the hell they’re talking about and never get past being shallow types who base decisions on looks alone.

    My bet would be that close to half that crowd would never vote for McCain if he paid them – and he’s too stupid to know it. Calling them ignorant Republicans demonstrates the shallow stupidity of the person making the claim.

    Did you know Jay Leno goes to Sturgis???

  • Joepa

    says:

    Tom
    In case you didn’t realize Bill Clinton did win and his persona as a Bubba is well recognized. From those facts I posited an opinion.
    A reading of my actual post will show that what I was criticizing was not opinions but speculative hypotheticals that have no basis in actual fact that are presented as undisputable truths. There is no comparison. Such unsupported hypotheticals are nothing but a meaningless Rhetorical game meant to be a distraction when the poster has no valid argument. As such those ‘undisputed truth’ hypos are rightfully ignored.
    But the ridiculousness of this whole thread is captured by Bruno at 59 who goes into a rant stereotyping whole groups of people as if they were all nothing but monolithic blocks unlike his oh so special unique self.
    The total lack of progressive values on this so called progressive blog- such as tolerance and respect of others-is really depressing.
    Stay blind and keep on feeling oh so proud of the echo chamber. One of these days some of you may realize by doing so you are aping Bush your worst enemy. Until then the only people you are hurting is Obama and yourselves.

  • William

    says:

    I’m sorry to say it but, “as if”! Ms. Buffalo shit or Mrs. McSame or of course, Miss Buffalo chip! Either way John, your straws are getting shorter and shorter. There is no reason why you should bounce your trollop out on stage for points when you’ve already lost, you worthless DICK!

  • sarinda

    says:

    Zoe at 62.
    This has nothing to do with Hillary. It has to do with misogyny and hypocrisy. The misogyny that doesn’t exist or is minimized when these posters are talking about any actions by Obama supporters or the media supporting him but now is oh so evident and offensive when it can be used against McCain. But notably half of those defenders just toss insults at Cindi rather than John Mccain and further objectify her by referencing her ‘titties’ and other body parts.
    Of course you can be like Bruno at 45 and falsely pretend that the sexist hatred spewed at Clinton came from the GOP but we all know it came from the Obama supporters – many of whom post here.
    Is Obama sexist -no. But many democrats are and that is a problem that I think should be addressed until it is eradicated if this party is to be worthwhile.
    You wouldn’t tell african americans to ignore or ”get over” racist comments . SO why do you denigrate women and men who raise sexism issues and note that is exactly what you did when you falsely characterized them as bitter women scorned.

  • zeitgeist

    says:

    wow, joepa and sarinda sure have a unique — and strangely similar – posting style. . . hmmm. . . .just sayin!

  • (: Tom :)

    says:

    14. On August 5th, 2008 at 5:05 pm, joepa said:

    I am so impressed with the deep thought and discussion on this board. Especially Winkandanod who makes it clear he just loves any opportunity to use obnoxious offensive words while pretending to complain about other people.

    I, too, am impressed by the faux outrage about the comments on this board from those who appear to be Republican’t stooges trolling a progressive blog, when any non-Republican’t voice strays one iota outside the bounds of civil discourse (as defined by those Republican’t stooges).

    Funny thing, though – I see much worse and more offensive statements on conservative blogs every day. Somehow I am guessing that you haven’t spent quite as much time on thiose blogs, chastising Republican’ts for their uncivilized demeanor…

    I’m sure you are all the same people who laughed when Penn of Penn & Teller and Ludicrus called Hillary a bitch and then attacked the Republicans and women in general for being without a sense of humor.

    Almost as sure as I am that you loved the Chelsea Clinton dog joke from Rush, and the Obama tire guage propaganda operation. Why, I could almost believe that you have one of those tire guages, and help others to get one of their very own!

    Hypocrisy its a beautiful thing when you are a sophomoric idiot.

    Republican’t Putsch fellators such as yourself would have an experienced viewpoint on the subjects of hypocrisy and sophomoric idiocy. The beauty of such exercises must be in the eye of the beholder, because it doesn’t look pretty to me at all.

    70. On August 6th, 2008 at 2:12 am, sarinda said:

    This has nothing to do with Hillary. It has to do with misogyny and hypocrisy.

    You mean like the misogyny involved with a Republican’t candidate for president offering up his aged beer baroness trophy wife for a lesbian sexfest in front of thousands of bikers? Or the hypocrisy of a Republican’t presidential candidate, who is supposedly a champion of family values, offering up his aged beer baroness trophy wife for a lesbian sexfest in front of thousands of bikers? Or are you, instead, focused on the supposed misogyny and hypocrisy of the commenters here (that seems to exist only in the fever dreams of Republican’t trolls)?

    The misogyny that doesn’t exist or is minimized when these posters are talking about any actions by Obama supporters or the media supporting him but now is oh so evident and offensive when it can be used against McCain.

    Funny how it only seems to be Republican’t trolls who are concerned with this sort of thing. Almost as though it’s one of those Republican’t talking points that they get their trolls to run with all over left-leaning blogs. I wonder why?

    But notably half of those defenders just toss insults at Cindi rather than John Mccain and further objectify her by referencing her ‘titties’ and other body parts.

    Here’s another funny thing – you seem to be awfully upset about a bunch of commenters on a liberal blog objectifying the wife of one of the presidential candidates. But I can’t seem to find the place where you made comments about the media doing the same thing to the other candidate’s wife in major media outlets for months. Why is that?

    ======

    Smarter brain dead ditto monkey Republican’t Putsch fellators, please…

  • Maria

    says:

    wow, joepa and sarinda sure have a unique — and strangely similar – posting style. . . hmmm. . . .just sayin!

    joepa, sarinda and wanda. Fairly pathetic, did she but realize it.

  • Joepa

    says:

    Wow. The most tired trope of this blog. If you can’t respond to an argument just call someone a republican stooge or troll.
    Its an amazing self protective mechanism. It allows you to deny any ideas you disagree with because you can just magically discount them. And hey if more then one person disagrees with you well just pretend they are the same person and you can go back to your little protected bubble. Denial its not just a river its a way of life for some people.
    Well hate to break the bubble Tom but I am a long term democrat and if you notice my problem is not with Obama but with his supporters. Supporters who are hurting his cause because they don’t understand that misogyny turns people off. Supporters who don’t understand that engaging in tit for tat trivialities against McCain undercuts any chance to elevate this election to a discussion of important policy issues.
    I would love to think these supporter errors don’t have any impact. Unfortunately idiots like Bob Herbert and Olberman listen and repeat your BS and end up affecting people’s opinions about Obama.
    Further your legitmate arguments fall on deaf ears when you wrap them in hypocrisy and trivia.
    You will not find any place on this blog where I praised McCain or defended republican tactics.
    I just pointed out that no one will listen to you complaining about tire guages when you waste time hyping a reference to Ms. Buffalo Chip.
    Especially when those references are like a lot of the posts above full of the misogyny that you are pretending to decry.

  • Maria

    says:

    And hey if more then one person disagrees with you well just pretend they are the same person

    But you are the same person. You know it. We know it. You’re in a hole, so why keep digging? Do you imagine that it helps your credibility?

  • Diogenes

    says:

    I’d be interested in comparing Joepa’s “statistics” with the general population.

    * Nearly one in 10 motorcyclists is a woman. – This obviously doesn’t match the general population, where women slightly outnumber men.

    • From 1998 to 2003, there was a 36 percent increase in female motorcycle owners in the United States. – Only useful if you know what the rate of increase in motorcycle owners in the overall U.S. population was. Really, a red herring.

    • In 2003, there were approximately 6.6 million motorcycle owners in the United States. Of that number, approximately 635,000 were women. – First point restated.

    • Nearly 60 percent of female motorcyclists are married. – 40% of all women in the U.S. are married. The fact that more motorcycle riding women are married suggests to me that many of them were drawn into the hobby by their husbands. This really just reinforces the idea the the hobby is male dominated, and that most of the women who are part of it are involved, at least in part, due to their husbands.

    • Twenty-eight percent of female motorcyclists have a college or post-graduate degree. This is a little trickier, since we don’t have the age demographic for the women in motorcycling. 31 percent of women 25-29 years of age in the U.S. have college or post-grad degrees. 26% of women over 25 in total have degrees. If the Motorcycle women trend younger, as I suspect they do, this doesn’t help your argument. However, even the best case scenario is only 2% points ahead, but then you’re also assuming that a similar number of your motorcycle women are 60 or older as in the general population, and I can’t really believe that.

    See, all these statistics don’t really support your basic premise that Sturgis is an upper-class, women-friendly event. They show the opposite, really. So why are you bringing them up, except to present them in a context free way to suggest that you are right? The source for mine were U.S. census, by the way.