Judge rejects lawsuit challenging Vegas caucus sites

It’s become quite a dispute in Democratic circles. The Nevada Democratic Party created “at-large” casino precincts about eight months ago, so that casino employees (most notably, members of the Culinary Workers Union) would be able to participate in the Democratic causes easily and conveniently. At the time, the Nevada Democratic Party said the precincts were designed for the “4,000 or more shift workers per site who could not otherwise take the time off to go to their home precincts.” The precincts were approved unanimously.

This wasn’t at all controversial until last week, when the Culinary Workers endorsed Barack Obama. After the union endorsement, the Nevada State Education Association, which is backing Hillary Clinton, filed suit, asking that the nine “at-large” precincts be eliminated altogether.

Today, a state court rejected the lawsuit.

Democrats with ties to Hillary Rodham Clinton failed in court Thursday to prevent casino workers from caucusing at special precincts in Nevada.

The ruling by U.S. District Court Judge James Mahan was presumed to be a boost for Clinton rival Barack Obama in the Democratic presidential caucuses Saturday because he has been endorsed by the union representing many of the shift workers who will be able to use the precincts on the Las Vegas strip.

“State Democrats have a First Amendment right to association, to assemble and to set their own rules,” Mahan said…. [Mahan added,] “We aren’t voting here, we’re caucusing. That’s something that parties decide.” He said it is “up to the national party and the state party to promulgate these rules and enforce them.”

In retrospect, I can’t help but wonder if, politically, the NSEA would have helped Clinton’s campaign more by simply remaining silent. Not only was the lawsuit a long shot, and not only did it cause unnecessary division, it actually created a stronger incentive for Obama backers to participate in the caucuses. Indeed, the Culinary Union said the suit was an attempt to disenfranchise its members. “Backers of Hillary Clinton are suing in court to take away our right to vote in the caucuses,” a union flier said.

On a related note, you may have heard that Bill Clinton got rather agitated yesterday responding to a reporter’s question about the legal dispute.

“You have asked the question in an accusatory way, so I will ask you back, do you really believe that all the Democrats understood that they had agreed to give everybody that voted at the casino a vote worth five times as much as people who voted in their own precinct?” Mr. Clinton said after an event on Wednesday in Oakland, Calif. “Did you know that? Their votes will be counted five times more powerfully, in terms of delegates to the state convention, compared to delegates to the national convention.” […]

“When you ask me that question, your position is that you think that the culinary workers vote should be easier for them to vote than anyone else in Nevada who has to work on Saturday. Second, when they do vote, their vote should count five times as much as everybody else? That’s what the teachers have questioned. If that’s your position, you have it.

Paul Waldman argues that this isn’t quite right.

As is often the case in the Rube Goldberg delegate allocation system used in caucuses, there is an absurdly complex formula to determine how many delegates each precinct receives. But the Las Vegas Sun crunched the numbers, and according to their calculation, if 10,000 people voted at the at-large precincts, they would make up around 6 percent of the total delegates for the state. Now, does that mean that the votes of those who vote there will count five times as much as anyone else’s? Only if you assume that statewide turnout will be so large the at-large precincts will only make up 1.2 percent of the vote (6 percent divided by 5). That would mean, under this scenario, that total turnout in the Democratic caucus would have to be 833,333.

Will turnout be that high? Well, no. As the Sun recently reported, “Democratic circles are abuzz with excitement about Nevada’s caucus, and people are starting to think that the state party’s early estimate – recently repeated by Sen. Harry Reid – of 100,000 people might just be possible.”

In order for the at-large precincts to be over-represented, the turnout there would have to be incredibly low, while turnout everywhere else in the state is incredibly high, and there is no reason to think that will happen. I don’t expect some local TV reporter to go toe-to-toe with Bill Clinton when he probably didn’t have all the information at his disposal anyway, but somebody should confront Clinton on why he keeps just making stuff up.

And isn’t it about time we did away with caucuses altogether? Is there any reason to do things this way? Might be something to add to the democracy agenda, after we fix our voting machines and amend the constitution to eliminate the electoral college.

Sounds good to me.

When a union endorses a candidate, that doesn’t mean that every single member of that union will vote for the endorsed candidate.

Relax people!

  • I think workers in LV should have to beat 5-1 odds on craps in order to vote.

    The Teacher’s Union must have known this move would have made the Culinary Union more represented when they voted on this in March. Too little too late.

  • Does anyone other than me think that Bill Clinton’s relentless campaigning – particularly to the point that it has gotten – belittles his legacy and the stature of former presidents somewhat? Should not ex-presidents be statesmen? I understand his desire for his wife to be elected given how positively it could be when history reflects on his own presidency, but is it not slightly pathetic for the former leader of the free world to be giving stump speeches and getting in the face of little-known reporters?

  • This must be a sign from a higher power – that a court ruled against motions to disenfranchise voters. This is like some cosmic undoing of the 2000 election.

    Agreed with Doug #4. Hillary Clinton would look like a much better candidate of Bill expended his energies on problems like Darfur or Kenya rather than being Hillary’s pit bull. Quit while you’re still ahead Bill.

  • Doug, I’ll add that it’s really depressing to see a former Democratic president publicly trying to belittle one of the most exciting new young talents the party has seen in a long while, someone who has really caught the public imagination. Support your wife, fine, but leave the negativity to your underlings. Sad, sad.

  • Doug,

    It’s just you. He’s not belittling anything and it most assuredly does not make him look pathetic.

  • That decision strikes me as pretty predictable — the courts have given nearly complete deference to the parties in how their internal nomination contests are run (see, e.g, the dismissal of the decision to take away Florida’s delegates).

    But interunion power struggles can get pretty nasty, logic and odds be damned.

  • Doug…

    You are right. Saw that video too.
    He is really starting to irk.
    Not just me, but lots of other people apparently too.
    Very arrogant manner for a confirmed womanizer.

    It is worth saying again:

    These people had their eight years.
    And if I recall correctly, Hillary had her shot at giving the country healthcare.
    It didn’t go too well.
    In fact… it was a total failure and energized the Wurlitzer to new heights.

    Nope, on the big stage I simply don’t give second chances:

    Kerry lost me after his loss in 04.
    Edwards lost me after Cheney made grits out of him in the debate.
    Gore lost me after he didn’t scream loud enough in 2000.
    Clinton lost me after I defended him vigorously, only to wake up one day to his lie…
    And Hillary?
    Think I am going to give her a second chance of getting healthcare through Congress?
    With the wrath that her and Bill inspire?

    Nope. No second chances. Not on the big stage at least.
    The republicans are down. Way down.
    This is no time to give second chances to proven losers.

  • Hillary should not be concerned. The union represents 60,000 dishwashers, cooks, cleaners etc. How many of these people do you think are even here legally, let alone, are actually going to vote?

  • Bill and Hill: both too old, much too “experienced” and much too much into the Rovian slime and smear tactics used by the Bush and Cheney gangsters for the last eight years. Please go away. go home, be it Little Rock or New York City

  • …but somebody should confront Clinton on why he keeps just making stuff up.

    Why start now? We’ve been giving him carte blanche for 15 years.

    The definition of “is”
    NAFTA will create jobs…
    The sanctity of marriage is important to me, let me pass this anti-gay-marriage bill to overcompensate…
    I didn’t inhale….

    Yah, sign me up for 8 more years of that claptrap.


    And isn’t it about time we did away with caucuses altogether? Is there any reason to do things this way?… after we fix our voting machines

    Ah, you answered your own question.
    I’m thinking of lobbying to get Maryland to caucus until those defective democratic slot machines get replaced or get printers attached.

  • Two terms of Bill Clinton resulted in the loss of Congress and two terms of GW Bush. That doesn’t make me real sanguine about the aftermath of another Clinton presidency.

  • BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

    (sorry, let me compose myself a second here…)

    snrk….BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

    Y’know Billy boy, was a time in the 90s when even among all the slung mud I really liked you.

    Now you and your wife actually look like what the deluded GOoPers always said you were.

    I sure hope Obama wins Nevada now.

  • Two terms of Bill Clinton resulted in . . . two terms of GW Bush.

    No, Al Gore’s foolish and totally unnecessary decision to run away from the Clinton-Gore record of unprecedented economic growth resulted in two terms of GW Bush.

    Had Gore simply used the kind of simple charts he uses in Inconvenient Truth comparing economic and crime statistics under GHWB and Clinton-Gore, and asked the cliched political question “We’re you better off under Bush or under Clinton-Gore?” it would never have been close enough for Florida to matter.

    (Not showing up at a debate in orange make-up might have helped, too.)

  • Doug,

    I couldn’t agree more. Lots of people are thinking it, and lots more are saying it.

    There is no ex-president less presidential than Bill Clinton. No dignity, no class, no statesmanship. He reminds me of the old “pig on a suit” sentiment. Even our most ineffective President of modern times, Carter, comports himself with much more dignity.

    Glad to see some sanity in these not-so-always-sane online venues.

  • Looks to me that a lot of posters have bought the bash Hillary barrage by the “media”.

  • The truth is that Bill Clinton was well on his way to “statesman” status before his wife’s presidential campaign began.

    His Foundation has done, and presumably continues to do, wonderful work. He’s lent his name and prestige to all manner of worthy causes. And even many of those who hated him in the ’90s had started to concede that the country generally did pretty well during his presidency.

    But now all we see is an angry, embittered old man who’s picking fights with too much relish and doing damage not only to his own reputation, but to his party. Should he support his wife? Of course. But someone made the point that in 2000, Poppy Bush supported W. without attacking McCain or any other Republican.

    I’m not generally one for extreme Party Loyalty, but I think a former president probably does owe it to his party to keep his enduring rage in check.

  • So—who wants to tell “adam” that Doug’s not alone on this one? Because as I see it, the “big dog” is turning into a spoiled little poodle who obviously wants to sleep in the WH again.

    Time to start turning out the lights on the Hillie-Willie show….

  • wlgriffi, it couldn’t possibly have anything to do with the entire Clinton campaign playing a collective game of “limbo” these days, could it?

    Trying to change the rules in the 11th hour just because a union decided not to endorse Her Hillaryness? The desperation truly has shown, like underarm sweat stains on a blue shirt.

  • Re: #18, I thought Bill was doing OK as an ex-president until this election. But he’s really stretched the truth on several occasions, and seems to be intent on making himself look bad to help HRC. Maybe he feels like he owes it to her to take one for the team, maybe to pay back some of the hurt he put on her in the 90’s. Or maybe they’re just politicians who will do what it takes to win, even against Dems. I don’t know.

    The fact that the Clintons only contested these caucus sites after the union endorsed Obama is all anyone should need to know. Bill, you’re full of shit, bud. Give it up before you spoil your legacy.

  • Paul Waldman said: somebody should confront Clinton on why he keeps just making stuff up.

    This is a nice, polite way of saying “…somebody should confront Clinton on why he’s such a liar.”

    I don’t know why you people keep resolutely wanting eight more years of this worthless asshole and his lies. Would one of you manage to tell me what the hell he accomplished that was so bloodty wonderful????

    He was a lying sack of razorback hog doo-doo in 1969 when he b.s.ed his draft board (which is why I didn’t want to vote for him in 1992), he lied to everyone’s face about “not inhaling,” he lied about his blowjobs in the oval office, he’s lied about everything every day of his life. He’s not “the man from Hope” – he’s “the boy from Hot Springs,” where he learned well from all the con artists you find there in the Arkansas “Las Vegas.”

    David Geffen – who’s been a lot more “up close and personal” with these two than anyone else here – said it all a year ago: “they lie with smiles on their faces.” Both Hill and Billary.

  • Cleaver, you keep suggesting that Clinton did not do anything, nothing for “real people,” which is frankly just asinine. Aside from undoing a boatload of Reagan/Bush damage, and having numerous other initiatives blocked by Gingrich after he duped the American people by putting a Contract On America, here is just a very, very partial list of some of the Clinton-Gore era accomplishments that would not have happened had a Bush, Dole or any other Repub been in office those 8 years (and which, sadly, have largely been reversed by W):

    * Between 1993-2000, real wages up 6.5 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

    * 15 million additional working families received additional tax relief because of the President’s expansion of the Earned Income Tax Credit. In 1999 alone, the EITC lifted 4.1 million people out of poverty

    * Under the Clinton-Gore Administration, federal funding for child care more than doubled, helping parents pay for the care of about 1.5 million children by 1998. From 1993-2000, the Clinton-Gore Administration increased funding for the Head Start program by 90 percent, and in FY 2000, the program served approximately 880,000 children – over 160,000 more children than in 1993.

    * AmeriCorps allowed 150,000 young people to serve in their communities while earning money for college or skills training.

    * President Clinton proposed and enacted the HOPE Scholarships and Lifetime Learning tax credits, which in 1999 were claimed by an estimated 10 million American families struggling to pay for college. The HOPE Scholarship helps make the first two years of college universally available by providing a tax credit of up to $1,500 for tuition and fees for the first two years of college. The Lifetime Learning Tax Credit provides a 20 percent tax credit on the first $5,000 of tuition and fees for students beyond the first two years of college, or taking classes part-time.

    * In 1999 crime fell for the eighth consecutive year nationwide. Violent crime rate fell 7 percent in 1999 and 27 percent between 1993-2000. From 1993-2000, the murder rate went down more than 25 percent to its lowest point since 1967, and gun violence declined by more than 35 percent.

    * Clinton enacted the Hate Crimes Sentencing Enhancement Act in 1994

    * Clinton signed into law the toughest child support crackdown in history. Federal and state child support programs broke new records in 1999, collecting nearly $16 billion — double the amount collected in 1992.

    * Expanded coverage and choice under Medicare: New preventive benefits passed include coverage of annual mammograms, coverage of screening tests for both colorectal and cervical cancer, and a diabetes self-management benefit.

    * The S-CHIP program we all enjoy bashing Bush for refusing to expand was started under Clinton.

    * To help eliminate discrimination against individuals with mental illnesses, the President signed into law mental health parity provisions that prohibit health plans from establishing separate lifetime and annual limits for mental health coverage.

    * President Clinton signed into law legislation that requires health plans to allow new mothers to remain in the hospital for at least 48 hours following most normal deliveries and 96 hours after a C-section.

    * The Clinton-Gore Administration implemented a new science-based inspection system — Hazard Analysis and Critical Control Points — and reduced the prevalence of salmonella in raw meat and poultry by as much as 50 percent. The President signed the Food Quality Protection Act, which included special safeguards for kids and strengthened laws governing pesticides and food safety. The Administration also issued new rules to prevent foodborne illness caused by pathogens such as E. coli. (The problem here is that post 1994 the “Contract On America” Congress gutted funding for implementation and enforcement).

    * The Clinton-Gore Administration completed clean up at more than 530 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as completed in the prior twelve years.

    * Signed Brady Bill, signed Family & Medical Leave Act

    * Appointed Ruth Ginsberg to the Supreme Court (and Breyer, but that isn’t quite as big of a deal)

    And there are hundreds more I could list. I know a lot of “real people” whose benefits from these accomplishments are very real, thank you. I’m not sure what world you live in, but even if this was the entire list, this is a seriously good record — I think Democrats are so self-loathing, so willing to internalize the right-wing hate, that they forget just how well Clinton did. And that doesn’t even include political victories like crushing Gingrich over the government shutdown. It also doesn’t include well known accomplishments like the additional 100,000 police officers on the street.

    Sure its fair game to prefer Obama over Hillary, but it is just a flat out slander to take away from the very real successes that our only Democratic president in 30 years had, and it does no Democrat any favors. We should be touting this record of what can happen with a Democrat in the White House. With friends like you the party doesn’t need enemies.

  • I keep saying this, and will continue to do so: we need a STATESMAN in the White House. Statesmanship requires tact, the ability to inspire, a willingness to talk even with your enemies and an ability to garner respect from people of all stripes. Do you really think that Hillary and Bill Clinton can do those things?

  • Does anyone other than me think that Bill Clinton’s relentless campaigning – particularly to the point that it has gotten – belittles his legacy and the stature of former presidents somewhat? Should not ex-presidents be statesmen? I understand his desire for his wife to be elected given how positively it could be when history reflects on his own presidency, but is it not slightly pathetic for the former leader of the free world to be giving stump speeches and getting in the face of little-known reporters?

    Amen to that. It’s freaking pathetic and breaking my heart to watch someone I once admired so much make such a selfish, boorish a$$ out of himself as his dream of a third term goes up in smoke. We need to retire these people. Their time is long past.

  • As an Obama supporter, I’m enjoying watching my man remain cool as a cucumber as the onetime party leader goes out in a blaze of self-righteous, self-entitled rage.

    Fired up! Ready to go!

  • “As an Obama supporter, I’m enjoying watching my man remain cool as a cucumber as the onetime party leader goes out in a blaze of self-righteous, self-entitled rage.”

    As a waffling Edwards/Obama supporter, I am really, really, really NOT ENJOYING watching this. It’s rather sickening.

    I’ve always liked Bill, despite his BS. Zeitgist’s list isn’t a fairy tale. But this process is starting to make me dislike him in a visceral way, and I don’t like this at all.

    It’s appalling that anyone would try to minimize participation in this process, while acknowledging that it is of course a pretty crappy system. I don’t discount some of the concerns, particularly that many of the workers may feel coerced to caucus the way their union wants them to. But despite the flaws, it’s far better for them to get to participate than not.

    If we’re gonna put so much weight on the state-by-state selection process (and we obviously are) we really have to get some sort of standardization so that the candidates are selected by VOTES.

  • Thanks for the list, zeitgeist. Lately, I’ve to scroll up and check the headings on half the progressive blogs to make sure I didn’t accidentally wander on to Red State. Trashing President Clinton’s excellent record does the Democratic Party great harm, whoever our eventual nominee turns out to be.

  • …. On January 17th, 2008 at 3:57 pm, Bob@#12 said:
    …The union represents 60,000 dishwashers, cooks, cleaners etc. How many of these people do you think are even here legally, let alone, are actually going to vote?…

    This comment just made me gasp! the inherent racism…just listen to yourself…it is these types of attitudes that prevents this country from moving forward…

  • CB: “In retrospect, I can’t help but wonder if, politically, the NSEA would have helped Clinton’s campaign more by simply remaining silent. Not only was the lawsuit a long shot, and not only did it cause unnecessary division, it actually created a stronger incentive for Obama backers to participate in the caucuses. Indeed, the Culinary Union said the suit was an attempt to disenfranchise its members. “Backers of Hillary Clinton are suing in court to take away our right to vote in the caucuses,” a union flier said.

    I don’t believe so. The suit was successful in drawing attention to the irregularities of the casino caucuses (a moniker CNN may have lifted from me), such as the lopsided representation for the culinary workers and the fact that similar arrangements were not made for shift workers in Reno hotels who are represented by a rival union — or for anyone else who works nights, for that matter. That may have been its primary purpose all along. It also served to make the culinary workers endorsement seem like a bigger deal than it may really be.

    So now, if Clinton should happen to win Nevada it will be a moral victory and a much bigger deal than it would have been otherwise in terms of expectations. If Obama wins it will seem a tainted victory with much less buzz value then he might have gotten from it, absent exposure of the culinary union’s sweetheart deal. So I kind of think it’s a win-win for Clinton. And the NSEA hasn’t even endorsed Clinton as far as I know, so even given that the timing of the suit is questionable despite its apparent merits, her hands are pretty clean in all this.

  • Something else to note: not only did this move make the casino workers hate Hillary for trying to disenfranchise them, there’s a good number of teachers grumbling that their union heads made their group look bad. Wonder how many teachers are gonna want to vote for Hillary now…

  • locagirl, @ 33,

    Actually… Nasty as the implications of Bob@12’s reasoning are… I wonder if that’s where Big Bill got his 5:1 ratio — which *presupposes* an extremely low turnout at those casino precincts — from. The reasoning may have gone like this:
    “60 thousand… at least half — maybe two-thirds — of them illegals; leaves 20K. Half of the legal ones bothered to register for voting; that’s 10K. 40% of those bother to show up for a caucus, that’s 4K all told… And they get 9 delegates????”

    At this point, getting a daily dose of Clinton-disenchantment, I wouldn’t put it past them, to think just like “Bob@12”

  • if a decision helps one candidate over another, as everyone agrees is the case here, that seems unfair to all the other candidates. And in a caucus, where one has to stand up and announce one’s candidate preference, and your union boss is standing in the corner watching, doesn’t this push “voters” toward the candidate that the union endorses? Bill Clinton’s point that the mini-caucuses weights the delegates more strongly in favor of the candidate chosen by those mini-caucuses, is also true, though perhaps not to the extent he indicated. Just because you want Obama to win, doesn’t mean the points raised by the other candidates are not valid. If if were your candidate that was at a disadvantage, wouldn’t you care?

  • “Big Dog Dementia.”

    When “Willie the Shill” was in the WH, he’d have fought tooth and nail to empower those culinary folks on the ‘Strip. The only real difference between then and now is that by empowering these productive, hard-working individuals, he risks putting someone other than himself inside the WH.

    That is the one and only difference between then and now—and another ex-president shows that he’s slowly losing his mind….

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